AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Monogatari Series

View Poll Results: Bakemonogatari - Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 47 40.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 32.76%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 8.62%
7 out of 10 : Good 10 8.62%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 6.90%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.86%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.72%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-09-23, 16:58   Link #41
zato_1one
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
There wasn't much story to begin with. And nobody cared about the story.
I beg to disagree. The last episode greatly raises the curiosity of the relationship between Araragi and Shinobu. And it makes the fan crave for more. Sadly, it can take at least a year before Kizumonogatari air...

The extend of last three episodes does make Shaft looks really bad at time management but it's a great decision nonetheless. I can't imagine how they could pack all those materials in just two TV episodes without upsetting the fan especially novel readers. It would be a disaster.
__________________
zato_1one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-23, 22:45   Link #42
applejuice
I kill you
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon
the whole series has always been and probably always will about Araragi alone.
I strongly disagree. Without Shenjougahara-sama, Bakemonogatari is nothingness. Even though she is excluded in some episodes, she is still there, since she is kami-sama. Still, beside nadeko arc, all had something to do with Shenjougahara always.

Pro tip:

"No-one cares about Arararagi-kun" - Oshino Meme -

About last 3 episodes, they were just additional free-cake for the development of relationship between Urararagi Gomi and his haremz (including little vampire). Nothing bad about them. I was already satisfied with Summer Triangle. :3
__________________
If anyone attacks Shaft
I will be there to defend it to death.
applejuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-24, 06:10   Link #43
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I strongly disagree. Without Shenjougahara-sama, Bakemonogatari is nothingness. Even though she is excluded in some episodes, she is still there, since she is kami-sama. Still, beside nadeko arc, all had something to do with Shenjougahara always.

Pro tip:

"No-one cares about Arararagi-kun" - Oshino Meme -

About last 3 episodes, they were just additional free-cake for the development of relationship between Urararagi Gomi and his haremz (including little vampire). Nothing bad about them. I was already satisfied with Summer Triangle. :3
Like I said, for "Bakemonogatari" you might be right, but for the "Monogatari" series, there is no way. I mean after this she pretty much disappears. But of course with 6 more books about to come out I could be proven entirely wrong. We'll see...we'll see.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-24, 06:28   Link #44
applejuice
I kill you
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
^ No, you got me wrong and I know what you are saying

Shenjougahara is still there even though she disappears. Thus, she is everything.
__________________
If anyone attacks Shaft
I will be there to defend it to death.
applejuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-24, 12:33   Link #45
Haak
Haters Gonna Hate
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
There wasn't much story to begin with. And nobody cared about the story.
The story behind Tsubasa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ And it's beyond me why the story is so special when it's two lines long, not original, episodic, simplistic (the story, not the dialogues) and so many more.
The characters are the story. The characters are the whole point of the story (That and the comedy).
__________________

Last edited by Haak; 2010-09-24 at 12:43.
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-25, 05:22   Link #46
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
^ No, you got me wrong and I know what you are saying

Shenjougahara is still there even though she disappears. Thus, she is everything.
If you are going to be stubborn like that then I don't know what to say. Nisio is probably going to kill her off like every other character he handles anyway.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 01:07   Link #47
applejuice
I kill you
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
If you are going to be stubborn like that then I don't know what to say. Nisio is probably going to kill her off like every other character he handles anyway.
Obviously, someone cannot take a joke, god damn it. >_>

Even if shenjougahara dies, she will still be there. That's the point, she is GODDESS.
__________________
If anyone attacks Shaft
I will be there to defend it to death.
applejuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 07:36   Link #48
zato_1one
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
If you are going to be stubborn like that then I don't know what to say. Nisio is probably going to kill her off like every other character he handles anyway.
Geez... Why are you so stubborn about Hitagi importance? Come on! You gotta admit that without Hitagi, this show wouldn't be this awesome.
__________________
zato_1one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 08:09   Link #49
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Geez... Why are you so stubborn about Hitagi importance? Come on! You gotta admit that without Hitagi, this show wouldn't be this awesome.
She's an important part to the story just like any of the other girls but is by no means non-expandable.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 14:36   Link #50
zato_1one
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
She's an important part to the story just like any of the other girls but is by no means non-expandable.
Yep but she is still the most important.
__________________
zato_1one is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 14:54   Link #51
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Yep but she is still the most important.
.....If that's what you want to think then go ahead. Oh yeah, you also might as well go say you think Endless Eight was also the best thing to come out of anime.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 18:02   Link #52
applejuice
I kill you
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
Quote:
Originally Posted by omimon View Post
.....If that's what you want to think then go ahead. Oh yeah, you also might as well go say you think Endless Eight was also the best thing to come out of anime.
Jesus christ, you are making flame war out of NOTHING; why even Endless Eight coming out of here? It has nothing to do with Shenjougahara-tore what-so-ever. It is so obvious when I say 'HITAGI EXISTS EVEN THOUGH SHE DOESN'T', it isn't serious. If your joke detecter is faulty, you should better off doing internet discussions.

Whether how much you go on about 'hitagi is not important', Bakemonogatari franchise itself does not exist without Hitagi fandom. Remove Hitagi Crab arc from Bake and all those development of Araragi and Shenjougahara towards each other, what is left? Absolutely nothing. You get nothing from Mayoi arc (Hitagi was the one who solved the riddle), you get nothing from Suruga arc (Hitagi was one who defeated devil), you get nothing from Tsubasa arc (Araragi definitely showed his love towards Hitagi and its truthfulness explicitly in this arc). Nadeko arc might stands alone, but since it is already shit, since it does not contain Shenjougahara <- this part is a joke (I'm saying this, since your sarcasm detector seems to be not working).

It's funny that you are saying like you know all the novel materials. Of course, I haven't read it since my Japanese is shit, but I know what they are about. Kizumonogatari does not have shenjougahara, but it is more of prequel anyway. Nise-monogatari is focused on fire-sisters and MWARARARAGI development, but it doesn't change the fact that Araragi chose 'SHENJOUGAHARA' out of all his harem kingdom, thus Hitagi is still important. Only other released series is Nekomonogatari and... that's it. I don't get your basis of 'Hitagi isn't important in other franchise', when there isn't much of sequel release anyway... YET. You automatically know New Suruga and Mayoi arc are most likely have Shenjougahara on side. You also have one to come which is called 'HITAGI END'. Please tell me if I'm wrong, but Shenjougahara is more important than any other characters in Bakemonogatari, beside Araragi and Shinobu.
__________________
If anyone attacks Shaft
I will be there to defend it to death.
applejuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 18:12   Link #53
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
Jesus christ, you are making flame war out of NOTHING; why even Endless Eight coming out of here? It has nothing to do with Shenjougahara-tore what-so-ever. It is so obvious when I say 'HITAGI EXISTS EVEN THOUGH SHE DOESN'T', it isn't serious. If your joke detecter is faulty, you should better off doing internet discussions.

Whether how much you go on about 'hitagi is not important', Bakemonogatari franchise itself does not exist without Hitagi fandom. Remove Hitagi Crab arc from Bake and all those development of Araragi and Shenjougahara towards each other, what is left? Absolutely nothing. You get nothing from Mayoi arc (Hitagi was the one who solved the riddle), you get nothing from Suruga arc (Hitagi was one who defeated devil), you get nothing from Tsubasa arc (Araragi definitely showed his love towards Hitagi and its truthfulness explicitly in this arc). Nadeko arc might stands alone, but since it is already shit, since it does not contain Shenjougahara <- this part is a joke (I'm saying this, since your sarcasm detector seems to be not working).

It's funny that you are saying like you know all the novel materials. Of course, I haven't read it since my Japanese is shit, but I know what they are about. Kizumonogatari does not have shenjougahara, but it is more of prequel anyway. Nise-monogatari is focused on fire-sisters and MWARARARAGI development, but it doesn't change the fact that Araragi chose 'SHENJOUGAHARA' out of all his harem kingdom, thus Hitagi is still important. Only other released series is Nekomonogatari and... that's it. I don't get your basis of 'Hitagi isn't important in other franchise', when there isn't much of sequel release anyway... YET. You automatically know New Suruga and Mayoi arc are most likely have Shenjougahara on side. You also have one to come which is called 'HITAGI END'. Please tell me if I'm wrong, but Shenjougahara is more important than any other characters in Bakemonogatari, beside Araragi and Shinobu.
I still think Hanekawa is more important. Also I realize that everyone has their way of interpreting the series which is why I'm not denying your believes but just saying your evidence is lacking. Like I said already, I admit that since there are 6 more books coming out i could be wrong but since they aren't out I can only work with what we have now. With that being said, within the 6 current books she indeed plays a lacking role compare to Shinobu and Hanekawa. You might say that isn't fair since they are prequels but that's just the way the hand was dealt. Also, you say that without the relationship between Araragi and Hitagi then is nothing left, but then I can also say that without the relationships he has with Shinobu and Hanekawa then there is nothing left either. Also Araragi himself admits that those two are more important to him. Fans have the right to think whatever they want, but characters' own words are unshakable evidence.

Damn it, I feel like one of those Team Edward Team Jacob fangirls....argh.

Last edited by omimon; 2010-09-26 at 18:26.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-09-26, 18:18   Link #54
CrowKenobi
Moderator
*AnimeSuki Site Staff
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: there... just there.
Okay, I gotta step in and stop this before a flame war starts...

Any more from this point forward is off-topic and will be treated as such. If you really need to continue this, take it to PM's.

Thank you.
__________________



CrowKenobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-18, 15:14   Link #55
Akka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
I suppose I'll be burnt at the stake, but well, this thread is made to give opinions, and after seeing the whole serie, I certainly have such an opinion.

Bakemonogatari has some nice cleverness in it, and a very striking artistic direction.
Sadly, that's about anything I felt it actually HAD. The desire to "be artsy" seems to be the only substance.

Despite all the apparent high artistic level, and the extremely weird and dream-like general tone I found that the actual plot was surprisingly predictable and clichée. At the core, it's just some very classical harem anime. Probably in a self-conscious manner, though, considering how often the show attempt to demonstrate that it's aware of it and point the numerous tropes present (the very mediocre and boring hero that nevertheless make every girl fall in love with him ; the archetypes each girl represent ; the "monster of the week" organisation, etc.). But despite being pointed and invoked, all the tropes are being played completely straight, making them no more interesting. Everything was very predictable, nothing really surprised me past the third episode.

The characters have seemingly pleased a lot of people. I found them nearly all completely boring and uninteresting. Hitagi, which seems to be very popular, didn't do me a thing. I actually found her more annoying than anything else. The famous ep12 fell completely flat for me. Not a shred of emotion in it reached me - and I'm usually a very easy target for this. The romance, despite being (overly) detailed and explained and dissected, feel nevertheless coming completely out of the blue and very artificial.
The girl treats it as some kind of schedule, the guy is just the boring usual nice guy without any personnality that follows along passively, and I'm supposed to believe it's a nice love story. Again, all these dysfunctionnements are POINTED by the show, so they're very obviously used on purpose. They still don't feel any more interesting to me, and don't make the love story any more alive or believable.
Be it the characters or the plot, I feel all is "explained" to me, but nothing actually "touched" me. Description without emotion.

The artistic side has the same problems. It's artistic, yes. It's in fact SO artistic it becomes frankly obnoxious and pretentious. Just too much of "hey THIS IS ART !". I'd call it "artistic wanking" if you get my meaning. Little of it actually participate to the story. It just feels all to give it a particular cachet and somehow gets the worth out of it.


All in all, Bakemonogatari felt like a very average serie that thinks itself being much more, and is irritatingly pretentious as a result.
It ends up making me feel the exact opposite of the intended effect : in place of thinking "wow, this has depth when you look at it", it made me feel "how, it wants to feel deep, but it's pretty shallow when you look in it".

I'm still split on between a 5 or a 6. It's definitely good in some departments, but I simply was bored through most of it. I'd put a 6 if I had to judge the work put in it (boring, but really artistic) or a 5 if I had to judge how I just felt seeing it (it's artistic, but cold, lacking any emotional involvement, lacking depth and generally not very interesting).

That's it, sue me.
Akka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-18, 15:29   Link #56
roriconfan
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
Send a message via MSN to roriconfan
^ It's alright man; I felt the same about it too. Seems like we are both not getting the post-modern vibe or the harem parody to like it.
roriconfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-27, 16:25   Link #57
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe, Belgium, Brussels
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
I initially watched Bakemonogatari during its initial airing up to the 7th episode, and just put on hold for various reasons. Thanks to certain persons, I've just resumed and finished it recently.
I had no peculiar expectations since I had no knowledge from the Light Novel, and my "love" for SHAFT is basically closer to a lot of required caution with epilepsy countermeasure at times.

1) Image Quality:
Before anything, I believe it would be better for argument's sake to set the terms back where they belong to:
When I will state animation, it is regarding the way how characters and objects are -moving- on screen, thus the literal definition of the term.
Whereas the Sakuga is the quality of the design, and most likely how consistent it is.
Finally, the "design" itself is including all the "style" poured in.

1.1 Sakuga
I believe there isn't much to say here: the actual quality of this series isn't exactly consistent to say the least. To be a bit more precise: there isn't many details except few instances here and there (when they have a close up of a character).
In general, it is extremely limited when it doesn't involve a discussion between the characters onscreen.

1.2 Animation
This is probably the most flawed point I have with Bakemonogatari: to put it bluntly, there is little to no animation at all.
Behind this seemly exaggerated comment lies an undeniable fact: SHAFT didn't do many efforts in that department, and it noticeable from start to finish. Numerous distance still shots, absence of movements, characters talking with only their lips moving etc.
I wasn't surprised by it first, but it became apparent the series was way too often a blatant slide show, which became the epitome of the worst kind of animation possible with Episode 10: static images while the voice actors were doing their job.

How on earth is it even possible to air such kind of farce? It doesn't require to be in 60 fps whatsoever. I wouldn't even rant that much if they recycled some footage. However, just putting a slideshow there was beyond what you can call "budget saving".

Of course, it would be unfair to consider this episode as a reprensation of the animation for Bakemonogatari. However, it has to be noted that SHAFT used tons of gimmicks to avoid the so feared animated transitions whatsoever: whereas we have "design" changing around, there are often way too many blunt color screen (which I had to dub it as "unlimited color still screens works" at some point), or camera pan being way too far from the characters in order to minimize the details displayed.
I do not call that "animation" where the only thing moving are the background objects in the scenery for "style purpose" (some grid moving while characters are discussing in the... park?)

1.3 Design
Alright, we all know that SHAFT staff has a very peculiar take for visual design. Some call that art, others may call that some random stuff. And I'm part of the latter: whereas I can see why Shinbo decided to show some things in a certain way, the rest (which is...at least 90%) just doesn't make sense within the context and becomes outright distracting.
Indeed, my main gripe was the fact they decided to blend... IRL/photographic elements. That may be exotic first, but isn't any better than a very badly blended 3D CG in an anime.

Of course, this style wasn't the only unique visual aspect: there were odd transitions where the characters were complitely changed with some random cartoon style. Well, I can see that kind of stuff working in a -slapstick comedy- such like Seto no Hanayome (instances where Nagasumi design is similar to Hokuto no Ken), but in a series that is more focalised on the tsukkomi and occultism/fantasy with its lion share of characters interactions, I see no damn reason for this to happen, especially that it is sometimes hard to wonder if it wasn't a ploy to save even more budget.

Finally, a bit minor but still annoying for me was Shinbou's penchant for delivering a show that may lead people into epileptic seizure. Exaggeration aside, the choice of colors is often... doubtful or completely random (yes, I'm talking about Kanbaru beating the pulp out of Koyomi in the last episode of her arc).


In short
As you can see, I was hardly impressed by the way how SHAFT made the visuals for this series. Granted, it is obvious that SHAFT style wouldn't suit everyone. However, I believe there are times when this style works and there are others when it just doesn't. I wasn't really bothered by that in Maria Holic, nor with Negima?!, in fact I thought a good portion of that was clever. Furthermore, SHAFT proved to be proficient without this madness (the recent OVA for the Negima franchise), so there isn't really any justification for that.
That personal bias aside, the core issue here is rather how the animation and the quality in general were really subpar. I have no idea if it is part of a budget saving catastrophe plan or the so called "style", but regardless of the origin of that, it just makes the show far from smooth.

It is a shame because the opening (especially Nadeko's) are in a complete different league. Color me puzzled by this very weird direction.
5/10


2) Sound Quality:

2.1 Voice Actors
In contrast, this is probably the strongest point of Bakemonogatari: the seiyuu definitely made the characters lively despite they weren't really active on screen.
Kamiya certainly delivered the guy who can't help but be stuck in the tsukkomi role.
Saitou was difficult to recognize (well for me anyway, especially if you were to compare with her other roles, such like Louise (Gundam 00) or Subaru (Nanoha Strikers)) and she surely pulled a subtle voice for Hitagi, although I would argue that her voice is a tad too "kuudere" while some situation could have been a bit better with some slight warm side.
The other characters don't have any peculiar fault either: the voice actors managed to pull out their quirks very well.

2.2 Opening / Ending
Very good songs all around (except perhaps Kaerimichi), it was nice to have different styles for all of the characters, though I still have hard time to relate Staple Stable with Hitagi

2.3 BGM
They don't strike particularly awesome, and it is getting a bit old at some point (notably 1-2 of them being looped several time in a row for a long discussion). Nevertheless, they are suitable for the mood. Not inspiring, but definitely not subpar though.

In short
Definitely the notable aspect of this series: the characters' wits are certainly on spot and nothing that go along with the voice acting is off in that regard.
9/10


3) Script:
The meat of the series, yet not exactly something I was totally satisfied, explained below.

3.1 Characters:
As the very basis of the series, the characters in Bakemonogatari offers a wide array of personalities and oddities (both personality and literally), that don't fail to be entertaining.
There is nothing really spectacular in term of their background nor their traits, as the interactions themselves are the most interesting point of the story.

However, this quality is also a fault in my eyes:
Due to this kind of presentation, the characters aren't exactly deep in that retrospect. Surely, they aren't exactly passive, but they are dictated by the plot to the point there isn't much to say about them. This is really obvious when the plot makes a transition between 2 arcs: aside of Hitagi, each other heroines got their lime light reduced to the strict minimum as if the said arc didn't really had any impact.
Of course, they are still present (Kanbaru is an obvious evidence of that, due to her presence for Nadeko's arc), but they aren't exactly blend well with the said ongoing arc.
Even Hitagi herself is prone to be shown as a character roaming around, not really actively present in the plot.

Thus, the characters serve as a mere stage for a "oddity story", but past this point, they aren't actively involved as a whole afterwards. I will explain that issue later with the story progression paragraph, but the characters are unfortunately not pushed to their utmost potential.

Now, if I were to discuss about the characters individually, there isn't much to say. As stated above, the characters don't have any deep backstory whatsoever, and their traits aren't far from your usual cliché: Hitagi is the "kuudere" with a special tendancy of verbal abuse, Mayoi is the genki loli, Kanbaru is the sport girl with a little yuri twist, Nadeko is your typical little sister (can't say otherwise, no matter my bias towards her).

Now, as for the interaction, there is one that still disappointed me in the lot: Hitagi and Koyomi.
They make a great pair, entertaining wise. However, in a romance aspect, it is plainly... dull. I got an habit to check out most series of a given season with some romance, but Bakemonogatari is definitely not something that would earn the "best romance of 2009" at all.
The issue is that the relationship between Hitagi and Koyomi isn't really developed: yes we know they are going out, yes they declared they love each other... then what?
It isn't past this point. Of course, there is no need for an outright kiss scene to demonstrate they are in love (some series proved that), however... the scenes are definitely disjointed, the mood isn't there and there isn't much convincing "love" between the two. Even if Hitagi still has issue to express herself, it isn't really convincing when both of them only act as a couple when the said plot dictates there is an occasion for that (Episode 12). Of course, I won't deny it: there were subtle comments from Hitagi that obviously had a "caring" weight, but that's it.


3.2 Story progression

As I was explaining above, the most evident point of this kind of storytelling is that you don't see a direct aftermath or consequence of a given arc. As result, it is difficult to see a sense of "progression" while the situation before the emerging oddity isn't any different than how the character's behavior is later on. There isn't any specific "character development". Of course, I didn't expect Hitagi to go deredere after the crab arc. However, I can't help but be underwhelmed by the fact the characters aren't really going forwards, but stay stagnant.
I guess if I consider Bakemonogatari as some sort of slice of life, that issue would be cleared perhaps.

Because of this, Bakemonogatari looked like an extended "monster of the week" kind of show. Yes, it is yet an exaggeration, but it gives you the idea behind that: you have successive oddities popping here and there, which allow some issues to be explored from the characters.
But past this point, it is just not blended as a single story.
The main plot may not be prone for this, but the characters' implication could have fixed that I think (hence why I insisted a lot on the lack of consequence of an arc).

Now, if I were to point the real issue I had with the plot, be it specifically or in general: it was Tsubasa's arc.
In short, Tsubasa's issue wasn't fixed a single bit... there is no tangible point that will prevent Tsubasa to have yet another stress surge. Therefore, I just cannot consider it as a conclusive end as Shinobu will have to take action again to stop Kuroi Tsubasa.

Some people may argue that Koyomi states clearly he loves Hitagi in front of her... but that doesn't change the issue at all. In fact, it isn't like Tsubasa didn't know about that and she even helped him regarding Hitagi. Thus the situation is back to square one: Tsubasa knows Koyomi loves Hitagi and vice versa, Tsubasa still loves him, and I heard there is no way for her to be free from her family issue before she is done with school.
So where will she be able to go ahead without that feline form lurking deep inside her heart?
Proof is that Kuroi Tsubasa didn't disappear out of the thin air: Shinobu had to take measure only because Koyomi summoned her at the very critical part.

And speaking of which, this is yet another issue I have with Bakemonogatari: Shinobu, period.
In fact, I only see her as a "super plot device" which barely explains the origin of Koyomi's vampire nature. But past this point, I know nothing. So, we know she is a vampire and she has a connection with Koyomi, okay.
What's next though?
I just can't help but feel cheated by this ending: not only Tsubasa is still stuck with her stressful metamophosis (no pun intended), we have a character that was as noticeable as some random furniture from Oshino's place, suddenly becoming the "resolution" of a full fledged arc of 4 episodes no less (I don't consider Episode 12 as part of it so heh).

Of course, I heard about Kizumonogatari, but this is no excuse for such situation: I didn't expect any thorough narration or flashback about Shinobu. However, they ought to explain at least the headlines of her past and what she did with Koyomi (which was suggested in a chaotic way in the intro of Episode 1).
Why do we have to wait for a prequel story in order to understand the "role" of a character in the present story? That doesn't make sense whatsoever: they had the opportunity to set her backstory a little bit without going through the finest details. But they didn't and so, we got a vampire appearing from a shadow, sealing the deal and... sayonara.
Talk about a forced ending.


In short
As being the main dish, the script of Bakemonogatari didn't really wow me a single bit. The characters were definitely fun to watch, but past this point, the plot itself didn't go as far as it could, and thus, it fell rather flat in the end.
6/10



Conclusion
Serving some colorful characters in a compelling atmosphere, the appealing aspect of Bakemonogatari was however not to my taste due to the erratic style done by Shinbou. Suffice to say, while the plot was of course the point of the series, it however couldn't exploit the full potential of the setup and the characters, rendering the whole franchise into a very stoic tale.

It wasn't a mediocre or outstanding show in my books, and this experience was both positive and negative in all aspects.

As such, I give the following score for this series:
6/10 - Average


This "essay" is of course my only opinion, and I don't pretend to get an appreciation more worthy than anyone else's.
Klashikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-25, 18:49   Link #58
Adanadhel
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Curitiba, Paraná, Brazil
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to Adanadhel Send a message via Yahoo to Adanadhel
Thumbs up Must see it!;D

After a long hiatus (2 and a half years) without watching animes I've come across several good surprises during these past 3 months watching as many of them as possible. (And some really bad surprises as well, such as Vampire Knight and High School of the Dead).

From the same studio of Baccano!, Durarara!!, FMA, R.O.D. TV and Shiki and from the same writer of Katanagatari comes the rare jewel, Bakemonogatari.

The story is quite simple, actually. It goes on something like this: Koyomi Araragi is a young boy with a fast healing ability who gets involved with 5 girls that are being possessed/disturbed by spirits and ends up lending a hand to them helped by Meme Oshino.

From this plot summary one would think that this is probably an average anime with a dull story. Don't be deceived by it. The way the individual stories are developed is unique in every sense. From the supernatural to the inner aspect everything is minutely explored to deliver a powerful blow in your mind.

What impressed me the most on Bakemonogatari (and what made so many people despise it) were the incredibly rich visual complements, the hard-to-understand and long dialogues and, specially, Senjougahara. Her independence, pro-activeness, irony, sarcasm and seldom cuteness turned her into my favorite anime character. The best tsundere I've seen so far!

The other characters are amazing as well, with a very interesting background. The character development doesn't follow your normal standards here. It actually requires a bit of effort to relate their reactions to the entities that are disturbing them and the way those conflicts are solved. Such complexity makes this series a one of a kind in times of a total lack of creativity. Isin Nisio has a witty writing style and the adaptation to the screens was masterfully done, as well.

For those complaining that Araragi, Meme and Shinobu had little development they'll have their share in Kizumonogatari ;D

There is a little bit of fan service on it, but, most of times it goes unnoticed causing no hindrances to the overall enjoyment.

As mentioned before, the visual part of this anime is wonderful. It's very original and complex. The blending of art, situation and atmosphere in this series is something you probably won't find elsewhere. Also, the music is never off and the openings are something else, again an intricate blending work.

Bakemonogatari is the kind of show that, most of times, will divide viewers into haters or lovers. You have to be prepared for a very unique experience if you want to watch it. It's one hell of a trip, but it's well worth your time!

Story: 9/10
Art: 10/10
Sound: 10/10
Characters: 9/10
Enjoyment: 10/10
Overall: 10/10
Adanadhel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-27, 04:33   Link #59
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Crap. This super long review post written for haters got pre-empted by another review in what I thought was close to a necro-thread. Anyway, some context then. I used to be one of those haters, despite being a Shaft and eventually a Nishio fan. That was indeed on account of the seemingly shallow plot which made the series seem like just a (poor) romance between Koyomi and Hitagi, but rewatching it and actually seeing the ending has opened up the story a lot for me. The original post follows:


...Soooo...caught the last two episodes of this a few days ago along with a complete rewatch after checking to see if the Blu-rays were finally completed. And quite surprisingly, a complete turnaround for me. Some of the best parts were not actually as great as I remembered them, but my issues with this show's 'bad' parts practically completed disappeared and by now I am a very happy camper. I will probably go through this series again even once qIIq's 1080p batch releases the last volume.

Back throughout my post history you can probably find quite a few comments complaining about the forced and pandering 'romance' of this series and the lack of substance of the characters and their conflicts in general. For all the people who complained about similar things, I sincerely recommend a complete rewatch (with actual quality by now, and none of those terrible delays anymore) as the new perspective it offers might be extremely refreshing.

For one thing, throughout this show's entire actual airing I was quite worked up over the seeming emotional pandering this series brought forth with Koyomi x Hitagi's romantic developments, stirred up further by Senjougahara's rabid fanbase. Going through this series again, I was able to let all of that go and realize that despite what the fanbase said, Senjougahara wasn't the total focus of what this show had to offer, which led me to not only a greater appreciation of all the other characters, but even Hitagi herself. The essential point which came clearly to me this time is that Araragi is more than a perverted and desperate stand-in for the audience, that the focus of this series really is his character development, and that in that context, Senjougahara's relationship with him really is just a single part of the overall picture. With this elephant out of the room, I was finally able to take in the depth of this series in its totality.

People who deride this show's characters as shallow or caricatures haven't given themselves a chance at really looking at them. Throughout the entire series, two major themes are consistently brought up for the heroines, and I think each of them is handled fairly poignantly. The major theme is family, and the secondary one is love. Araragi is then uniquely separated from them as it is interestingly revealed that he has a comparatively perfect family, and all his weaknesses and failures emerge from his own doing. For Araragi himself, the blessings of family/love are revealed to be minor things, in comparison to his deeply ingrained sense of debt/duty and self-sacrifice.

First, you can see what I mean with the heroines. The emotion lurking behind Hitagi and Mayoi's respective separation from their mothers is real and palpable. Kanbaru and Nadeko are united in loneliness, in empty families and unfriendly peers causing love and admiration to be channeled powerfully elsewhere. Hanekawa's estrangement from her family, most similar to Araragi's feelings, manifests itself in a suppressed passiveness we can each recognize. And as she tragically allows her romantic feelings to be swallowed into that same abyss, Hitagi sweeps Kiyomi away from failure and self-sacrifice with a wish about rebuilding her heart and walking step by step forwards that anyone must admit is heartfelt and beautiful. They are each on their own fully worthy characters.

But, even then again this series is really about Araragi. Beyond that, it is not even about Araragi's relationship strictly with humans, but with monsters. From the same moment he meets and offers salvation to Hitagi, also begins the slow rift that separates him and Oshino. Oshino, who is Araragi's key to meddling in the spirit world as something just barely more than human, also acts throughout the course of the series as the answer to every question, the solver of Araragi's dilemmas. He is the cage of glass which enables this series' very existence. Through Mayoi, to Kanbaru, to Nadeko, however, Araragi is progressively both taught that for spirits and humans, there are no perfect endings, and left further and further alone in his interferences with them. As Koyomi's compulsive sense of self-sacrifice drives him further despite these warnings, his shield finally abandons him, not only in a bid to grant him self-sufficiency, but also to teach him to take responsibility for his own actions/wishes. In this manner, Koyomi is left alone to bear the two debts he himself chose as life burdens: Hanekawa's hidden monster and the shadow within his shadow Shinobu. Now unable to abandon them, Araragi can never be fully human.

The end sets the stage in such a manner. Hitagi, who has only her heart to offer to help him back to humanity, gains a fragile beauty. She represents love, reconciliation with her family; her thematic tie to the realm of man is set in place in the penultimate episode. Koyomi, however, is bound--dangling in the abyss of monsters, unable to turn away from it. At the end. only monsters are left to help him; there is a faint sense he will be lost to them. As he pedals away, Hitagi at his side, in this story's first and maybe last major gathering of characters (the gathering of those who knew Oshino), this series' ending is bittersweet, transient. As the series ends, we are left with the quiet question: is this the end of Araragi's Bakemonogatari, or the unfortunate beginning?


So anyway, as for the technical adaptation itself. Through a second viewing, I came to realize that some of the show's outstanding elements were less than I believed they were. For example, Nadeko's OP loses a bit of it transfixing power after around the 20th viewing; and despite the ED being excellent, the lyrics emerge pretty shallow even after the first three lines are taken into consideration upon deeper reflection upon the story. Episode 12's romantic dialogue loses some feeling when you look at the lack of substance of Araragi's responses; gimmick gags like the gaijin 4koma lose their humour after the joke is recognized; and on a general level, some of the weird stylisms (live action, cartoon faces, etc.) become established as firmly functional, not artistic or captivating. Despite the delays and clear overall effort, it is also somewhat disappointing that even the final version of Bakemonogatari still possesses some of the same animation weaknesses of Shaft's general output. That's in no way to say it's all bad however; on that same note of Shaft mainstays, the characteristic masterful sound direction (both music and voice acting) and unparalleled capacity for fanservicey perversion remain one of the clearest manifestations of Shaft's true potential. In the end Bakemonogatari might not be a true masterpiece, though it contains many inspired pieces individually. However, the full force of the source material was certainly masterfully communicated, so I must also nonetheless call it in total nothing less than brilliant.

To conclude: as someone who has been surprised again and again by an affinity for Nishio Ishin's materials, I am quite pleased that my impression of Bakemonogatari has undergone revision. The widened scope the ending suddenly gave the story mean the prequel/sequels stand to be truly interesting; in the meantime I can also celebrate that my favourite studio has finally put out a genuinely 'complete package', for the first time for me besides their slice of life series. I will uncharacteristically get into this ranking/judging trend to make note of the two best characters (1 - Nadeko for mindcrushing moe and 2 - Hachikuji for joyful hilarity) but skip out on numerically 'scoring' this series as it is really not something I believe in. In any case, I will close on the note of hoping that anyone who watched this with either the style, the weak 'plot' (as the above poster said, at first impression a 'ghost of the week defeated by deus ex Oshino while Araragi builds a harem of blatant cliches and moe tripe' story), or Senjougahara Hitagi worship blinding them decides to revisit Bakemonogatari in time to enjoy the prequel/sequel. As I learned personally, there might be quite a bit more there than there seemed to be .
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-05-21, 08:20   Link #60
ViewtifulAlchemist
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
First impression off episode 1: I figure this series sole purpose was to irritate the hell out of me with the constant scene shifts and the drawn out dialogue that basically went no where.

Impression at the end of Hitagi Crab Arc: After getting over my OCD-ish nature of trying to read ever single onscreen text and just saying **** it, just letting the show flow naturally and realizing all that banter and dialogue did hold some weight in the end and mattered for the conclusion of Hitagi's personal drama the show finally "clicked" with me.

Snail to Snake Arc: Now that I know how this rolls I was all aboard. I also seem to be slow to notice this was some sort of pseudo-harem anime but the Suruga introduction chick just sealed the deal (was more into the series form a supernatural taglines). Nadeko had the weakest story but by far one of the most interesting OPs.

Cat Arc/Overall: Tsubasa secret revelation was no surprise by this point considering the nature of these type of shows. The story overall of the series wasn't really that fantastic but it was interesting in how the dialogue was used. Coming off action heavy anime series and then watching this series was kind of refreshing in a way. I was disappointed in how Shinobu was used to just clutch out a good ending but I still like the series overall and looking forward to seeing how her and Araragi meet via the upcoming Kizumonogatari.

8/10
__________________

Sig by Jze0
ViewtifulAlchemist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.