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Old 2010-09-06, 13:12   Link #25361
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
So ...Fate = Wonder Woman?
Much easier to imagine, especially with her Sonic Mode, lol.
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Old 2010-09-06, 14:11   Link #25362
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Fate has my vote any day. However, I don't think a Lawful Good girl like herself will make a good Batman and I just can imagine her dangling a criminal off a skyscraper to extort information from him. Although she could theoretically let him go and catch him again before he flies even three stories...
Wonder why everyone classifies Fate as lawful good, I always thought of her as neutral good. Although she's never been given a reason to break the law for the greater good.

I guess she could be either, but I see her as wanting to help and reduce the suffering of others taking precedence over abiding by the law. The law just needs to get in the way of her taking in another cute orphan to see the light.
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Old 2010-09-06, 14:12   Link #25363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Wonder why everyone classifies Fate as lawful good, I always thought of her as neutral good. Although she's never been given a reason to break the law for the greater good.
Cuz Nanoha is the one who defied her superiors in StrikerS?
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Old 2010-09-06, 14:19   Link #25364
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Just because one person is under a neutral good alignment, doesn't mean she can be the only one. Albeit, Nanoha is probably more prone to breaking the law than Fate, but I don't think the law is top priority to Fate, either. More so in StrikerS than A's though, I guess.
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Old 2010-09-06, 14:41   Link #25365
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Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Wonder why everyone classifies Fate as lawful good, I always thought of her as neutral good.
And it breaks my mind trying to imagine how anyone can think of her as not being lawful good past season 1.

Seriously.
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Old 2010-09-06, 14:57   Link #25366
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
Fate has my vote any day. However, I don't think a Lawful Good girl like herself will make a good Batman and I just can imagine her dangling a criminal off a skyscraper to extort information from him. Although she could theoretically let him go and catch him again before he flies even three stories...
Maybe in an alternate reality where, before being sent to Earth, Jail attacked Precia to repossess her. And Linith, with the last of her strength, manages to send her and Arf away so they can escape.

That'd give her an additional dose of angst, and she wouldn't meet Nanoha, so she would be even darker. But she'd never have had that heartbreaking rejection from Precia, so it'd turn into a motivation for revenge against bad guys, rather than just wanting to rescue crying kids.
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Old 2010-09-06, 15:14   Link #25367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Wonder why everyone classifies Fate as lawful good, I always thought of her as neutral good. Although she's never been given a reason to break the law for the greater good.

I guess she could be either, but I see her as wanting to help and reduce the suffering of others taking precedence over abiding by the law. The law just needs to get in the way of her taking in another cute orphan to see the light.
Fate was lawful neutral. Then she got converted to lawful good by Nanoha and stayed there ever since. Follows the law, works for the betterment of the citizens, the entire riddle.
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Old 2010-09-06, 15:38   Link #25368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Wonder why everyone classifies Fate as lawful good, I always thought of her as neutral good. Although she's never been given a reason to break the law for the greater good.

I guess she could be either, but I see her as wanting to help and reduce the suffering of others taking precedence over abiding by the law. The law just needs to get in the way of her taking in another cute orphan to see the light.
I think it's her characteristic obedience that makes me think she is lawful. She doesn't display enough rebellious tendencies for me to classify her even as a neutral...
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Old 2010-09-06, 17:48   Link #25369
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Fate was lawful neutral. Then she got converted to lawful good by Nanoha and stayed there ever since. Follows the law, works for the betterment of the citizens, the entire riddle.
Didn't Fate and Nanoha disobey the TSAB in A's when they didn't agree with their ideal regarding Hayate? I don't think Fate's lawful good because she wont go to extreme lengths to abide by it if she deems it wrong.
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Old 2010-09-06, 18:20   Link #25370
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And then, Fate snapped.

Now, there is Twoface.
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Old 2010-09-06, 18:37   Link #25371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
Didn't Fate and Nanoha disobey the TSAB in A's when they didn't agree with their ideal regarding Hayate? I don't think Fate's lawful good because she wont go to extreme lengths to abide by it if she deems it wrong.
No. There were no direct standing orders except for BoD containment. But RF6 actions in end of Strikers in short span between order to stand down but before Cradle lift off WERE disobedience with very thin fig leaf defense of "we really are after Relics". And Fate knew it and agreed with it. So I don't see how she is "more lawful" in Strikers.
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Last edited by al103; 2010-09-06 at 20:38.
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Old 2010-09-06, 19:31   Link #25372
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Hmm, is that so? Then I guess I have no clue what I'm talking about.
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Old 2010-09-06, 19:36   Link #25373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
And then, Fate snapped.

Now, there is Twoface.
Twoface Fate? I guess the other face would be that of Material-L? Wonder how many times she would beat herself up. Would be even funnier if this happened during the time she confronts Jail.

Jail: ...... what are you doing?

Fate/L: I'M KICKING MY OWN ASS! DO YOU MIND?!?
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Old 2010-09-06, 21:19   Link #25374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al103 View Post
No. There were no direct standing orders except for BoD containment. But RF6 actions in end of Strikers in short span between order to stand down but before Cradle lift off WERE disobedience with very thin fig leaf defense of "we really are after Relics". And Fate knew it and agreed with it. So I don't see how she is "more lawful" in Strikers.
...What order to stand down? Have I forgotten something?
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Old 2010-09-06, 23:55   Link #25375
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Old 2010-09-07, 00:02   Link #25376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
...What order to stand down? Have I forgotten something?
Episode 19, 4:40 and further. "They say that they're going to investigate it themselves and are strongly rejecting outside interference."

Then Hayate uses bureaucratic bullshit fig leaf of "we are not investigating JS, we are investigating Relics". And all people present know that it's bureaucratic bullshit fig leaf and they are investigating JS, despite Ground HQ insisting that anyone else should get the hell out of they area of responsibility.

PS. And there was also case when Ground HQ forbidden anti-AMF training as all is under control and there is no need for such measures... then Nanoha, Vita and co trained several units anyway using private and personal connections - that units were core of forces near Cradle and first line of defense in Cranagan.

PPS. Alignment-speaking both that actions are either LE "by the strict letter of law we didn't do anything" or not Lawful actions at all. And I wouldn't call Hayate, Fate or Nanoha LE.
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Old 2010-09-07, 00:08   Link #25377
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Though that may be, Hayate is still Fate's commanding officer during the events of StrikerS, and therefore must follow her orders--and that's exactly what she did, therefore still keeping her in the alignment of Lawful Good.
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Old 2010-09-07, 00:12   Link #25378
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Though that may be, Hayate is still Fate's commanding officer during the events of StrikerS, and therefore must follow her orders--and that's exactly what she did, therefore still keeping her in the alignment of Lawful Good.
Fate is Enforcer. Independent investigator. To call such things bullshit is half of her job description. When she consciously know that by strict rules her command officer is wrong, but still follow her it means that she go against that laws. Also it was not combat situation in both cases and proper action is to make complain to higher authorities about that - that Fate didn't that is also shows that she don't cares about letter of law, but spirit of justice. "(S)he is my commanding officer" defense only work in combat, and even then there are orders that would require to arrest said commander or at least refuse them, in peacetime (and it was officially peacetime) there is much more such orders that should be either refused or at least higher authority should be notified about.
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Old 2010-09-07, 00:21   Link #25379
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ah the perils of command structure

A soldier reviews the code of conduct, the oath he took when he enlisted. 'defend this country from external and internal enemies' he reads up on iraqi atrocities, stands up to his own government and military gets in as much trouble as you can imagine. What alignment is he?

Just saying, they all are following Hayate first and the higher ups second. I don't think this is unique in average command structures.
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Old 2010-09-07, 00:47   Link #25380
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Originally Posted by itanshi1 View Post
Just saying, they all are following Hayate first and the higher ups second. I don't think this is unique in average command structures.
Cop doing unauthorized investigation outside of his area of jurisdiction without proper authorization from local authorities is breach of law even if he is ordered by his superior. Even if he pretends that he "just drink beer and talk with people during short leave" and it would never go to court or even investigation.
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