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Old 2010-08-05, 11:05   Link #1
monir
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Eden of the East Movie II - Paradise Lost



Animation Production: Production I. G.

Director, Script, and everything else that matters: Kamiyama Kenji

Since we already know all the other detail, I'll spare myself from listing it. The DVD's are out for this movie. This is also the one that supposed to have awesome production value that surpasses the already so awesome overall animation work displayed through out the series and in the first movie. This movie should also conclude this beautiful story.
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Old 2010-08-07, 00:25   Link #2
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For anyone disappointed with the series and doesn't want to watch the whole thing (not me)
http://jphinano.wordpress.com/2010/0...t-in-paradise/
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Old 2010-08-07, 02:48   Link #3
MeoTwister5
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Man I hope this finale ends the series with a bang. The first movie felt like it barely moved anything for the most part.
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Old 2010-08-26, 23:46   Link #4
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Spoiler for Spoiler.:
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Old 2010-08-28, 05:04   Link #5
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Mmh, Movie 2 was something like a letdown for me,

not much suspense and drama, and to many question left vague or total open like the ending.

If watch as a whole i would give the serie a 9 but the last Movie only a 7.

But the music is great as always.
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Old 2010-08-28, 07:26   Link #6
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Can anyone translate what is said about No.7 and No.8, please?
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Old 2010-08-31, 08:30   Link #7
MeoTwister5
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Paradise in jeopardy.

I'm not too sure how people managed to finish the series and found the last movie boring to watch. In fact, while it wasn't as amazing as the series, it returns to the very cerebral approach the series relished in that was very much absent in the first movie.

I found Mononobe's well planned subtle movements in slowly removing the competition extremely intriguing compared to Akira's brilliant if spur-of-the-moment reactions in keeping himself in the game and keeping people safe a very suspenseful and gripping game of cat and mouse between the last two active players in Saizo's cruel game of national revolution. Furthermore there wasn't a dead moment in the entire movie. No scene felt wasted as every character from the mains to the supporting acted and reacted to every bit of activity and news as they attempt to sort out whatever plans Mononobe has and simply trying to assist either side in their plans for the game.

My biggest complaint is probably Mononobe's talk and Ato's revelations at the halfway point of the series. It feels rather anticlimactic to the tension of the first half, but it did manage to put Mononobe's pessimistic views of the citizenry and his more fascist ideologies into perspective. At least this was evened out by Ato's revelation about why he chose Akira to be IX, and just the way he talked to Ato about his own views on money and people in general speaks volumes about just how different a person he is from the rest of the masses that Mononobe describes. In a way Mononobe is right, but Akira still possesses some of the optimism for the future of the people that Mononobe has lost.

While some might complain with Akira again acting the terrorist bit to try and salvage the situation, I think it's missing the point of Akira's last act entirely. Akira took the cudgels of blame again to drive home the point that the country's solutions to it's problems isn't a radical, drastic and newfangled approach to changing the country, but instead tapping into the unused potential that has been inside the fresh and young citizenry of the country that has existed since the moment they stepped into the world.

THIS is the social commentary I think was the message of the story all along, and Ato Saizo helped bring it further into perspective by extrapolating on the point of how the older generations contributed in alienating the young generations due to their strict adherence to aging values that no longer completely work for this new and wired world. This is the reason why the story and Akira in particular had always highlighted the NEETs and brought them to the center stage: to show the rest of Japan the untapped potential in the youth that they had helped drive into their room watching anime and playing eroge all day.

Ato Saizo said it best: The young generations were the losers of the conflict between the old world and the new world. The very people who could have brought back Japan from the edges of economic turmoil were driven into their rooms by the sheer pressure of social conformity and adherence.

Akira became the scapegoat yet again as he had did before. I am very much sure that he had this in mind the previous times he tried because he knew: he was part of the new generation, and unlike some of the old ideas being driven into the minds of the youth, he believed in things very much differently. While the NEETs turtled in their homes, he was given the chance to make these fresh ideas into reality with the 10 billion yen. You could say that he became the figurative representation of the disillusioned youths and NEETs who's heads filled with new ideas to turn lives around yet silently toiled in a strictly conformist society.

Which makes the suggestion that it all came back to the status quo rather unfair. We cannot really for certain say if his message actually caused any change in people in Japan but that's not so much the point as it is the realization that there is INDEED a problem, and the solution lies in those with untapped capacity to cause this much needed change. If there's any status quo being maintained here, it's everybody else.

The amount of money isn't as much meant to actually do something as it is a symbolic challenge. As we might have guessed it's his way of saying "Here's some cash, now go do something for others and yourself". This is quite ironic because by this gesture he did the same thing as Ato. Maybe money won't be enough to change things, but money isn't the point as it is the meaning of him giving everyone 1 yen in e-money. It's a starting point of sorts, and from there, everyone can move forward and do something with their lives and each other. I think this is the best scene of the entire series.

When the mind erasure sound came out again I was telling myself "oh fucking shit here we go again!", and when it comes that it didn't work on Akira I took a big sigh of relief. The man who was almost king fled again into parts unknown for more adventures.

Saki narrated how things did change a little but nothing permanent with the NEETs and public society took hold. Still, it doesn't change the fact that his actions have done something, and based on public reactions and NEETs decision to make something of their lives, his words had at least taken root in the public consciousness even if they aren't being acted upon by everybody. A pebble dropped in the sea starts as a ripple, but if not stopped can become a wave and all that cliche. Six months pass and no big changes have occurred,but it is starting because people know. They've been forced by Akira to deal with the gorilla in the room they've so far refused to see. Now that it's been put into the spotlight and can no longer be conveniently ignored, it's only a matter of time before everyone remembers again and true, drastic action is needed.

She says so herself. Things are changing in places the naked eye cannot see. This is where it all begins.

Whether or not they ever meet again we may never know. I personally believe they will once Akira has done what he needs to do. He did finally meet Ato again, and clearly he still has some work to do for the country. Once he's done with what he needs to do, one of anime's best leading men will have a young lady waiting for him.

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Old 2010-09-01, 00:56   Link #8
Freeter
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I'm not too sure how people managed to finish the series and found the last movie boring to watch.
Simple, because the series actually had some exciting moments and didn't move at a snail's pace like this film did. Even King of Eden was more entertaining despite being less philosophical.

The penultimate confrontation between Akira and Mr. Outside easily sums up my disappointment with this movie. I expected a hard-hitting finale and got a mere lovetap instead. What a waste of a great concept.

Had I known this film would have been such a huge letdown prior to Anime Expo I probably would have given Kamiyama a punch at the panel (and get hauled off by security while proclaiming myself the new Air King ).
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Old 2010-09-02, 06:26   Link #9
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I've noticed that there's a few groups that have subbed Paradise Lost, but I'm wondering which one has a decent translation? Thanks!
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Old 2010-09-02, 20:35   Link #10
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Paradise Down the Tubes

Anime fans are a demanding and fickle bunch. In spite of the fact that most of them don't even pay for what they watch. Or maybe because of it.

I've seen them turn. I've seen hardcore Gunslinger Girl fans spit on Il Teatrino (which actually turned out pretty good). I've seen fanatic Haruhists become Endless H8ters.

And they sure turned on Eden of the East.

In the beginning it was fresh, intriguing, suspenseful, romantic, and exciting. The talk of the town. And now hardly anyone will even bother to watch the ending movie, dismissing it after reading some spoilers.

What went wrong? Well, a number of things went wrong.

First of all the timing. A big part of the excitement of the original series was the inter-episode action: trying to figure out and interpret everything that happened in the previous episode and speculate on what would happen in the next one. A week was the right interval for this. When there were so many months between the series and the movies, no one remembered who the characters were, what their relationships were, what each was trying to accomplish, or why. The movie viewer was immediately lost and bewildered, and quickly no longer even interested.

Secondly, the concepts that were so fresh and exciting initially, were stale and boring a year later, like last year's fashions. Cell phone full of money, amnesia, life-and-death game, cruise missiles, ho hum, did that, what else you got?

Thirdly, they didn't have anything else.
  • Juiz turns out to be a gaggle of receptionists in a truck stop coffee shop. Hardly the same mysterious and omnipotent manipulator of governments and national arsenals.
  • The big bad guy in the end says "I never really did try to blow anything up. I just wanted you guys to make some noise and attract some attention. Oh and also, I don't really want to be in charge of anything anyway. People are too stupid to bother with." Hardly the same would-be destroyer of entire nations.
  • The naked guy with no memory in front of the White House with nothing but a cell phone and a gun, the guy BANG!ing cruise missiles out of the sky with his finger, finally wins the save-the-world game by opening a flea market and giving everyone a penny. Hardly the same Messiah.
  • The great romance fizzles to the point of abject humiliation. She follows him literally around the world and finally fights her way back to see him again. He TOUSLES HER HAIR like she's a good little boy! And then, when she actually sprints after him, all but tackles him, puts him in an armlock, and desperately kisses him, he pulls the old "I'm just going to run down to the corner for a packet of fags. Be right back. I promise. Wait for me." routine, takes off, and is never heard from again. Hardly the same Romeo and Juliet.
Lastly, in lieu of having anything else, they resorted to repeating the same elements over and over to the point of absurdity.
  • Run out of venues? Let's go to America. It's exotic. And we found some real Americans to say the lines. None of the trips to America made any sense in the story framework.
  • Run out of deadly threats? Try another missile attack. The authorities would never actually patch that hack on their deadliest weapons no matter many times it's exploited, would they?
  • Run out of mystery? JOHNNY!
  • Run out of drama and pleasant surprises? Kill a sympathetice character and then bring him back to life. Neither the Doctor nor Pantsu actually died. Did you think they did? No, they didn't. (Who WAS that guy in the Doctor's doorway? We'll never know. It doesn't matter.)
  • Run out of plot? Have him lose his memory again. Except for the last time when it would have been inconvenient for the ending. So, we'll have everybody lose their memories, except that it doesn't work on him this time, because he already lost it two times. It's an immunity thing. Who knew?
And I'm like the biggest fan of this show. Anime fans are a demanding and fickle bunch.
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Old 2010-09-03, 01:23   Link #11
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Man, reading all these negative reviews makes me want to watch the movie less and less
I guess it's just wasted potential.
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Old 2010-09-03, 01:33   Link #12
Freeter
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Man, reading all these negative reviews makes me want to watch the movie less and less
I guess it's just wasted potential.
It is. I want those 90 minutes of my life back.

Just watch the last episode again and imagine a future scenario, I guarantee you it'll be better than this trash.
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Old 2010-09-03, 03:54   Link #13
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Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
What went wrong? Well, a number of things went wrong.

First of all the timing. A big part of the excitement of the original series was the inter-episode action: trying to figure out and interpret everything that happened in the previous episode and speculate on what would happen in the next one. A week was the right interval for this. When there were so many months between the series and the movies, no one remembered who the characters were, what their relationships were, what each was trying to accomplish, or why. The movie viewer was immediately lost and bewildered, and quickly no longer even interested.

Secondly, the concepts that were so fresh and exciting initially, were stale and boring a year later, like last year's fashions. Cell phone full of money, amnesia, life-and-death game, cruise missiles, ho hum, did that, what else you got?
Jeez, are the viewers goldfish to have such a fleeding memory?
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Old 2010-09-03, 05:14   Link #14
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I don't know about everyone else but I really liked the movie, at the very least a hell of a lot more than King of Eden.
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Old 2010-09-03, 07:18   Link #15
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I respect you Meo, and I respect your opinions.

I hear what you're saying. The director is definitely trying to make a point and I think you expressed it very well.

But I think his final point was puerile, or inspiringly naive, if you prefer.

I was impressed when Takizawa pooled all the NEET's input and used it to solve the problem of the incoming cruise missiles.

I was impressed when Takizawa mustered the NEETs to evacuate the target area and save all those lives.

These were real demonstrations of not only the potential of these written-off people, but of actually harnessing them for useful ends by applying some creativity and faith (and coercion and lots of money).

But his final solution was essentially:
  • giving a 7 million dollar national pep talk - "C'mon everybody, let's all just try to be a little nicer to each other." In America, this is known as "Yes, we can!" It's not working.
  • encouraging the NEETs to sell their used video games to each other
  • an economic stimulus package of 1 yen to everybody in the country. Japan has been trying this for decades on a much larger scale with little result.
He was trying to create awareness of the problem. Well, everybody seems to know there's a problem. What's needed is some real solutions.

There is no simple magic bullet that one man can pull out of a hat. But a basket of real actions, no matter how large the basket need be, is infinitely more effective than a collection of good vibes.

Things are changing in places the naked eye cannot see. Imperceptible change sounds a lot like no change. What would be your approach to a patient who was improving in ways that couldn't be detected?

Symbolic challenges are indeed how miracles are worked by great leaders, but they're few and far between. And they're always accompanied by strong concrete actions that are enabled by the spread of the new inspirational mind-set articulated by the leader. And they usually end up creating a new range of problems.

What he's trying to do is create grass-roots support for a concept, an attitude, an outlook. Which is hard-core political work requiring the dedication and hard work of vast amounts of people over a long period of time. A whole lot of talking.

Once he's done what he needs to do, he may have an old lady waiting for him.

P.S. Maybe the bottom line is that the director got to make HIS "phone call to the whole country".
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Old 2010-09-03, 10:37   Link #16
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Originally Posted by drobertbaker View Post
I respect you Meo, and I respect your opinions.

I hear what you're saying. The director is definitely trying to make a point and I think you expressed it very well.

But I think his final point was puerile, or inspiringly naive, if you prefer.

I was impressed when Takizawa pooled all the NEET's input and used it to solve the problem of the incoming cruise missiles.

I was impressed when Takizawa mustered the NEETs to evacuate the target area and save all those lives.

These were real demonstrations of not only the potential of these written-off people, but of actually harnessing them for useful ends by applying some creativity and faith (and coercion and lots of money).

But his final solution was essentially:
  • giving a national pep talk - "C'mon everybody, let's all just try to be a little nicer to each other." In America, this is known as "Yes, we can!" It's not working.
  • encouraging the NEETs to sell their used video games to each other
  • an economic stimulus package of 1 yen to everybody in the country. Japan has been trying this for decades on a much larger scale with little result.
He was trying to create awareness of the problem. Well, everybody seems to know there's a problem. What's needed is some real solutions.

There is no simple magic bullet that one man can pull out a hat. But a basket of real actions, no matter how large the basket need be, is infinitely more effective than a collection of good vibes.

Things are changing in places the naked eye cannot see. Imperceptible change sounds a lot like no change. What would be your approach to a patient who was improving in ways that couldn't be detected?

Symbolic challenges are indeed how miracles are worked by great leaders, but they're few and far between. And they're always accompanied by strong concrete actions that are enabled by the spread of the new inspirational mind-set articulated by the leader. And they usually end up creating a new range of problems.

What he's trying to do is create grass-roots support for a concept, an attitude, an outlook. Which is hard-core political work requiring the dedication and hard work of vast amounts of people over a long period of time. A whole lot of talking.

Once he's done what he needs to do, he may have an old lady waiting for him.

P.S. Maybe the bottom line is that the director got to make HIS "phone call to the whole country".
But the thing with Akira is that, while the action is pretty much perfectly in line with his personality, to me one of the reasons why he decides not to impose his will and his proposed solutions on the country and its people is two-fold.

1. He's attempting to put into focus that, again, strict adherence to specific methods and ideologies is one of the reasons why there is much stagnation in not just the economy of Japan but in the minds and will of its people, specifically the younger generations alienated by the older generations and truned into NEETs. It's an attempt to let the minds and the ideas of the alienated generation to "flow freely" so to speak. He can't propose concrete and working solutions because he is in fact part of this generation, and his beliefs are still mere hypotheses and abstract ideals that have never been tested. This in turn currently what their generation is only capable of because they haven't been able actually put their beliefs into practice because the older generations attempt to stick with old-school methods and traditions forbade them from changing the paradigm of the social structure, to an extent the economic systems, and much less the political landscape.

The NEET generation of which he is a part of cannot propose truly effective solutions because none of their ideas have been tested and implemented. Remember of course that this is precisely the method in which truly effective solutions and conclusions are made, as the scientific method states to test and experiment with the best-made ideas you have until you find the best one you can use. Hypotheses work in the ideal conditions but reality is far from ideal, and to do that you have to give new ideas and new beliefs a chance to be tested and to be used.

So in Akira's case, it's not he can't present solutions, but it's because he and his generation have none. What he then asks for is the benefit of the doubt: that today's generation be given the chance to break out of the stagnating mold and have their time in the spotlight to try and work their own brand of magic to see if the new things they bring to the table will work when the old ways no longer do.

This is itself ironic because previous generations likely did the same thing, that is to break out of the mold and to find a new way to revitalize the nation from a system that is no longer working, only now these very same generations are stagnating by refusing the change themselves. Think of the Meiji Restoration and post-WW2 Japan. It's a vicious cycle that is repeating itself.

2. From that, he's also attempting to find a way out of the vicious cycle by specifically not imposing a singular and unifying will. Instead, the lack of instruction and the dissemination of the money to everyone is Japan is a challenge for the expression of individuality in terms of activities, ideas, plans etc. He indirectly tells everyone to do something with their own lives and the lives of their fellow Japanese in their own way, in the way they think is best. Rather than have everyone adhere to a specific hive mentality, everyone is to strive to find their own way out of this mess and create better lives for themselves and each other.

This is specifically why I think Ato ended the game and pretty much declared Akira the winner. In fact you could say that Mononobe and Akira are like the two opposing sides to the old Ato Saizo. He saw himself in Mononobe, and by his own admission he says that somewhere along the way he lost faith in himself and his fellow man. Akira on the other hand was the side that refused to lose faith in the citizenry and to continue pressing on the ideals of open-mindedness and tolerance to a society hell bent on tradition and strict adherence.

To break that vicious cycle is to give everyone, specifically the NEETs, the freedom to choose their own path and their own beliefs rather than becoming a mindless drone in the collective ant colony. By not insisting on a specific solution he had in mind, he rekindles in people the light of public discourse and experimentation to find better ways and better solutions to society's problems.

Perhaps it's more due to my leanings towards grassroots activism, but I had always believed that everything starts on the bottom while a lot of people think everything can be solved from the top down. To me it's precisely this mindset that you need immediate and sweeping solutions to issues that you realize how faulty your plans are. You start everything so broad and generalized that you miss out on the minute details that may seem small but end up being gargantuan problems in the end.

And in the end it's these small things that affect the people the most. The little people, the average Joes, are the ones who get caught up in the small details the higher ups fail to see in the attempt to change everything in one fell sweep.
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Old 2010-09-03, 21:33   Link #17
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I think the letdown was really that the ending just went over the same ground as the end of the series, did so in a less hard-hitting way, and ultimately the movies took back what promised to be a really striking development (Akira becoming king). Yeah, I can see why that might not have been ideal... but why'd he ask for it in the first place?

Airship came out of nowhere for such a major plot point, and the function used at the climax really wasn't shown prior to that, so it was kind of a deus ex machina.

The reason why everything that was new is now old is because it was done before... in the very same series. Ultimately, it felt like the movies didn't contribute anything to the message that hadn't already been said or shown.

Enjoyable? I thought so, actually. I could watch Takizawa Akira run around doing his thing forever. It's just that I thought this movie would reach new heights for the series, and it didn't. I'd say watch it if you enjoyed the series because you'll probably like it, just temper your expectations.
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Old 2010-09-05, 00:15   Link #18
drobertbaker
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Paradise Revisited

I rewatched the series followed by both movies. What an ordeal!

But I got so much more out of it! Not only did it restore to me the flow of the story and the movies place in it, but I picked up so many more details and things that I just didn't see the 1st time.

This really reinforced to me that changing the original 2nd season to this delayed movie format was the "artistic" kiss of death for this story. Even OVAs with shorter intervals would have been better. Why would they do that? Financial motivations? Once you get their money and herd them into the theatre, who cares the impression they take away?

About half of the 2nd season material was cut out to fit the movies format. That's why we didn't get to see #7 or #8. (My hawkish rewatch actually picked up a #8 cameo right at the end when everybody gets their memory wiped. And the Juiz girls cruising along the highway in their little pink Juizmobile.) That's why the #6 movie maker guy material seemed so out of place and extraneous to the story.

So much subtle stuff. The King Lear material (his cell phone during his speech is even resting on a copy of King Lear), the Home Ministry references, the various government agencies, the opening graphics between the icons, the speeches and references of Takizawa, Mononobe, and Ato, Takizawa's mom's deal, the Juiz girls.

I had to stop many times, do research, go back to other scenes, mull things over. But how many people are going to do that? It's hard work! A common comment on the net is "I really should go back and rewatch... but I'm too lazy."

By the way Meo, now that I understand better what the discussion between Mononobe and Takizawa was actually about, I think the source of our difference of opinion is that I actually agree more with the experienced cynical pragmatism of Mononobe than with the naive grass roots idealism of you and Takizawa!

Again, what a shame that such an amazing, powerful, and unique story had to die such an ignominious death on the cutting room floor.
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Old 2010-09-05, 19:09   Link #19
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I didn't find the film that bad. It was sort of a letdown for a few minutes at the end when the seemingly life-or-death tension was abandoned and it seemed small change was harnessed instead. However, the end solution, which was; cooperatives and communes instead of the traditional hierarchical competitive business model, is one I liked. If Tak had become prime minister, he could have done this on a larger scale, and accomplished other things like getting the u.s. military bases out of japan, and stopping whale/dolphin slaughter, etc. Surely he could have worked with existing social movements to do so--it doesn't have to all be top down, and some problems do immediate, definition results. You can prove ideas if you are willing to look at global, and not just national, results. I'm glad Mononobe lost; he was rather disturbing and empty, hateful.

I guess the scene at the end when he tracks down Mr. Outside (also his father) means he is planning to harness the rest of the old fool's money for good.
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Old 2010-09-05, 23:13   Link #20
MeoTwister5
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I have a question: Does anyone think Mononobe died when Yuki tried to shoot him?
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