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Old 2010-08-26, 12:26   Link #241
wingzerosnuggles
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In a nutshell, yes. I'm choosing to ignore it. Sorry, but entertainment is meant to be enjoyed and I do not enjoy this. I may pick and choose aspects that I like but that's as far as I'll go. IMO, a canon where Heero cannot be shipped is no fun. Sumisawa basically alienated majority of the female fanbase, both yaoi and het shippers. Not a good move if you're trying to sell something. Then again, maybe he doesn't care and just wants to sell shiny robots. *shrugs*

Edit: Here's hoping Endless Waltz: Glory of the Defeated isn't a let down. *sighs* IMO, they should go the same route as they did with the three interquels. Those were three different stories falling into basically the same time period so you just picked the one you preferred. I hope EW: GotD paints a prettier picture. -_-

Last edited by wingzerosnuggles; 2010-08-26 at 12:39.
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Old 2010-08-26, 12:45   Link #242
Elo the Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles View Post
In a nutshell, yes. I'm choosing to ignore it. Sorry, but entertainment is meant to be enjoyed and I do not enjoy this. I may pick and choose aspects that I like but that's as far as I'll go. IMO, a canon where Heero cannot be shipped is no fun. Sumisawa basically alienated majority of the female fanbase, both yaoi and het shippers. Not a good move if you're trying to sell something. Then again, maybe he doesn't care and just wants to sell shiny robots. *shrugs*

Edit: Here's hoping Endless Waltz: Glory of the Defeated isn't a let down. *sighs* IMO, they should go the same route as they did with three interquels. Those were three different stories falling into basically the same time period so you just picked the one you preferred. I hope EW: GotD paints a prettier picture. -_-
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

While shipping has contributed greatly to GW's lasting popularity, I admire Sumisawa for creating a story that will truly expand AC and not just cater to certain parts of the fan-base.

I'm looking forward to Glory of the Defeated too but won't really care if it doesn't feature or reinforce popular couples.
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Old 2010-08-26, 12:49   Link #243
wingzerosnuggles
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There's also the issue of introducing new background info fifteen years after Episode Zero established itself as the definitive prequel. He's treading dangerous ground and could potentially retcon himself. Heck, he already has. Preventer 5 can't be canon in the FT timeline. Fine, introduce new stuff but retconing something that's been there for 15 years? I was already peeved at the whole "Dr. J survived past the last episode" thing.
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Old 2010-08-26, 13:02   Link #244
Elo the Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles View Post
There's also the issue of introducing new background info fifteen years after Episode Zero established itself as the definitive prequel. He's treading dangerous ground and could potentially retcon himself. Heck, he already has. Preventer 5 can't be canon in the FT timeline. Fine, introduce new stuff but retconing something that's been there for 15 years? I was already peeved at the whole "Dr. J survived past the last episode" thing.
I didn't like Dr.J surviving either but what Sumizawa has done isn't much different than what Tomino did with the Zeta movie trilogy.

Retcons are bound to happen after a story is revived many years later. And while Preventer 5 can't be considered canon if FT is, have any plot-points from Episode Zero been contradicted?
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Old 2010-08-26, 13:07   Link #245
wingzerosnuggles
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None as of yet, but as you already stated, retcons are bound to happen.
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Old 2010-08-26, 14:01   Link #246
Kitsoru
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Yeah, my beef has nothing to do with shipping. Shipping is an entirely fandom beast; you can ship something and still acknowledge it as non-canon. So I can still ship 1xR if I want and I would acknowledge that yes, as of this novel, it's (seemingly) non-canon. Same with any other ship. It's different from a canon pairing, for example Cecily and Seabook in F91 and Crossbone. They got married, they had a child. That's canon.

(Of course, there's also different levels of what is/isn't canon now. We still don't KNOW anything about Relena's status so we can't say for sure anything regarding her. But from the looks of it, 2xH IS, possibly, canon now. If they ever reveal the mother's identity....)

My problem stems from him trying to interject the main character's backstory 15 years after a series has ended. It just seems like poor, contrived writing, to me.
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Old 2010-08-26, 14:50   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
My problem stems from him trying to interject the main character's backstory 15 years after a series has ended. It just seems like poor, contrived writing, to me.
Heero's back-story had to be addressed at some point though. We know nothing him about prior to his appearance alongside Odin Lowe in AC 188.
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Old 2010-08-26, 21:45   Link #248
Kitsoru
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Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Heero's back-story had to be addressed at some point though. We know nothing him about prior to his appearance alongside Odin Lowe in AC 188.
Heero was clearly tagging along with Odin as a small toddler, so he was with Odin for quite some time. And in any case, we know nothing about Duo before he was a street kid either- or Wufei before only a year prior to the series. So why Heero? There's a TON of orphans in the After Colony timeline. It shouldn't particularly matter.

I'll be VERY disappointed if they address something like parentage without or before addressing Heero's quite frankly puzzling and never even TOUCHED upon superhuman biology.

Last edited by Kitsoru; 2010-08-26 at 21:55.
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Old 2010-08-26, 22:45   Link #249
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Quote:
In a nutshell, yes. I'm choosing to ignore it. Sorry, but entertainment is meant to be enjoyed and I do not enjoy this. I may pick and choose aspects that I like but that's as far as I'll go. IMO, a canon where Heero cannot be shipped is no fun. Sumisawa basically alienated majority of the female fanbase, both yaoi and het shippers. Not a good move if you're trying to sell something. Then again, maybe he doesn't care and just wants to sell shiny robots. *shrugs*

Edit: Here's hoping Endless Waltz: Glory of the Defeated isn't a let down. *sighs* IMO, they should go the same route as they did with the three interquels. Those were three different stories falling into basically the same time period so you just picked the one you preferred. I hope EW: GotD paints a prettier picture. -_-
When the adaptation started, I did know for sure there would be loads of canon and non-canon problem. Mainly cuz, like I have already stated, GW is so popular cuz it's so enigmatic. Once the enigma is washed away, people won't be able to speculate, rather have a solid base for facts. That, I think diminishes the appeal of GW a lot for many.
Personally, I am totally irked that Heero has been frozen alone without the other pilots since all the five pilots are the main characters and not only Heero (this reminds me of Dragonball...what was it? GT? Where Goku becomes a toddler again cuz they wanted to keep the main hero of DZ intact in the story). But I am still ready for another Novel, even if I don't like it as much as GW and EW (I don't think anything can beat that two) mainly because I LOVE GUNDAM WING! I love the story line, the characters; how I felt the isolation of the pilots, the frustration, then a small satisfaction; loved how the pilots kept going through everything just to reach a goal which they weren't even doing for themselves nor were they appreciated; how there were casual civilians who got attached to them, how the villains were swayed by the tide of time & how they swayed the tide at times. Loved the feel of reality in series, the loss of the world, the fact of the world, how they defined terrorists, the values in life.....I just loved it all. I am ready to see the novel yet continue with my fandom cuz fandom isn't to be effected anyway by anything since it's FANdom.

Ouch, I think I wrote too much....I had to reply to other entries too, but maybe later if I have time ^^;
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Old 2010-08-27, 22:31   Link #250
wingzerosnuggles
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Preferences notwithstanding. let's move on to more pleasant avenues of discussion, shall we? Thankfully, unlike the internet in my dormitory, university internet doesn't block Pixiv.

Recent fan art of a young Treize:


That looks like the St. Gabriel's Institute uniform. Still, from Episode Zero we saw that Treize was an instructor at Lake Victoria while 14 year old Noin was there so this is an unlikely guess unless we read in the text that he went there for elementary school or something.

Also, it strikes me as odd that he and Van took their mother's surname and not their father's. Did Ein never marry Angelina? Did he take her last name because she was of nobler blood? Van has a different father so did Angelina cheat on Ein and did he just not give a damn? I'd actually like Angelina to be the cheating sort. It's a twist on the usual long suffering wife - cheating aristocrat of a husband convention. Nice role reversal. Ein would probably have had to endure her adultery considering who his father-in-law is.

And because it's pretty...



*sighs* If she is the mother of Duo's son, it would make the most sense, IMO.

Last edited by wingzerosnuggles; 2010-08-28 at 13:10.
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Old 2010-08-28, 20:17   Link #251
Kitsoru
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There appears to be a fan-created design for Duo Jr. that's popped up on pixiv and is already being embraced by fandom (I've seen someone cosplay it already, even)

http://www.pixiv.net/tags.php?tag=FrozenTeardrop
The tag, for those that can browse pixiv, or if not:



My friend informs me he's cursing his dad out XD He looks like Duo if he stole Squall's coat...
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Old 2010-08-28, 21:02   Link #252
Elo the Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star-Wing View Post
When the adaptation started, I did know for sure there would be loads of canon and non-canon problem. Mainly cuz, like I have already stated, GW is so popular cuz it's so enigmatic. Once the enigma is washed away, people won't be able to speculate, rather have a solid base for facts. That, I think diminishes the appeal of GW a lot for many.
Personally, I am totally irked that Heero has been frozen alone without the other pilots since all the five pilots are the main characters and not only Heero (this reminds me of Dragonball...what was it? GT? Where Goku becomes a toddler again cuz they wanted to keep the main hero of DZ intact in the story). But I am still ready for another Novel, even if I don't like it as much as GW and EW (I don't think anything can beat that two) mainly because I LOVE GUNDAM WING! I love the story line, the characters; how I felt the isolation of the pilots, the frustration, then a small satisfaction; loved how the pilots kept going through everything just to reach a goal which they weren't even doing for themselves nor were they appreciated; how there were casual civilians who got attached to them, how the villains were swayed by the tide of time & how they swayed the tide at times. Loved the feel of reality in series, the loss of the world, the fact of the world, how they defined terrorists, the values in life.....I just loved it all. I am ready to see the novel yet continue with my fandom cuz fandom isn't to be effected anyway by anything since it's FANdom.

Ouch, I think I wrote too much....I had to reply to other entries too, but maybe later if I have time ^^;
One of the best posts I've seen on this forum. I couldn't agree more my friend; especially with your analysis of the pilots and story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles View Post
Preferences notwithstanding. let's move on to more pleasant avenues of discussion, shall we? Thankfully, unlike the internet in my dormitory, university internet doesn't block Pixiv.

Recent fan art of a young Treize:
The portrait of Treize is very well done. I really like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
There appears to be a fan-created design for Duo Jr. that's popped up on pixiv and is already being embraced by fandom (I've seen someone cosplay it already, even)

http://www.pixiv.net/tags.php?tag=FrozenTeardrop
The tag, for those that can browse pixiv, or if not:



My friend informs me he's cursing his dad out XD He looks like Duo if he stole Squall's coat...
Someone has already cosplayed Duo Jr.? Wow...

That rendering seems pretty accurate though.
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Old 2010-08-30, 10:40   Link #253
wingzerosnuggles
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Another summary:
http://blog.gemini-aa.com/?eid=139#sequel

Babelfish at your leisure.
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Old 2010-08-31, 02:43   Link #254
wingzerosnuggles
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And yet another depiction of a young Treize.

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Old 2010-08-31, 05:35   Link #255
wingzerosnuggles
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Also, any idea what this chart says?

Spoiler for spoiler for space:
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Old 2010-08-31, 08:18   Link #256
Chiu_fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzerosnuggles View Post
Also, any idea what this chart says?

Spoiler for spoiler for space:
Basically its a family tree. From what I can read it says(from top to bottom): Yuy, Kushrenada, Catalonia, and Barton families.

And the names that are identified here are:
A. Yuy family: Heero and Ain(?)
B. Kushrenada family: Sankanto(?), Angelina, Treize and Van
C. Catalonia family: Derumaiyu(?), Funderuto(?), Kiiria(?) and Dorothy
D. Barton family: Dekim, Reia(?), Trowa and Mariemaia
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Old 2010-08-31, 08:44   Link #257
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^
That might make Trowa and Heero (both of them the pilots) cousins or something xD (just kidding but it does seem funny )
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Old 2010-08-31, 11:22   Link #258
Kitsoru
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Originally Posted by Chiu_fan View Post
C. Catalonia family: Derumaiyu(?), Funderuto(?), Kiiria(?) and Dorothy
D. Barton family: Dekim, Reia(?), Trowa and Mariemaia
I believe Derumaiyu = Dermail (the Duke) and Reia = Leia.

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^
That might make Trowa and Heero (both of them the pilots) cousins or something xD (just kidding but it does seem funny )
In name, anyway ;D
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Old 2010-08-31, 11:33   Link #259
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Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Heero's back-story had to be addressed at some point though. We know nothing him about prior to his appearance alongside Odin Lowe in AC 188.
There was a time when I just wanted to know about the g-pilts parentage <3 I jsut hope they follow it up with all the characters rather then just Heero. I really don't want them to focus only on Heero...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Heero was clearly tagging along with Odin as a small toddler, so he was with Odin for quite some time. And in any case, we know nothing about Duo before he was a street kid either- or Wufei before only a year prior to the series. So why Heero? There's a TON of orphans in the After Colony timeline. It shouldn't particularly matter.

I'll be VERY disappointed if they address something like parentage without or before addressing Heero's quite frankly puzzling and never even TOUCHED upon superhuman biology.
Umm...remember episode 24? Where Quatre shot Trowa when Tro was in Vayete? After that, Trowa moved a scrap of metal from in front of him. Frankly, scrap or not, if it was a part of his MS he shouldn't have been able to just move it like that (especially after he got hit and started bleeding O_O). Plus he survived the blast when Vayete exploded even though he was right in the center of the blast and his suit got damaged worse then what Wing got. All Trowa suffered was a memory lapse which might be accounted to the lack of oxygen in space (I guess he must have had suffered other injuries but nothing he didn't get cured from). All I am trying to say is that all the pilots underwent training to become the gundam pilots (Trowa the least, if I remember correctly) and this training is the reason for their super strength; I just gave Trowa's example cuz it's totally obvious. Since Heero was trained from an even younger age, it's natural for him to be stronger (personally, how come Trowa's so strong is what I want to know...).
Even Duo and Wufei could control their autonomous functions (back in the Lunar base, xD). It's just that Heero's focused upon too much (and I love him soo much too); I hope they focus on others in the novel, but frankly.....focusing on adults g-pilots doesn't make me so excited but I still want to read the novel (cuz it's addicting, none the less).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
I didn't like Dr.J surviving either but what Sumizawa has done isn't much different than what Tomino did with the Zeta movie trilogy.

Retcons are bound to happen after a story is revived many years later. And while Preventer 5 can't be considered canon if FT is, have any plot-points from Episode Zero been contradicted?
Hmm...silly me but I can't see why Preventer 5 is contradicted? Personally, I wish Sumizawa would have completed this (and someone should have animated this + episode zero + battlefield of pacifists + *list goes on*)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

While shipping has contributed greatly to GW's lasting popularity, I admire Sumisawa for creating a story that will truly expand AC and not just cater to certain parts of the fan-base.

I'm looking forward to Glory of the Defeated too but won't really care if it doesn't feature or reinforce popular couples.
When I read some comments around, I got scared that maybe I am alone in loving this novel -_-
But glad to have a partner in crime around (Parings don't matter much to me as much as the friendship concept of GW does )

Quote:
In name, anyway ;D
Yea, since someone in their so called family married in other's family
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Old 2010-08-31, 11:36   Link #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Heero's back-story had to be addressed at some point though. We know nothing him about prior to his appearance alongside Odin Lowe in AC 188.
There was a time when I just wanted to know about the g-pilots parentage <3 I just hope they follow it up with all the characters rather then just Heero. I really don't want them to focus only on Heero...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsoru View Post
Heero was clearly tagging along with Odin as a small toddler, so he was with Odin for quite some time. And in any case, we know nothing about Duo before he was a street kid either- or Wufei before only a year prior to the series. So why Heero? There's a TON of orphans in the After Colony timeline. It shouldn't particularly matter.

I'll be VERY disappointed if they address something like parentage without or before addressing Heero's quite frankly puzzling and never even TOUCHED upon superhuman biology.
Umm...remember episode 24? Where Quatre shot Trowa when Tro was in Vayete? After that, Trowa moved a scrap of metal from in front of him. Frankly, scrap or not, if it was a part of his MS he shouldn't have been able to just move it like that (especially after he got hit and started bleeding O_O). Plus he survived the blast when Vayete exploded even though he was right in the center of the blast and his suit got damaged worse then what Wing got. All Trowa suffered was a memory lapse which might be accounted to the lack of oxygen in space (I guess he must have had suffered other injuries but nothing he didn't get cured from). All I am trying to say is that all the pilots underwent training to become the gundam pilots (Trowa the least, if I remember correctly) and this training is the reason for their super strength; I just gave Trowa's example cuz it's totally obvious. Since Heero was trained from an even younger age, it's natural for him to be stronger (personally, how come Trowa's so strong is what I want to know...).
Even Duo and Wufei could control their autonomous functions (back in the Lunar base, xD). It's just that Heero's focused upon too much (and I love him soo much too); I hope they focus on others in the novel, but frankly.....focusing on adults g-pilots doesn't make me so excited but I still want to read the novel (cuz it's addicting, none the less).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
I didn't like Dr.J surviving either but what Sumizawa has done isn't much different than what Tomino did with the Zeta movie trilogy.

Retcons are bound to happen after a story is revived many years later. And while Preventer 5 can't be considered canon if FT is, have any plot-points from Episode Zero been contradicted?
Hmm...silly me but I can't see why Preventer 5 is contradicted? Personally, I wish Sumizawa would have completed this (and someone should have animated this + episode zero + battlefield of pacifists + *list goes on*)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elo the Blue View Post
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

While shipping has contributed greatly to GW's lasting popularity, I admire Sumisawa for creating a story that will truly expand AC and not just cater to certain parts of the fan-base.

I'm looking forward to Glory of the Defeated too but won't really care if it doesn't feature or reinforce popular couples.
When I read some comments around, I got scared that maybe I am alone in loving this novel -_-
But glad to have a partner in crime around (Parings don't matter much to me as much as the friendship concept of GW does )

Quote:
In name, anyway ;D
Yea, since someone in their so called family married in other's family
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