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Old 2004-09-25, 12:00   Link #1
ChainLegacy
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Episode 24 - Man's Table

Just saw the episode, which was recently released by Ani-Kraze.

This was a pretty cool episode, mainly because of Roberto. I think he is a very interesting character and could possibly become one of my favorites. It seems like Tenma is working as an underground doctor for money. I guess Heckel was useful after all.

Hopefully we can see Johan or Lunge again soon. I don't really care for Eva that much, but I think she is being developed well.
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Old 2004-09-25, 19:06   Link #2
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i agree eva is beign developed well right now

right now i am trying to find out why roberto wants to kill anyone who has seen johan........or has that already been explained??
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Old 2004-09-25, 23:20   Link #3
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Originally Posted by f00l
...or has that already been explained??
No, not yet.
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Old 2004-09-26, 01:47   Link #4
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Interesting to see some information about this Roberto fellow... but overall quite a mediocre episode... just like the previous one. Three very annoying characters still continue to meddle with the story.

Deiter continues to be an annoyance...instead of going and staying at a home. What exactly does he think he 's doing with Tenma? I can understand an attachment to Tenma... but staying with him while Tenma hunts after a serial murderer is a bit too much.

For some reason the cherry fellow is hanging around Tenma again. I would've thought he would've understood that Tenma doesn't want to go into business with him. Yes he was treating a criminal in this episode.. but I really doubt Tenma has actually made it his business. He has far more important things to do. The guy should've gone back to stealing precious rugs or robbing homes. Or is he supposed to have some sort of attachment to Tenma as well?

Finally, Eva... (who, from what I see so far, should've been killed by Johan in the first place after she was a witness to him murdering the patient) .. still survives?! Roberto, realizing that she wasn't going to get him through security, should've killed her right there and then. If he is killing people who have seen Johan.. why leave her alive after she's been shot in the leg?

I hope they start giving some answers soon... and soon. This plot is a game between four main parties.. Johan (along with any of his minions), Tenma, Nina, and Lunge (along with the police). As I've said before, I fail to see why characters like Eva, Deiter, the cherry guy, other random crooks, old parents.. are being dragged along. Does this series really need all 80+ of its episodes? I have a hunch that it could've been done in 52 episodes.


Note - Since there were some problems with the previous threads, I'll mention it right here. Me, or anyone else, posing questions about the episode is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, asking the manga readers for spoilers. This is an anime thread, please keep the manga spoilers out.
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Old 2004-09-26, 07:03   Link #5
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He might be doing the underground doctor bit in order to get money.. Though, he probably should have alot after his long time as a top surgeon
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Old 2004-09-26, 14:48   Link #6
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Eva's my favorite character in this series, actually. I hope she continues to play a part throughout.
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Old 2004-09-26, 21:53   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killermonk
Though, he probably should have alot after his long time as a top surgeon
He would have had all of his accounts frozen when he bacame wanted for murder. Whatever he's got on him is all he's got.

avmoghe, I can't even begin to answer your questions without approaching spoilers. The way you ask, it sounds like you want a reply, but If you are resigned to waiting for your answers, then you shouldn't ask the sames questions so incessantly. Rather than take umbrage at those who are only trying to help, you could either keep your thoughts to yourself, or broach them in such a way as to encourage discussion, rather than demand an answer.

Spoiler for avmoghe's answers, no information is divulged:
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Old 2004-09-27, 02:22   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avmoghe
Interesting to see some information about this Roberto fellow... but overall quite a mediocre episode... just like the previous one. Three very annoying characters still continue to meddle with the story.

Deiter continues to be an annoyance...

For some reason the cherry fellow is hanging around Tenma again...
Finally, Eva...
As you can see this series has a HUGE ensemble cast, and it's only going to get bigger. As much as you loathe any mention of the manga, in the later volumes, Urasawa makes flowcharts to show and remind the reader how all the characters are connected in the flow of the story. The same thing is done in 20th Century Boys, too.

From what I've been reading, Monster is going to be 78 eps, and I think this encludes whatever Recap eps (like the one airing next week ("Extra 1") will be mixed in. Yet another filler ep to look forward to, except this will be REAL filler, not the engaging short stories that are scattered throughout Monster and further flesh out the story. I doubt you'd do it, but if you want a quick resolution, just read the manga...well, if you can find it. You'll find more dialogue too not to mention extra scenes that didn't make the anime because of time restraints. Then again, that'd probably be a turn-off. If you rather wait and complain about all the "red herring" eps that come along, then your only torturing yourself with wading through the remaining 54 episodes. I'll applaud your patience though, for that will be a true test for it.

Personally, I watched the first episode of the show, loved it, realized that I had 77 more eps to go and knew that I couldn't wait that long to see the conclusion (over a year and a half). Besides, if Japanese fans have already read the manga and are enjoying the anime version, I'd figure it wouldn't hurt if I did it in a similar fashion - and because of that I'm enjoying it a hell of a lot more too.

Back to the episode, "The Men's Dining Table" was a great ep, by the way. It's always cool when Eva shows up, for she's always a "wild card" character and you don't know what her actions are going to bring about. Dieter, on of my favorite characters, is in great form, much like in "Reunion", when he helped to save the day with Heckel's rug. His interaction with Eva is one of those moments I liked in the manga and now more so in the anime.

I was disappointed with some of the series director's translations of Urasawa's dramatic still shots that are in the manga. When Eva stands there in the wind and with gun-in-hand in the manga (before you find out her true intentions), it's a spine-tingling display of her, but cocked to the side. In the anime it was more orthodox, panning from the ground up, and not encompassing more of her. I'd rather had seen it keep the askew angle, but pan in from the left side, slowing to a stop as they center her. Then again, this is a minor detail, but I think it would have been more dramatic this way. BTW, some other times in the series they messed up Urasawa's panels were:

* In Ep. 22, when Lunge suprises Tenma when he is in the car trying to get away. Instead of showing him slump on the glass, they just should have cut to him pressed on the glass, as if he just materialized there (like some horro movie villian). However, when Lunge was stabbed and loses his cool, the exchange between shots of him and his assailant was priceless.

* In Ep. 16 (I think) when Nina makes her move throughout the mansion that she's taken to to meet with Johan. The scenes where she discovers that all her captors are dead just seemed more chilling in the manga. Especially the hallway shot. ^_^

I'm probably being biased, but f*ck it, I love the manga. The show is still far better produced than some hack director would have done with it. Hell, we might have been subjected to a hacked up, Cliff-notes version that would have catered more to the "Short-Attention-Span-Theater" crowd. That would only made this series a shadow of what it could have been. Again, props to Madhouse for keeping it real.
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Old 2004-09-27, 05:15   Link #9
avmoghe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
He would have had all of his accounts frozen when he bacame wanted for murder. Whatever he's got on him is all he's got.

avmoghe, I can't even begin to answer your questions without approaching spoilers. The way you ask, it sounds like you want a reply, but If you are resigned to waiting for your answers, then you shouldn't ask the sames questions so incessantly. Rather than take umbrage at those who are only trying to help, you could either keep your thoughts to yourself, or broach them in such a way as to encourage discussion, rather than demand an answer.
I would've thought my DIRECT mention of "I dont want spoilers" would've convinced anyone that I really didn't, in fact, want spoilers.

I'll repeat myself - if you can't answer any questions I pose then don't answer. My questions are aimed at people who watch the anime, or people who read the manga who can refer ONLY to what's been shown in the anime. That is the entire POINT of making an episode for each episode and differentiating between Anime and Manga threads.

Exactly which of my questions have been asked "incessantly"? I don't believe I've asked a question more than once or twice in this forum.

At any rate, I'll say it again - If you cant answer anything in an Anime thread without spoilers, ignore it. I personally ask questions that occur to me to see if there was something I missed in an earlier episode which had an explanation to my question. It is NOT a demand of the manga readers for answers.


Quote:
As you can see this series has a HUGE ensemble cast, and it's only going to get bigger. As much as you loathe any mention of the manga, in the later volumes, Urasawa makes flowcharts to show and remind the reader how all the characters are connected in the flow of the story.
I welcome any new members of the cast, in any number, but I do NOT welcome members who hang around for NO reason whatsoever. I have no problems with Deiter or Heckel as characters.... as long as they are left where they SHOULD have been left. Deiter in a foster home..and Heckel going after more priceless rugs.

Instead .. now we have them accompanying a man going after a serial killer?!

This union of characters make about as much sense as Cowboy Bebop's cast coming together. There was absolutely no reason why either Faye or Ed should've been let on the ship.

Of course, the above assumes that no further reasons will be given for Heckel or Deiter being with Tenma. If a valid reason is revealed later, I will retract my complaint.
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Old 2004-09-27, 06:32   Link #10
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Of course, the above assumes that no further reasons will be given for Heckel or Deiter being with Tenma. If a valid reason is revealed later, I will retract my complaint.
How about instead of complaining when things you want answered aren't in the very next episode, you take all of your complaints, save the ones that AREN'T answered in the course of the series, and then making a list when it's over. Because I too am getting sick of "this show isn't instantly gratifying my need to know all the plot points and details."
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Old 2004-09-27, 13:39   Link #11
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LOL... That defeats the very purpose of having a thread about each episode.

Why do you think people MAKE threads about each episode and discuss it instead of waiting for the entire series to end?

Wouldn't it be better to just postpone ALL discussion till the end of the series?

As I said before, if anyone comes across an answer to the questions I have in one of the previous episodes... they are free to answer it. It is perfectly possible that I missed something in the previous episodes that would answer the question.

Just because I post questions about things the show hasn't answered.. thats supposed to make you "sick"? What exactly are you doing on a forum then? Every single series forum works like this.... I direct your attention to the Naruto, FMA, etc forums.

The ONLY difference about this forum is that it has a much smaller number of posters... and a large number of manga readers who already know what is going to happen. If you cannot stand anime viewers asking questions about things that dont make sense given the information so far, then I recommend staying out of the anime threads altogether.
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Old 2004-09-28, 16:34   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
He would have had all of his accounts frozen when he bacame wanted for murder. Whatever he's got on him is all he's got.
Whoops, you're right. Completely forgot about that. Here's my thoughts on why Heckel is sticking around with Tenma- he probably wants to get in on this underground doctor thing; he's just a greedy thief after all, and, eventually, he'll probably develop a long-lived reason to stick with Tenma.

Deiter... Well, he's a young child. Tenma saved him from the hellish life he had been living and is now attached to Tenma. Why didn't Tenma force him to stay at a home? That probably is a valid reason to be confused. I can't put out a completely logical reason as to why Tenma didn't leave him in a place where he would be much more safe, but maybe Tenma just couldn't let him go.
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Old 2004-09-28, 18:48   Link #13
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As for why Tenma keeps Deiter, I think it is to protect him. Remember, Tenma has technically kidnapped Deiter from his legal guardian. There is no evidence that the kid was abused, just what Tenma saw, and that's not exactly going to hold up in court. If Tenma left Deiter somewhere and someone found out who he was he would legally have to be returned to his foster father.
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Old 2004-09-29, 02:20   Link #14
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Originally Posted by avmoghe
Interesting to see some information about this Roberto fellow... but overall quite a mediocre episode... just like the previous one. Three very annoying characters still continue to meddle with the story.

Deiter continues to be an annoyance...instead of going and staying at a home. What exactly does he think he 's doing with Tenma? I can understand an attachment to Tenma... but staying with him while Tenma hunts after a serial murderer is a bit too much.

For some reason the cherry fellow is hanging around Tenma again. I would've thought he would've understood that Tenma doesn't want to go into business with him. Yes he was treating a criminal in this episode.. but I really doubt Tenma has actually made it his business. He has far more important things to do. The guy should've gone back to stealing precious rugs or robbing homes. Or is he supposed to have some sort of attachment to Tenma as well?

Finally, Eva... (who, from what I see so far, should've been killed by Johan in the first place after she was a witness to him murdering the patient) .. still survives?! Roberto, realizing that she wasn't going to get him through security, should've killed her right there and then. If he is killing people who have seen Johan.. why leave her alive after she's been shot in the leg?

I hope they start giving some answers soon... and soon. This plot is a game between four main parties.. Johan (along with any of his minions), Tenma, Nina, and Lunge (along with the police). As I've said before, I fail to see why characters like Eva, Deiter, the cherry guy, other random crooks, old parents.. are being dragged along. Does this series really need all 80+ of its episodes? I have a hunch that it could've been done in 52 episodes.


Note - Since there were some problems with the previous threads, I'll mention it right here. Me, or anyone else, posing questions about the episode is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, asking the manga readers for spoilers. This is an anime thread, please keep the manga spoilers out.
well, a big part of MONSTER is about the side-characters and how well they are developed. You'll get even more side-characters later on, so if you only want something focused on the four "main characters", then you'll likely get more frustrated as the show goes on. It's mostly about all the different people that Tenma and Nina meet during their chase after Johan, and their interactions with those people. There are not that many direct confrontations between the "main characters", and they are far and between...
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Old 2004-09-29, 03:01   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, a big part of MONSTER is about the side-characters and how well they are developed. You'll get even more side-characters later on, so if you only want something focused on the four "main characters", then you'll likely get more frustrated as the show goes on. It's mostly about all the different people that Tenma and Nina meet during their chase after Johan, and their interactions with those people. There are not that many direct confrontations between the "main characters", and they are far and between...
See? avmoghe when you ask questions like that, you're just begging for spoilers.

Spoiler for how manga readers should participate in these threads:
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Old 2004-09-29, 12:07   Link #16
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Originally Posted by Soul Bro Ryu
From what I've been reading, Monster is going to be 78 eps, and I think this encludes whatever Recap eps (like the one airing next week ("Extra 1") will be mixed in. Yet another filler ep to look forward to, except this will be REAL filler, not the engaging short stories that are scattered throughout Monster and further flesh out the story. I doubt you'd do it, but if you want a quick resolution, just read the manga...well, if you can find it. You'll find more dialogue too not to mention extra scenes that didn't make the anime because of time restraints. Then again, that'd probably be a turn-off. If you rather wait and complain about all the "red herring" eps that come along, then your only torturing yourself with wading through the remaining 54 episodes. I'll applaud your patience though, for that will be a true test for it.
The next story arc (Munich) will be multi-episodes, and should please those who want the story to move forward a bit more.
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Old 2004-09-29, 22:20   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, a big part of MONSTER is about the side-characters and how well they are developed. You'll get even more side-characters later on, so if you only want something focused on the four "main characters", then you'll likely get more frustrated as the show goes on. It's mostly about all the different people that Tenma and Nina meet during their chase after Johan, and their interactions with those people. There are not that many direct confrontations between the "main characters", and they are far and between...

Please dont misunderstand what I stated. I said Monster was a game between four parties.. that includes any minions of Johan, people like Wolf, or even people looking for him like the the Baby character, or even Roberto. It also includes any of the police.. Lunge himself, or any other detectives after the Tenma.

I would like to see information on the above people. I dont necessarily need information about the four main people themselves. For example, I had no complaints about the Turkish fire episode, even though it didn't have any direct confrontations between Johan and Nina or Tenma.

This episode too, had a few important details about Roberto ... (who is one of the characters I've mentioned above).. and even some details about Johan himself. Its Heckel, Deiter, and Eva who are my main problems.
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Old 2004-09-29, 22:29   Link #18
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So, basically, you have no faith that the anime will ever address these point you constantly reiterate? Have you ever considered that, yes, maybe there are reasons for the people to be there? And yes, there is a reason why we keep on focusing on Eva?

As I said previously, why not try having a little patience and saving some of your complaints until the end of the show. If you have them then, then I think you'll be justified.

Perhaps Tenma keeps Dieter because he hasn't found a place he feels comfortable just leaving him. Perhaps he enjoys his company, even if it is neither what's best for Dieter or a responsible thing to do. (People aren't always 100% logical or responsible, you know) Perhaps he knows that Dieter would likely end up running away and trying to follow him anyway and feels it will be safer if he can keep an eye on him.

Maybe Tenma isn't doing what you would do. Or what you think he should do. That doesn't make the story bad, though.
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Old 2004-09-29, 22:46   Link #19
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... When have I EVER said I had no faith that the story will address my questions?

I listed my questions to see if anyone else has noticed possible answers in the previous episodes that I have missed.

Dont misunderstand my posts. I never pass judgement on a series until I've seen it in its entirety. Dont interpret them as me saying "this show isn't making sense right now, and it never will".

I have at this point a giant list of questions to which I see no answers... It is my sincere hope that the anime answers them. Every single series will have some unanswered questions while you watch it.. Monster is no exception to that rule. Hell.. look at FMA.
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Old 2004-09-30, 04:59   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musouka
So, basically, you have no faith that the anime will ever address these point you constantly reiterate? Have you ever considered that, yes, maybe there are reasons for the people to be there? And yes, there is a reason why we keep on focusing on Eva?

As I said previously, why not try having a little patience and saving some of your complaints until the end of the show. If you have them then, then I think you'll be justified.

Perhaps Tenma keeps Dieter because he hasn't found a place he feels comfortable just leaving him. Perhaps he enjoys his company, even if it is neither what's best for Dieter or a responsible thing to do. (People aren't always 100% logical or responsible, you know) Perhaps he knows that Dieter would likely end up running away and trying to follow him anyway and feels it will be safer if he can keep an eye on him.

Maybe Tenma isn't doing what you would do. Or what you think he should do. That doesn't make the story bad, though.

He's just trying to create a discussion with the evidence we already have to predict how those questions that are currently unanswered will be answered... There's nothing wrong with that... Is that not one of the main reasons these forums exist? To discuss the series and then collectively attempt to come up with ideas of what will happen next?
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