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Old 2010-08-25, 11:31   Link #41
Kristen
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The one that irks me the most is completely ignoring lyrics on the screen, and just timing subs however you feel like.
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Old 2010-08-25, 12:00   Link #42
DragoZERO
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This doesn't just go for fansubbing, even official subtitles are like this. BD has so much more support of subtitles, and no one uses them (six different colors!!).

Translation and localization is too opinionated and there is no standard. It's almost useless to talk about that.

My gripes...
  • Using poor grammar. Run the script through a spell check (like MS Word), it'd catch your mistakes.
  • Adding foul language.
  • Not translating relevant signs, like newspapers & magazines.
  • Not distinguishing subtitles when multiple characters are talking, or if there's a radio or TV in the background.
  • Coloring subtitles for each character based on their hair color.
  • Adding the episode title in fancy font to the beginning of the episode when it isn't shown until the end.
  • Adding the episode title to the file name.
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Old 2010-08-25, 14:21   Link #43
Heibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
This doesn't just go for fansubbing, even official subtitles are like this. BD has so much more support of subtitles, and no one uses them (six different colors!!).

Translation and localization is too opinionated and there is no standard. It's almost useless to talk about that.

My gripes...
  • Using poor grammar. Run the script through a spell check (like MS Word), it'd catch your mistakes.
  • Adding foul language.
  • Not translating relevant signs, like newspapers & magazines.
  • Not distinguishing subtitles when multiple characters are talking, or if there's a radio or TV in the background.
  • Coloring subtitles for each character based on their hair color.
  • Adding the episode title in fancy font to the beginning of the episode when it isn't shown until the end.
  • Adding the episode title to the file name.
And on poor grammar. Remember, using the wrong word spelled correctly is still wrong.
Examples of atrocities:
"form" instead of "from", "there" for "their", "they're" for "their", "freight" for "fright", and the worst offender "then" for "than".
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Old 2010-08-25, 14:26   Link #44
Vexx
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There are a fair number of 3 year high schools in the US (K-6, 7-9, 10-12) ... so basically we're talking about provincial ignorance when viewers get confused on that one -- hard to respond to that other than "rest of the world ain't like your neighborhood, eh?"

As for general sorts of errors: sloppy grammar, insertion of profanity where none exists, insertion of own humor under the pretense of 'localizing', basic spelling errors, proverb/analogy failures - the list goes on.

A little less speed and a bit more QC/edit/research would do wonders.
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Old 2010-08-25, 16:32   Link #45
Schneizel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
[*]Adding foul language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
insertion of profanity where none exists,
So gangsters, ruffians and delinquents should talk like tame kawaii kittens because cuss words doesn't exist in the original dialog?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
A little less speed and a bit more QC/edit/research would do wonders.
It has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with how much serious effort the subbers are willing to put in.
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Old 2010-08-25, 18:20   Link #46
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
So gangsters, ruffians and delinquents should talk like tame kawaii kittens because cuss words doesn't exist in the original dialog?
I don't think "baka" means "dick" or "bitch." I don't expect it to be "idiot" every single time, but don't make it a curse word when it's not.

It's also done in official translations too. Del Rey's Suzuka really increased the profanity. I don't know what their logic was.
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Old 2010-08-25, 20:50   Link #47
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@DragoZERO, well the simple fact of the matter is that you're wrong.
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Old 2010-08-25, 20:52   Link #48
Heibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyth View Post
@DragoZERO, well the simple fact of the matter is that you're wrong.
Now, now. It's an opinion, so let's not start a flame thread and get it shut down. Plus you didn't say what Drago was wrong about.
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Old 2010-08-25, 21:01   Link #49
Schneizel
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To be honest, I have no idea how Drago's post is even a reply to mine.
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Old 2010-08-25, 21:07   Link #50
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
To be honest, I have no idea how Drago's post is even a reply to mine.
I apologize, I should have clarified: such as with shonen series aired in the daytime.

There are series where the fansubber described it as creative localized translation, but that was a series aired late at night and based on an eroge, with mature content matter.
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Old 2010-08-26, 02:39   Link #51
DryFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I don't think "baka" means "dick" or "bitch." I don't expect it to be "idiot" every single time, but don't make it a curse word when it's not.

It's also done in official translations too. Del Rey's Suzuka really increased the profanity. I don't know what their logic was.
Because Japanese curse words are pretty tame compared to those in English or other languages. They seem to be much less direct and a lot of English readers would probably not get it.
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Old 2010-08-26, 12:45   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I apologize, I should have clarified: such as with shonen series aired in the daytime.

There are series where the fansubber described it as creative localized translation, but that was a series aired late at night and based on an eroge, with mature content matter.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...luesDissonance
what you may think of as "mature" may not be what japan thinks of as "mature"
hth
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Old 2010-08-26, 14:20   Link #53
TGEN
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Dutch cursing is best cursing. But I wouldn't call localisation vs. literal really a mistake, just differing preferences.
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Old 2010-08-26, 15:20   Link #54
Heibi
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The key thing to remember is who is speaking when choosing what type or intensity of curse. Belldandy won't be saying the f-word, but Sarugaki Hiyori(Bleach) or Keisuke(Initial D) might.

And as always, you don't have to use intense curse words if you don't want to. We try to avoid them and just stick to standard ones.
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Old 2010-08-26, 15:48   Link #55
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
The key thing to remember is who is speaking when choosing what type or intensity of curse. Belldandy won't be saying the f-word, but Sarugaki Hiyori(Bleach) or Keisuke(Initial D) might.

And as always, you don't have to use intense curse words if you don't want to. We try to avoid them and just stick to standard ones.
Requoted for great truth. If it isn't the way that sort of character would talk then it probably isn't projecting the spirit of the original intent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel
So gangsters, ruffians and delinquents should talk like tame kawaii kittens because cuss words doesn't exist in the original dialog?
Fascinating In no way did I mention any of those three categories of characters. I'll occasionally see profanity used in fansubs when the speaker is unlikely to speak that way either because of their personality, character type, or situational context. But to be honest... if the original dialog didn't have it, there's not usually a reason to add it. Basically, such antics start trending towards "joke subs" or "What's Up, Tiger Lilly?" rewrites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel
It has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with how much serious effort the subbers are willing to put in.
Strangely, there's some correspondence between effort and time-to-release If you have to look up a proverb to properly characterize the translated dialog, that took you 3 or 4 more minutes than just thrashing out a grammatically correct but misleading literal translation. Obviously, the more knowledgeable and skilled subbers don't need to research or stew over such things quite as much.

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-08-26 at 16:14.
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Old 2010-08-26, 16:10   Link #56
TGEN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Requoted for great truth. If it isn't the way that sort of character would talk then it probably isn't projecting the spirit of the original intent.

Fascinating In no way did I mention any of those three categories of characters. I'll occasionally see profanity used in fansubs when the speaker is unlikely to speak that way either because of their personality, character type, or situational context. But to be honest... if the original dialog didn't have it, there's not usually a reason to add it. Basically, such antics start trending towards "joke subs" or "What's Up, Tiger Lilly?" rewrites.
Well, there is a reason to add profanity if you're localising at times. But I take it you prefer literal over localised.
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Old 2010-08-26, 16:19   Link #57
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TGEN View Post
Well, there is a reason to add profanity if you're localising at times. But I take it you prefer literal over localised.
We're probably thinking of very different situations and it may have to do with experience. If localization means you're having university professors speak coarsely and with much slang in formal situations... that's not localization anymore. If you're characterizing a gangster who speaks quite rudely in Japanese, then profanity is dead-on-target. The debate would be over whether the choices were appropriate in context.

I see the word "localization" bandied about in ways on some channels/forums that don't really correspond to its meaning (unless we're going to include the 4Kids or Pokemon type of rewrite shenanigans).


The silly thing is that I wasn't even focused on profanity so much, it was more of a general note that translation/qc/edit sometimes suffers unless the team is willing to do the research to catch what would be obvious to a native speaker. Series that thrive on puns, humor, cultural references, etc need that extra care in particular.

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-08-26 at 23:56.
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Old 2010-08-26, 17:54   Link #58
Eisdrache
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I'm not exactly sure if some of you are just trolling or simply plain oblivious. It should be clear as daylight that certain characters would never use <insert swearing> while others will do it all the time. If you are using overly foul language that is out of character for the one saying it then you are simply doing it wrong.

One other thing that bugs me is the overuse of 'fabulous'.
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Old 2010-08-26, 18:17   Link #59
Plorkyeran
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Yes, it is quite self evident that using foul language when it is out of character is doing it wrong. The disagreement is over how often it's out of character.
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Old 2010-08-26, 23:34   Link #60
manage2
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Stomped toe or crashed server...calls for profanity! but the other stuff is mostly optional....
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