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Old 2010-09-11, 07:32   Link #1241
Jan-Poo
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I think I've found an evidence that maybe demonstrates without any doubt that Yasu and Shannon were the same person from the beginning:


"ねぇ、ガラシさん~。何でヤスだけは3人部屋じゃないわけですかー"
"Hey, Garashi. Why only Yasu isn't in a 3 persons room?"


I wonder who is Garashi but since she seems to hold the highest authority I suppose it's Maid-Lucifer. Anyway what matters here is that the three "first generation" servants are all holed up in a single room, and they ask why Yasu is the "only one" who isn't in a 3 persons room.

Shannon was supposed to be be in Yasu's room. So why they don't mention Shannon here?


And then there is this sentence:

"ですよねー! 普通、2ぃ2ぃにしますよねぇ?"

Now depending on how it's translated it can make a difference.

if it is: "normally it's 2 and 2". You could presume that in Rokkenjima usually servants are assigned to double rooms. But in this case the odd one wouldn't be Yasu's and Shannon's room, it would be the 3 persons room they are in! Why rather than complaining about Yasu, they don't complain about their own room? Why they would complain that Yasu is in a double, if it is normal to be in a double?


So I think it makes more sense if it is: "normally you'd make 2 and 2".

So it goes like: "We are four servants, it would make more sense if we were split between two double rooms rather than 3 in 1 and 1 in a single".

But then that means there are only 4 servants and not 5.
If there were 5 servants, the split in "2" and "3" wouldn't be anything strange.
The other way you can do it is by "2", "2", "1". But then rather than complaining about Yasu they should have complained that they holed them up in a single room rather than in two.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-09-11 at 07:47.
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Old 2010-09-11, 10:15   Link #1242
Will Wright
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
Epic Cape and Epic Trenchcoat buddy cop story.

One's a formerly incompetent investigator with a chip on his shoulder and a hot, blonde, imaginary waifu.

The other is a past-his-prime ace detective with a newly found heart of gold, out to avenge his lover of questionable gender.

The twist is that they both fell for, and lost, the same person. Do they know? How will it affect their teamwork when it comes to light?

Two loose cannon vigilantes out to get revenge on the blue-haired loli that set them both up with ridiculous feats of deductive reasoning and imaginary sword swinging.

Epic Cape and Epic Trenchcoat, coming to Comikets near you December 2010.
I would seriously pay 500 dollars to see that. With that exact tagline and description.

Quote:
Don't you mean the whodunnit? Because "Shkannon" is not, and never has been, the "how." Except maybe in Double Shkanon.
I take it as howdunnit, not who.

Although Double Shkanon is one way to get around Dine.

"Shannon did all the work for both of them so Kanon was never a servant he just pretended to be one"

so we could get away with saying that Shannon/Kanon is the culprit.

I have a pretty good who and why, but I am fairly sure that they are wrong even if that's the conclusion I arrived at.

Also I'm 90% sure that the why is going to be "LOVEEEEEEEEEEEE MAKES YOU CRAAAAAAAAAAAAZY" or something like that. But I sure hope it isn't.
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Old 2010-09-11, 16:23   Link #1243
Leafsnail
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For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.
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Old 2010-09-11, 17:02   Link #1244
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.
I would assume (if the body is not fake as some suggest) that for that to be possible someone would have to smash her head pretty hard, suggesting a blunt weapon of some type or they'd have accidentally hit her against something that would give a big enough gap to stick a stake in her head.

Of course Gohda's big an burly, but he's not a murderer due to Dine. Therefore that automatically makes the person responsible a certain somebody inside the room or a certain milady outside the room. Either way somebody really hates Beatrice's guts I take it. But as Kyrie says "love can turn into a motive to kill". I think that's because, love being a strong emotion, can turn into hate when it's betrayed and it's possible to take an action you'll regret later from that. Of course that's not just with Romantic love, it's the same with friendships and blood relations too.
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Old 2010-09-11, 17:21   Link #1245
Leafsnail
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Yeah, it'd probably be possible with a hammer, or by, say, slamming someone's head against it. However, neither of these things really work if you're doing it to yourself...

I guess George culprit works fine for that.
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Old 2010-09-11, 18:12   Link #1246
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I think I've found an evidence that maybe demonstrates without any doubt that Yasu and Shannon were the same person from the beginning:


"ねぇ、ガラシさん~。何でヤスだけは3人部屋じゃないわけですかー"
"Hey, Garashi. Why only Yasu isn't in a 3 persons room?"


I wonder who is Garashi but since she seems to hold the highest authority I suppose it's Maid-Lucifer. Anyway what matters here is that the three "first generation" servants are all holed up in a single room, and they ask why Yasu is the "only one" who isn't in a 3 persons room.

Shannon was supposed to be be in Yasu's room. So why they don't mention Shannon here?


And then there is this sentence:

"ですよねー! 普通、2ぃ2ぃにしますよねぇ?"

Now depending on how it's translated it can make a difference.

if it is: "normally it's 2 and 2". You could presume that in Rokkenjima usually servants are assigned to double rooms. But in this case the odd one wouldn't be Yasu's and Shannon's room, it would be the 3 persons room they are in! Why rather than complaining about Yasu, they don't complain about their own room? Why they would complain that Yasu is in a double, if it is normal to be in a double?


So I think it makes more sense if it is: "normally you'd make 2 and 2".

So it goes like: "We are four servants, it would make more sense if we were split between two double rooms rather than 3 in 1 and 1 in a single".

But then that means there are only 4 servants and not 5.
If there were 5 servants, the split in "2" and "3" wouldn't be anything strange.
The other way you can do it is by "2", "2", "1". But then rather than complaining about Yasu they should have complained that they holed them up in a single room rather than in two.
I see...I kinda agree with you because 4 is one possible explanation if there is one room filled with 3 and another 1, but can be made into a pair. There is also 10, with 3-3-3-1 setup, but somehow 10 is just rather big a number imho. However, it's Kinzo who employ them, and you know what they say about Kinzo.

Also, I wonder who Kumazawa gets a room with
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Old 2010-09-11, 19:02   Link #1247
Jan-Poo
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Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.
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Old 2010-09-11, 20:23   Link #1248
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Yeah, it'd probably be possible with a hammer, or by, say, slamming someone's head against it. However, neither of these things really work if you're doing it to yourself...

I guess George culprit works fine for that.
I was thinking of a table leg since George is said to be holding a table leg as a weapon when Battler is holding his hatstand spear in episode 4. Or just the magic of martial arts. But a hammer is fine too.
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Old 2010-09-11, 20:51   Link #1249
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My old theory was that the stakes are actually spearheads (hence the odd shape) which would make them a bit more practical as weapons.
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Old 2010-09-11, 21:05   Link #1250
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If they're really paperweights, I'm not even firmly convinced they're all that sharp.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2010-09-11, 21:08   Link #1251
TehChron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I was thinking of a table leg since George is said to be holding a table leg as a weapon when Battler is holding his hatstand spear in episode 4. Or just the magic of martial arts. But a hammer is fine too.
"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"
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Old 2010-09-11, 21:19   Link #1252
Will Wright
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"
I prefer to think it went like this:

Gohda positioned the stake thing so that it would point to his chest, then he jumped on it and George's weight did the rest.
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Old 2010-09-11, 21:19   Link #1253
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
"Hey Gohda can you hold this stake thing to your chest like so for me?"

"Yes, George-Sama, like this?" *holds pointy end over his chest*

"SPINNING BACKWHEEL FATTY KICK, HII-YAH!"
Actually if he's using a hammer and he's staking Gohda in the chest then it's just like one of those vampire movies.

A FAT YOUNG MAN ON A MISSION! THE BLOOD SUCKING CHEF OF ROKKENJIMA! COMING THIS DECEMBER AT COMIKET
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Old 2010-09-11, 21:23   Link #1254
Leafsnail
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Actually if he's using a hammer and he's staking Gohda in the chest then it's just like one of those vampire movies.

A FAT YOUNG MAN ON A MISSION! THE BLOOD SUCKING CHEF OF ROKKENJIMA! COMING THIS DECEMBER AT COMIKET
I knew the Twilight thing wasn't a coincidence
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Old 2010-09-11, 22:28   Link #1255
Helmet-kun
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I worked on this a bit, but here's my theory:

Spoiler for Piece-Beato Theory:
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Old 2010-09-12, 02:48   Link #1256
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.
Quote:
"ですよねー! 普通、2ぃ2ぃにしますよねぇ?"
There is a slight mistake. The "normally" that line means refers to "common sense", not at "what usually transpired in the Ushiromiya household". 4 makes sense, but so does 10, and any number in (6n-2) formula, because the requirement is that Yasu being the only one not in a 3-persons room and shares her room with none.
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Old 2010-09-12, 03:22   Link #1257
cmos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
For the ep2 Natsuhi's closed room - wouldn't it be quite difficult to smash a stake into your own head like that? I mean, I always assumed it would require a bit of post-mortem smashing to get it in.
Good thing, then, that the stake wasn't smashed in her head like that and just lied nearby. And it's not that hard to shoot yourself in the head and use some simple device to make a weapon disappear after that. Ryu sure loves the tricks from classics.
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Old 2010-09-12, 03:43   Link #1258
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Kumasawa like Gohda and Genji has a room all for herself (as seen in EP5). I guess it's only the fukuin children that are normally placed in double or triple rooms.

As for the servants being in higher number than we have seen, if it's 3-3-3-2... then why they say normally the rooms should contain 2 people each?
If it's 3-2-2-2... then why they say that Yasu is the only one that doesn't stay in a triple room?

The only way it can really make sense is by having 4 fukuin servants in total.
Quote:
"ですよねー! 普通、2ぃ2ぃにしますよねぇ?"
There is a slight mistake. The "normally" that line means refers to "common sense", not at "what usually transpired in the Ushiromiya household". 4 makes sense, but so does 10, and any number in (6n-2) formula, because the requirement is that Yasu being the only one not in a 3-persons room and shares her room with none.
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Old 2010-09-12, 03:50   Link #1259
Judoh
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Originally Posted by cmos View Post
Good thing, then, that the stake wasn't smashed in her head like that and just lied nearby. And it's not that hard to shoot yourself in the head and use some simple device to make a weapon disappear after that. Ryu sure loves the tricks from classics.
We have plenty of red saying there are no suicides and that all deaths are homicides. I know what your referring to by classics, but I don't think he's using that trick just in this one place.

Besides Battler said he imagined the stake fell. He didn't actually see it. Heh... just one more reason why I don't think most of the stakes really even exist.
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Old 2010-09-12, 04:06   Link #1260
cmos
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
We have plenty of red saying there are no suicides and that all deaths are homicides.
There's no such red in ep2. You have no proof at all, that Will's rules apply. Even if they do apply, let's say that it wasn't suicide, because it was Beatrice who killed Shannon, but they just happened to be in the same body. We have "personalities" that count as different people, ep6 confirms it.
I think that Beatrice would do anything to create another "impossible" closed room, especially in fictions.

Quote:
Besides Battler said he imagined the stake fell. He didn't actually see it. Heh... just one more reason why I don't think most of the stakes really even exist.
He clearly narrates it from the first person:
Shannon-chan's corpse was face down in front of the dresser, lying in a sea of blood.
...Because she was face down, I couldn't see her face, but I could imagine even without seeing it.
Nearby, in the sea of blood she lay in, a demon's stake had fallen...
Maybe my heart was completely tired out and dead...
Even though I knew what I was doing was wrong, ...I lifted her head, and checked.
......And, I made sure that my guess was right on the mark.
There was a gaping hole in Shannon-chan's head, and her insides were dripping out.
Not only that, ...you could even see, ...inside her.


Furthermore, Will didn't mention any illusions for this room, so Jessica's corpse doesn't work either.
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