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Old 2010-08-25, 20:49   Link #1281
mark1246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillmissing View Post
I'm not sure what you are saying, but if you are asking why she's so upset,

Spoiler for chapter 34:
Wow i wouldn't know know, thanks

Last edited by mark1246; 2010-08-25 at 20:51. Reason: the wrong words
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Old 2010-08-25, 20:50   Link #1282
mark1246
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Scary, that face reminds me the yan-yan face me Kaede from Shuffle!.


Spoiler for Mikoto=Original, LOL:

Hey, a destroyed satellite is no that bad, didn't she wanted to mess with the Tree Diagram to begin?
Are there any links you can post here so we can view them, please?
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Old 2010-08-25, 21:56   Link #1283
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
1. Well, I'd assume she'd keep redirecting the cage of electricity. As far as I know, Accelerator has to basically touch something in order to redirect it. So he could keep moving, but he's not faster than electricity.
He might not be faster than electricity, but he just needs to be faster than Mikoto.

Anyway the oxygen trick was tried by an Imouto, Accelerator countered by sticking close to her.

Quote:
2. His skin still has to to clot, and it will still cause pain.
But yeah, it won't stop pain, but it's not game winning either.

Quote:
4. Hmm, I never heard about a landmine incident, although I admit I only watched the anime. But it would be pretty cheap if his power essentially makes him "immune to harm."
The incident was from the railgun manga.

Yeah that's pretty much why he's considered the strongest.

Quote:
One thing that also bothered me is the fact that, if his defenses are so passive and automatically redirect things, how could he be shot in the head? The anime said he didn't have time to calculate whatever was necessary to redirect the bullet, but it's also indicated that it works automatically in a passive manner, too. Which is it? The bullet shows that he does have limits, and if you can distract him with enough vector calculations, you can get something through.
Passively or rather subconsciously, he would redirect anything harmful to his body. But he can also actively use it to control various things. All of which requires his brain to calculate the value of the vectors.

But you are right, as you could see from the anime, you can overload him with and insane amount of calculation that he cannot use his powers.

Aside from that and Imagine Breaker, there are some other insane methods use to defeat his Redirection powers. I'm assuming you don't follow the spoilers so I'll leave it as that.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2010-08-25 at 22:21.
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Old 2010-08-25, 21:56   Link #1284
Suzuku
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Originally Posted by mark1246 View Post
Are there any links you can post here so we can view them, please?
I'm pretty sure they got them from /a/, which means the thread is probably dead now. :[
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Old 2010-08-25, 22:15   Link #1285
Marcus H.
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The only way to one-hit kill Accel is using Fiamma. He has an ability that does not follow the rules of physics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaru Majutsu no Index Wiki
> The strike that ends everything it touches: this attack destroys everything it touches without any destructive force.
> The strike that reaches everything when swung: this attack delivers itself right next to its target without any speed, thus allowing him to move anywhere at will.
But anyway, we're hijacking another thread into a "How To Defeat Accelerator" thread.
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Old 2010-08-25, 22:20   Link #1286
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Erm yea, that and I don't think he's following the novel so those spoilers might not be a good idea.
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Old 2010-08-25, 22:36   Link #1287
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Yeah, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll only say a bit more and then let it return to normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
He might not be faster than electricity, but he just needs to be faster than Mikoto.

Anyway the oxygen trick was tried by an Imouto, Accelerator countered by sticking close to her.
Part of the problem I saw was that she gave a hint by saying "there's no wind" and also she was only Lv2. So my theory was that a lv5 trying it would be more successful.

Blind and deafen him after softening him up with some vacuum slashes to heighten the pain he's feeling, then remove the oxygen. Not saying it would be successful, only that it was a possibility (whatever % of success you want to assign to it). I just found it a bit hard to believe Mikoto would stand 0 chance against him.

But I do recognize he is strong.

And I do kinda follow the spoilers and the light novels, although there are chunks missing from the LN translation page, and in some ways, the mechanics of the universe and all the various powers are becoming too complex. I kinda gave mostly trying to compare and say "who would win?" because it basically boils down to who the author wants to win.
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Old 2010-08-25, 22:39   Link #1288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Yeah, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll only say a bit more and then let it return to normal.



Part of the problem I saw was that she gave a hint by saying "there's no wind" and also she was only Lv2. So my theory was that a lv5 trying it would be more successful.

Blind and deafen him after softening him up with some vacuum slashes to heighten the pain he's feeling, then remove the oxygen. Not saying it would be successful, only that it was a possibility (whatever % of success you want to assign to it). I just found it a bit hard to believe Mikoto would stand 0 chance against him.

But I do recognize he is strong.

And I do kinda follow the spoilers and the light novels, although there are chunks missing from the LN translation page, and in some ways, the mechanics of the universe and all the various powers are becoming too complex. I kinda gave mostly trying to compare and say "who would win?" because it basically boils down to who the author wants to win.
To many errors here, he still can control the flow of air and by the same idea is useless to do that, also a vaccum wont do good when he can control the flow of air, the sound and light would be filter by his vector field, knowing him I am 99.99% sure his vector field would ignore sound beyond a certain frecuency or decivel.
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Old 2010-08-26, 06:33   Link #1289
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Ya know, I've been thinking about a Mikoto/Accelerator matchup, trying to see if there was any way for her to beat him. Came up with a few possibles that may or may not work:

1. He needs to breathe, so there are various ways of removing oxygen, one of which one of the clones tried to do. Lightning does split the air, creating a temporary vacuum; thunder is the sound of the air rushing back in to fill eat. So you can create a "cage" of electricity to block new oxygen from getting in. This has the side effect of also heating the air within, and while he can vector heat away, it would still eat up oxygen.

2. Expansion of the vacuum idea; a vacuum isn't a vector by itself, so send lightning to "miss" his body just barely, and let the resulting vacuum cause physical damage via lacerations. When he loses enough blood, he'll get weak and pass out.

3. Strong magnetic fields. He doesn't unconsciously vector these away since they don't cause harm... but lure him into a metal building and charge it up with a very strong magnetic field and you can begin to affect the iron in the blood and he brain. By the time he realizes what's going on, he's too disoriented and damaged internally. Magnetic fields do have a vector, so it would count on him not realizing what's going on; would need a distraction. Would would come in the form of...

4. Bright flashes of light to blind him, and loud thunderclap sounds near his ears to deafen him. He's not changing the vector of light, and he consciously needs to block out sound; proper application of lightning and thunder would occur too fast for him to change. Even if he blocks out sound, that still leaves him relatively deaf.

5. More of a silly idea, but... follow him around, zapping the food and water he tries to eat and drink so he can't. Hunger/thirst does him in, heh.

Anyway, stupid ideas, not sure if they've been discussed, but I wondered why they thought so strongly that she couldn't beat him, when the application of their powers does leave openings. The only reason I am left with is: "Somehow he would always be able to outthink her" which means powers doesn't have as much to do with it.
1.) Accelerator can manipulate anything he touches. Even if Mikoto or one of the Sisters cut off the oxygen supply, the vacuum created by lightning would cause air from the surrounding area to rush in to take its place. This air movement is a vector, which Accelerator can manipulate.

2.) Accelerator can manipulate almost anything. It'd be a reasonable weakness if he couldn't manipulate anything that doesn't have a vector, but he was written to even be able to manipulate heat. Heat is a scalar quantity and does not have a unified direction to it, yet Accel can manipulate it. It's safe to assume that Accelator's power would shield him from the vacuum too.

3.) You have no idea what he does redirect. Because...

4.) Accelerator does redirect light vectors. Ever wonder why he's completely pale, his eyes are red, and his hair white? His body redirects the ultraviolet part of the light spectrum, even though small doses aren't harmful to the body at all because the human body produces pigments to absorb light. His body does reflect light, which is why his skin, hair, and eyes have no pigments. As for sound, even if he does have to consciously redirect it, he can do it in no time at all. He redirected Mikoto's electricity and railgun with little effort, and her attacks aren't exactly slow. Also, Accelerator does not have to completely block out sound. Sound acts as vibrations through a physical medium, like air. With Accel's ability, he could soften the sound down to a harmless intensity.

5.)Sure, if you can think of a way to follow him for weeks without getting caught or harming others in the process. A lot of water supplies are through public facilities. If that gets zapped, the entire supply could be affected, meaning others who use said facilities would be affected as well.


Application of their powers does leave some room for debate, but Accelator has shown enough how precise he can be with his powers. If he was able to remove a virus from Last Order's memory without harming any of her other brain functions, he can certainly handle anything less complicated like protecting himself.
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Old 2010-08-26, 14:51   Link #1290
giorno
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you see the problem is that Kamachi isn't good with physics: if accelerator's power actually was "merely" vector manipulation, then yeah, it might be possible for mikoto to harm him in some way. But it's not. Accelerator's power works on pretty much anything except for magic, including dark matter, that's why we say Mikoto doesn't stand a chance...
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Old 2010-08-26, 15:12   Link #1291
Phibrizzo
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Originally Posted by giorno View Post
you see the problem is that Kamachi isn't good with physics: if accelerator's power actually was "merely" vector manipulation, then yeah, it might be possible for mikoto to harm him in some way. But it's not. Accelerator's power works on pretty much anything except for magic, including dark matter, that's why we say Mikoto doesn't stand a chance...
Well he does know a bit more than your averange novel writer, also escalars are still vectorial forces, not in the normal sense we see of direction, magnitude.

Also accelerator power works on a quamtum lvl while so far mikoto is on molecular level at best.

He cant work with magic so far unless you add his strong AIM field and his awaken form.

Darkmatter while it doesnt follow this universe rules doesnt mean it doesnt follow rules, is basically reverse engeniering.
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Old 2010-08-26, 19:28   Link #1292
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*Manga discussion

Looks like Mikoto finally loses it this time. The conclusion is foregone, but it would be nice if at the end of the Sisters arc we see some hint that she's NOT 'all better' or something. She pretty clearly lost it in this arc, and it'd make her a more interesting character if she had to deal with mild insanity for a prolonged time.
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Old 2010-08-26, 22:51   Link #1293
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He's pretty much invulnerable to most magic anyways because supposedly when magic comes in contact with his AIM field it turns into harmless colorful lights instead of redirecting it. Accelerator himself doesn't know why this happens.
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Old 2010-08-26, 23:58   Link #1294
tsunade666
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ah... guys, guys, GUYS! calm down on accelerator discussion and on his power and on his overwhelming winning against mikoto.

It's supposed to be railgun manga discussion. And as the spoiler states. the next part is already in the bridge and their wouldn't be any battle for accelerator and mikoto on the future arcs.

Let's focus on the up coming battle of angry mikoto and touma then mikoto trying to help touma against accelerator. She even tried to commit suicide by firing railgun at accelerator directly.
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Old 2010-08-27, 00:20   Link #1295
Ice Block
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
you see the problem is that Kamachi isn't good with physics: if accelerator's power actually was "merely" vector manipulation, then yeah, it might be possible for mikoto to harm him in some way. But it's not. Accelerator's power works on pretty much anything except for magic, including dark matter, that's why we say Mikoto doesn't stand a chance...
First, you have to realize that any form of energy transfer or interaction can be expressed as a vector. No interaction can occur without the exchange (implying movement, which is capped at the speed of light, ie information cannot be transferred faster than the speed of light) of carrier particles. Second, all observed fields can be expressed as vector fields -- for example, the simplest representation of an electromagnetic field would be the right hand rule where your thumb represents the direction of the current and your curled fingers represent the direction of the magnetic field.

It is you who is not good with physics here, not Kamachi. Take this to the Accelerator thread or the metaphysics discussion thread if you want in-depth analysis on why the proposed ways for Mikoto to "defeat" Accelerator will all fail horribly.
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Old 2010-08-27, 10:06   Link #1296
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Even though there's not much left to this arc, there's still a brief moment where Mikoto is left alone that could be covered. Touma went on his own to stop Accelerator, before Mikoto followed on her on volition. Maybe we could better see how she changed from being in suicidal despair to having enough faith to depend on someone else for help.

The Sisters arc is Mikoto's story, after all, and I think she changed the most after this arc. Mikoto always did things on her own and refused help from others, because I think she was a bit cynical on humanity to begin with.

Spoiler for ch3:


Mikoto thinks that no one would help others they don't know or if they're not sure they can succeed. Since Mikoto has to find a way to stop Accelerator, and Accelerator is the strongest, she thinks that no one would come help her, so she isolates herself and tries to deal with the experiment on her own. Since she's failing everytime, Mikoto starts to believe more and more that she can't stop the experiment. If she can't stop the experiment, and she believes no one would willingly help her stop the experiment, she falls into despair.

Of course, that's where Touma comes in again. Like that time he helped her against those thugs, he goes against Mikoto's beliefs on human morality. Since Touma is willing to put himself in danger for the sake of others, Mikoto finally asks for someone else's help, not for herself, but to help Touma.

You could say that against Accelerator is the only time Mikoto really put herself in any real danger. Before, she was never in real danger because she knew she had the power to outclass any opponent, so she always did things on her own.
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Old 2010-08-27, 12:31   Link #1297
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
The Sisters arc is Mikoto's story, after all, and I think she changed the most after this arc. Mikoto always did things on her own and refused help from others, because I think she was a bit cynical on humanity to begin with.
Saddly still she does thing on her own.

Quote:
Spoiler for ch3:


Mikoto thinks that no one would help others they don't know or if they're not sure they can succeed. Since Mikoto has to find a way to stop Accelerator, and Accelerator is the strongest, she thinks that no one would come help her, so she isolates herself and tries to deal with the experiment on her own. Since she's failing everytime, Mikoto starts to believe more and more that she can't stop the experiment. If she can't stop the experiment, and she believes no one would willingly help her stop the experiment, she falls into despair.

Of course, that's where Touma comes in again. Like that time he helped her against those thugs, he goes against Mikoto's beliefs on human morality. Since Touma is willing to put himself in danger for the sake of others, Mikoto finally asks for someone else's help, not for herself, but to help Touma.

You could say that against Accelerator is the only time Mikoto really put herself in any real danger. Before, she was never in real danger because she knew she had the power to outclass any opponent, so she always did things on her own.
Isn't like she thinks that no one would come help her, she does thinks nobody can help her.
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Old 2010-08-27, 13:19   Link #1298
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Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
First, you have to realize that any form of energy transfer or interaction can be expressed as a vector. No interaction can occur without the exchange (implying movement, which is capped at the speed of light, ie information cannot be transferred faster than the speed of light) of carrier particles. Second, all observed fields can be expressed as vector fields -- for example, the simplest representation of an electromagnetic field would be the right hand rule where your thumb represents the direction of the current and your curled fingers represent the direction of the magnetic field.
mh, you're actually right about that, but for accelerator's power to work like that, it means it can interact with matter on a quantum level...and it still wouldn't explain how he could survive, say, a nuke, since he would only be able to "isolate" the area immediately around him from the heat....then again, he himself said he might not survive a nuke afterall...nah, scratch that, all he needs to do is "touch" the air to give it a direction, from there he can freely manipulate the temperature as well...


Quote:
It is you who is not good with physics here, not Kamachi.
you're right. Still, Kamachi does fail horribly at physics, at least as far as the railgun is concerned(there's also accelerator's "lol let's redirect kinetic energy from the earth's rotation here" from volume 13 which some guy calculated should have pretty much extinguished all life from the planet, and possibly the planet itself...)
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Old 2010-08-27, 13:23   Link #1299
tsunade666
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well who's insane person would even bother helping mikoto if her enemy is accelerator and the dark side of the academy city. It's a good thing touma is an ignorant person when it comes to that. He only needs to help and that's that. He doesn't care what happen after it.

Well even after this experience. She still do things her own way and by herself.

EDIT:

after the translation of vol 13 and the part where Accelerator use the gravity force of the Earth. A smart guy from 2ch did some calculation and said that the fire power is enough to destroy the earth but magically the center tower where Aleister leave is still unscathed from it. Well it's not like while his doing it, it would end up destroying the earth. But doing so would make his standing unstable and probably a tsunami their and earthquake here in every place because the core stop spinning.

Last edited by tsunade666; 2010-08-27 at 14:14.
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Old 2010-08-27, 13:50   Link #1300
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
well who's insane person would even bother helping mikoto if her enemy is accelerator and the dark side of the academy city. It's a good thing touma is an ignorant person when it comes to that. He only needs to help and that's that. He doesn't care what happen after it.

Well even after this experience. She still do things her own way and by herself.

EDIT:

after the translation of vol 13 and the part where Accelerator use the gravity force of the Earth. A smart guy from 2ch did some calculation and said that the fire power is enough to destroy the earth but magically the center tower where Aleister leave is still unscathed from it. Well it's not like while his doing it. It would destroy the earth. But doing so would make his standing unstable and probably a tsunami their and earthquake here in every place because the core stop spinning.
No it won't destroy the earth. It's far less than what is needed to break the planet, overcome gravity such that the debries don't clump back together and disperse said debris far enough.
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