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Old 2010-08-06, 23:30   Link #221
KholdStare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
That was basis of my challenge: J-Saimoe and ISML should be treated in same fashion with Best Moe Tournament as far as wikipedia is concerned. The fact that they claimed J-Saimoe and ISML popular and relevant while arguing Best Moe is not, makes me rather suspicious of intent of some of the people asking or agreeing with removal of Best Moe Tournament entry.
I thought that as far as Wikipedia is concerned, both ISML and KBM are not saimoe. The ones who manage the Saimoe article won't even let mentions of ISML and KBM be on there.
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Old 2010-08-06, 23:35   Link #222
imbehindyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I thought that as far as Wikipedia is concerned, both ISML and KBM are not saimoe. The ones who manage the Saimoe article won't even let mentions of ISML and KBM be on there.
but this is Korean wiki we're talking about...
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Old 2010-08-06, 23:55   Link #223
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Oh...what the Korean wiki denies that KBM is not saimoe? Why?
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Old 2010-08-07, 00:08   Link #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Oh...what the Korean wiki denies that KBM is not saimoe? Why?
I don't think they're denying it; on Korean wiki BMT, J-Saimoe, and ISML all have separate articles. The issue is that they (wiki users) want to get rid of BMT page claiming that BMT is, I guess, not wiki-worth entry or not "popular" enough while saying that J-Saimoe and ISML pages are okay to stay on wiki (not really sure about that part but this one user says BMT is not "popular" but J-Saimoe/ISML are "popular"). They mention "notability" and "merit" issues but considering it's Korean wiki, to Koreans, BMT is way more "notable" and "popular" and has more "merit" than J-Saimoe or ISML, IMO.

Also they mention verification/source issues but they didn't make it clear enough for me.


edit: and wontaek did his part on English page!


Anyway, back to the real BMT discussion:

I hope international support increases so that we get more variety. International support usually seem to be more male votes than female votes so it would be a nice balance to a slight female dominance we're having right now.
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Old 2010-08-07, 00:10   Link #225
wontaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I thought that as far as Wikipedia is concerned, both ISML and KBM are not saimoe. The ones who manage the Saimoe article won't even let mentions of ISML and KBM be on there.
I checked the record for that. If you look at the history, someone from Japan, came in and deleted just the Best Moe Tournament from the links.

Best Moe tournament(korean) is Saimoe??

http://moet.anizone.net/index.php?lang=eng "Best Moe Tournament is popularity vote for animation characters"
Animation Characters?? Saimoe Tournament is ANIME(Japanese Animation) Characters only, (60.39.37.26 (talk) 01:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC))


(cur | prev) 01:39, 14 August 2008 60.39.37.26 (talk) (7,608 bytes) (not Saimoe) (undo)

http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/60.39.37.26

Then Buspar came in and got rid of everything else

11:19, 14 September 2008 Buspar (talk | contribs) (7,593 bytes) (Remove links to events that lack their own Wiki page)

After this happened, following discussion occurred .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:An...moe_Tournament

Other moe tournaments?

What about including other Moe tournaments as well now we have a standalone article, even be it only "Derivates of SaiMoe" part on the bottom.
From my head I can name Best Moe (Korean), International SaiMoe (US, taking winners of other SaiMoe and adding some nominees) and SeiMoe (Touhou only Moe contest).
It's a pity that some of these have disappeared from moe (slang) page without appearing elsewhere, mainly because this is a quick way to find out who won in recent years. Wolfii-nya (talk) 19:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
We can pretty much add Korean Best Moe in - as well as ISML. Difficult to attain the Korean one however due to lack of available records. If you can get a hand on those, that'll be nice. KyuuA4 (talk) 19:48, 30 May 2009 (UTC) Alright. Perhaps, this article can expand to include all the other "notable" moe tournaments. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 04:15, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is what I concluded.

No one said Best Moe Tournament or ISML cannot have its own Wiki article. At the strongest, they claimed mention of these does not belong to Anime Saimoe Tournament Article.


My recommendation : Someone should make ISML and Best Moe Tournament Wiki Article in English. If someone says such articles should be deleted, then ask why should Anime Saimoe Tournament article be allowed to exist and not ISML or Best Moe. In my view, they should all be treated under same standard, thus either they all go, or they all stay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imbehindyou View Post
I don't think they're denying it; on Korean wiki BMT, J-Saimoe, and ISML all have separate articles. The issue is that they (wiki users) want to get rid of BMT page claiming that BMT is, I guess, not wiki-worth entry or not "popular" enough while saying that J-Saimoe and ISML pages are okay to stay on wiki. They mention "notability" and "merit" issues but considering it's Korean wiki, BMT is way more "notable" and "popular" and has more "merit" than J-Saimoe or ISML, IMO.

Also they mention verification/source issues but they didn't make it clear enough for me.


Anyway, back to the real BMT discussion:

I hope international support increases so that we get more variety. International support usually seem to be more male votes than female votes so it would be a nice balance to a slight female dominance we're having right now.
Anizone is partly to blame for lack of verification source issue as much data was lost and never restored during the 2 anizone renewals. There are numerous places where old records have been kept, starting with ISML Statistic Portal : http://www.internationalsaimoe.com/statistics/

If they wanted Korean Records , just a few google search would have landed them at following page.

http://moeyoso.egloos.com/category/%EC%B5%9C%EB%AA%A8%ED%86%A0%20%EA%B8%B0%EB%A1%9D%2 006~07

if they bothered to check the English, all match records for Female division after 2006 is preserved right here at AnimeSuki. 2006 record is also preserved in ISML website, although it relies on the moeyoso.egloos.com as the source, but different source also exist to confirm most of the later round results.

http://www.animenano.com/forum/Anime...larity+contest


Finally, I like to add that supporting Anime Saimoe which practices closure to the rest of the world while disapproving ISML and Best moe which practices global openness goes against the founding ideas of Wikipedia.
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Last edited by wontaek; 2010-08-07 at 13:42. Reason: Removed inappropriate comments
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Old 2010-08-07, 00:33   Link #226
imbehindyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Spoiler for too long:
I would assume that they want to have the actual source from Anizone. But then, if they only wanted the actual result announced from Anizone as their source, who would know that the result might not be accurate, if supposedly Anizone lost all the data from previous tournaments and just decided to take information from one random blog and announce it as official result? Anyway I really don't care if the Korean wiki article about BMT stays as long as they provide equal treatment to all three moe tournament/league articles.
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Old 2010-08-07, 01:23   Link #227
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Spoiler for Prelims 2 04-06:
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Old 2010-08-07, 03:22   Link #228
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Hey, maglor and I spent a lot of time hunting and translating the KBM 2006/2007 results because we wanted them to be recorded somewhere. wontaek should say what he said here on those wiki pages.

So basically from what wontaek found out, I came to 2 conclusions.
1) KBM was deleted (from the English wiki page for Saimoe) because "animation characters" are not clarified as "Japanese animation characters." If Anizone clarifies that, then there would not be a problem.
2) KBM and ISML were further removed for not having their own wiki pages. If we do create those pages, then there shouldn't be a problem.

Can we do it?

Once again, KyuuA4 points to KBM's records. We can try linking to ISML's reverse bracket for KBM and see from there. Like imbehindyou said, sooner or later Anizone should try to put the earlier KBM results on their site, but that's low priority just for a wiki page, or so it seems~
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Old 2010-08-07, 06:17   Link #229
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna..._Saimoe_League
Now let's see who tries to get in an edit war with me. I agree about each Saimoe having its own Wiki article, it'll help to popularize the spinoffs.
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Old 2010-08-07, 07:13   Link #230
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It is proposed that this article be deleted because of the following concern:

Unreferenced, notability not established.

If you can address this concern by improving, copyediting, sourcing, renaming or merging the page, please edit this page and do so. You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason. However please explain why you object to the deletion, either in your edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, it should not be replaced. Please do not add the {{hangon}} tag to challenge a proposed deletion unless the article has also been nominated for speedy deletion.PROD

The article may be deleted if this message remains in place for seven days.Expired+%5B%5BWP%3APROD%7CPROD%5D%5D%2C+conce rn+was%3A+Unreferenced%2C+notability+not+establish ed. This template was added 2010-08-07 11:43; seven days from then is 2010-08-14 11:43.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article so that it is acceptable according to the deletion policy.
Author(s) notification template: {{substrodwarning|International Saimoe League|concern = Unreferenced, notability not established.}} ~~~~
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Old 2010-08-07, 09:11   Link #231
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Well I'll try not to get involved too much with the wiki war stuff, but I wish you good luck success in creating and holding a wiki entry.

As for KBM, WHAT THE HELL GROUP 6 !?!?
4: Kikiyo, Will of the Abyss
5: Rin Kokonoe, Eva Kitty McDonell
6: Horo, Beato (Airi ;_; Chisame ;_; Liselotte ;_; Also in this group are Omari, Yachiyo and some random DRR cameo character (Miria))
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:27   Link #232
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Group 7- lolfang Tsuruya, and kyon imouto
Group 8- Ritsu, yui-nyan
Group 9- Siesta 410 and THE KoroMOE
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:36   Link #233
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Yeah, Holo won her group!!!

However, she needs greater support among the female voters if she has any chances of moving on into the later rounds!
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:37   Link #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komari View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna..._Saimoe_League
Now let's see who tries to get in an edit war with me. I agree about each Saimoe having its own Wiki article, it'll help to popularize the spinoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974 View Post
It is proposed that this article be deleted because of the following concern:

Unreferenced, notability not established.

If you can address this concern by improving, copyediting, sourcing, renaming or merging the page, please edit this page and do so. You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason. However please explain why you object to the deletion, either in your edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, it should not be replaced. Please do not add the {{hangon}} tag to challenge a proposed deletion unless the article has also been nominated for speedy deletion.PROD

The article may be deleted if this message remains in place for seven days.Expired+%5B%5BWP%3APROD%7CPROD%5D%5D%2C+conce rn+was%3A+Unreferenced%2C+notability+not+establish ed. This template was added 2010-08-07 11:43; seven days from then is 2010-08-14 11:43.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article so that it is acceptable according to the deletion policy.
Author(s) notification template: {{substrodwarning|International Saimoe League|concern = Unreferenced, notability not established.}} ~~~~
Basically, we need to flesh up the article in the first place. As for notability, my challenge is same : Why should Anime Saimoe Tournament Article be allowed to exist, and not ISML? How can you claim Anime Saimoe Tournament to be more important compared to ISML when ISML is attracting about 10 times as much voters right now? They all should go, or they all should exist. If Saimoe can get
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:An...moe_Tournament
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
These labels, Best Moe and ISML articles should get the same rating.
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:42   Link #235
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Today's result

Spoiler for Group 4 - 6:
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:46   Link #236
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Today's Groups
Spoiler for group 7 - 9:
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:47   Link #237
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fucking hell monkey balls shit. I knew I would rage....Minatsu 3rd? ....w/e

Today's voting was HARD!!!

Nodoka/Asakura
Yui/Ritsu
Nozomi/Ange
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Old 2010-08-07, 10:55   Link #238
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No surprise with Yui and Holo winning. Minatsu made it in, but not too crazy about her ending up in third.

Almost no one of interest in group 7, but Group 8..... 4 favorites and they don't include K-ON. I'm also worried about group 9.

Spoiler for My choices:
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Old 2010-08-07, 11:15   Link #239
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KBM IS MAKING ME DESPAIR

7: HONYAAAAAAAA, Lucifer
8: Yui + Yui
9: Ange + Koromoe, NOT AMUSED about Ryou, Yami, Chachazero, Nozomi being in the same group ;_;

Oh maglor tell me one thing: KBM votes are 3 groups a day. If I check the results it lists them with 4 groups at once which makes it annoying to check. Surely you have a good reason for this !?!?!?!?
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Old 2010-08-07, 12:31   Link #240
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Yui, Minatsu, Yachiyo, Holo and Himeji advance! Yes!
Oh, how glad I am to see Karisawa Erika get 4th... still not guaranteed to advance, but that's a good showing for her.

Okay, on to today's matches...
Spoiler for Prelims 2 07-09:
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