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Old 2010-08-16, 09:41   Link #101
Almazluverdis3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digdri View Post
I'm not try to justify any Fantasy perspective or whatever but just meant to address how the metaphoric implication from all thats attributed to Siestas killing is hardly consistent at all and most of it doesn't suggest shotguns were used in EP3 or at least not in the way the tales wants us to believe their murder were commited.

There IS another interpretation that at least fits to EP3 I thought of once but its a bit far fetched:
Siestas are just meant to contrast to the Stakes and how the murderers behave.

Siestas are calculating, efficient and professional even someway "emotionless" in their work.
Stakes take everything very personal with her connections to sins, are sometimes really amateurish or clumsy and not nearly as powerful. Besides they can get in danger and killed and fight some duels while Siestas are always overpowering enemies or fleeing really fast.

But as this is really not the topic of EP7, my overarching idea was if those multiple guns and the simultaneously introduced Siestas are just misinterpreted noise of the witch illusion it is most likely that Bern is just committing a follow-up error by also fitting this idea in her story. If EP7 is really meant to show us fan theories this makes even more sense.

Well yes, the Stakes are more emotional. Why? Because the represent FEELINGS. Of course, some are blunt in feelings and don't stray much away from their sins. But they still feel.

Spoiler for Annoying list time:
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Old 2010-08-16, 09:49   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Yeah, she was just there and explained everything we need to know. She did nothing when the adults killed each other and when Kyrie tried to kill her.
And it's funny, the controller of the bomb that can destroy half of the island is pretty simple, just ON and OFF (Heck, it doesn't even have the label to let people know which is on which is off)
It's just like the self-destruction button in many cliche stories.
Oh well... I'm getting Resident Evil vibes here with all those "No matter what happens we have to blow up the whole place where everything was playing out til now before the story ends for no logical reason and some countdown crap for tension."

Really smells like a troll. But Beatrice illusion as a some document, note or another letter in an envelope left their makes sense then. After all all thats attributed to Beatrice doing for the epitaph was taken from a text as well. And if someone really set up this "game" by giving that one letter to Maria to search for this place why not also have a last explanation left for the victorious person. ^^
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Old 2010-08-16, 10:16   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Well yes, the Stakes are more emotional. Why? Because the represent FEELINGS. Of course, some are blunt in feelings and don't stray much away from their sins. But they still feel.

Spoiler for Annoying list time:
Well you are calling the Stakes a representation of feeling so easily but if those metaphors about the fantasy furnitures in the stories where really so unambiguous and clear cut we wouldn't need have of the discussion on the boards here. ^^ So I think treat this as fact is a bit careless in reasoning.
The story never really confirmed this. They still may for the most part represent the sins of the "victims" they strike down, the emotional involvements of the murder, the real icepicks as weapons or the involvement of specific persons in the murders or Anges/Marias fantasy friends in each individual case there get discussed.

But about the emotions of the Siestas: Thats why I wrote "emotionless".
They show a large number of emotional reaction and quirks and you even forget to mention how they run to mama Lia because Kinzo was such a bad bad meanie

But I was talking about how their are shown executing all the killing. They are essentially really pro about it. They don't question their tasks. They show much more cold-blooded and planned actions then the Siestas, are much more neutral to the whole stuff going on about the witches and most of all have this weird analogy to computers.

But this character comparison also is somehow besides the point actually WAS only how they may not directly represent weapon types but more likely some feats about the murderers (like e.g. how morality, intents, capability to execute the murders etc. compare in different stories). And you seem to agree on this but for me thats just one of many view point on this topic and sadly its also a really weak analogy with little facts to gain for the howdunnit which presents some of the bigger problems missing in EP3 and also EP7 if you don't believe the shotgun massacre version.
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Old 2010-08-16, 10:25   Link #104
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Last summaries for today.

Starts after the intro video up until Bern declares the game has begun.

Spoiler for Summaries:


Spoiler for Red Text:


Spoiler for Blue Text:


Okay now since it's being discussed how Ep7 has comparatively less reliance on the red and blue text but is apparently heavy of hints that have a big impact on solving the mysteries overall, I need to make a request of those who have finished the game.

In order to focus my abilities on the sections that should be considered very important that aren't defined by red and blue text, someone kindly PM me the specific sections or activities by the players of the board I should pay greater attention to. Specific examples would be certain discussions deemed important, sections where the detectives are investigating, meta scenes etc.

I'm not asking specifically for spoilers but I want to be able to focus my attention on specific scenes in order to read them better.
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Old 2010-08-16, 10:44   Link #105
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You really don't need any guidance, because the clues will jump on your face in Episode 7. Once you reach Lion's story, things will just go quite straightfoward.

It is just starting from the Tea party that things go a bit "funny".
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Old 2010-08-16, 10:47   Link #106
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So... I assume that unlike previous episodes the none colored hints are more in-your-face and made pronounced by the characters? Well that would surely make things a little easier...
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Old 2010-08-16, 10:53   Link #107
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To be blunt: the amount of "noise" in this episode is extremely minimal. In fact, Episode 7 is akin to Episode 1 presentation, with of course clues that are directly linked towards previous episodes, notably the general questions at hand (Shkanon? Identity of "beatrice"? etc).

The facts presented have absolutely (or nearly) no magic involved in the mess. Filtering the information is only what matters, and this is lightened quite a big margin in episode 7.
The only thing is to connect the dots with what we were presented with the first half. It is just the tea party that makes things on the usual "chaotic" ride.
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Old 2010-08-16, 11:01   Link #108
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Okay Klash thanks for the input. The important stuff will make itself obvious by themselves so I just need to pay attention.
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Old 2010-08-16, 11:02   Link #109
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When the name 'Yasu' appeared, I couldn't help myself laughing.
Because it reminded me of the most famous spoiler of an old adventure game in Japan : 「犯人はヤス」(' The culprit is Yasu '.)
This phrase is so famous that people often use it as a joke.
I believe that Ryukishi refered to it.

I thought the submarine of RSI in a background image of EP7 was photoshopped Akishio of JMSDF Kure museum (because I went to there several years ago) when I read EP7, but they have many differences.
http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/162/162427/index-5.html
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Old 2010-08-16, 11:38   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Spoiler for Summaries:
Bern told Will he was free to go wherever he wanted, provided that he could actually get out of the building (which she had made impossible by cutting it off from the surrounding fragment).

The reward for winning the game is that Bern will forgive him for being rude to her, and also give him the right to leave the chapel. Talk about an offer you can't refuse.
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Old 2010-08-16, 12:37   Link #111
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I hope I did not misread the episode.

During Will's dialogue with Maria, Will asked whether anyone was present when she and Beatrice met, Maria said "Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo".

THe question: Who was Beatrice then?
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Old 2010-08-16, 12:47   Link #112
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According to Will later, anyone both on and off that list could be, as Maria recognised Beatrice from behaviour rather than outward appearance -- so if more than one person played Beatrice for her, there would be no way for Maria to tell.
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Old 2010-08-16, 12:50   Link #113
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Just finished reading... took more time than usual, probably due to the longer story (espeically the tea party?) and being busy with other stuff...
Spoiler for thoughts of ep7:


Spoiler for speculation of ep7:
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Old 2010-08-16, 13:03   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
According to Will later, anyone both on and off that list could be, as Maria recognised Beatrice from behaviour rather than outward appearance -- so if more than one person played Beatrice for her, there would be no way for Maria to tell.
All males could be rejected though. And Jessica's behaviour and attitude to Maria in EP1 pretty much preclude her as well. Genji was Ronove, Kumasawa was Virgilia.

When Shannon was present, who was imposing as Beatrice?
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Old 2010-08-16, 13:10   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
When Shannon was present, who was imposing as Beatrice?
Yasu.

Which is one more reason I think the answers given out straight are not really the answers.
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Old 2010-08-16, 13:41   Link #116
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Man, the more I read this episode, the more my mind is full of fuck.

I just finished the first part, and I'm currently in the middle of the Tea Party.
Yasu/Lyon's motivation doesn't make much sense in my opinion, and it doesn't really justify mass murder, I believe.

I still don't get the whole LyoYaShKanontrice. During Yasu's backstory, it seemed that Shannon was someone s(he) came up with, and so was Kanon. Yet we saw Shannon and Kanon during Lyon's story, and there was no problem if Will saw either of them along with Lyon, as opposed to when he tried to have Shannon and Kanon at the same time, and Shannon BSOD'd. Well, there was something odd with the fact Shannon and Kanon didn't addressed Lyon with a proper title, and moreover, Lyon didn't seem to know who they were.
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Old 2010-08-16, 13:57   Link #117
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The whole Yasu business is suspicious.

Is EP7 something like:

This Yasu (raised in the orphanage after he was thrown down the cliff 19 years ago) was bullied and created both Shannon and Kanon persona, 6 years ago Battler said the "white horse" promise and he created Beatrice persona (wait, wasn't he a male?) to love Battler

Then Battler didn't come back, and he planned to murder everyone? Set the bomb?


Then whose sin it should be. Shouldn't it be Natsuhi's sin?
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Old 2010-08-16, 13:59   Link #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Man, the more I read this episode, the more my mind is full of fuck.

I just finished the first part, and I'm currently in the middle of the Tea Party.
Yasu/Lyon's motivation doesn't make much sense in my opinion, and it doesn't really justify mass murder, I believe.

I still don't get the whole LyoYaShKanontrice. During Yasu's backstory, it seemed that Shannon was someone s(he) came up with, and so was Kanon. Yet we saw Shannon and Kanon during Lyon's story, and there was no problem if Will saw either of them along with Lyon, as opposed to when he tried to have Shannon and Kanon at the same time, and Shannon BSOD'd. Well, there was something odd with the fact Shannon and Kanon didn't addressed Lyon with a proper title, and moreover, Lyon didn't seem to know who they were.
Lion not knowing Shannon/Kanon in the beginning makes sense, given the back story of who Lion is. What confuses me more is that the servants, whom doesn't seem to talk to Shannon at all when Yasu first appeared, responded to both of them before Yasu became Beatrice. Or perhaps that's just another play on words that I didn't catch...
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Old 2010-08-16, 14:18   Link #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
The whole Yasu business is suspicious.

Is EP7 something like:

This Yasu (raised in the orphanage after he was thrown down the cliff 19 years ago) was bullied and created both Shannon and Kanon persona, 6 years ago Battler said the "white horse" promise and he created Beatrice persona (wait, wasn't he a male?) to love Battler

Then Battler didn't come back, and he planned to murder everyone? Set the bomb?


Then whose sin it should be. Shouldn't it be Natsuhi's sin?
I don't get it---- too raunchy. How could Leon bully himself if he's Shannon/Kanon?
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Old 2010-08-16, 14:22   Link #120
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If Yasu is going to school, he/she has legal personhood. Somebody should be able to identify this person, so if Bern is going to advance that this person exists, she must believe there exists some legally-recognized existent person who was known to be present somewhere other than Rokkenjima. This is implied by the story, yet impossible to confirm. But if someone were to come along later, like Hachijou Touya, it should be possible to identify this person.

So does Bern know something, or is this a bluff? "Yeah this person existed, and had documentation, but I don't need to show how I know it, what it says, who the person is, or if any of this is true."
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