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Old 2008-10-24, 16:19   Link #2141
Westlo
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Originally Posted by rei_lied View Post
I wonder who's more popular Ranka or Sheryl????
It's not really a question of who's more popular, it's more like how much more popular is Sheryl than Ranka.

Even 2ch which I'm positive most people at the start of the series would've thought Ranka would be more popular on supports Sheryl more by far. 800+ votes to 500 in a poll and the Ranka hate threads are far more numerous than Sheryl's.
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Old 2010-09-27, 09:32   Link #2142
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Originally Posted by moncikoma View Post
i think alto end up choosing both...a harem ending...
because last time he said that u are both my wings rite?
I agree. I think the thing with Alto having Sheryl's ear-ring makes a 3-way "telepathic" bond between the main characters (the other two having v-type infection), or that is how i read the intent anyway after rewatching. I doubt if they will change this for the movie. I definitely think they will work hard on more development for Ranka.
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Old 2010-09-27, 09:42   Link #2143
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Er... But Alto and Ranka don't have anything linking them together... Don't tell me Ranka has to go through Sheryl everytime she wants to spiritually connect with Alto?
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Old 2010-09-27, 09:47   Link #2144
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Originally Posted by KaoruLia View Post
Er... But Alto and Ranka don't have anything linking them together... Don't tell me Ranka has to go through Sheryl everytime she wants to spiritually connect with Alto?
Ranka and Sheryl both have the V-type power. The Fold Quartz ear-ring links to any v-type, it's not Sheryl-specific (why would it be?). Look at Ep 7 where Alto has the first ear-ring and hears BOTH girls singing (he specifically mentions the ep 7 event in a later ep - the balcony singing scene). And note the ep 25 scene where all 3 seem to be floating in space. That scene was BS but it corroborates a 3 way link.

Last edited by user112168; 2010-09-27 at 10:08.
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Old 2010-09-27, 10:39   Link #2145
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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Ranka and Sheryl both have the V-type power. The Fold Quartz ear-ring links to any v-type, it's not Sheryl-specific (why would it be?). Look at Ep 7 where Alto has the first ear-ring and hears BOTH girls singing (he specifically mentions the ep 7 event in a later ep - the balcony singing scene). And note the ep 25 scene where all 3 seem to be floating in space. That scene was BS but it corroborates a 3 way link.
Actually he's shown to only hear Sheryl's voice in episode 7 or rather it was Sheryl's voice that woke him up. It should also be known that in both cases Sheryl is shown to be singing while Alto is connecting to Ranka, so really it could just be that the fold earrings are connected to Sheryl, who is connecting to Ranka. Alto has never been shown to initiate a connection between either girls using the earring.

Though the point still stands that Alto cannot connect with Ranka without help from Sheryl's earring.
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Old 2010-09-27, 12:13   Link #2146
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually he's shown to only hear Sheryl's voice in episode 7 or rather it was Sheryl's voice that woke him up.
We have Alto's comment on the ep 7 event, I just checked it's ep 15, 17mins:45sec in, where he states he heard both singers during the ep 7 concert, plus Graces ep 15 comments about how Brera first detected Ranka's singing at the same time. Also, it was meant to be a Sheryl concert, would it have made any story-sense to have Ranka start the duet first? I don't think it's meant to be a coded clue.

Quote:
It should also be known that in both cases Sheryl is shown to be singing while Alto is connecting to Ranka, so really it could just be that the fold earrings are connected to Sheryl, who is connecting to Ranka.
In ep 25, 10mins in, Ranka starts singing and lights up the ear-ring (Sheryl has already totally passed out at this point and is definitely not singing) Alto definitely hears Ranka here (he says so). The ear-ring is also affected directly by the Vajra (note ep 25 when the Vajra sacrifice themselves).
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Alto has never been shown to initiate a connection between either girls using the earring.
He woke up the sleeping Ranka earlier in ep 25. Ranka called his name, so he DID initiate a link with Ranka here. Frontier scientists did say that the ear-rings were fold-wave-amplifiers, after all. So they send and receive.

Alto only has each ear-ring for about an episode each, but both times he connects with both girls, not just Sheryl (culminating in the mystical space scene) which I think gives us an insight into the intent of the producers. We could argue that it was poorly carried out though.
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Though the point still stands that Alto cannot connect with Ranka without help from Sheryl's earring.
A valid point if who owned the earring in the first place is more important than the sci-fi aspects of the story. At the end of the story Sheryl no longer needed the earring, as she had the v-type moved to be the same as Ranka and needed no amplification, symbolically handing it off to Alto (who didn't have anything). the earring confers on Alto an equal link with both girls, and was part of their common heritage (fold quartz).

Also, Alto accepting a female earring is probably meant to be symbolic of him coming to terms with his kobuki heritage (he never wore the first one, just hung it up, but wore the second one in the finale). It probably just made more story-sense to have the earrings originally with the mature one of the risen / rising pop stars ( a successful pop star seems more likely to have rare jewelry than a waitress)

though Sheryl is likely to hold it over Alto and Ranka that it was hers

Last edited by user112168; 2010-09-27 at 15:25.
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Old 2010-09-27, 19:01   Link #2147
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
We have Alto's comment on the ep 7 event, I just checked it's ep 15, 17mins:45sec in, where he states he heard both singers during the ep 7 concert, plus Graces ep 15 comments about how Brera first detected Ranka's singing at the same time. Also, it was meant to be a Sheryl concert, would it have made any story-sense to have Ranka start the duet first? I don't think it's meant to be a coded clue.
Actually there is an entire scene of Sheryl singing a certain part of the song, and only her voice going through to Alto, and is also the only one heard by the audience ironically it is also the part of the song where only Sheryl sings.
Specifically during these lines
-"sugiru tsukihi wa nani wo tamesu no
kedakai mama de ai wa mugen dato kuchidzukete". those are the lines where only Sheryl's voice is heard, then you start to hear Ranka's voice on the next line
-"tsuyoku tsuyoku itainda
kimi ga kimi ga suki nanda"

Quote:
In ep 25, 10mins in, Ranka starts singing and lights up the ear-ring (Sheryl has already totally passed out at this point and is definitely not singing) Alto definitely hears Ranka here (he says so). The ear-ring is also affected directly by the Vajra (note ep 25 when the Vajra sacrifice themselves).
Your right, sorry.

Quote:
He woke up the sleeping Ranka earlier in ep 25. Ranka called his name, so he DID initiate a link with Ranka here. Frontier scientists did say that the ear-rings were fold-wave-amplifiers, after all. So they send and receive.
Thing about amplifiers is that they only amplify something, they don't create on their own. And Sheryl was singing during that time, he even tells Ranka to focus on Sheryl's voice.

Quote:
Alto only has each ear-ring for about an episode each, but both times he connects with both girls, not just Sheryl (culminating in the mystical space scene) which I think gives us an insight into the intent of the producers. We could argue that it was poorly carried out though.
I was poorly carried out, but that another discussion entirely.

Quote:
A valid point if who owned the earring in the first place is more important than the sci-fi aspects of the story. At the end of the story Sheryl no longer needed the earring, as she had the v-type moved to be the same as Ranka and needed no amplification, symbolically handing it off to Alto (who didn't have anything). the earring confers on Alto an equal link with both girls, and was part of their common heritage (fold quartz).
Not necessarily the fold-quartz earrings still belongs to Sheryl, and is the only memento she has left of her family. So Alto is still expected to return said earrings at the end once he finishes flying around in the sky, and once he does they are no longer on equal ground again. Again amplifier don't create power on their own they only "amplify" power that already exists. Alto has no power on his own, he is only able to hear the fold waves when he has Sheryl's earring. Again its kinda ridiculous to expect Sheryl to not ask Alto to return something so important (personally) to her for the sake of the love triangle. Considering that part of the reason why she gives him the earring is so that he will live and return it to her. When Sheryl was first in such a panic to find her missing earring the first couple episodes it wasn't because of their power, it was because of what they meant to her. I also doubt she knew that they could do that, she only keep it around because of its sentimental value. Think of it as a Memento Macguffin or even an Orphan's Plot Trinket or depending on whether or not you consider the Sheryl manga or the Drama CDs canon a Tragic Keepsake, while it is plot relevant powers, the item is still very important to the person who actually owns it because it serves as a memento, and therefore to them it is still precious even after they realize they don't need it anymore.


Quote:
Also, Alto accepting a female earring is probably meant to be symbolic of him coming to terms with his kobuki heritage (he never wore the first one, just hung it up, but wore the second one in the finale). It probably just made more story-sense to have the earrings originally with the mature one of the risen / rising pop stars ( a successful pop star seems more likely to have rare jewelry than a waitress)
Well again the jewelry in question was a part of her heritage (they're in the Macross Zero Blu Ray DVDs). The earrings are really a part of Sheryl's identity and a sign of her heritage. So it has more to do with her background and her "unknown past" rather than her "known present". Another way to look at why Alto actually decides to wear the earring this time, is to remember several facts such as how he lost Sheryl's last earring, the fact that he learned that they were actually fold quartz and had the ability to communicate with others across long distances, the fact that he knew how much it the earring meant to Sheryl, and the knowledge that he tends to blow up his Valkyries.

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though Sheryl is likely to hold it over Alto and Ranka that it was hers
I doubt she would she would probably just ask for her earrings back which ends Ranka's ability to communicate with Alto via Dues ex Machina. And Alto would return it to her knowing what the earrings mean to her, and go return to being unable to hear Ranka's voice.

On that note it would also be very insensitive for either Ranka or Alto to expect Sheryl to let Alto keep the earring (which is the only thing she has left of her family) so that he can hear Ranka.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2010-09-27 at 19:13.
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Old 2010-09-28, 03:08   Link #2148
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Actually there is an entire scene of Sheryl singing a certain part of the song, and only her voice going through to Alto, and is also the only one heard by the audience ironically it is also the part of the song where only Sheryl sings. [...]
This is drawing a long bow. You have to come up with better than appealing to details of the musical arrangement to back up plot points. And Alto does not actually start his counter-attack until the sound of Ranka's voice is heard - so what?

But this still doesn't impact on Alto's ep 15 (17:45sec) assertation that he heard them both during ep 7, his words, not mine. I reiterate - it was at Sheryl's farewell concert, singing a Sheryl song. It makes no music sense to have the guest singer start off a duet first, and gives us no clues as to who he will pick in the end.
Quote:
Thing about amplifiers is that they only amplify something, they don't create on their own. And Sheryl was singing during that time, he even tells Ranka to focus on Sheryl's voice.
The Vajra comm. network used fold quartz as the basis. So everything picked up by Alto originated from vibrating fold-quartz. They CAN amplify another signal but the waves had to start somewhere - and that somewhere is the fold quartz itself. The Vajra used fold-quartz as neurons in their overmind, implying send and receive communications. you also have the 3-way space scene in ep 25. Alto is definitely visible / audible to the two girls. HOW the effect happens is not important, but the fact is they were able to see and hear Alto, so it wasn't just one-way.
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Not necessarily the fold-quartz earrings still belongs to Sheryl, and is the only memento she has left of her family. So Alto is still expected to return said earrings at the end once he finishes flying around in the sky, and once he does they are no longer on equal ground again.
Well, if he returns the earring, they ARE on equal ground in this respect, as neither girl can use it to contact Alto. All Sheryl would be able to say then is that she had once lent an earring to Alto. The earring is now one of Sheryl's trump cards. Taking it back loses that advantage. A loan gives less leverage than a gift, so her taking it back in no way advantages Sheryl over Ranka.
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I doubt she would she would probably just ask for her earrings back which ends Ranka's ability to communicate with Alto via Dues ex Machina. And Alto would return it to her knowing what the earrings mean to her, and go return to being unable to hear Ranka's voice.
He'd also be unable to hear Sheryl's voice, how did you miss that? You're slipping.. A few posts ago you claimed the earring only allowed him to hear Sheryl. Now, you claim losing it would only stop him hearing Ranka. How does that logic work?

And it's NOT Deus Ex Machina :
Quote:
A deus ex machina [...] is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, ability, or object.
Sheryl being cured by Ranka could be called Deus Ex Machina (there was no hint of this saving power before that scene). Ranka emitting fold waves and these being picked by Alto wearing the earring is NOT Deus Ex Machina (all the plot elements were present from episode 1 on) A repeatedly used power / ability is not Deus Ex Machina.
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On that note it would also be very insensitive for either Ranka or Alto to expect Sheryl to let Alto keep the earring (which is the only thing she has left of her family) so that he can hear Ranka.
Yeah but Sheryl would have no link to Alto either if she asks for it back.

Last edited by user112168; 2010-09-28 at 03:50.
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Old 2010-09-28, 03:39   Link #2149
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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Well, if he returns the earring, they ARE on equal ground in this respect, as neither girl can use it to contact Alto. All Sheryl would be able to say then is that she had once lent an earring to Alto. The earring is now one of Sheryl's trump cards. Taking it back loses that advantage. A loan gives less leverage than a gift, so her taking it back in no way advantages Sheryl over Ranka.
Since when would Sheryl even need another trump card over Ranka? She already holds all of them, without any "lending/gifting her earring".

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Yeah but Sheryl would have no link to Alto either if she asks for it back.
You mean besides their mutual romantic love for each other?
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Old 2010-09-28, 04:10   Link #2150
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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
My point was that Sheryl would not benefit from asking for her earring back. This was in the context of Wisteria's claim that Sheryl would want the earring back (thus cutting off Alto's contact with Ranka) I was pointing out that this would affect both girls the same (no advantage to Sheryl). I don't see you disputing any of my concrete points.
Which is because I am vastly uninterested in a debate about who keeps the earring. Of course Alto will give it back, is there even any question about that?


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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
You mean when the girl he said he loved ran off and he thought she'd betrayed them, and then he promised a dying girl who loved him to stay with her till until the end ?
Erm, no, he never said he loved Ranka in that way.

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Any man would have to be heartless to let her die alone, regardless of how he felt about her. You could say he hugged Sheryl etc only because her loved her. What was he expected to do in this situation? He acted like a normal caring human to a dying person.
Did he need to live with her and have romantic candlelight dinners only to show his pity? Did he need to make a quasi-confession before the final battle? Did he need to make love to her that other night? Funny how he spent most of his time in the last episodes with Sheryl, while barely speaking to Ranka, even before Ranka shipped herself out of the relationship. Of course in the mind of Ranka-shippers that is the awesomest set-up for true romance.
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Old 2010-09-28, 04:47   Link #2151
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What happened, did I roughtalk him and run him off?
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Old 2010-09-28, 05:21   Link #2152
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Which is because I am vastly uninterested in a debate about who keeps the earring. Of course Alto will give it back, is there even any question about that?
Yes there is, if you think Alto will continue to have the connection to the two girls. The earring is the only available device for Alto to connect with. Anyway the main discussion was about how do the earrings work. It got side-tracked with the who keeps the earring bit, which was from Wisteria, not me. Alto's shown with the earring at the end, it fits his "kobuki" background as well as it is female apparel.

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Erm, no, he never said he loved Ranka in that way.
He strongly implied as much in ep 23 (20 mins +) Saying things changed for him when he met "her" and joined SMS to protect her. He met Sheryl in ep 1 as well but he focuses his reminiscing 100% on Ranka. This confession was viewed by Sheryl, who cried and said "I always knew" so Sheryl certainly believed Alto loved Ranka.

It's probably no coincidence that Alto's ep 23 Ranka love confession is followed by him saying to Sheryl in ep 24 "You can't fly alone". He made his decision because Ranka left, there was no one left to hurt by choosing the other girl.

Quote:
Did he need to live with her and have romantic candlelight dinners only to show his pity? Did he need to make a quasi-confession before the final battle? Did he need to make love to her that other night? Funny how he spent most of his time in the last episodes with Sheryl, while barely speaking to Ranka, even before Ranka shipped herself out of the relationship. Of course in the mind of Ranka-shippers that is the awesomest set-up for true romance.
By the time he did all the things you mention, Ranka had already left Frontier for good as far as Alto knew. I never said he didn't love Sheryl, but his pity for her situation was obvious too. You are making the assumption he must love one and therefore not love the other at all. Not very 'triangular'

He made a much more overt confession of Ranka feelings in ep 23, why do you dismiss that as irrelevant and then say we must accept his quasi-confession from ep 24 ? Ranka got a mention in the ep 24 "sheryl confession" where Sheryl say's "rescue Ranka" and "you almost never find a woman as good as me".

Note Alto didn't make a move towards Sheryl until he thought Ranka was permanently out of the picture. Does this make her the consolation prize?

Personally I think he could never make a decision between the two girls. In ep 23 Alto says he had "pretended not to notice a lot of things" throughout the series. He went with one of the girls as soon as the other one was out of the scene.


Quote:
What happened, did I roughtalk him and run him off?
Lame.

I had to go out then rewatched some eps for the relvant quotes when i got back.

The earlier post i deleted because I wasn't happy with my wording. After deleting I noticed you had already replied to it.

Last edited by user112168; 2010-09-28 at 05:44.
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Old 2010-09-28, 05:36   Link #2153
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Yes there is, if you think Alto will continue to have the connection to the two girls. The earring is the only available device for Alto to connect with.
Besides talking and spending time with them, like every normal human does.

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
He strongly implied as much in ep 23 (20 mins +) Saying things changed for him when he met "her" and joined SMS to protect her. He met Sheryl in ep 1 as well but he focuses his reminiscing on Ranka. This confession was viewed by Sheryl, who cried and said "I always knew" so Sheryl certainly believed Alto loved Ranka.
Actually, I think you misread that scene. It was Alto reminiscising how he used protecting Ranka as a cause to move forward in his life, because he was adrift before. He then goes on to explain how he since then has expanded his view to not only protect his friend Ranka, but how he wants to protect all of his home, ending in his determination that he even would kill Ranka if necessary. Which prompts Klan to realize that his love is for everybody on Frontier. There were some mistranslations in some fansubs, which had Klan say that "So she is your love", instead of "So this is your love".

And Sheryl came in late and only heard the last part of his conversation with Klan, which made her believe, wrongly, that he was going on about his love of Ranka.

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
By the time he did almost all those things Ranka had already left Frontier. I never said he didn't love Sheryl, but his pity for her situation was obvious too. You are making the assumption he must love one and therefore not love the other at all. Not very 'triangular'
Sure he loves Ranka. But not in a romantic way, by all indicators.

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
He made a much more overt confession of Ranka feelings in ep 23, why do you dismiss that as irrelevant and then say we must accept his quasi-confession from ep 24 ? Ranka got a mention in the ep 24 where Sheryl say's resuce Ranka and "you almost never find a woman as good as me".
As I said above, you misread the scene in episode 23. And how does Sheryl mentioning Ranka in ep 24 has any bearing on Altos feelings? By some readings, it is only through Sheryls intervention that Alto let up his determination to kill Ranka for Frontiers good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Note Alto didn't make a move towards Sheryl until he thought Ranka was permanently out of the picture. Does this make her the consolation prize?
Uh, besides almost kissing on the Macross Quarter, coming to her rescue when Michael told about her plight and breaking his vow to never return to his families home? Which was all before Ranka left? Oh, and promising he'd come back for Sheryl no matter what, during the Vajra invasion? In this time-frame we had him talking with Ranka once, when he went to her home. Which turned out to be the most unromantic moment possible, although it would have been the logical place to put what romance those two had into real motion.

Not to mention that he really didn't have much time to choose, anyway. Until the time of the Vajra invasion of Frontier, Sheryl had to deal with having gotten the news of her imminent demise and was trying to push Alto away, to spare him the pain of seeing her die. The episodes of the fight on Frontier didn't have many romantic moments ( and all of those were uppers for Sheryl and downers for Ranka ) and exactly afterwards Ranka left on her own accord. So it is not as if Alto was "waiting" for Ranka to leave, so he'd get a "consolation price". That's a ridiculous argument.

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Originally Posted by reelyanoob View Post
Lame.

I had to go out then rewatched some eps for the relvant quotes when i got back.
You deleted your post before mine and after mine, before re-opening the latter. That didn't really look like staying around to debate.
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Old 2010-09-28, 06:09   Link #2154
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You deleted your post before mine and after mine, before re-opening the latter. That didn't really look like staying around to debate.
Sorry for how that looked, i submitted the first one at 4:01 then decided to edit it. While editing I decided I needed to rewatch some of the series, so I delete the post at this point. Only after I hit delete did I noticed you had submitted your reply at 4:10. I had hoped nobody had replied yet in the 10 min interval.

The second deleted post was a scrapped draft reply I started at 4:14 just after I saw your post. I decided to take a bit longer working on a reply, hence the deletion.

I'll get on to the main points a little later.
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Old 2010-09-28, 06:18   Link #2155
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Sorry for how that looked, i submitted the first one at 4:01 then decided to edit it. While editing I decided I needed to rewatch some of the series, so I delete the post at this point. Only after I hit delete did I noticed you had submitted your reply at 4:10. I had hoped nobody had replied yet in the 10 min interval.

The second deleted post was a scrapped draft reply I started at 4:14 just after I saw your post. I decided to take a bit longer working on a reply, hence the deletion.

I'll get on to the main points a little later.
Okay. I may not be able to respond until tonight, since I am leaving shortly for an RPG round.
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Old 2010-09-28, 08:59   Link #2156
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This is drawing a long bow. You have to come up with better than appealing to details of the musical arrangement to back up plot points. And Alto does not actually start his counter-attack until the sound of Ranka's voice is heard - so what?
He was losing consiousness and her voice woke him up, him starting a counter attack when Ranka sang her line was more because of timing and less because of Ranka's voice.

Quote:
But this still doesn't impact on Alto's ep 15 (17:45sec) assertation that he heard them both during ep 7, his words, not mine. I reiterate - it was at Sheryl's farewell concert, singing a Sheryl song. It makes no music sense to have the guest singer start off a duet first, and gives us no clues as to who he will pick in the end.
he did say he heard both their voices but at what time.

Quote:
The Vajra comm. network used fold quartz as the basis. So everything picked up by Alto originated from vibrating fold-quartz. They CAN amplify another signal but the waves had to start somewhere - and that somewhere is the fold quartz itself. The Vajra used fold-quartz as neurons in their overmind, implying send and receive communications. you also have the 3-way space scene in ep 25. Alto is definitely visible / audible to the two girls. HOW the effect happens is not important, but the fact is they were able to see and hear Alto, so it wasn't just one-way.
It is one way Alto cannot produce the fold waves himself, he needs them to already be around for him to decipher them, unless you're trying to say that Alto can suddenly produce fold waves.

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Well, if he returns the earring, they ARE on equal ground in this respect, as neither girl can use it to contact Alto. All Sheryl would be able to say then is that she had once lent an earring to Alto. The earring is now one of Sheryl's trump cards. Taking it back loses that advantage. A loan gives less leverage than a gift, so her taking it back in no way advantages Sheryl over Ranka.
And one girl lives with him, it also wasn't a gift, it was a symbol of a promise. Think of it like the oathkeeper key chain in kingdom hearts it doesn't belong to Sora, but it instead symobolizes a promise, once the promise is fulfilled Sora returns it to Kairi.

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He'd also be unable to hear Sheryl's voice, how did you miss that? You're slipping.. A few posts ago you claimed the earring only allowed him to hear Sheryl. Now, you claim losing it would only stop him hearing Ranka. How does that logic work?
He can hear Sheryl's voice just fine outside of the fold waves, remember Sheryl lives with him so she isn't losing anything by getting back her earring back. She doesn't have as much communication problems with Alto as Ranka does. She never needed her fold waves for Alto to hear her.

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And it's NOT Deus Ex Machina :

Sheryl being cured by Ranka could be called Deus Ex Machina (there was no hint of this saving power before that scene). Ranka emitting fold waves and these being picked by Alto wearing the earring is NOT Deus Ex Machina (all the plot elements were present from episode 1 on) A repeatedly used power / ability is not Deus Ex Machina.
It was when it was first introduced. And the conversation between the two was dues ex Machina considering that was established that Alto can not produce fold waves.

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Yeah but Sheryl would have no link to Alto either if she asks for it back.
instead she has a personal link beacuse of the time they spent together, the fact that they also live together. Remember it wasn't Sheryl who was crying over the fact that Alto can't hear her voice.

Something to also remember is that Alto would have been gungho to kill Ranka For The Motherland (obligatory reference) if Sheryl never gave him the earring and had him promise to save Ranka. Let's also remember that Alto doesn't give Ranka any fuel for her to believe that she still has a chance with him (unless you count saving her, which could be countered with you don't have to be in love with someone to save their life). We also don't hear Alto's thoughts on the matter of the love triangle in the last episodes, Alto and Sheryl still live together, Ranka now has two older overprotective older brothers who probably won't be so happy about Ranka chasing after Alto who seems to already be in a relationship with Sheryl. Let us not also forget that Ranka gave up on Alto in episode 21, and Alto had a chance to chase after Ranka and yet he chose not to. Let's also not forget the fact that while Sheryl is much closer to Alto than Ranka, and Frontier knows and believes that Sheryl is in a relationship with Alto. Also if Ranka decided to chase after Alto (whom Frontier believes is in a relationship with Sheryl) she'll risk looking like a home wrecker. It doesn't help that the citizens of Frontier believe that Ranka abandoned them, and Sheryl took Ranka's place even though she wasn't from Frontier. Can Ranka afford to pubically chase after Alto when she still wants a singing career, and will her brothers stand for her tarnishing her own reputation?

Last edited by wisteria233; 2010-09-28 at 09:14.
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Old 2010-09-28, 09:48   Link #2157
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There still season 2 ... Who knows alto end up choose ranka...
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Old 2010-09-28, 09:50   Link #2158
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Something to also remember is that Alto would have been gungho to kill Ranka For The Motherland (obligatory reference) if Sheryl never gave him the earring and had him promise to save Ranka. Let's also remember that Alto doesn't give Ranka any fuel for her to believe that she still has a chance with him (unless you count saving her, which could be countered with you don't have to be in love with someone to save their life). We also don't hear Alto's thoughts on the matter of the love triangle in the last episodes, Alto and Sheryl still live together, Ranka now has two older overprotective older brothers who probably won't be so happy about Ranka chasing after Alto who seems to already be in a relationship with Sheryl. Let us not also forget that Ranka gave up on Alto in episode 21, and Alto had a chance to chase after Ranka and yet he chose not to. Let's also not forget the fact that while Sheryl is much closer to Alto than Ranka, and Frontier knows and believes that Sheryl is in a relationship with Alto. Also if Ranka decided to chase after Alto (whom Frontier believes is in a relationship with Sheryl) she'll risk looking like a home wrecker. It doesn't help that the citizens of Frontier believe that Ranka abandoned them, and Sheryl took Ranka's place even though she wasn't from Frontier. Can Ranka afford to pubically chase after Alto when she still wants a singing career, and will her brothers stand for her tarnishing her own reputation?
And ( short intermission before my players arrive ) Ranka doesn't have the personality nor maliciousness to interpose herself aggressively between Sheryl and Alto. Maybe she could manage through her vast obliviousness?
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Old 2010-09-28, 10:40   Link #2159
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There still season 2 ...
Hmmm... no, there isn't.
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Old 2010-09-28, 11:18   Link #2160
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He was losing consiousness and her voice woke him up, him starting a counter attack when Ranka sang her line was more because of timing and less because of Ranka's voice.
he did say he heard both their voices but at what time
There's Video Evidence - Ep 15 (17:45) while Alto speaks it shows a FLASHBACK of the same ep 7 scene we've been discussing with Alto's downed VF25 inside the Vajra ship. So, It's Canon that he heard both their voices projected at that point in the story. Who sang first seems a side point which I've already addressed.
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It is one way Alto cannot produce the fold waves himself, he needs them to already be around for him to decipher them, unless you're trying to say that Alto can suddenly produce fold waves.
Since Alto himself can't directly interact with fold-waves at all, the fold-quartz must convert the fold-waves into something that he can sense. Logical to assume it works the other way too, given the 3-way conversation they have in the finale. There's no other explanation than Alto's consciousness was projected to the girls via the fold-quartz. And it's not the girls themselves who have the waves - it's the Vajra infection which is the same thing Vajra have in their own stomachs.

Brera also senses fold waves and was able to communicate with Ranka in the finale the same way, no V-type infection needed, he just had fold quartz - 2 types - one in his harmonica, and secondly he was part of Grace's zero-time network she build based on fold-quartz - so Brera had to have a fold-quartz implant for this. It is shown to confer the same abilities on Brera as Alto gets while having the earring(s).
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And one girl lives with him, it also wasn't a gift, it was a symbol of a promise. Think of it like the oathkeeper key chain in kingdom hearts it doesn't belong to Sora, but it instead symobolizes a promise, once the promise is fulfilled Sora returns it to Kairi.
He can hear Sheryl's voice just fine outside of the fold waves, remember Sheryl lives with him so she isn't losing anything by getting back her earring back. She doesn't have as much communication problems with Alto as Ranka does. She never needed her fold waves for Alto to hear her.
He can hear the girls singing while flying ANYWHERE around the beautiful new planet if he KEEPS the earring, and the female earring symbolizes his character development (coming to accept Kobuki past). This pretty much sums up Alto's entire reason for existence, why would they change this from where it is at the series end? The movie will end more or less the same IMO.
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It was when it was first introduced. And the conversation between the two was dues ex Machina considering that was established that Alto can not produce fold waves.
Anything could be called Deus-ex-machina by that standard.
Grace's zero-time network she built, which included Brera, gave instant two-way communication using fold-quartz implants. No need for a v-type infection.
Macross compendium on fold quartz says it's a fold-wave emitter :
http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Fold_Quartz
So, the 2-way nature of fold wave communications is Canon, not something they pulled out of a hat at the last minute. The ep 25 3-way conversation is foreshadowed by Brera and Ranka earlier in ep 25, and Sheryl and Ranka in ep 7. Maybe Alto couldn't join in the earlier one because previously he hadn't "let his feelings guide the way" (Kawamori's a hippie!) and he didn't have the fold-quartz close enough to him in ep 7 for the full effect (he only ever wore earring #2)
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