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Old 2010-08-11, 15:59   Link #21
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
SNK made fighting games, sure. But they did classics that are still played and appreciated today, King of Fighters 98, Samurai Shodown 2, The Last Blade 2 or Fatal Fury 4: Mark of the Wolves.
Not saying fighting games are bad. Just because it's unoriginal and rehashed doesn't mean it's boring. "Tried-and-true" does go a long way, after all.

But 2D fighters are hardly innovative... the most innovative 2D fighter I've played in years was Scarlet Weather Rhapsody...
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:10   Link #22
Arbitres
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If a formula has shown marvelous success, developers choose that route because it's safest and surest. Them losing profit by being daring is more likely then not.

What? You really think Tales of series and Final Fantasy isn't a product of that? xD Teh.

They are just recycling and stagnating the gaming industries with old formulas. I think the most change is the graphics, honestly.

Disregard this since it's probably absurd. xD
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:21   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Remember when blizzard was stomping the game industry with ground breaking games with innovative play styles? Now blizzard made a partnership with activision in order to maximize profits. They are not creating new games, all they are doing now is playing it safe and milking their past glories to the last penny by creating continuations.
I agree with you about the investor comfort statement. I personally don't like the stock market at all since it lets people who have no idea what they're doing have a voice, which is more often bad than good.

Blizzard, though, I may have to disagree. Whether any of their games were "ground-breaking" at all is debatable, and as far as I'm concerned their innovation ended with the release of WoW, not with Activision.

Bioware, on the other hand, is more innovative, no idea how long that lasts with EA owning them now.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:23   Link #24
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Gaming has gone down the drain since the X-Box came out. PS-2 used to have all the best games, and gamecube had quite a few marvelous titles when it first came out (Then preceded to sit there and rot)...

I really blame xbox for this downward spiral of a mess of FPS games. That's all that comes out these days. And while I do like to play things like COD4 MW, it is extremely annoying when that seems to be the only thing out there.

I guess you could also blame the PC gaming industry's recent failures on Blizzard destroying the market with their MMORPG monster known as WOW, but I think it is just an emphasis on the wrong type of games being developed.

And as everyone else has pretty much stated... Investors like to see what they know will work."

Gaming was better off as a niche hobby. Screw the casual gamers. The massive influx of FPS's, the abomination known as the Wii, the PS3's lack of creative games compared to its previous generations, and the XBOX can all be attributed to them ruining current gaming.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:26   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Gaming has gone down the drain since the X-Box came out. PS-2 used to have all the best games, and gamecube had quite a few marvelous titles when it first came out (Then preceded to sit there and rot)...

I really blame xbox for this downward spiral of a mess of FPS games. That's all that comes out these days. And while I do like to play things like COD4 MW, it is extremely annoying when that seems to be the only thing out there.

I guess you could also blame the PC gaming industry's recent failures on Blizzard destroying the market with their MMORPG monster known as WOW, but I think it is just an emphasis on the wrong type of games being developed.

And as everyone else has pretty much stated... Investors like to see what they know will work."

Gaming was better off as a niche hobby. Screw the casual gamers. The massive influx of FPS's, the abomination known as the Wii, the PS3's lack of creative games compared to its previous generations, and the XBOX can all be attributed to them ruining current gaming.
This deserves a 10/10 in my books, you just explained everything that ruined what used to be a very enjoying gaming experience for me.

Since the people from WoW do not want to give up all the money they spent on it and the life-time they spent on it as well, no other MMORPG can match it in player-base and that just leaves all the other MMORPG that the other companies make worthless since their is not enough support going around with people hanging on to WoW.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:45   Link #26
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I mostly agree with you, especially about FPS's and the X-box (though I did own a 360 for a while, mostly used it for streaming media then sold it). However I do love my Wii just because of the classic game feature. I don't even touch new games when I have every game from every old school console at my fingertips. Though IMO the best console to date is definitely the Super Nintendo, just so many quality games despite the primitive technology (by today's standards). Interesting that you play DoTa and have most of the same views, something about DoTa might appeal to retro gamers.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:50   Link #27
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It's not that WoW killed other MMORPGs, it's that for a while it was killing all PC gaming, and for two reasons:

1) Blizzard was not making new PC gamers, it was making new WoW gamers. People who would never even buy a discrete GPU if WoW didn't exist. People who bought gaming PCs just to play WoW. I know because I built a bunch of low-end gaming computers for people who wanted to play WoW. I never understood why Blizzard didn't just port it to the 360 like Square-Enix did with FFXI.

2) WoW's anomalous mainstream success caused a huge number of game developers to drop or put promising single-player projects on hold in order to make the next "WoW Killer." None of these mainstream-oriented MMORPGs ever killed WoW. Most of them are gone now. Some have been relegated to free-to-play status (D&D Online anyone?) The only one that really achieved any modicum of mainstream success was Guild Wars, which absolutely did not follow WoW's model.

(Note that this doesn't apply to more niche-oriented MMORPGs such as Eve Online and Final Fantasy XI, both of which are still going strong, albeit with small playerbases).

Fortunately for us, the fad has worn off. The afterglow is starting to fade, especially as WoW's graphics engine continues to look even more ancient. Fortunately for Blizzard, The Old Republic doesn't really wow in terms of visuals, but Final Fantasy XIV's use of the Crystal Tools engine (same engine used in Final Fantasy XIII) stomps all over WoW in terms of graphics.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:52   Link #28
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Gaming has gone down the drain since the X-Box came out. PS-2 used to have all the best games, and gamecube had quite a few marvelous titles when it first came out (Then preceded to sit there and rot)...

I really blame xbox for this downward spiral of a mess of FPS games. That's all that comes out these days. And while I do like to play things like COD4 MW, it is extremely annoying when that seems to be the only thing out there.

I guess you could also blame the PC gaming industry's recent failures on Blizzard destroying the market with their MMORPG monster known as WOW, but I think it is just an emphasis on the wrong type of games being developed.

And as everyone else has pretty much stated... Investors like to see what they know will work."

Gaming was better off as a niche hobby. Screw the casual gamers. The massive influx of FPS's, the abomination known as the Wii, the PS3's lack of creative games compared to its previous generations, and the XBOX can all be attributed to them ruining current gaming.
And of course, it's not true at all.

Firstly, I now it's incredible but there is not only FPS game in XBox 360. There are, for ecxample, many RPG (RoF, ToV, Fable, Alpha Protocol, FF13, So4, etc...). XBox 360 is a great console with great games.

The Wii is of course not an abomination but a great success and one of the most original console ever made. You have alos great and various game in it such as Nintendo's game (Mario, Zelda etc...) and game such as King Story, Rune Factory Frontier, Monster Hunter Tri, Endless Ocean, Dead Space Extinction etc...

Futhermore, we can say this generation is the best in term of creativity thanks to the Wiiware, XLA and PSN.

In conclsuion, what you're saying is totally false. It's a great era for video games and I can't wait for the new DS.
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Old 2010-08-11, 16:58   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
2) WoW's anomalous mainstream success caused a huge number of game developers to drop or put promising single-player projects on hold in order to make the next "WoW Killer." None of these mainstream-oriented MMORPGs ever killed WoW. Most of them are gone now. Some have been relegated to free-to-play status (D&D Online anyone?) The only one that really achieved any modicum of mainstream success was Guild Wars, which absolutely did not follow WoW's model.
Guild Wars 2 seems to be capable enough of stomping out many WoW Players with the things that I'm currently seeing in it.

Quote:
Fortunately for us, the fad has worn off. The afterglow is starting to fade, especially as WoW's graphics engine continues to look even more ancient. Fortunately for Blizzard, The Old Republic doesn't really wow in terms of visuals, but Final Fantasy XIV's use of the Crystal Tools engine (same engine used in Final Fantasy XIII) stomps all over WoW in terms of graphics.
The Old Republic MMORPG seems to be only MMORPG that I see that can best WoW in many terms of stature that it is displaying in its trailers, on its website and many things. Blizzard is trying to make its graphics not look ancient anymore and trying to keep players playing after levels 1-10 (since it was the case that many people quit after reaching that level due to boring questing) But I would say its just a desperate attempt for Blizzard to keep WoW going and streaming the money players spend on it.
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:06   Link #30
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Interesting that you play DoTa and have most of the same views, something about DoTa might appeal to retro gamers.
Hah. maybe.

I did play WoW until the first expansion came out (Burning Crusade), but I became very disasisfied with the game after awhile since of course you have to pay every month for a game that really isn't evolving too much.

I was also very upset with how Blizzard pretty destroyed the lore of WC, which I did enjoy at first...

But at least SC2 seems to be an improvement on SC1, but then again, they aren't making anything new, and the continuations on their franchises are slow as hell (I don't even want to think when Diablo III is coming out).

It's kind of sad when the most innovative thing in production that has come out of Blizzard and its games since WoW first came out is a continually updated custom map (DOTA) from WC3 made by fans and unfortunately DOTA is a dying game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
And of course, it's not true at all.

Firstly, I now it's incredible but there is not only FPS game in XBox 360. There are, for ecxample, many RPG (RoF, ToV, Fable, Alpha Protocol, FF13, So4, etc...). XBox 360 is a great console with great games.

The Wii is of course not an abomination but a great success and one of the most original console ever made. You have alos great and various game in it such as Nintendo's game (Mario, Zelda etc...) and game such as King Story, Rune Factory Frontier, Monster Hunter Tri, Endless Ocean, Dead Space Extinction etc...

Futhermore, we can say this generation is the best in term of creativity thanks to the Wiiware, XLA and PSN.

In conclsuion, what you're saying is totally false. It's a great era for video games and I can't wait for the new DS.
It's my opinion as that is yours.

I'm not going to even talk about the XBOX... But I must say.

The Wii is a pos that caters to the everyman so you can show your drinking buds a few fun laughs as they swing around your controller at your TV. It does nothing for true lovers of games (Of course my opinion, but this is something I find that I share with most gamers in opinion). Nintendo used to be innovative back in the day until they decided they wanted to exit stage left off the true gamers market sometime in Gamecube's half life.
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:09   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
And of course, it's not true at all.

Firstly, I now it's incredible but there is not only FPS game in XBox 360. There are, for ecxample, many RPG (RoF, ToV, Fable, Alpha Protocol, FF13, So4, etc...). XBox 360 is a great console with great games.

The Wii is of course not an abomination but a great success and one of the most original console ever made. You have alos great and various game in it such as Nintendo's game (Mario, Zelda etc...) and game such as King Story, Rune Factory Frontier, Monster Hunter Tri, Endless Ocean, Dead Space Extinction etc...

Futhermore, we can say this generation is the best in term of creativity thanks to the Wiiware, XLA and PSN.

In conclsuion, what you're saying is totally false. It's a great era for video games and I can't wait for the new DS.
I will have to disagree, while the 360 and PS3 does have great games most of them are the samey CoD type shooters that have flooded the console gaming industry, then they try to mess with CoD's formula to try and create their own sense of innovation that fails.

JRPGs have fallen in a very stereotypical bunch of cliches told in a different way, while it can be told in a visually stunning and different way most of them fall under the same tropes. WRPGs are now taking BioWare and Bethseda's formula's for success and creating lots of choice RPGs with shooter elements.

However we are only half way through this year and maybe like last years end half we will see new good games but I doubt it.

The only place you can actually see innovation apart from big developers is XBLA.

Wii, I find is that for the most part only the games Nintendo makes themselves are actually good, which are just same versions of their old games dressed up all pretty with a new accessory (motion controls).

But we're not going to stop playing games so that the industry will change its bad habit and the industry isn't going to blow millions away on maybe games so we're stuck in a singularity that until it becomes cheaper to make gmaes we're going to getting dressed up versions of the same games.

I have a good idea for a game where 4 fairytales are retold (Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, Jack and the Beanstalk and Pinnochio), in a gritty way with cartoon graphics (similar to Psychonauts). Each with different play styles, Hansel and Gretel is a Bioshock/Alan Wake-esque atmospheric shooter RPG, with a co-op option where the player can play as either Hansel or Gretel in single or have both being controlled in Co-op. It will need teamwork to survive through the forest to get to the candy house and when you do it turns out that the house is a hallucinogen that takes to confront their personal demons, during their slumber the witch is plotting to sell you on the black market as slaves. In this part of the game you go inside the psyches of Hansel and Gretel as they confront their faults and problems, in the shape of bosses, this part you play individually but in co-op you can give items that are no use to you to your partner to help them.

That is just one part of my idea, Little Red Riding Hood would be a action-adventure hack and slash, Jack would be a 2-D Prince of Persia-esque platformer and Pinnochio would be a choice rpg with adventure elements. Would investors risk their cash in an idea like this? Probably not
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:19   Link #32
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post

The Wii is a pos that caters to the everyman so you can show your drinking buds a few fun laughs as they swing around your controller at your TV. It does nothing for true lovers of games (Of course my opinion, but this is something I find that I share with most gamers in opinion) Nintendo used to be innovative back in the day until they decided they wanted to exit stage left off the true gamers market sometime in Gamecube's half life.
Again it's not true. You're caricaturing the Wii and I don't like that at all. There are many great games in Wii and there are many old player (like me ) who really like the Wii.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama
I will have to disagree, while the 360 and PS3 does have great games most of them are the samey CoD type shooters that have flooded the console gaming industry, then they try to mess with CoD's formula to try and create their own sense of innovation that fails.
I don't agree and even if it's true, what's the problem if you have enough of other game ?
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:24   Link #33
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
I have a good idea for a game where 4 fairytales are retold (Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, Jack and the Beanstalk and Pinnochio), in a gritty way with cartoon graphics (similar to Psychonauts). Each with different play styles, Hansel and Gretel is a Bioshock/Alan Wake-esque atmospheric shooter RPG, with a co-op option where the player can play as either Hansel or Gretel in single or have both being controlled in Co-op. It will need teamwork to survive through the forest to get to the candy house and when you do it turns out that the house is a hallucinogen that takes to confront their personal demons, during their slumber the witch is plotting to sell you on the black market as slaves. In this part of the game you go inside the psyches of Hansel and Gretel as they confront their faults and problems, in the shape of bosses, this part you play individually but in co-op you can give items that are no use to you to your partner to help them.

That is just one part of my idea, Little Red Riding Hood would be a action-adventure hack and slash, Jack would be a Prince of Persia-esque platformer and Pinnochio would be a choice rpg with adventure elements. Would investors risk their cash in an idea like this? Probably not
on a percent it would be 95% that inventors would not cash on the idea, but it is does seem like a good idea
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:27   Link #34
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
It's not that WoW killed other MMORPGs, it's that for a while it was killing all PC gaming, and for two reasons:


.

As a PC gamer, I am just very picky about my choices, I want my purchase to COUNT. So no, screw you editors, you ain't gonna have a single euro for churning out yet another BROWN FPS, I prefer a good Deus EX, System Shock 2 or a Penumbra (also, I am waiting for Amnesia: the Dark Descent.)

RTS? I have planning skills that would make Stalin cry manly tears and the reaction speed of Slowpoke. I personally prefer a Commandos anyway.
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:28   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Again it's not true. You're caricaturing the Wii and I don't like that at all. There are many great games in Wii and there are many old player (like me ) who really like the Wii.
Again, that is your opinion just like my mine. You may not agree, but don't assert your opinion as fact, as I never did myself.

Out of curiosity sake though, which systems have you owned and played?
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:36   Link #36
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Again, that is your opinion just like my mine. You may not agree, but don't assert your opinion as fact, as I never did myself.

Out of curiosity sake though, which systems have you owned and played?
Played : all since Nes

Owned : Nes, Megadrive, GB color, GB avdance, DS, DS Lite, N64, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox360. 18 years of gaming.
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:44   Link #37
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Apparently memories get covered in gold dust the more time passes

Or have you forgotten every DOOM clone that came out for PC gaming?
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:47   Link #38
Sheba
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Originally Posted by NightbatŪ View Post
Apparently memories get covered in gold dust the more time passes

Or have you forgotten every DOOM clone that came out for PC gaming?
Or how the 16bits console era was oversaturated with Street Fighter clones AND platformers.
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Old 2010-08-11, 17:58   Link #39
Kaze
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Originally Posted by NightbatŪ View Post
Or have you forgotten every DOOM clone that came out for PC gaming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Or how the 16bits console era was oversaturated with Street Fighter clones AND platformers.
Don't forget all the wolfenstein ripoffs
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Old 2010-08-11, 18:34   Link #40
Jaden
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I don't think the limitations of consoles are hurting game development. The only hindrance is the players, who are generally pretty bad consumers. It's acceptable for games to cost tons on release, have a couple days' worth of content, and especially on the consoles poor support and archaic multiplayer. It's not even a matter of innovation, refinement is what is lacking in most cases.

...The market has expanded so there's always the group of gamers who let these kinds of mediocre releases go platinum. I'm not talking about Blizzard though. Their games have always been polished, kept people engaged for years and created huge, lasting communities around them. They deserve that popularity because their competitors are lacking that refinement.
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