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Old 2010-07-29, 05:20   Link #281
Von Himmel
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I'm glad that they decided to port this, whatever the reason is. My only concern is that the low probability of it being licenced
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Old 2010-07-29, 10:24   Link #282
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varion View Post
About the same, yeah.

Graces (Wii) - 200,000 Copies
Vesperia (360) - 204,000 Copies
Vesperia (PS3) - 350,000 Copies
Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk (Wii) - 210,000 Copies.

So all things considered Graces didn't do that great, and Vesperia PS3, despite being a port, trashed all the others. So this is, for once, a very smart move on Namco Bandai's part.
Your post just proves one point, tales fans are not tied to a specific console, i bet that ~200000 people who actually bought graces, TOV 360 and the main fraction of the PS3 version are the same people. So the fan base are loyal to the games rather than the consoles. The rest of the 350000 ps3 numbers, are just casual gamers who bought the game by chance and through futher marketing push. Beside i reckon more people have played graces than TOV ps3, the Wii is such an unsecure system and still open to piracy, why else is there a fan translation project going on?
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:48   Link #283
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Considering the chances of PS3 Graces getting localized is like 0.1% what made you think I was talking about America?
Because in the absence of region specification by the poster I assume it to be about the West where most of us live.
Quote:
Might have something to do with a port of Versperia selling a lot more than a brand new Tales game, even though that game was on a system that has twice the userbase.
Please refer back to my previous post where I said that the installed user base for the Xbox 360 is very small in Japan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varion
Graces (Wii) - 200,000 Copies
Vesperia (360) - 204,000 Copies
Vesperia (PS3) - 350,000 Copies
Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk (Wii) - 210,000 Copies.
All of these are weak numbers, even PS3 Vesperia's. Why do they even bother? Some people seem to forget that porting a game costs money as well, and it's even more expensive to port one from the Wii to one of the HD systems where they would have to make an effort to make the game look like it belongs on there.
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Old 2010-07-30, 02:36   Link #284
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli View Post
Are you being sarcastic?
Totally

Quote:
I'm only pointing out that the Wii game sold 200,000 copies, by logic won't it sell EVEN LESS on the PS3?
Ps3 versions of the same game generally outsell Wii versions. here's one of the latest examples.

03. / 00. [PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Challenge of the Blue Samurai (Konami) - 57.214 / NEW
06. / 00. [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Challenge of the Blue Samurai (Konami) - 21.118 / NEW
09. / 00. [PS2] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Challenge of the Blue Samurai (Konami) - 14.269 / NEW
15. / 00. [WII] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Challenge of the Blue Samurai (Konami) - 8.000 / NEW

Pretty sure the Basara 3 game on Ps3 outsold the Wii version as well, lol @ Capcom just going all the limitations on the game is the fault of the Wii.

Quote:
It's different for Vesperia because the 360 and PS3 user base is more divided. The 360 having a super weak install base (in Japan), I thought it was natural to port it to the PS3 and have it perform better. The Wii however is everywhere in Japan if you were interested enough to buy Tales of Graces, I don't see why you would buy it again on the PS3.
The Wii has not captured the hardcore Ps2 fanbase. As you can see from Winning Eleven which make no mistake is a popular franchise in Japan you still have more people buying the ps2 version than the Wii.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
Your post just proves one point, tales fans are not tied to a specific console, i bet that ~200000 people who actually bought graces, TOV 360 and the main fraction of the PS3 version are the same people. So the fan base are loyal to the games rather than the consoles. The rest of the 350000 ps3 numbers, are just casual gamers who bought the game by chance and through futher marketing push. Beside i reckon more people have played graces than TOV ps3, the Wii is such an unsecure system and still open to piracy, why else is there a fan translation project going on?
Delusional.

Lol @ the Wii having no people casually wanting to buy this game yet the ps3 fanbase somehow has 150,000 casuals out of nowhere.

And wow you went with piracy lol. Okay sure, every psx and ps2 game outsold the highest selling games on the n64 and gamecube because those systems where full of pirates!

Yay for talking out of your ass when confronted with facts, you'll probably get banned from neogaf for posting shit like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
Because in the absence of region specification by the poster I assume it to be about the West where most of us live.
Yes nevermind the fact that the Tales franchise is big in Japan and the games just got announced for Japan and that the dates are for Japan, lets just ignore that yeah? I mean what else could I be talking about? There's a limit to how much you have to be hand held through some conversations.

Quote:
All of these are weak numbers, even PS3 Vesperia's. Why do they even bother?
I guess they should cancel The Last Story because it's not going to sell much more than this.. Xenoblade seems like it topped out at around 150,000.

Quote:
Some people seem to forget that porting a game costs money as well, and it's even more expensive to port one from the Wii to one of the HD systems where they would have to make an effort to make the game look like it belongs on there.
Obviously it's not as expensive as you think since Namco are not only porting it, they're also adding lots of extra content to it. But yeah I'm sure Nintendo Fanboy #104414141 knows more than Namco about how much this is going to cost them

Last edited by Westlo; 2010-07-30 at 04:53.
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Old 2010-07-30, 09:32   Link #285
Sides
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Delusional.

Lol @ the Wii having no people casually wanting to buy this game yet the ps3 fanbase somehow has 150,000 casuals out of nowhere.

And wow you went with piracy lol. Okay sure, every psx and ps2 game outsold the highest selling games on the n64 and gamecube because those systems where full of pirates!

Yay for talking out of your ass when confronted with facts, you'll probably get banned from neogaf for posting shit like that.
Yep that is what i am saying and i stick to it. Unlike you, i accept that the casual audience is larger than it is and the most importatn bit is that, Casually gamers are unpredictable. That is why you see crap like just dance, or established titles like final fantasy can sell like hot cakes or a bag of crap. Fan base always guarantees you fix number of sales, which can grow or drop, but does not have the major impact as casual gamers have.
Comparing consumer of today with the past is just absurd, nowadays you got much more recreational alternatives promoted than in the past, gaming is just a small fraction. Meaning wii/ps3 games have to actually fight not only against the gaming industrie, but also other recreational activities.
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Old 2010-07-30, 14:04   Link #286
jonli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Totally
Well there's no need to be...
Sorry Westlo I'm not familiar with this side of the industry. But I tried to be as friendly as possible in the discussion even if my points were invalid. It's not very nice to be condescending...

But I thank you for explaining the benefits behind porting Graces over PS3. I didn't see it as anything positive until now. I guess in a business stand point, it'll earn them a fast buck without too much effort.
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Last edited by jonli; 2010-07-30 at 14:17.
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Old 2010-07-30, 15:33   Link #287
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo
Yes nevermind the fact that the Tales franchise is big in Japan and the games just got announced for Japan and that the dates are for Japan, lets just ignore that yeah? I mean what else could I be talking about?
This is an English message board. People here generally want to play English language games, and it's not like they never talk about Japanese games and wonder if they will be localised.
Quote:
I guess they should cancel The Last Story because it's not going to sell much more than this.. Xenoblade seems like it topped out at around 150,000.
You're missing the point, as those are original games, not ports.
Quote:
But yeah I'm sure Nintendo Fanboy #104414141 knows more than Namco about how much this is going to cost them
Please quit the holier-than-thou attitude. You're being quite rude and making a silly assumption based on a couple posts in a Nintendo Wii thread.
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Old 2010-07-30, 17:51   Link #288
Westlo
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Sides... you don't realize how silly it sounds to say

Tales fanbase = 200,000 people
150k extra sales for Vesperia Ps3 came from casuals.

Meaning the system with 10 million userbase has 0 casual fans interested in Tales while the system with 5 million somehow has 150,000 casual fans.

It's silly period, funny too when you have another guy arguing that every Ps3 owner has a Wii as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
This is an English message board. People here generally want to play English language games, and it's not like they never talk about Japanese games and wonder if they will be localised.
It's amazing out of a 10 page neogaf thread not a single full of comments about Namco finally finding the userbase not a single person thought people were talking about the western world. The only person on any forum talking about this to think that is yourself. Might have something to do with a port for a game that will never get released here but nah couldn't be.

Quote:
You're missing the point, as those are original games, not ports.
You do realize what I was responding to was you saying something about the sales for the last 4 tales games, 3 of which were original.

Quote:
Please quit the holier-than-thou attitude. You're being quite rude and making a silly assumption based on a couple posts in a Nintendo Wii thread.
pot meet kettle.

Last edited by Westlo; 2010-07-30 at 18:01.
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Old 2010-07-30, 19:13   Link #289
jonli
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I just checked the sales for No More Heroes port on the PS3 and 360.

Since I feel like it is a pretty good example of a popular Wii exclusive porting itself over to the other systems to gain more sales. It is a more accurate representation of this scenario instead of Winning Eleven and Sengoku Basara 3.

Wii - 38,943
PS3 - 28,084
360 - 21,837

Although it sold more on the Wii, the PS3/360 is not that far behind. This pattern is what I originally imagined to happen to Tales of Graces F sales, which was why I said it would perform weaker on the PS3. But it seems like the cost spent to port Graces is probably a lot less than the money they could earn from the PS3 fanbase making this worth their time.

I'd also like to point out that the examples you mentioned in your earlier post, Weslto, aren't exactly fair cases to prove your point. Sengoku Basara 3 and Winning Eleven were both released together. They were not ports, not to mention that Winning Eleven is not an identical port. The Wii version was missing HD and other game features (like customizable button interface), but have old school mechanics like 360 dribbling...makes the game quite different (old school fans prefer the Wii apparently). When you provide both products on the market on the same day and one is obviously prettier, the PS3 version (HD, current gen) is bound to do a lot better because it attracts more attention. Both Sengoku Basara 3 and Winning Eleven were released on the same date instead of being ported after a certain period of time. I think this makes a really big difference to your argument. First of all the product is no longer fresh, and the initial momentum already disappeared. Second of all this is actually a Wii port not a game developed on both systems and released at the same time. Being developed together and being ported later, really makes a big difference.

I think my initial point is that being a port might not actually change the quality of Tales of Graces and make it worse, but I believe the mentality is quite similar to getting "sloppy seconds" as well as "half-assed-products" (360 port to PS3 is different however because of how both systems can infact achieve similar quality and the same button layout). This mentality would probably turn-off some players from buying the game. I hope I made my points a lot clearer and less retarded this time.

EDIT: Sorry I took too long editing and you posted already. But I just did a little more background check and added it in the post.
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Last edited by jonli; 2010-07-30 at 20:00.
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Old 2010-07-30, 19:35   Link #290
Westlo
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You're comparing a niche game to a game from the third biggest jrp series in Japan.... not to mention that the Ps3 is becoming the console jrpg system in Japan... FFXIII Versus, FFIV, Disgaea 4, Ninokuni, Graces Port, New Tales game, Atelier Rorona 2 etc...

Don't worry, I'll up this thread when the first week of Graces Ps3 outsells the LTD of the Wii version... WKC2 ffs sells 200,000 first week...
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Old 2010-07-30, 19:53   Link #291
jonli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You're comparing a niche game to a game from the third biggest jrp series in Japan.... not to mention that the Ps3 is becoming the console jrpg system in Japan... FFXIII Versus, FFIV, Disgaea 4, Ninokuni, Graces Port, New Tales game, Atelier Rorona 2 etc...

Don't worry, I'll up this thread when the first week of Graces Ps3 outsells the LTD of the Wii version... WKC2 ffs sells 200,000 first week...
Sorry I edited my post for too long, but you already posted. (please look at my updates, I think my points are not ill-founded)

I don't see why you would deny my examples, and then name something like WKC2 which is a highly anticipated PS3 exclusive (your previous examples are not very well founded either)...the scenario is completely different. Tales of Graces is a Wii port...WKC2 is a PS3 exclusive...the history of both games are different.

I'm not saying that Bandai Namco's business actions are completely unwise. I feel like developing an exclusive Tales for the PS3 is on the right step (I never said that they should develop another crappy Wii game like you claimed me to think in your first post towards me, but I guess you were just joking). Like you said, that IS where the RPG fanbase is. After what you pointed out in your earlier posts, I also feel like porting Tales of Graces might actually do enough good on the PS3 that it'll benefit them financially.

I'm not denying your points Westlo, like you are belittling everyone against Bamco's decision here. I originally intended this to be an honest discussion not an argument.
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Old 2010-07-30, 20:05   Link #292
frubam
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Piracy cut into the sales big time. The game was leaked even before it came out, like SMG2, not to mention the big highly anticipated FFXIII coming out in the same week. I believe the Tales fanbase who CAN'T pirate it will be the ones to attribute to the purchase of ToGf.
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Old 2010-07-31, 06:22   Link #293
ZODDGUTS
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Piracy didn't cut into sales for Grace just like it didn't cut to sales for ToS2, both games underpreform in Japan. The Tales series just happens to sale better on Sony platforms because that's where there main fanbase is. Even with the huge privacy on the PSP the PSP Tales games outsold the DS Tales games that have come out so far. It seems like Namco finally realized this and that's why Two PS3 Tales games are coming out and two games on the PSP.

Good news since now I can import the games. Namco doesn't seem interested in bringing Tales games anymore to the West. -_-
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Old 2010-07-31, 06:46   Link #294
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You do realize what I was responding to was you saying something about the sales for the last 4 tales games, 3 of which were original.
My point was that the PS3 port of Vesperia's sales number was not significant enough to warrant the effort.
Quote:
pot meet kettle.
I'm not belittling anyone who challenges my point of view, nor am I calling anyone who defends the port a PS3 fanboy.
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Last edited by Benoit; 2010-08-01 at 07:15.
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Old 2010-07-31, 11:59   Link #295
Arbitres
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Quote:
pot meet kettle.
Westlo meet clue stick. *whack*

Quote:
I'm not belitting anyone who challenges my point of view, nor am I calling anyone who defends the port a PS3 fanboy.
You may not be belittling him, but he is definitely belittling you. Oi! You gonna take that?!


Seriously Westlo, don't be condescending. :|

Quote:
Namco doesn't seem interested in bringing Tales games anymore to the West. -_-
The West? I don't think they ever cared, when it's beneficial for them they license and sell the game. That's about it.

Oh well... I just hope the fanbase here in the US wise up and realize their devotion to Bamco is one-sided.
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Old 2010-07-31, 12:51   Link #296
asaqe
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The SCEA is also really tough on ports. You need at 30% more original content from the first game to be considered to be allowed to port a game over here. The NIS CEO said it himself. If SCEA says no, Namco can't bring their games over here. Still, screw Bamco...
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Old 2010-07-31, 14:18   Link #297
stpehen
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
**** YES!! Now I can just get Tales of Graces on the PS3 and not have to worry about Wii mod chips and that other crap.
this is EXACTLY what I just said to myself. hell yeah! thank you again for making PS3 region free Sony.
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Old 2010-07-31, 16:24   Link #298
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZODD View Post
Piracy didn't cut into sales for Grace just like it didn't cut to sales for ToS2, both games underpreform in Japan. The Tales series just happens to sale better on Sony platforms because that's where there main fanbase is. Even with the huge privacy on the PSP the PSP Tales games outsold the DS Tales games that have come out so far. It seems like Namco finally realized this and that's why Two PS3 Tales games are coming out and two games on the PSP
You underestimate the effect that piracy has on sales. Had this been 2006, then I could agree it would have little to no effect, but now? I'm sure they lose quite a bit of sales to piracy. if 10,000 people were to pirate the game, that's 5% of total sales. Given how easy it is to mod a system right now, you think it has no effect? I just can't believe that, especially considering that the iso was leaked before the game came out AND it was free. For a Tales fan, just the opportunity to play it sooner would provoke you to not buy it and just burn it, but for FREE as well? Clearly quite the number of ppl could have taken this option. as far as saying 2 Tales game are coming out, its only obvious, since one is a port and the other, while new, also makes sense considering the wii and x360 had their own versions(originally).
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Old 2010-07-31, 20:40   Link #299
HayashiTakara
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I like how some are throwing in some obscure titles to make it look like games that are cross platform sell better in other systems outside the wii. When they don't bring out massive titles like Guitar hero 5

Wii: 1.06 million
XBOX: 840k
PS3: 690k

And has been consistent with other GH titles with minor exceptions where the sales are virtually identical.

Can't think of any other titles considering that very few games actually are cross platformed between the Wii and the other two that are worth mentioning considering they're vastly different systems.

Well anyway, they're just doing what they did with Tales of Symphonia made the initial sales on Gamecube and then port it to PS2 to bumper the sales. In any case if Graces doesn't make it to the states T_T for the wii, it'll never make it here on the PS3. Unless of course they'll wait to sometime late next year and release both at the same time in the states.
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Old 2010-07-31, 20:57   Link #300
Angelic Cross
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Originally Posted by jonli View Post
Like you said, that IS where the RPG fanbase is.
No they aren't. The RPG fanbase are on the DS and PSP.
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