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Old 2010-09-03, 23:25   Link #4261
shmaster
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Looking at the preview... I wonder, is Accelerator planning on killing Fuse=KAZAKIRI?
It does solve all the problem surrounding Last Order is Kazakiri is gone for good.
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Old 2010-09-03, 23:30   Link #4262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Looking at the preview... I wonder, is Accelerator planning on killing Fuse=KAZAKIRI?
It does solve all the problem surrounding Last Order is Kazakiri is gone for good.
My theory for the longest time is that he'll take up the burden of supporting Kazakiri himself. Somehow hack into Last Order to give himself administrative rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post

Ch7, Intermission 5: Mikoto and #10777 plans to get onboard the Star of Bethlehem. #10777 suggested using a missile from a nearby base, launch it and use their abilities to latch on to it by using magnetism and fly up there. Mikoto basically said 'screw you, I'm not risking that hitting Touma'.
You know what I found funny about this? It's that Mikoto isn't faze about riding a missile as long as it doesn't hit Touma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
#10777 asked Mikoto about her Gekota phone accessorie, and Mikoto replied she got it with Touma on 9/30. #10777 mutters the regardless it being #10032's necklace or Mikoto, those stationed at Academy City have too much advantage on the home field. #10777 is planning to change her tactics to accomdate for the fact she and Touma are far away for the relationship.
Oh crap, the floodgates are opening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
#10777 received info from the other Misaka clones, that Nikolai is planning a mass bombardment with all of the nuclear missiles Russia have against the Star of Bethlehem, left over from Soviet Russia.

Erm, can you spell 'overkill' ?
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Old 2010-09-03, 23:38   Link #4263
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Looking at the preview... I wonder, is Accelerator planning on killing Fuse=KAZAKIRI?
It does solve all the problem surrounding Last Order is Kazakiri is gone for good.
As it is now, he'd fail if he fought her directly.


Anyway, I hope not....Kazakiri is quite a likeable character.
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Old 2010-09-04, 00:32   Link #4264
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I'm all for such a faceoff. Not all answers have to be good for all. :3
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Old 2010-09-04, 03:18   Link #4265
arkblazer
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personally think that accelerator will go to index like the preview stated.

he will reach her either with kazakiris help or with his own power.

there when he sees shes pendex and all, he will get pissed that shes is being used like LO and save her in a very touma-like manner.

other guess is that he will get another power up when he saves index, probably the ability to use magic
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Old 2010-09-04, 03:32   Link #4266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkblazer View Post
personally think that accelerator will go to index like the preview stated.

he will reach her either with kazakiris help or with his own power.

there when he sees shes pendex and all, he will get pissed that shes is being used like LO and save her in a very touma-like manner.

other guess is that he will get another power up when he saves index, probably the ability to use magic
I can agree with everything except the magic bit.

He's an ESPer and one of the rules is you cn't be both. Only one exception exists, and that is because his powers healing the damage done.

He could learn to prperly Reflect magic though. And even that is a stretch.
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Old 2010-09-04, 03:46   Link #4267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Volume 22 cover was already revealed!!!!


http://www.project-index.net/content...x00760000.html

Features Misaka Worst and Accelerator.
Looks great. Can't wait to see it with a bigger resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post

My comments: wow, every Misaka clone is chasing after Touma (as if that wasn't clear enough back in Vol12 when one clone tried dieting tactics and hid it from others), independant from every other Misaka... I dunno whether to call Touma a lucky B@st@rd or to pity him - a 9,000+ way esper free-for-all combat for his heart is definitely going to be messy xD
I wonder if this also applies to the Misaka Worsts since they have a link with the previous batch of clones.
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Old 2010-09-04, 05:23   Link #4268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Looking at the preview... I wonder, is Accelerator planning on killing Fuse=KAZAKIRI?
It does solve all the problem surrounding Last Order is Kazakiri is gone for good.
Aiwass stated that at his present level Accelerator is no match for FUZE=Kazakiri
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Old 2010-09-04, 08:14   Link #4269
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By "Certain Solution" it seems more to be linked with Touma and/or Index rather than killing Hyuoka.
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Old 2010-09-04, 08:32   Link #4270
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Hi, iīm new around here and suck and this kind of self introduction post(more like is not even the place,xD) well without further ado:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
I can agree with everything except the magic bit.

He's an ESPer and one of the rules is you cn't be both. Only one exception exists, and that is because his powers healing the damage done.

He could learn to prperly Reflect magic though. And even that is a stretch.
Hmm, more or less since the start of the series i have always though that it was strange that Espers, "shouldnīt" use magic, it sounded like some kind of made-on-the-fly rule, that the author introduced to balance both sides and i kind of came to a conclusion after spoiling myself quite a bit (i canīt read japanese so apart from the anime and the already translated novels i just couldnīt resist the urge to see whatīs going a bit further ahead...oh well): What if is not that is not like esper bodies reject magic but on the contrary the have way to much afinity and overload? i mean esper are actually capable of using magic (albeit forsaking their live in the process), the reason why they overload, is probably because their afinity...they need much less "mana"(was it?), that normal humans to use the same spell with the same power, the arrays(?) are quite precise in the amount of mana, kind of power and angel they ask for, so it shouldnīt that strange that the "afinity" doesnīt power the spell but...the excess mana rampages inside their body and since they have no magic training and of course shouldnīt be able to control huge amounts of mana if they donīt even know how to use the basics of magic.
I though of it like this since angel fall, where tsuchimikado paid heavily to use magic but since it truly was no more than a guess i let it slide to the back of my head, but when i came to know about the book of law, "artificial heaven" and "the artificial angel" FUZE=Kazakiri and of course aiwass and aleister, it kind of started to take root in my mind...well how about it?
P.D: sry for the wall of text on my first post,xD
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Old 2010-09-04, 09:06   Link #4271
Chaos2Frozen
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Ahh, the new guy welcome.

The accepted reason why Espers can't use magic is because the AIM field that all Espers produce would violently reject any magic. This is more obvious with the Imaginary Number District that Fuse=Kazakiri creates. In the fight between Vent and Touma, Vent mention that the AIM field produced by her interfers with the normal flow of magic, causing her own spells to react badly with her.
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Old 2010-09-04, 09:16   Link #4272
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no need to say sorry on this wall of text. or rather it's quite short if you visit the other threads. I know a person that post so long that I ended up not reading all of it.

First and foremost about the rule of Esper can't use magic and magicians can't become an esper. Well their origin of power is different to begin with. If you tried to read the previews posto n the 100+ pages of light novel thread. You could probably understand the gist. But heck that's 100+ pages of ranting even I wouldn't read it that much but I did read a 50+ page and super long summaries of zero no tsukaima so I can probably handle a 100 but enough of my rant and onto the point.

the point with different origin of power. Why does their is an esper and magician to begin with? Index said that magician exist because they would like to become like esper or ability user. But that's also kinda in accurate because you can become a magician then after it become an esper like tsuchimikado but after becoming an esper you can't use magic any more. But after that the initial problems are the people who had natural gift. They are the people who the toaruverse called talented people or people with "talents". Talents are natural thing since birth you had that ability. A saint is also a talent and being a natural esper or ability user which is called a rawstone or gemstone is consider a talent. In the whole world their are only 20 saints and about 50 gemstone. And the rest are normal but some had other talents and also called genius. But what about the normals? Well people are easily become envied with people who had power so people turn into different methods to had the same power. Thus esper and magicians are born. Everyone can become a magicians but not everyone can become an esper with power. For esper their are levels from 0 - 6. You can become an esper but doesn't mean you can become level 5 or 6 or even just level 1. Most just ended with level 0. As for people who can't become an esper they turn into different method. Thus magic is born.

The origin of both might be connected on when they start but the source are different. First for esper. Their is this so called personal reality and AIM. Two important role. Personal reality is the ability to make your reality merge on the reality or your illusions become real. But their is a limit to that. Their comes the level and different specs. As for the range of where you can manifest your personal reality their comes the term AIM \ >< / Inside your AIM field you can manifest your personal reality and the ranges of your AIM field are differ from each esper. The Smallest are only skin touch. The best example of that is Accelerator. His AIM field are only few millimeters away or centimeters away from his skin. Then their are esper who had long or big range of AIM field the best example for that is Misaka. Being the strongest long range artillery esper of academy city. She can even change the weather if she wanted. Her huge range of AIM field might also help or fit the criteria why Aleister wants her DNA map to be used for his plan but that's not we're talking about so scratch that for now.
Now the important of point on espers are they didn't borrow power from others but from their own. They change the reality with their own powers. Unlike the magicians.

Well here comes the magician part. Anyone who has enough faith or willpower or maybe intelligence can become a magician. No question ask. Their are certain criteria that needs to be passed before using magics but unlike espers, the magicians are very versatile and had lots of resources so even if this magic doesn't suit you. Their are other ways for you to use magic. Now the main point of magic is their source of power. The source of power for the magicians are "not from this plane" they borrow power from other beings that aren't living on our world. They borrow power from higher being or beings from different world. With the idol theory or using a weapon or an object as a medium of power. One can chant and form magical array and use magic. Though the power that's been borrowed are limited on the medium use or the limit of this worlds mana or other aspects. Take the angels for example. They can materialize but they are limited on the sources this world can provide them. They can't go beyond that. That's why all the angels that show up so far are all been not on their maximum output. The so called GOD. Did create that rule or what ever that is. That's why in angel fall arc Gabriel didn't destroy this world even if he can't because the god doesn't allow it. It's a method to protect the balance of this world.

Now here comes the problem. "AIM disrupts power from different plane" I'm no good ad explaining this one but the AIM field destroy or make it impossible for one to use powers from different world. That's why Aleister goal is the spread the AIM field around the world. Making this world isolated from divine interventions. Me myself can't understand why but as long as espers emits AIM and they tried to use magic. Their heads would explode. Or even if they didn't emit AIM. They are just in a field concentrated with AIM. Just like Vent when he fight Touma in academy city which had a very dense AIM field.

Well we can look it at different point of view. Like for example what Tsuchimikado said Aleister is trying to create an artificial heaven. But that heaven is the imaginary sector or the AIM world. Then in the AIM field exist the artificial angel Fuze=kazakiri and also Aiwass. Aiwass can only manifest himself yet in the field with AIM. So his stuck now in academy city but if Aleister manage to spread the AIM around the world. Then Aiwass can go outside the city.

Pretty much sums that AIM > MAGIC

EDIT:

it looks like while I was typing my long rant chaoz already replied but to add it up. The AIM field that can only harm yet a magician is Fuze=Kazakiri. The AIM she's emitting is pretty dangerous to any magicains. And aside from her the only esper that can do that despite his AIM field is only at skin area but the sheer force of it makes a magician go away and his Accelerator. Etzali doesn't want to go near on Accelerator because of this reason.
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Old 2010-09-04, 09:25   Link #4273
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
.

Pretty much sums that AIM > MAGIC

EDIT:

it looks like while I was typing my long rant chaoz already replied but to add it up. The AIM field that can only harm yet a magician is Fuze=Kazakiri. The AIM she's emitting is pretty dangerous to any magicains. And aside from her the only esper that can do that despite his AIM field is only at skin area but the sheer force of it makes a magician go away and his Accelerator. Etzali doesn't want to go near on Accelerator because of this reason.
Not exactly true......else Gabriel wouldn't have kicked Accel's ass even if he is in Black Wings mode. Or died instantly the moment Hyouka fought it.


It depends on individual level of user.Concentrated enough Telesma (like Angels, artifacts like Curtana Original etc) can kill AIM.
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Old 2010-09-04, 09:41   Link #4274
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.................ah I did say magicians. No ordinary magicians can't enter the academy city after the incident in vol 13. Or rather no one tried to go against them unless they want to be slaughtered mercilessly. Well my fault for not pointing out that strong magicians even if they are broken apart can still fight in the broken field like vent but they are literally broken inside out. Angels aren't affected with this one unless a stronger form of AIM field shows up. The level should be obvious on the level that can go against an christian angel.

EDIT:

now that the black wing mode is mentioned. Anyone notice that accelerator can't use it again? or rather he didn't use it against gabriel or did he use it? it's just that no one mentioned him using it in the battle.
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Old 2010-09-04, 09:59   Link #4275
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
.................ah I did say magicians. No ordinary magicians can't enter the academy city after the incident in vol 13. Or rather no one tried to go against them unless they want to be slaughtered mercilessly. Well my fault for not pointing out that strong magicians even if they are broken apart can still fight in the broken field like vent but they are literally broken inside out. Angels aren't affected with this one unless a stronger form of AIM field shows up. The level should be obvious on the level that can go against an christian angel.

EDIT:

now that the black wing mode is mentioned. Anyone notice that accelerator can't use it again? or rather he didn't use it against gabriel or did he use it? it's just that no one mentioned him using it in the battle.
Yes but Academy is the core of the AIM field after all, the place where Hyouka and Aiwass reside/manifest. So it goes without saying that the place is magician bane. It's like claiming ESPers can assault St Peter's Basillica and live to tell the tale.
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Old 2010-09-04, 10:35   Link #4276
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Hahaha, as i see it the more i try to simplify it the more complex it gets, AIM fields disrupting magic flow is to expected afterall one way or another they are and extensions of the esper power and body of sorts...and in fact you can only expect that both the espers and the magicians firmly believe that magic and esper power canīt coexist, afterall they have only seen blowing up when they use magic from inside out and stuff like that...but fact is the ones that truly can say something accurate about how that works will be aleister(to some degree), aiwass and the angels (i wonīt mention God, since he hasnīt taken part in the fry yet), have said nothing truly valuable to it...what is truly the objective of Aleister in Filling the world with a AIM fields? to create a God? to kill God? to cutoff his interference in the world? for that matter is Aleister even a Esper or is he still a magician?(i remember him saying something about Imagine Breaker evolution being to slow and that he may have to step on the stage personally with a staff in hand).
...Hmm esper training is limited in the story becuase is actually a new science research field, but in some ways is connected and actually similar to magic, you can argue quite a bit about it but well things like Dark Matter that are otherwordly substance elements and the fact that even if just partially accelerator can create interference with magic(that takes power form othewordly beings) is something to take in account, as for personal realities...well a magician ceirtainly needs a medium(arrays and stuff), to bring power form angels, demons and gods but the power is limited to what he can manage and that limit is related (just like esp), to the brain power(a spell that goes haywire can fry the magician brain and nervous system right?), personality, will and well you get the gist of it.
What i wanted more than anything was to point at that magic and esp, are not that different nor totally unrelated (if that where the case one shouldnīt be able to interfere with the other and well it would go against the concept that toumaīs power is related to both and well you probably know more about it than me,xD), i donīt think iīm quite right but nor do i believe iīm totally of the mark, and well i just wanted to share my thoughs, maybe have you help me point my theory in the right direction and well, gottat admit that ranting like this is fun,xD

P.D: Partial knowledge and what you can get with spoilers is quite limited so i may i hope you will excuse me for that...
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Old 2010-09-04, 11:32   Link #4277
Chaos2Frozen
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My belief is that magic and AIM are two completely different type of 'mysterious' energies, but both can create supernatural/occult results. The difference is that magic respond to the laws of mystic while AIM can be measured to some degree, by Science.

If I were to blend abit of real world facts, I would like to point out that a huge percentage of the energy in our Universe is still unexplain or undefine by science yet. In the toaruverse, both Magic and AIM could be a part of this mysterious group of 'Dark Energies' and maybe even the magic that the magicians use could be explain by science if they could study it.

But yeah, my point is that Magic and AIM are not the same type of 'energy', they don't even react well to one another, and there's no rule stating that there is only one type of source responsible for all the supernatural/occult effects.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2010-09-04 at 11:42.
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Old 2010-09-04, 11:37   Link #4278
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightGale View Post
(i remember him saying something about Imagine Breaker evolution being to slow and that he may have to step on the stage personally with a staff in hand).

What i wanted more than anything was to point at that magic and esp, are not that different nor totally unrelated i donīt think iīm quite right but nor do i believe iīm totally of the mark, and well i just wanted to share my thoughs, maybe have you help me point my theory in the right direction and well, gottat admit that ranting like this is fun,xD

It really did happen in the end of vol 10 when Roman catholic church deliberately send apostle cross inside the academy city. That made Aleister to move forward his plan and stop waiting for imagine breaker to mature. He said that it's still pretty unstable. So he push forward the plan on using the imaginary sector.

As for your idea of magic and esper aren't really unrelated. Well the power of esper is being develop inside the academy city and the head director is the strongest magician in history so they maybe a relationship or something. And to add up that Aiwass the one who teach Aleister and also their was a theory of the book of law being a diabolic book of AIM based and not Magic based. So their is certain relationship but that doesn't change the fact yet so far that an esper can't use magic and a magician forcing to use esper abilities are still impossible.
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Old 2010-09-04, 11:55   Link #4279
SuzushinaYuriko
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Then, what about Tsuchimikado? How was he able to turn from a magician to an esper then?
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Old 2010-09-04, 12:15   Link #4280
Cosmic Eagle
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Then, what about Tsuchimikado? How was he able to turn from a magician to an esper then?
Simply because his ESPer ability is to heal himself of the damage done.
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