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Old 2003-12-05, 09:54   Link #1
Kid
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Question Kaizoku-Fansubs, why leave out the credits?

I'm really a newbie when it comes to fansubs but, watching One Piece from Kaizoku-Fansubs, I come across a strange new situation. Why are the closing credits missing? *confused look*

So far, all the other fansubbed series I've been watching include the closing credits. But they are missing from the One Piece fansubs. I'll like to know the reason. (I'm not criticizing or demanding. I'm only curious as to why.) I'm a voice actor fan and I like to watch the closing credits to know who is responsible for voicing which character. It's kind of frustrating not having the closing credits to watch because One Piece has an amazing cast of primary as well as supporting characters and I have yet to find a site that lists all the parts and all the voice actors responsible.

On a more general note, may I ask the other fansub watchers on this forum..... do you care if the closing credits are included or not? Why..... if you do care and why not if you don't?

Sometimes closing credits are important. For instance Saiyuki Reload. Those who watch Saiyuki Reload will know why. *wink*

Anyway, generally, I feel that closing credits should be included. In much the same way that fansubbers always include their own credits crediting the people who timed, translated, checked, etc....... because they feel these people should be given credit for their hard work, I think it's important to leave the ***original*** credits which list the Japanese cast and crew intact.
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Old 2003-12-05, 10:36   Link #2
Shii
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Old 2003-12-05, 11:06   Link #3
DrWho2002
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K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with). K-F is acting much like some licensing company in that regard.
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Old 2003-12-05, 11:18   Link #4
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with). K-F is acting much like some licensing company in that regard.
It's not their place as fansubbers to make those calls. One of the shows my group does the op timing changes every ep,but since people like the op and we think it's nice to have the shows credits it gets retimed each time. And the next ep thing,people can stop the ep from playing. K-F has no place cutting or changing any of it.
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Old 2003-12-05, 11:22   Link #5
Kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
K-F does that so they don't have to be bothered to take more time to encode each episode's proper OP/ED sequence, they just use a stock one and slap it on each episode they put together. They also don't include the next ep previews because they feel it spoils too much of the next episode in their opinion (which I don't agree with).
I don't mind not having previews. But I feel strongly about the credits.

Even as webmasters and fansubbers, we all feel we should be given credit for our effort...... no? I'm sure even K-F will agree with that. They love their site and they want their fansubbing effort to be recognized. (And personally I think they do a great job with the translation and subbing.) But if the *original* credits are chopped off....... but the credits for their own fansubbing efforts are left in........ I don't know. Maybe I'm not seeing this thing properly but I feel it's kind of unfair. *huge sweat drop* Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to stir up an unpleasant debate. I would just like to be able to see things from a different point of view. *sweat drop*
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Old 2003-12-05, 13:07   Link #6
Tofusensei
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Fansubbers should not alter the video in any way. It was intended by the Japanese producers to be seen that way, so it's our responsibility to uphold their efforts. The same goes for not removing japanese credits... In fact it's much more important to have japanese credits than it is to have fansub credits because, let's face it, their work is a lot more important and harder than ours :P

-Tofu
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Old 2003-12-05, 13:28   Link #7
lighter junkie
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actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits. i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.

peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.
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Old 2003-12-05, 13:37   Link #8
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighter junkie
actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits. i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.

peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.

If they need to alleviate their work-load then they are not fansubbing for the right reasons. It is a hobby nothing more. If they are cutting off the credits to save them time that is a very bad thing.
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Old 2003-12-05, 13:38   Link #9
Kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighter junkie
actually, i think... i think, you maybe able to find the cast of voice actors from animenfo, as well as other information that you talked about, in the ending-credits.
I have tried but no site lists the credits for all the voice actors in all the episodes. We're talking about a really huge cast and I'm interested in the voice actors for the supporting characters as well and not just the main cast. I know who the main cast are in fact because I already own the anime artbook and they are featured. But even the official anime artbook does not list every voice actor who's worked on OP. If anyone is able to direct me to a site that lists these voice actors in every episode, I'd be enormously grateful.

Quote:
i think KF did the best job on One Piece in terms of video quality and translation, so if leaving out the credits and previews can alleviate their work-load, i don't think that's such a bad thing, i mean if you need to know everything, just do a search on google and eventually you'll end up with something.
I've already explained myself. And I'm not saying they're not doing a good job. They are! I just want to understand why they omit the credits. They don't have to translate the voice actors or even the song. I just want to see the closing credits to check things......... but you're right. I'm asking for too much. >_<;;;;;

Quote:
peronally, i'm just grateful that KF...and in general all fansubs are there to bring the anime to us at all. i mean i barely do any free-work at all. being persnickety isn't all that bad, but i figured if something can be done on your own, i'd probably do it myself rather than making complaints to the group who did all the hard work during their freetime.
I'm not complaining. *sweat drop* Why does everyone take questions about a fansub group's practice to be negative feedback/complaints/whining? I'm not complaining. I think KF is doing a great job. I just want to understand why they leave out the credits.......... >_<;;;;;;;;; I'd be happy with an answer- maybe from someone from KF- and I'll never ask again. >_<;;;;;;;;
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Old 2003-12-05, 15:29   Link #10
GipFace
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Mmm ... let's say the op and ed take up 25 megs of the encode. Now multiply that by 72 and look at all the wasted space that could be better spent on a higher quality encode.

Back in the day of stamp-sized DIVX encodes (<75MB), the op and ed were regularly taken out because people realized that bandwidth was precious. If I were to start DL all of One Piece from the batch torrents at about 100k/sec, that means I would have spent 6 hours worth of bandwidth downloading the bloody op/ed 72 times. It's pointless to include the op/ed in every episode for a series this big.
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Old 2003-12-05, 17:41   Link #11
DrWho2002
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Yes, but now the bandwith flows like water, so why do things like cutting OP/ED sequences? I think the fansubbers are doing a disservice to the show they claim to love so much, and I think that nothing of the original product should be changed if someone is doing a fansub of it.

http://www.kaizoku-fansubs.com/index...ST&f=3&t=1116&

Here's a link to their forums which shows just how pretentious these guys think they are. Sure they're doing the show, but these guys feel that they think they can make decisions about OP/ED/next ep previews for us. I think that should be left up to us.

They claim that they try to make their encodes so that they fit on CD's nicely. CDR's are cheap and DVD-R's and writers are getting cheaper by the day. Puhleeze. They don't feel One Piece's next episode previews are "unique" enough to be bothered to include them and they seem too overly concerned about the possiblity of unwanted spoilerage in next episode previews. That may be true in some cases and certain TV shows do do that, but that should be LEFT UP TO THE VIEWER to make that choice to watch them or not. Don't make these decisions for us, because it smacks of megalomania IMO. Plus their response to using stock OP/ED's -> go buy the R2 DVD's. Well if they had english subs I would, but they don't so fansubs are the only alternative if I want to understand it fully.

Yes I realize that I can't really complain as it's free and they do work on it, but I mean don't you think they would catch more flies with honey than vinegar???? Instead of acting all high and mighty.

I hope another R1 company licenses One Piece soon or another group picks it up and does it right.

Last edited by DrWho2002; 2003-12-05 at 17:57.
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Old 2003-12-05, 18:36   Link #12
DekaMaster
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I guess it's pretty good that there is nothing that group does I would watch.
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Old 2003-12-05, 19:52   Link #13
aquilus
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They arenīt forcing you to watch it their way, so why all the fuss? I can understand why some people wonīt like this, but personally, I donīt mind - I donīt have to wait until next week before I need to watch the next episode. Do they have the OP/ED separate from the episodes? Thatīd make it all fine and dandy for me ... irrelevant, as Iīm not interested in this one, but ...
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Old 2003-12-05, 20:02   Link #14
lordwu
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I noticed that K-F's source is actually from HK DVDs. Sometimes, to squeeze more episodes onto 1 DVD, HK DVDs do leave out previews. I know the Macross 7 done by the same company does not have previews. Maybe K-F don't have the preview to start out with.
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Old 2003-12-05, 21:05   Link #15
dythim
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Yeah the sources were hk dvds, but not for very long. They switched to strictly r2 dvds at some point, though when exactly i'm not sure. I do know that every release now is r2 and only r2 (which doesn't help a whole lot because it's episode 72... sorry >_<)
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Old 2003-12-05, 21:24   Link #16
K_R
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Such a minor point to get angry about... Who really cares? If you're a big enough fan you can find the credits on the internet somewhere. http://www.toei.co.jp/onepiece/ is a good place to start.

If you are a 'voice actor fan', ie. able to read the Kanji names, then why are you bothering with the fansub?

Personally, I wouldn't care, or notice, if they chopped off the ED as well, since I stop the playback when it says 'to be continued'.
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Old 2003-12-05, 22:52   Link #17
Kid
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I have learned my lesson. One must never ask questions about how things are done or why things are done in a certain way. Fansub groups don't want to hear anything from anyone unless it's outright praise......... >_<;;;;;;;;

Maybe a mod should lock this thread. >_<;;;;;;;;;
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Old 2003-12-06, 00:27   Link #18
GTAkito
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First off, if you wanted to ask us something Kid, it would have been better to do it on our own forums. Animesuki seems like a nice place to flame groups.

No one here has hit the real reason why we use a clean op/ed. K-F considers the one piece op and eds to be works of art. We think that the credits clutter them up...also have you noticed we dont put our own credits in the op either? Its totally creditless because we care about how it looks, no other reason. It's true that the creators deserve credit, but the whole reason an average person watches a fansub is because they dont know japanese. Besides, if you really care and can read them, you should be buying the r2 dvds. The reason we fansub is because we love one piece and want to share it with people, thats all.


P.S. - Omg I can't believe we're getting flamed by Kingranger! I'd call him the Killshok of tokusatsu, but that would too much of a compliment. I'm sure most of you haven't seen tv-nihon's subs, but they are by far the most ugly looking mistimed tacky typesetted questionably translated subs i have ever seen.
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Old 2003-12-06, 00:56   Link #19
Cyberdramon
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Wow, that was pretty offensive seeing as how I edit, typeset and do many other things for just about all the Tv-Nihon projects. I don't really see what you can base that claim off of, but maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself before you bash people's hard work.
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Old 2003-12-06, 00:59   Link #20
GTAkito
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I think so as well Cyberdramon, but if you flame, prepare to be flamed back. Ah and I see you've banned me from your channel, nice way to take criticism.
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