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Old 2004-09-21, 13:42   Link #41
Animizzle
Cool as a Cucumber
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Holland
I think I get why people are gettings confused

As Hunter and me are talking about
-Mangekyou Sharingan
-the jutsu's the MS can perform

You and some other are talking about
-Mangekyou Sharingan
-the jutsu's the MS can perform
-Hypnotism

Fact of the matter is, When Itachi attacked Kakashi there was no hypnotism as a pre-requisite or anything like that.

The Tsukiyomi creates the illusion, in other words he hypnotizes him
Hypnotizes in this context is just an metafor for casting the illusion.

Kakashi Hypnotized Zabuza, that's something different from the MS.

So forget about that and stick to the now original explanation of the Mangekyou Sharingan:

~The Mangekyou Sharingan
Is the true bloodline Limit of the Uchiha clan, It enables the user to perform Doujutu's not possible with a regular Sharingan.
When in the mangekyou state the user can perform Jutsu's as for example the Illusionary Tsukiyomi


I hope im right
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Old 2004-09-21, 15:13   Link #42
VMLM3
I had a good idea once...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
I think I get why people are gettings confused

As Hunter and me are talking about
-Mangekyou Sharingan
-the jutsu's the MS can perform

You and some other are talking about
-Mangekyou Sharingan
-the jutsu's the MS can perform
-Hypnotism

Fact of the matter is, When Itachi attacked Kakashi there was no hypnotism as a pre-requisite or anything like that.

The Tsukiyomi creates the illusion, in other words he hypnotizes him
Hypnotizes in this context is just an metafor for casting the illusion.

Kakashi Hypnotized Zabuza, that's something different from the MS.

So forget about that and stick to the now original explanation of the Mangekyou Sharingan:

~The Mangekyou Sharingan
Is the true bloodline Limit of the Uchiha clan, It enables the user to perform Doujutu's not possible with a regular Sharingan.
When in the mangekyou state the user can perform Jutsu's as for example the Illusionary Tsukiyomi


I hope im right
I think we're finally getting close to seeing eye to eye on this one,
you're right, part of executing tsukiyumi is hypnotizing the other person, but both hypnotizing and doing the rest of technique are accomplished through the mangekyou sharingan!! In other words the reason why Itachi can perform tsukiyomi is that the mangekyou has greater hypnotical abilities than the sharingan!!
edit: what I mean by saying that the sharingan is the one doing the hypnotizing is that Tsukiyomi itself can't hypnotize anybody because it isn't a thing.. Tsukiyomi is just a name for something the Mangekyou can do, so the hypnotizing, creating the illusion, whatever is all done by the Mangekyou in a technique called Tsukiyomi
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Old 2004-09-21, 18:30   Link #43
Tautou
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
No Itachi used it against Kakashi and against Sasuke both in the past and the present.

The difference is that the manga never showed the eyes at this point but merely the sound effect of a change in Itachi's eyes whereas the anime team made the mistake to show them.


No, as the Sharingan doesn't hypnotize but allows to cast Genjutsu against the opponent.
Once again the Tsukiyomi is the Genjutsu, ie it's the illusion technique.
And the Mangekyou is the bloodline limit allowing to use such jutsu.


They're completely different things, it's like to say that chakra and jutsu are the same thing because you need one to do the other.

You can use the Mangekyo Sharingan and do another jutsu than the Tsukiyomi, the Amaterasu for example or something else.

And it's the same thing for the Sharingan, Kakashi used his Sharingan to cast a Genjutsu against Zabuza, that doesn't mean that the Sharingan and the Genjutsu are the same thing, just that the Genjutsu can be used thanks to the Sharingan.
I don't understand the basis of your point, or your point at all. Tsukiyomi is a jutsu done through the Mangekyo Sharingan, period. The basis of Tsukiyomi is the Mangekyo Sharingan.

"No, as the Sharingan doesn't hypnotize but allows to cast Genjutsu against the opponent."

That's an incorrect statement. It is the Sharingan that casts the genjutsu, through the will of the user. I'm hoping that I'm not understanding what you're trying to say... That you're saying something so obvious that I'm simply forced to assume you're trying to make a point.
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Old 2004-09-21, 20:06   Link #44
Hunter
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*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
I think we're finally getting close to seeing eye to eye on this one,
you're right, part of executing tsukiyumi is hypnotizing the other person, but both hypnotizing and doing the rest of technique are accomplished through the mangekyou sharingan!! In other words the reason why Itachi can perform tsukiyomi is that the mangekyou has greater hypnotical abilities than the sharingan!!
edit: what I mean by saying that the sharingan is the one doing the hypnotizing is that Tsukiyomi itself can't hypnotize anybody because it isn't a thing.. Tsukiyomi is just a name for something the Mangekyou can do, so the hypnotizing, creating the illusion, whatever is all done by the Mangekyou in a technique called Tsukiyomi
VMLM3 it's like saying that the Rasengan isn't a thing, just a name for something a ninja can do.

Or even simplier it's like to say that a hand and a blow are the same thing because a blow is done with a hand.
And well no it's not
The Tsukiyomi is a jutsu which has a precise function which can be done with the Mangekyou Sharingan, that's all.

Let's take another example.
Spoiler:


It's the same with the Mangekyou, this state of the Sharingan allows to use a new set of jutsu such as the Tsukiyomi and the Amaterasu.
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Old 2004-09-21, 22:11   Link #45
VMLM3
I had a good idea once...
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 29
ok I agree with your last post Hunter, infact I agree with the explanation you and Animizzle are giving, so if no one minds I'll step out of this one and not speak so much about the sharingan again.
Or atleast until next week.
...pointless post but just thought I'd say that.
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