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Old 2010-03-06, 09:45   Link #2661
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
I watched this series at last... and i'm not sure if i should be proud of myself, because the first 5 chapters bored me out, then by mistakes i skipped quickly through up to chapter 8 where the loli Cal got me back. Then i followed the series closely until chapter 25. By then i no longer have any mood for the ending so i quickly skipped through ep 26

In short, the only character i like and helped me finishing this series, Cal, ended up death. It's kind of suck.

But oh well, since a fan of Higurashi and Umineko i am. I will take the short sweet moment of chapter 25 as the true ending in most of fragment world then.
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Old 2010-04-01, 11:09   Link #2662
ditn
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Great anime,normally this isn't my type of anime but i really like it.
Spoiler for end:

To bad the chances of a sequel are like 0.001%
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Old 2010-04-01, 15:43   Link #2663
Angrypokstick
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Thats why awesome ideas like this need to happen.

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-04-01, 15:49   Link #2664
kitten320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I don't think she deserved to die. She may have used them, but it was never with ill intentions. And the reason things went south with Ein after Claudia's capture & persuasion of Reiji was Reiji's fault, not Claudia's.
It was fully Claudi's fault that Ein got targeted and almost got killed.

And she did have ill intentions. All she cared about was to get power and Reiji to herself. She might have gotten a bit better towards the end but she still is at fault that Ein almost died.

Maybe death is too harsh, but she deserved the punishment for playing with innocent lives.
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Old 2010-04-02, 09:50   Link #2665
DragoZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Maybe death is too harsh, but she deserved the punishment for playing with innocent lives.
Exactly what I said, she didn't deserve to die.

And Reiji shot Ein - not Claudia. It was his fault. But it's really the plot device that is to blame.
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Old 2010-04-05, 02:33   Link #2666
Demongod86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2 View Post
Yes, because of theme of series is all about karma, you got what you deserve for what you have done is the crux of the story here. That what makes the ending so emotional and beautiful, it gives so much meaning to the conclusion. Just like Homer's Odyssey is awesome because the characters died a tragic poetry like Achilles for example. I would consider Reiji is like Achilles, a supreme warrior that inhuman in his rampage at first but ultimately humbled by his own flaws as a human and die for it, since he already found it in the end. A meaningful and powerful pathos. The writer(s) nail it perfectly, much to my satisfaction.

Elen/Ein has no reason to go rampage since she is satisfied with new found her identity and memories thanks to humane Reiji. She is content to live her life quietly or wait for retribution for her history as Phantom which shown in the end where she lie dead on the quiet plains of Mongolia, staring at sunset with small smile on her lips forever. She found her peace within herself and willing to face death for her past deeds. That is pretty brave of her, to be honest. Perhaps too, it would explain why she is giggling as she saw the assassin in the end.
Eh? Does any important character actually die in Odyssey? As far as I understand it, Telemachos goes around being the ruler of Ithaca in Odysseus's place (he's having a hard time with it cuz everyone's trying to tap his mom), then Odysseus comes back and he and Athena curb-stomp everyone.

As for Odysseus's mooks doing dumb stuff like getting turned into pigs, eating Hyperion's cattle, the island of the lotus eaters, and all of that junk...well...yeah...

Don't be dumb, eh?

As for the last two minutes...

Only a flesh wound much? How you can call that a death when episode 10 was "HEY LOOK THEY'RE REALLY DEAD AND HERE THEY ARE DROWNING WITH BLOOD FLOWING OUT OF 3 ORIFICES" and both Elen and Eiji survived that.

So I'm not sure how to interpret that last part besides "WTF WAS WITH THE DAMN CART?!" It's sorta like the ending to Cyrano De Bergerac...dude's just walking along then a plank falls on his head and he dies.

Leik WTF?

Gogogo getting pwnt by a completely random nonsensical event!

That's why the ending was stupid.

Oh...and for that matter, ep 25 also...yes, a girl is suffering like mad to the point that she plans not to live to see the next day. So...the solution to snap her out of her misery is to...

KILL HER!

Leik srsly ?

Failure.
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Old 2010-04-05, 02:52   Link #2667
klare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Oh...and for that matter, ep 25 also...yes, a girl is suffering like mad to the point that she plans not to live to see the next day. So...the solution to snap her out of her misery is to...

KILL HER!

Leik srsly ?

Failure.
if that girl is pointing the gun at u and ready to shoot u no matter what u say, what will be your solution? aim at her finger? seriously

i do agree with u about the ending being not very good, but it is satisfying enough, how many killer/assasin able to live long?
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Old 2010-04-05, 12:03   Link #2668
Demongod86
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Solution?

If you're a world class assassin and she's as out of it as she is? Disarm her with an arm shot. Or while the music is still chiming, give the woobie a hug and see what happens (so long as you keep her from reaching for the gun).
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Old 2010-04-05, 12:50   Link #2669
DragoZERO
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I do agree that things could have went down differently. I would have preferred that she'd die after protecting him from the other Phantoms - from the wound he gave her though.
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Old 2010-04-05, 15:45   Link #2670
ditn
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I kinda agree that it was a pretty stupid way to just shoot her and then the talk.
I guess the producers went for the dark theme all the way.
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Old 2010-04-05, 17:14   Link #2671
Kanon
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They just went with what was in the game. That scene was pretty stupid here, too. That's why I like the Cal path better (might also be because I love Cal, I admit). Well, maybe stupid isn't the right word, but you know what I mean. It seems it would have been so easy to change her mind if Reiji actually tried to seriously talk with her, or he could have just disarmed her, as said above.
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Old 2010-04-05, 21:17   Link #2672
Demongod86
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Reason Drei-Cal was so likable was that her style points were off the scale. Guns akimbo, red and black skintight leather, red Kawasaki Ninja, and that awesome hairdo.

And if that wasn't enough, you more or less (if you had a heart) wanted to go through the screen and hug her.

If there's one thing Beetrain did correctly, it's tugging at heartstrings. But then again, characters do become more believable when they're not A) teen prodigies B) have magical powers or C) fly giant super robots powered by pink princess pixy dust.

Once you pare those things down, you're not left with many animes though.
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Old 2010-04-07, 01:34   Link #2673
klare
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i am not argueing or wanting Cal to die so much, but about disarming her, Cal is a world-class assassin as well, u cant beat her if u hold back

and even if u able to disarm Cal, as a world-class assassin she still can kill u without a gun

but of course, Cal dont have to die if the producers think harder
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Old 2010-04-07, 11:28   Link #2674
Demongod86
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It seems to me that it was pretty much established that the assassins are far less powerful without their guns. Okay, Ein had that one disarmed kill and that one knife kill. Aside from that...well, a half-drunk mentally-off-the-rocker angsting teenager with a bullet wound in the arm?

I'd think Zwei would be able to handle that.
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Old 2010-05-11, 11:18   Link #2675
tyciol
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Is it true that there is a filter on one of these episodes involving sun tan lotion?
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Old 2010-06-04, 18:51   Link #2676
aionxx
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Just finished this series today and it was awesome.

I've been reading many previous posts regarding the ending
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-06-17, 20:37   Link #2677
Samurai dono
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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uhm, hi ..

I just finished the series, and I don't know what to say, really.

1) Ok, I've NEVER seen ANYTHING with a plot NEARLY as sophisticated, yet NEARLY as well executed. I think it's BRILLIANT to make a story with so much complications, and have so little "minor" misfits. It was well told, well paced, and EXCEPTIONALLY executed.

2) Having said that, here's what I didn't like in the story:
Spoiler for Phantom ~ Requiem ..:
Other than that .. I thought the show was ABSOLUTELY beautiful .. I loved it .. even with all that stuff I bored you whining about .. I still loved it so much ... very nice little show.

Apologies for my lengthy post, AND for the poor English you had to soldier through while getting through it hehe ..
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Old 2010-09-25, 14:57   Link #2678
roriconfan
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MY REVIEW

PROLOGUE
So I have this guy asking me why I gave a good series (his opinion) like RFTF an average mark of 5. And just about when I was going to explain … I froze. Why did I give it a 5 anyway? And what was the story about again? And why don’t I remember anything about a series with such a high average? Hm, might as well give it a second view and find out.

Turns out my memory was whipped just like Zwei’s this anime boasts being a lot more than it really is. And sure, it has many fans and such but then again when was that a proof of anything? Naruto is a piece of tard and has a billions fans while poor old Legend of Galactic Heroes is thrown aside by most because there aren’t half naked chicks with neon swords blowing up huge 3 million polygon mecha in it.

And what did the above rant have to do with the review? Nothing; it’s just nerdrage; moving along to the actual review.

STORY SECTION

The story is somewhat generic. Or it is for someone like me who has already watched live action movies like Nikita or Leon , and anime series like Gunslinger Girls, Gungrave or Darker Than Black. It’s about
I don’t remember
A criminal organization which plans to rule the world
A criminal organization which plans to unite the underworld
Chicks with guns
Chick with gun, plus a token dude
A pair of angsty assassins
Ein showing bare skin while pondering about the meaning of life while shooting stuff
What was I writing about again?

A pair of teens brainwashed and trained to be assassins for a mafia family which plans to be the top criminal organization with the most diplomatic way possible -> killing anyone who disagrees.

But the whole power struggle fuss is left on a secondary level; primarily it’s about the lead duo, Ein and Zwei, shooting stuff and throwing around existentialism dialogues around the value of life and free choice. So here we are with a rather ok background story and a somewhat promising foreground plot around two slave killers. Sounds ok and in theory it should work …
And it didn’t.
The actual story is fine as it is. Mafia families fight to the death, Zwei has morality issues and is eventually hunted by his own masters, there is a lot of shooting around, a lot of ambitious crime bosses betraying one another, some subtle romance, some subtle erotism, and a final showdown in the end. What could go wrong?
Well … the pacing. I have left behind my days where I could wait 5 episodes for a planet to blow up in just 5 minutes. Most people don’t seem to care if it takes 10 episodes to get a beer from the fridge but I do. The pacing is as slow as a crippled snail. I have seen worse but it is still on the slow territory. Supposed this would be counter-balanced by extreme amounts of atmosphere build-up, character immersion and philosophical dialogues.
But no; it’s still slow in a dull way. I never found any appeal in spaced out expressionless characters looking at the ceiling and questioning the meaning of their existence. Or at least not without something eye-catchy to back it up. I mean, amongst my favorite shows are anime like Tatami Galaxy, Ultimate Survivor Kaiji and Neon Genesis. Sure, those also had a ton of talking about deep stuff. But they also had psychedelic imagery and heart pumping action. RFTF does not.
It sounds weird saying that about a series where in each episode a dozen people get shot and stuff blow up. Sure, there is action. And sure, the backgrounds are very well made and occasionally throw around phycho imagery. But it’s not done in a masterpiece level. Just a well done one. Take the action parts for example. To the most part there is no real excitement in them. 99% of the opponents Ein and Zwei face are stupid, slow and can’t shoot straight, resulting to overkill battles that usually last only 5 to 10 minutes at best. Heck, the duo can do air flips, walk calmly towards its target or smoke a cigar for a few minutes and the enemies still are unable to react in time. Not to mention the usual trope where sworn enemies just talk to each other for half an hour when all it takes is to press the trigger. If you have watched the previous works of the same director (Madlax, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja) you know what I mean. Never liked it then; still don’t like it now.
Anyways, the pacing is so slow I ended up losing all interest (and memory) of most of the show the first time. And during the second go, it felt equally dull, only this time I had to pay some attention in order to write this review. I don’t need to explain anything further; even most of the fans of the series will admit that the first arc is too simple, the second too slow and the third too anti-climactic. That alone is enough for me to give story the base score. It has a beginning, a middle and an ending. But it lacks proper pacing and climax. It could easily be done in half the episodes and with a lot more excitement in terms of action or suspense.

CHARACTER SECTION

Enough with the story; now a bit of rage at the cast. First of all they really are an interesting bunch as far as sympathy or interest from the viewer goes. They all have their goals, demeanors, and development. The negative part is that most of the focus is given on the main duo. They are really given a deep immersion, understanding and development. All the rest, with the exception of Scythe Master, are pretty much left with their initial demeanor; making them rather stiff and hard to like. Especially when most of what they do is talking fancy for half an hour, and then sending in the Phantoms to do all the dirty work. It gets tiresome pretty fast if you combine it with the slow pacing and the fact that all they do is talking. If they are to be killed, most don’t even put up a fight. Well, talk about all words and no balls.

By the end of the show, I only cared for the aforementioned three, and not because they felt any special or likable. They were simply given all the damn focus to the point where the show could work with these three alone. The cast isn’t bad; just hard to empathize or remember in the long-run. I give it a 7 for being good but killed at the excitement department.

ANIMATION & SOUND SECTION

At least the external looks of the anime are marvelous and you will not be disappointed in this department. The amount of details and colors given to the artwork are marvelous, almost completely realistic and fitting to the grim setting of the criminal underworld. Crime bosses live in ridiculously high luxury and have an army of thugs, casinos, yachts, saunas, bitches, etc. And how nice, most mooks are not identical Men-In-Black like in previous similar anime. And that champagne looks so well drawn, I actually got thirsty looking at it. Acton scenes … well, they are fine I guess but do lack overall realism; the baddies are dumb arses as usual. But heck, there are basic strategies and field tactics used and not ridiculous “one kills a thousand in open field with a water pistol” or something like in Black Lagoon. And then it’s the overall soundtrack which is just an amazing work overall. I have listened to the first opening (Karma) at least a hundred times. The battle theme used in most action parts is also great but it may get tiresome. In fact, I found little variety in tunes but heck, I didn’t mind it as much as the pacing. But more BMG would definitely help go through it more easily. Just look what wonders the different and more variable BMG did in the English dub of the first DBZ. I give both a 9. It would be 10 if most characters would do more and talk less, and if the BMG had a few more tracks in it.

VALUE & ENJOYMENT SECTION
Replay value is so-so because of the pacing issues. Historical value is high; it’s by far the best of all the series the director made. In fact, it probably comes only second to Black Lagoon in terms of shoot outs and it’s still far more than just brainless slug fest. Memorability … well … I did forgot it almost immediately the first time, lol. This has to do with only me of course. I have watched a heck of a lot and this series has indeed overall very little to remember for. It had many tropes I don’t like, such as amnesia, time skips, too many recaps. And the erotism part, ok, it almost felt unneeded in such a setting; just extra fan service. The story is not that special, it is slow as heck, the characters are undermined because of that, the action is not great, and the talking is overdone. I give it the base score.

SUGGESTION LIST
Live action movies: Nikita, Leon
Anime series with assassins: Gunslinger Girls, Gungrave, Darker Than Black.
Anime series with chicks and guns: Madlax, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Black Lagoon.
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Old 2010-10-03, 19:43   Link #2679
Zwei
Natural Born Killer
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DAAAMMNNN!

Time sure flies by fast....it's been a year since this anime finished its run, and I still don't know what to think about the ending.

I need to find time and re-watch this series again (even though I rewatched it a couple of months ago), but it still remains one of my top favorite anime, and I must at least watch my favorite anime 3-4 times (I haven't watched any anime in 3 months...need to catch up with other stuff).

I still haven't gotten my hands on the manga yet! If anyone knows anything about the manga, please PM me.

P.S. I liked your review roriconfan. Both Leon and Nikita were great movies, but Leon is on a whole different level compared to Nikita. God, I love that movie to death.
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Old 2010-10-04, 05:46   Link #2680
roriconfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
Leon is on a whole different level compared to Nikita. God, I love that movie to death.
Leon is a category of its own.
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