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Old 2010-07-21, 00:23   Link #1001
azul120
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Milly doesn't seem like the Broken Bird type. Not quite enough emotional turmoil, even though she's felt trapped.
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Old 2010-07-21, 02:36   Link #1002
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Uh, romantic development for Milly? She got it. If you guys remember, Milly's romantic plot thread concluded with quite some finality with the failure of her butthat plan in Turn 12.

That's all Milly's feelings ever were. She gave up before she even started. She hid behind pranks and lies and the illusions of friendship to avoid ever having to express her feelings, or pursue them. In the end she gave up. It might even have been a good thing. Milly as a character embodied the same 'wounded bird in a cage' archetype as C.C., insofar as her limited development actually extended. She felt trapped by her heritage and circumstances like they were some kind of fate in the same way that C.C. percieved herself as bound by the curse of Geass. Her attraction to Lelouch would have been nothing more than the projection that he could somehow save her from it. Milly's feelings for Lelouch were never about Lelouch himself. They only reflected a possibility of freedom that she thought he represented--a dream that she wished would just magically come true. However, in the end what Milly did was grasp freedom herself. She broke off her political marriage with Lloyd and became a newscaster of her own accord, via her own power. She never needed Lelouch; she had it all along, and that is why her complete lack of romance with Lelouch is the correct answer: Milly had never loved Lelouch for himself, so it was only proper that she gave him up for someone who actually did. Given this actual development, I can hardly see why such a minor relationship for this series actually has shippers. Milly's romantic development within the show had more to do with a contrast with her 'this was set up by her parents' marriage with Lloyd than any actual feelings for Lelouch, and that obviously constitutes as complete a story as the creators ever intended for her. As far as romance goes, C.C. covers the same damn archetype (except there might have been some actual truth to the idea that Lelouch was the only one who could save her for that one), whereas Shirley's significance to the Ashford plot elements was obviously far more meaningful, so anybody complaining about the way Lelouch's Ashford connections finished up with Shirley just gets a complete blank from me.


This is just an opinion of mine. In Code Geass R2, Lelouch's focus was his relationship with Shirley as far as the Ashford scenes were concerned. I agree that his interactions with Milly was almost non-existant. Why was that? It might have been the result of a creative descision restricting the use of Milly's interactions with Lelouch because she might have taken too much attention away from Shirley. This is why there is rarely anything related to Milly Ashford, as far as figurines and fan services are concerned. The focus was geared towards Shirley because the producers were trying to recreate the Suzaku x Euphemia tragedy of Season One by building up the characters for a very big fall over the cliff.

For example, in Turn 12: Love Attack, why did Lelouch asked Villetta to take his hat instead of Milly if he wanted to avoid Shirley? That did not make any sense to me at all. In addition, why did Lelouch agreed to go on those scheduled dates with the 108 girls at Ashford Academy that Sayoko arranged(as Lelouch's double in disquise) when he should have cancelled all of them? Why was it clearly obvious that Milly never interacted with Lelouch directly in a private setting? And why didn't we see a plot twist involving Milly x Lelouch? It seemed that the entire episode was about getting Shirley x Lelouch together.

The separation of Milly x Lelouch was intentional to give Shirley the opportunity to be with Lelouch. At the end of the episode, Shirley's memories were suddenly restored to where it was before Lelouch geassed her in Season One. And those emotions foretold an unhappy ending, as well as the beginning of the end for Lelouch's stay at Ashford Academy.
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Old 2010-07-21, 06:55   Link #1003
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On the Ashford family as a whole, Lelouch didn't seem to believe that they were acting as friends of his mother so much as going to use him and Nunally as some form of insurance. For what isn't specidfied, but it is mentioned in the season one Picture Drama Stage 23.95 (it's on Youtube).
In fact, Lelouch was very bothered by this, and it was indeed Milly who managed to win his trust by putting her body on the line. When they meet for the first time in Stage 0.911, he lashes out at her and tells her that he will not attend Ashford Academy, but once Milly encounters Nunnally and catches on, she decides to take things into her own hands.

I don't agree that Milly didn't love Lelouch for the person he was - at the end of 0.911, she comments on Lelouch's "annoying pompous attitude" and kindness towards his sister that haven't changed at all. Shen then continues with, "Which is why..." but then breaks off and says that she noticed him blushing when he thanked her.
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Old 2010-07-21, 14:33   Link #1004
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I don't agree that Milly didn't love Lelouch for the person he was - at the end of 0.911, she comments on Lelouch's "annoying pompous attitude" and kindness towards his sister that haven't changed at all. Shen then continues with, "Which is why..." but then breaks off and says that she noticed him blushing when he thanked her.
Indeed, in the real world, such a claim that Milly was projecting some ideal onto Lelouch might have merit, but in a fictional setting her feelings should be assumed to be genuine until the story and/or Word of God explicitly state otherwise. Otherwise the arguement could extend to both Shirley and Kallen that they were loving some idea of Lelouch rather than the genuine person, as both girls had development that only gave them a full understanding of Lelouch when it was too late.

My belief with Milly's feelings was more that she did love Lelouch for who he was, but that she knew that both their respective circumstances prevented any chance of them getting together. This was partly why she seemed to try to set Lelouch and Shirley up together as it was a sort attempt to move past Lelouch, as seeing him happy with another girl would allow her to move on herself, in addition to her general concerns for the two of them as friends and desire to see others happy. Further this lead me to believe that her occasional teasing of Shirley was partly a subconcious act of jealousy.
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Old 2010-07-21, 16:23   Link #1005
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Indeed, in the real world, such a claim that Milly was projecting some ideal onto Lelouch might have merit, but in a fictional setting her feelings should be assumed to be genuine until the story and/or Word of God explicitly state otherwise. Otherwise the arguement could extend to both Shirley and Kallen that they were loving some idea of Lelouch rather than the genuine person, as both girls had development that only gave them a full understanding of Lelouch when it was too late.

My belief with Milly's feelings was more that she did love Lelouch for who he was, but that she knew that both their respective circumstances prevented any chance of them getting together. This was partly why she seemed to try to set Lelouch and Shirley up together as it was a sort attempt to move past Lelouch, as seeing him happy with another girl would allow her to move on herself, in addition to her general concerns for the two of them as friends and desire to see others happy. Further this lead me to believe that her occasional teasing of Shirley was partly a subconcious act of jealousy.
*nods in agreement* Aside from that, I rather like the thesis from the light novels. In those, Milly felt that since she had enjoyed the benefits of being part of the Ashford family all her life, she should also be willing to take responsibility eventually, detesting novels about young rich women who just run off the moment things stop going their way. Of course, that's not canon, and she did ruin most of her engagements, but since most nobles seem to be complete bastards and she didn't make much of an effort to scare off Lloyd, I believe it's a possibility.
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Old 2010-07-22, 02:03   Link #1006
darthfury78
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Originally Posted by Betteroffer View Post
Indeed, in the real world, such a claim that Milly was projecting some ideal onto Lelouch might have merit, but in a fictional setting her feelings should be assumed to be genuine until the story and/or Word of God explicitly state otherwise. Otherwise the arguement could extend to both Shirley and Kallen that they were loving some idea of Lelouch rather than the genuine person, as both girls had development that only gave them a full understanding of Lelouch when it was too late.

My belief with Milly's feelings was more that she did love Lelouch for who he was, but that she knew that both their respective circumstances prevented any chance of them getting together. This was partly why she seemed to try to set Lelouch and Shirley up together as it was a sort attempt to move past Lelouch, as seeing him happy with another girl would allow her to move on herself, in addition to her general concerns for the two of them as friends and desire to see others happy. Further this lead me to believe that her occasional teasing of Shirley was partly a subconcious act of jealousy.
And this was why the relationship between Shirley x Lelouch mirrowed that of Suzaku x Euphemia: Tragedy over the loss of a loved one. Especially when Shirley got her original memories restored. When she died, Lelouch was devastated beyond belief. It is quite strange that he never went to Shirley's funeral to pay his respects as he did when her father died. I guess if he had went, Milly might have comfort him emotionally through this difficult moment.

I wonder if Cecile ever got the chance to comfort Suzaku after the death of Euphemia? Perhaps not, since he was promoted to the Knight of the Rounds and never went back to Lloyd's Research & Development Division of the Britannian Army. The respected loss of Euphemia and Shirley, as well as the absense of emotional comfort by(Milly x Lelouch) and (Cecile x Suzaku) might have made Lelouch x Suzaku commit to the Zero Requiem as an attonement towards fullfilling their respected love partner's dream of creating a better world for everyone.

Last edited by darthfury78; 2010-07-22 at 02:14.
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Old 2010-07-24, 00:10   Link #1007
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Originally Posted by Nogitsune View Post
*nods in agreement* Aside from that, I rather like the thesis from the light novels. In those, Milly felt that since she had enjoyed the benefits of being part of the Ashford family all her life, she should also be willing to take responsibility eventually, detesting novels about young rich women who just run off the moment things stop going their way. Of course, that's not canon, and she did ruin most of her engagements, but since most nobles seem to be complete bastards and she didn't make much of an effort to scare off Lloyd, I believe it's a possibility.
Milly gave up to soon she should have tried to teach Lloyd to love. That would have been the greatest outcome.

Who needs science with Milly around
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Old 2010-07-24, 09:57   Link #1008
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Milly gave up to soon she should have tried to teach Lloyd to love. That would have been the greatest outcome.

Who needs science with Milly around
I don't know, Lloyd seemed a lot like an aromantic asexual to me (wasn't there even a scene where it was said that he wasn't attracted to the opposite sex?), though it would certainly be fun seeing him with Cecile or Milly.
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Old 2010-07-25, 03:24   Link #1009
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*nods in agreement* Aside from that, I rather like the thesis from the light novels. In those, Milly felt that since she had enjoyed the benefits of being part of the Ashford family all her life, she should also be willing to take responsibility eventually, detesting novels about young rich women who just run off the moment things stop going their way. Of course, that's not canon, and she did ruin most of her engagements, but since most nobles seem to be complete bastards and she didn't make much of an effort to scare off Lloyd, I believe it's a possibility.
Hmm, I actually like that idea as well, but I don't think it's how she was in canon. The main reason she didn't do much to scare off Lloyd was that he basically agreed to marriage a few seconds into their first meeting, leaving her no real chance to sabotage things. Even if she had tried, Lloyd was likely just too eccentric to be affected by much, and he was focused on getting the Ganymede more than anything else.

As for her overall mindset, I think this was effectively implied by Nina's outburst in China and Milly's subsequent self-evaluation. Nina accused Milly of being one of the many "fake" people in the world (i.e. everyone who wasn't Euphemia) and that she always hid behind her status as an Ashford. Milly then reevaluated herself and began "living for herself as herself" by cancelling her engagement to Lloyd and becoming a newscaster.

Had the novel's idea been accurate, Milly would likely have countered Nina's accusations by explaining herself as above and that her being with Lloyd was her denying herself the chance to be with the person she really loved and was basically her paying a debt she beleived she had been incurring since her birth. At the very least I have to think she would have gone about things differently afterwards.

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Milly gave up to soon she should have tried to teach Lloyd to love. That would have been the greatest outcome.

Who needs science with Milly around
They could always play Hide the Pudding: Extra Saucy Edition or make giant pudding or flan constructs at Ashford.
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Old 2010-07-25, 03:32   Link #1010
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They could always play Hide the Pudding: Extra Saucy Edition or make giant pudding or flan constructs at Ashford.
Why would pudding have sauce in it? I can see Milly and Lloyd coming to agreement about flan constructs at Ashford, however. It gives a reason for Lloyd to die in sheer joy and for Milly to throw some ridiculous festival about it.

Ridiculous festival =/= best thing besides seeing Guren vs Lancelot fights.
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Old 2010-07-25, 03:41   Link #1011
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Why would pudding have sauce in it? I can see Milly and Lloyd coming to agreement about flan constructs at Ashford, however. It gives a reason for Lloyd to die in sheer joy and for Milly to throw some ridiculous festival about it.
"Saucy" is in regards to where Milly hides the pudding on her person (and I do mean on her person *bow chicka wow wow* and so forth)

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Ridiculous festival =/= best thing besides seeing Guren vs Lancelot fights.
Knightmare jello wrestling: great idea, or the greatest idea (ever)?

Tohdoh's Zangetsu could be used, just to have an opportunity for hair pulli- oh God, what have I become?!

...

To try and salvage some seriousness, I think that if Milly had gotten more development in R2 it would have been in regards to her engagement and more as a means of further devloping Lloyd and Cecile as characters, as opposed to it being with Lelouch.
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Old 2010-07-25, 03:47   Link #1012
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"Saucy" is in regards to where Milly hides the pudding on her person (and I do mean on her person *bow chicka wow wow* and so forth)
Oh. Oooohhh... I get it now.

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Knightmare jello wrestling: great idea, or the greatest idea (ever)?
They'd have to be normal, though. Guren would just melt the jello. Lancelot would blast and cut through it like nothing. Put two Burai/Glasgow in there. Lloyd would still die in sheer joy, I can almost see him making a KMF for the sole purpose of jello wrestling.

/offtopic.
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Old 2010-08-15, 10:29   Link #1013
darthfury78
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The one moment that I would have love to have seen was Milly figuring out that Lelouch was Zero in Code Geass R2, Turn 12. I wanted see Lelouch's reaction towards Milly's revelation of that fact. How would Lelouch had handled that situation? To geass or not to geass Milly to protect his secret. That is the question.
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Old 2010-08-15, 13:03   Link #1014
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Besides the necro of this thread (Which I don't approve, but it's not that much of a necro as it's 1 month)

I laughed my ass off because of the thread title, when I read the opening post, the creator was already banned.
I mean, how do you pull that off?
That's like shooting yourself in the face with a spraycan!


Anyways

I am pro LelouchxC.C.

However, I respect every other person's view on the matter, as I am not that hardcore in what I believe and have no intention of insulting anyone.
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Old 2010-08-15, 23:49   Link #1015
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You sir/madam are aparently in the majority of Code Geass fans with the Lelouch x CC pairing.

I'm a Lelouch x Harem, in case you're wondering (although I think that Shirlulu is the most logical since they're both dead, C's World/Heaven together).
Nevertheless, I'll not poop on anyone's parade.
You like Lelouch x CC, then more power too yah!
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Old 2010-08-16, 00:03   Link #1016
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^ Actually, the most popular would be Suzaku x Lelouch. Which is kind of odd actually, because the gay pairing is normally popular, sure, but there's more Suzaku x Lelouch stuff than L x K and L x C.C. combined.

Though they were pretty gay for each other. Anyone else notice that every other time Lelouch is on the computer he's googling Suzaku? That's pretty damn shippy.

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However, I respect every other person's view on the matter, as I am not that hardcore in what I believe and have no intention of insulting anyone.
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Nevertheless, I'll not poop on anyone's parade.
You like Lelouch x CC, then more power too yah!
More people should have this attitude. Going on and on about a pairing you love? Go ahead, have fun! It's when people start insulting other pairings that things go bad.

La~ I ship everything, apart from about three exceptions. But my way of dealing with pairings I don't like is, generally, to ignore them.
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Old 2010-08-16, 00:08   Link #1017
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I stand corrected!

Suzaku x Lelouch is probably the MOST popular.
I was thinking in terms of NewType Romance's 2009 "Most popular pairings of the Decade" in which Lelouch x CC made the top 5 (I can't remember whether it was them or Kira Yamato x Lacus Klein that was number 1).
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Old 2010-08-16, 00:13   Link #1018
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With anything like this, I think it depends where you look. I was thinking in terms of fanfiction/art and online communities etc., of which there's loads.

But, I guess if you were to go with the more casual fans like that, it'd be probably be C.C. or Kallen ; ) So in a way we're both right.
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Old 2010-08-16, 00:38   Link #1019
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Well no matter who he's paired with one thing is an absolute certainty.
Lelouch is...

Spoiler for you know what's coming. ;):
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Old 2010-08-16, 00:54   Link #1020
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I'm known for my bizarre shipping. The only one I don't consider bizarre though? Rai x Karen.

Spoiler for just a tad... rant.:
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