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Old 2010-07-29, 23:19   Link #2021
Mr. DJ
Schwing!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
Takashi was lucky he didn't knew about much guns.

So looking at the the craze guy's body mass, up close what gun can penetrate that amount of human fat?
...any kind that's capable of penetrating a human skull?
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Old 2010-07-29, 23:28   Link #2022
AcroDave
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Cue to pot-smoking punk. Causing grevious injury and leaving someone in the lurch to face certain death under saner circumstances, these would be capital crimes. But, given the apocalypse, it had become a matter of survival.
Actually, no. Takashi is pointing a gun at point-blank range. He could have demanded the guy drop the knife, let go of Rei, and get the hell out of there. Instead he decided to put a bullet in him. He decided to take the ruthless option.

(not saying I disagree with him, just that it wasn't the only choice he had)
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Old 2010-07-29, 23:33   Link #2023
kenjiharima
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I think we need the Myth Busters to take that police gun to the test.
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Old 2010-07-30, 00:06   Link #2024
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
No one in the team was a formal leader, but the kids didn't need one at the time. The fact that the students got to the bus in one piece was proof that their system worked. Perhaps the time will come when more assertive leadership is required, but that was not the case when the kids were still in school. That's because the objective was very simple: Get out of the building, alive.

In the future, however, individual team members may put forward competing objectives. Or, they may agree on the overall goals but disagree over the appropriate course of action. At that stage, they will need to appoint someone as the arbiter, someone who has final say. The leader doesn't have to be oldest, the strongest or the most intelligent. He just simply has to be the person whom everyone else respects, and is able to command obedience in return.

That is how all teams work, in real life and not just in anime.

Shidou, on the other hand, is simply being an opportunist. He insisted on a leader when circumstances didn't yet call for it. He practically forced his "leadership" upon the entire group, through the support of outside members who hadn't actively contributed to all of their survival. In effect, Shidou instigated a coup, and he got away with it.

All in all, pretty villainous and most certainly not praiseworthy. It's not surprising, therefore, that he is an obvious target of hatred, regardless of what history Rei appears to have with him.

Also in this context, while Shidou's actions appeared underhanded and opportunistic, the original team members could not find sufficient grounds to oppose him it had become a lot harder to denounce his actions for what they were, because all of them had "dirtied" their hands, one way or the another, to get that far (Takashi had "killed" his best friend, but he couldn't be certain that he was not acting out of jealousy; Saeko killed a human being with her bare hands, an act of mercy killing perhaps, but it was still killing all the same). Yet, if Shidou's "leadership" was supposed to provide unity and a clear sense of direction, I think he had already failed in that one simple regard. He's likely to face mutiny before long.
So you do agree that they need a leader, and I totally agree with your description on how a team should work. Shouldn't they settle the matter when it is calm and safe rather than zombie marching towards them?

When they are surrounded by zombies and opinion differs (even two good person can have different opinion), they should just keep arguing and let zombie devours them when they are arguing?

Again, what coup? A coup means the overthrow of existing leadership. Since there are no leadership in the first place, it is not a coup.

The main casts do not find sufficient grounds to oppose Shidou. That is my whole point about his hate is not warranted. I still fail to see how all of you justify the hate on him. (even the main cast cannot justify it)

Also, opportunistic implies Shidou gains advantage. What advantage has Shidou gain thus far? Again, maybe he will do something evil later on, but so far he hasn't.

Also, some of you say Shidou hasn't done much to deserve to be the leader. But just because you bash a couple skulls make you a leader? Remember the guy that is dead who the girlfriend go back to die (or zombified) with him? He is holding a bat too so he bat a couple skulls. So skull bashing appears offscreen as well and not only the main cast bash skulls. So leadership should change hands every time the skull bashing go up?

If none of the presidential/ prime minister candidate deserve to be leader, you would prefer no leader and anachy state?
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Old 2010-07-30, 00:24   Link #2025
justinstrife
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I have a feeling Fukarming and I are going to be in disagreement pretty much the entire series...
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Old 2010-07-30, 00:25   Link #2026
fukarming
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I have a feeling Fukarming and I are going to be in disagreement pretty much the entire series...
I agree. I don't think I can convince you and I don't think you can convince me. Maybe I should just take HOTD less serious and just enjoy the boobs and gore.
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Old 2010-07-30, 00:52   Link #2027
justinstrife
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I agree. I don't think I can convince you and I don't think you can convince me. Maybe I should just take HOTD less serious and just enjoy the boobs and gore.
I think we both need to take it less seriously and do as you say, enjoy the boobs and gore.
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Old 2010-07-30, 01:32   Link #2028
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post

Also, some of you say Shidou hasn't done much to deserve to be the leader. But just because you bash a couple skulls make you a leader? Remember the guy that is dead who the girlfriend go back to die (or zombified) with him? He is holding a bat too so he bat a couple skulls. So skull bashing appears offscreen as well and not only the main cast bash skulls. So leadership should change hands every time the skull bashing go up?

?
Takashi's eventual leadership have nothing to do with the fact that he bashed some zombie skull here and there. It have something to do with the fact that he have taken a few decisions for the group as whole. What he lacks, and that's a topic that will be brought up later on, is his own confidence in his leadership. In that regard, Takashi is similar to Rick from The Walking Dead, trying his best for the group and sometimes doubting if he have done it right.

But regarding the group right now, they have worked very well together without a designated leader. So why trying to fix what's not broken?

Quote:

That is my whole point about his hate is not warranted.
Because taking his sweet time to deliver a sneer speech and stomping a down guy on the face, when he could have helped him, should not be a reason for people to hate him?

What next? You are going to tell us that we should not have hated Patrick in Dead Set for being a smug bastard before Z Hour and clearly crossing the line when he pushed a guy on a wheelchair in the way of a zombie?
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Old 2010-07-30, 02:32   Link #2029
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Takashi's eventual leadership have nothing to do with the fact that he bashed some zombie skull here and there. It have something to do with the fact that he have taken a few decisions for the group as whole.
Wait. We don't know that Takashi will be the eventual leader. This is the anime, which, for all we know, may take a totally different route.

Spoiler for spoiler's sake:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
What he lacks, and that's a topic that will be brought up later on, is his own confidence in his leadership. In that regard, Takashi is similar to Rick from The Walking Dead, trying his best for the group and sometimes doubting if he have done it right.
In real life and in fiction, I find such supposed lack of "confidence" to be a sign of a potential leader. It's not really a lack of confidence to begin with. It's more a sign of someone who is fully self-aware of his limitations. Such a person is likely to gain and keep a team's respect, because he is typically less inclined to subject them to risks he knows he wouldn't take himself.

In that respect, Takashi has already acquitted himself remarkably in at least one instance — at the school building, where he volunteered to test Saya's theory about zombies detecting their prey by sound. He read the situation perfectly, understanding immediately that everyone else was reluctant to take the risk, including Saya, so he decided to take one for the team. He offered to bell the cat when no other mouse would. It's noticeable that Saeko regarded him with very high esteem after that. It was likely that had Takashi not stepped up, Saeko would have done so, and thus become the nominal "leader" of the group.

So again, a good leader is not necessarily, in my own experience, the strongest, swiftest or even the smartest person in a group. More often than not, he's the one who is best able to marshal all the resources available to him. That is a skill that anyone can learn, but few perfect.
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:16   Link #2030
quzqazqaz
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come on guys,stop hating shido
he's a good guy
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:28   Link #2031
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quzqazqaz View Post
come on guys,stop hating shido
he's a good guy
And you are able to indisputably confirm this because...?
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:32   Link #2032
quzqazqaz
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
And you are able to indisputably confirm this because...?
well,i don't see why you guys hate him.....
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:35   Link #2033
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quzqazqaz View Post
well,i don't see why you guys hate him.....
He sacrifices people and creates situations for his own selfish interests?
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:38   Link #2034
quzqazqaz
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
He sacrifices people and creates situations for his own selfish interests?
that makes me like him more
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Old 2010-07-30, 04:58   Link #2035
MeoTwister5
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Then we obviously have a rather huge difference in morals and ethics, which makes this discussion rather pointless.

Unless of course you honestly can't comprehend why we and most of society dislikes an opportunistic narcissist.
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Old 2010-07-30, 05:14   Link #2036
ZeKeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quzqazqaz View Post
that makes me like him more
it makes me love him decapitated even more. seriously.
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Old 2010-07-30, 05:17   Link #2037
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
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[QUOTE=TinyRedLeaf]
Quote:
Wait. We don't know that Takashi will be the eventual leader. This is the anime, which, for all we know, may take a totally different route.

Spoiler for spoiler's sake:

To be honest, I need to reread the manga a little bit.

Spoiler:


Quote:
In real life and in fiction, I find such supposed lack of "confidence" to be a sign of a potential leader. It's not really a lack of confidence to begin with. It's more a sign of someone who is fully self-aware of his limitations. Such a person is likely to gain and keep a team's respect, because he is typically less inclined to subject them to risks he knows he wouldn't take himself.
On that I agree. Perhaps, "lack of confidence" was the wrong term to define it, knowing my limits in english.


Quote:
In that respect, Takashi has already acquitted himself remarkably in at least one instance — at the school building, where he volunteered to test Saya's theory about zombies detecting their prey by sound. He read the situation perfectly, understanding immediately that everyone else was reluctant to take the risk, including Saya, so he decided to take one for the team. He offered to bell the cat when no other mouse would. It's noticeable that Saeko regarded him with very high esteem after that. It was likely that had Takashi not stepped up, Saeko would have done so, and thus become the nominal "leader" of the group.

So again, a good leader is not necessarily, in my own experience, the strongest, swiftest or even the smartest person in a group. More often than not, he's the one who is best able to marshal all the resources available to him. That is a skill that anyone can learn, but few perfect.
On that I agree again and that is the reason why, for me, Shidou's group is ill-fated. The groups that glues together the best are those that are the least fucked-up and where the "troops" trust and respect the leader. This is what we are seeing in Takashi's group.
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Old 2010-07-30, 06:17   Link #2038
quzqazqaz
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you guys just hate him because rei hates him,he made himself the leader and kicked a student and left him to die??
if your reason for hating him is the first one,then you are nothing but a brainless freak who just follow what others do
you cann't expect everyone in the world to like you,for sure there's someone whom you hate and cann't stand it doesn't mean he's bad
if your reason is the second one,he is the most qualified out of the group,who else is more qualified?
if your reason is the last one,it's survival of the fittest,if you injure yourself so easily how long can you last in such a world?your better off dead
whoa cool i got 2 -rep just for liking shido
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Old 2010-07-30, 06:31   Link #2039
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quzqazqaz View Post
if your reason for hating him is the first one,then you are nothing but a brainless freak who just follow what others do
Do you think we are freaking idiots or something? We are deducting that if Rei would rather die than follow him, he must have done something really bad to be distrusted and should not be trusted as consequence. And that is certainly not bad grades.

Oh, and thank you for insulting people's intelligence, if it is your way to get your point across, we appreciate that.


Quote:
if your reason is the second one,he is the most qualified out of the group,who else is more qualified?
Someone who acts with the group and for the group and is willing to put himself on the line for the group. Something Takashi have done and Shidou did not.


Quote:
if your reason is the last one,it's survival of the fittest,if you injure yourself so easily how long can you last in such a world?your better off dead
Yes, you are better off dead, IF YOU ARE ALONE! That was not that kid's case who could have counted on the solidarity of the group. Moreover, the gap between himself and the car was NOT that big. Survival of the fittest is a shitty excuse. If you follow it by the letter, only militaries should be fit to survive.
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Old 2010-07-30, 08:16   Link #2040
aohige
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Originally Posted by quzqazqaz View Post
well,i don't see why you guys hate him.....
Because he's a scumbag, and no matter how much you defend him, it's not going to change that fact.
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