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Old 2010-09-15, 14:48   Link #61
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, but this chapter greatly lends credence to the speculation that Madara was behind the Uzumaki/Whirlpool's destruction. Additionally, I am waiting for word that the Senjuu have been exterminated as well, and then we can say that Madara killed off all of the Rikudou's heirs, trying to create exact situations that in turn create the pawns he needs to fulfill his plans.
I was thinking many chapters ago that it could be that Madara was the one who caused ninja world wars. Now that you write down this new idea, i think it could be that he created these wars in order to have access to these special ninja bloodlines. He can easily steal dead bodies and even living ninjas from the chaos of a battlefield. Of course he didn't create world wars from nothing. Sure there were problems, hatred and mistrust between ninja villages, so Madara just needed to take advantage of this mistrust and create such incidents that would lead to war.
It was supposed that the 9 demons that the 1st hokage distributed between the village would stabilize the world, however despite all that there were 3 ninja wars. Maybe the 1st hokage's plan of a stable world order didn't work because Madara kept causing trouble from the shadows, we know he is the ultimate steath ninja who could have done all this (he could easily steal Minato's son too). I think there might be soon a flashback of how he killed the 1st hokage and caused the 1st ninja world war where the 2nd hokage died. That would explain why did the 1st and 2nd die both at such a young age, why there was war despite the 1st hokage giving away demons for peace and stability.
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Old 2010-09-15, 14:51   Link #62
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The only issue though is where does the Hyuga clan fit?
I call failed fusion...fits about right, and yes that would relate them to the other eye clans.
Quote:
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, but this chapter greatly lends credence to the speculation that Madara was behind the Uzumaki/Whirlpool's destruction. Additionally, I am waiting for word that the Senjuu have been exterminated as well, and then we can say that Madara killed off all of the Rikudou's heirs, trying to create exact situations that in turn create the pawns he needs to fulfill his plans.
Perhaps he wasn't behind the destruction of the village itself (although he seems perfectly capable of black holing the place), but he definitely took advantage of everyone he could. I wouldn't be surprised if his brother was actually genjutsu'd into giving up his eyes for Madara.
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why there was war despite the 1st hokage giving away demons for peace and stability.
Forgive my rudeness but I believe the line is self-explanatory
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Old 2010-09-15, 14:57   Link #63
Haak
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Well shit. So those crackpot theorists that thought Nagato was Naruto's distant relative purely because Nagato had red hair like Kushina, actually turned out to be right...
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:02   Link #64
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lol 600 billion... assuming 1 explosive tag is equal to a stick of dynamite which is .25 kg of tnt (it's probably more from what we've seen but just estimating, not even getting into dynamite is designed with 60% higher output then pure tnt) that's equal to 5+ gigatons of tnt that's 500+ times stronger then the largest hydrogen bomb in the world.

it would destory the world and cause nuclear winter by itself.
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:05   Link #65
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Honestly, this has probably been Madara's best chapter since his little "history lesson", and this has probably been the best chapter overall in quite awhile (best fight since Pain v. Naruto as well). Madara, for the first time ever, actually comes across as the premier villain he is supposed to be (And, he plays his Aizen card so much better than Ai-chan ever did). As he gripped Konan by the neck, somehow starring down on her even as she is hoisted above his head in his one-armed grip, I had literally shivers go up and down my spine. This is what Naruto has needed for oh so many chapters. An honest to god villain.

Pain/Nagato was great, but he was too preachy/too childish; and Sasuke has always been a little too whiny to be taken seriously. Hidan was simply a bloodthirsty loon; Kisame, Kakuzu and Sasori were blowhards; and Deidara was a little to annoying. But, Madara...he's a man with a plan and many will die before he accomplishes his goals...

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lol 600 billion... assuming 1 explosive tag is equal to a stick of dynamite which is .25 kg of tnt (it's probably more from what we've seen but just estimating, not even getting into dynamite is designed with 60% higher output then pure tnt) that's equal to 5+ gigatons of tnt that's 500+ times stronger then the largest hydrogen bomb in the world.

it would destory the world and cause nuclear winter by itself.
They didn't all blow up at once. Konan knew that Madara can only be intangible for 5 minutes at a time (why she knew this is unknown, but considering they have been together for several years, it is not that strange of an occurrence (she also knew that he had to become tangible in order to teleport, which is also not that shocking)). So, she set up a series of billions of bombs (yes, that is an extremely silly amount of bombs) to continuously go off at different times, so Madara would be forced to stay intangible, eventually running out of time and potentially being killed when he was eventually forced to become tangible. It was quite a brilliant plan, to bad she didn't know that Madara had only ever been playing with half a deck .

That being said, I seriously doubt one exploding tag is equivalent to one stick of dynamite...
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:16   Link #66
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Madara's Izanagi isn't that awesome, after all. Using it still cost him an eye. Of course, it's not really a problem since he's got billions (lolol) of them at home but that means he's not invincible.

As for Konan, it's unlikely she survived. Madara had no reason to spare her, and even clearly stated he would kill her as soon as she gave him the information he sought. It's a shame we never saw her without her cloak in the manga, that sketch in the databook looked pretty good.

PS: Nagato looked creepy with his eye open...
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:17   Link #67
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Not too fussed about Nagato being an Uzumaki. So, uh, does that mean Karin is related to the Uzumaki clan as well?
wtf who is karin? lol

and also... why is nagato related to naruto? nagato is part of the senju clan??? im confused! someone please explain in a more detailed and obvious explanation. and who is karin..
btw did konan sit on a desk cutting out 600 million pieces of paper and put a stamp on da paper? . im kidding. anyway 600 billion is somewhat far fetched. she must have a giant allowance.

Quote:
by now we should be able to see the link.
uchiha madara gives part of his power to uzumaki nagato to create rikkudu (rinnegan) nagato.
uchiha itachi gives part of his power to uzumaki naruto, who now already posesses senju body to create rikkudu (rinnegan) naruto.
apparently this must have been itachi final solution to madara just in case his amaterasu trap through sasuke failed. this must mean that itachi knew so much more about madara than he let on.
so for those who are complaining about naruto gaining the rinnegan, i think they would be disappointed because its defintly clear he is going to get it. if not to fight sasuke with it, then it would be necessary to fight a madara with senju and 7 bijuu powers.
it all comes down to:

1. uchiha madara power + uzumaki nagatos potential = rikkudu rinnegan nagato

2. uchiha itachi power + uzumaki naruto(with senju life force) = rikkudu rinnegan naruto
mehbeh itachi just gave naruto a nice crow snack >. im kidding once again...


Quote:
now we know the reason why Tobi said..... "The True Power of the sharingan... my power... Uchiha Madara's Power....

which means that he really did gained Madara's power...

it could be that he is inside Hashirama's body though
theres always the possibility that tobi was just emphasizing that its his(uchiha madara) power. but you will neva know for now

Quote:
I call failed fusion...fits about right, and yes that would relate them to the other eye clans.
when you mean failed fusion.. do you mean that if madara really tried to fuse with the first hokage? does that mean either the first hokage or madara or the combination of the 2 mated with a women and start some new clans? lol
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:19   Link #68
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SO Nagato was related to Naruto. A cousin to his mother perhaps? lol
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:26   Link #69
Shiryuu
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inb4 Madara played Minato too and planned for Naruto's current life. He'll be the 6th path or something since he has that rikudo effect thing.

But then, it'll be revealed that the 4th was a senju too, so Naruto has 2/6 paths already (3 if you count sage mode). He just needs to unlock his own rinnegan, have Sasuke/Kakashi donate their eyes, and whatever the last 2 is.

So in the end it might be 2nd sage of six paths vs 3rd sage of six paths. Madara tries to create his own reality, but Naruto somehow triumphs with his.
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:30   Link #70
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Madara's Izanagi isn't that awesome, after all. Using it still cost him an eye.
Didn't seem like his eye faded like Danzous' did. He's supposed to have the EMS right? Though it certainly only looks like a regular 3 dotted kind...
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:32   Link #71
james0246
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Additionally, all the "complaints" about the Sharingan were answered in this chapter. The Sharingan, which uses the Yin/spiritual power, can shape reality and create form from nothingness. I don't know about you, but that sounds a hell of a lot like Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and (especially) Susano'o. (And the Senjuu were already acknowledged as being strong users of Yang/Physical energy.)

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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Didn't seem like his eye faded like Danzous' did. He's supposed to have the EMS right? Though it certainly only looks like a regular 3 dotted kind...
He said they were still in his illusion, so either the effect hasn't taken its toll on his eye yet (the eyes only permanetly closed once the technique had expired), or mastery of Senjuu and Uchiha means a non-destructive Izanagi.
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:46   Link #72
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Somehow the chapter was a bit unclear:
Where exactly did Konan hide the corpses of her friends? And how did Madara get her to reveal this place and get there immediately?
He hypnotized her with the Sharingan. Yes, they still use it for that.
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:48   Link #73
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Well konan seems to be dead... though maybe people can still hold out hope due to the fact she didn't loose her cloak
So why does tobi keep calling inazagi the Uchiha's forbidden technique when being part senju is a requirement...
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And how did Madara - get there immediately?
He can teleport
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:49   Link #74
azziz
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i never understood why some still wonder if minato(the first hokage grandson)is a senju or not.if his grandfather,the first his a senju so should be the fourht=the same blood even if they don't have the same name(sinse harishima wife was an uzumaki then he must have a bit of uzumaki blood wich could explain why he was so good at fuinjutsu,even able to learn those from his wife's clan).
so let's resume in vol.19 it stated several time both sibling-tsunade and minato-are the 1 hokage grandchild(that's why tsunade had the first necklace)so why you and other discuss it as if it was a theory,no a fact.
i know i must be missing smg obvious so i hope someone will be kind enough to enlighten me
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Old 2010-09-15, 15:58   Link #75
Haak
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Minato isn't the first hokage's grandson. I dunno where you got that from.
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Old 2010-09-15, 16:13   Link #76
Ero-Senn1n
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This chapter instead of answering the questions raised by the last chapter is raising even more questions. Having too many mysteries is becoming annoying.

Madara said that he gave the rinnegan to Nagato, but in this chapter we still don't get the answer.

Madara says that he has both powers, but we don't see him doing anything else than an izanagi which is just better than Danzou's version.

Why was his other sharingan covered, it seems to be just another sharingan eye, why there was a mystery about his other eye if it's nothing special. Or is it special?

How could Madara steal Hashirama's power in a battle and why is he so weak now despite he should be very strong.

Does Madara say that Nagato was the 3rd to have rinnegan? If so who was the 2nd? And if Nagato was the 3rd then it makes no sense that Madara gave him the eyes.

Does Madara say that the rinnegan is born in random members of the Uzumaki clan? This would mean that the rikudo sennin was a member of the Uzumaki clan and that would mean that Senju and Uchiha are descendants of the Uzumaki clan, which makes the Uzumaki clan the most noble of every clan. Then i guess these 2 new clans were born because the chakra of the 10-tails and the sage's unique powers were beyond the characteristics of the Uzumaki clan, so both of sage's sons decided to drop their Uzumaki name and start their own clans. BTW if this is true then it will give new and more flammable fuel to the "Neji was right" discussion thread
But this would explain the sage's necklace on Naruto, because it might be that the kyuubi chakra being part of the original 10-tails chakra is reacting to the bloodline of the sage, that is Uzumaki Naruto, and that manifests in the same necklace of 6th paths that the sage had.

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Well konan seems to be dead... though maybe people can still hold out hope due to the fact she didn't loose her cloak
She was making huge explosions for 10 minutes, there's a small chance that some alliance forces arrive just in time to save her, and guess who has the super-medical skills to cure a lethal wound
I really don't like the idea of Konan dying, because it would be partially Naruto's fault. Also without Konan that small village might fall into chaos again, but with Konan there Naruto had another allied village. It would nice if the 3 big villages this time didn't came for destruction but to help, and saving Konan's life would be a nice thing. I also like the idea of not killing off the people who were on the bad side, but instead having them join the good side, that was one of the best things in DB/DBZ. But here Kishimoto is simply killing of all akatsuki, i really wanted that at least Konan would be an exception...

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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
So why does tobi keep calling inazagi the Uchiha's forbidden technique when being part senju is a requirement...
For perfect Izanagi you need both powers, in that case it's a safe jutsu, just like the sage performed it safely. But Uchiha had only half of the power, the spiritual power, which is imperfect. As we know, in this manga imperfect jutsu is always weaker and needs a sacrifice. For example if Naruto kept using his imperfect rasenshuriken he would have lost his chakra system and thus he would not be able to continue as a ninja. In sage mode he had perfect rasenshuriken, thus he didn't need to sacrifice himself to perform it. So Uchiha have to sacrifice the eye because they don't have the physical half of the power.

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2010-09-15 at 16:24.
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Old 2010-09-15, 16:15   Link #77
HayashiTakara
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Nagato was an Uzumaki? surprising indeed.
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Old 2010-09-15, 16:15   Link #78
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please let konan live a little stab like that can be healed and a genjutsu can always be dispelled. there is still hope and I wont give up until the end of the damn manga or its clear that she did.
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Old 2010-09-15, 16:22   Link #79
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god damnit! konan better live! I liked her! More shocking but also not at the same time... Nagato being part of the Uzumaki clan. Lots of us guess it and were right... now I wonder what is in stored for Naruto's future!
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Old 2010-09-15, 16:27   Link #80
Haak
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Why was his other sharingan covered, it seems to be just another sharingan eye, why there was a mystery about his other eye if it's nothing special. Or is it special?
A very very good Red Herring? (Well it did have quite a lot of us running around for some time)
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