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Old 2004-08-31, 23:53   Link #161
TerryMathews
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCntry
Unless I missed something, that's exactly what makes it the grey area...that the Japanese companies do not worry about groups outsourcing the anime to other countries. They recieve their 'profits' from advertisement and cable subscriptions, not by consumers purchasing the TV series while it's airing.

You may really wish to relook at the world of Fansubbing...believe me, I've been in it for a long time. Japanese companies aren't apathetic, they are actually embracing more and more the world that fansubbing has created. However, to each good side, there is a bad side, and there's been several reports that many companies aren't happy with fansubbing, but compared to the ones that are thrilled that their works are getting more diverse attention without the extra spending, it's a very small voice.

This is why it's all considered a grey area...many companies enjoy the free advertisement and increased chance of another distributor wishing to pay liscensing fees.
I was referring to the legal side of the matter, not the business side. Legally, there is no gray area, it is copyright infringement plain and simple. The fact that the Japanese companies do not press charges on traders means they are apathetic to the crimes being comitted against them.

(Warning - bad analogy ahead) Look at it like this. A guy steals your car and then totals it. Your baka insurance company gives you three times market value for the car. You were thinking of selling it anyway. You're apathetic to the crime comitted against you, because it's putting more money in your pocket, but it is still a crime.
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Old 2004-09-10, 09:53   Link #162
Ippo-Kun
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Hmmm it's kinda illegal to download english h-games, but anyway, most english h-games aren't even worst of using your bw downloading them illegally :P
i meant the translated ones... i think... unless ur talking about them as well
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Old 2004-09-10, 11:09   Link #163
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ippo-Kun
i meant the translated ones... i think... unless ur talking about them as well
It isn't allowed to link to anything considered like piracy here.
If you really want these, try searching, it's against the rules to help you for this
If you meant for the patches, then I dunno, but I don't think they are considered illegals ; you might always be owning the original game and be wanting an English patch.
But most games that are being fantranslated are very low in terms of % (though I think Anono should be around ~50%).
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Old 2004-09-12, 12:56   Link #164
DingoEnderZOE2
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Does anybody have Kakyuusei 2 yet? And if so what do you guys think about it? I can't say much on the game overall since I have yet to complete it with everyone because of two reasons: Time problems and the game is running kinda slow for me and it freezes up sometimes making it impossible to switch from looking at a guide,Typing up scenes from the game so I can translate them later on my Japanese program,and playing the game with ease. But from what I gotten so far the games pretty good, you can't easily win a girl just by going on repeated dates with them like you could in part 1.You have to get a certain event to get ALL of them(it seems) to completely love you and become winnable.I also like how theres more conversation with the girls in this game. The Mini games are pretty fun if not a bit too easy(Especially the whack a mole game).My only complant is There isn't a token snob rich guy in the game for the Main Character to mock and make fun of. I recommend the game to anyone who loved the prequel.
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Old 2004-09-29, 23:32   Link #165
Bflip
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
So far this year, they have been:

Fate/stay night
SHUFFLE!
CLANNAD
Aruru to Asobo!
Realize

My all time favorite list would compromise something like (in no particular order):

Dokyusei 1,2
Kono Sekai no Hatede Utau-mono YU-NO
Pia Carrot 1,2,3 TB
Shizuku
Kizuato
Saorin to Issho!
Hatsune no Naisho!
To Heart
Comic Party
Inagawa de Ikou!
Magical Antique
Utawarerumono
MOON
ONE
Kanon
AIR
Triangle Heart 1,2,3
SNOW
D+VINE LUV
Tobi D+VINE
Kana~Imouto~
Kazoku Keikaku
CROSS+CHANNEL
Tsukihime, PLUS+/-DISC, Kagetsu Touya
Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien
MuvLuv
Phatom~Phantom of Inferno~
Deus Machina Demonbaine
BALDR FORCE
Giniro
Clover Heart's
Wind-a Breath of Heart-
Mizuiro
Infantaria
Suika
D.C.~Da Capo~
Sorewa Maichiru Sakura no Youni
Kao no Nai Tsuki
Kichikuou Lance series
Dai Akuji
Dai Bancho
And those were just your favorites?!?!

O_O
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Old 2004-10-03, 09:52   Link #166
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bflip
And those were just your favorites?!?!

O_O
That means his game collection must be pretty big
Now I'm sure we wouldn't mind to have a description of the games and the reason why he likes them :P (don't hit me, I'm just joking!)
This is always pretty hard to give only one favorite game when you like a lot of them, trust me
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Old 2004-10-03, 11:12   Link #167
Thyrz
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Ive played CRC (my first h-game ) and it was very very funny in the beginning but it gets really boring so after 1 "happy ending" I wasn't in the mood to start all over again, so deleted it. NOT worth downloading/buying I'd say not sure about you guys.

Second game has, to my surprise, not been mentioned yet.. it's called Hana no Hime. This game is funny as hell!! It's a 3D(!) rape sim, all I can say. It still makes me laugh thinking about it. I've only played the first 10 minutes, but you actually move the character with arrow buttons and you can jump onto them with another button (forgot what it was). And the scences are 3D as well.

Well these are the only two games I've ever played so Id say Hana no Hime is by far better, and funnier!

Also figured this isn't really my thing so I'm gonna stick with Burnout 3: TAKEDOWN!!
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Old 2004-10-04, 01:34   Link #168
kj1980
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Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2
Does anybody have Kakyuusei 2 yet? And if so what do you guys think about it?
The main heroine and your osananajimi isn't a virgin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bflip
And those were just your favorites?!?!

O_O
Actually, since then, you can also add:

Tomodachi Ijou, Koibito Miman
Rance VI
Haru no Ashioto
Sorauta

to this year's favorite list
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Old 2004-10-04, 02:45   Link #169
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Now I'm sure we wouldn't mind to have a description of the games and the reason why he likes them
Fair enough. I won't go through all of them, but I will mention that are worth notable treatment that the majority of Japanese would agree that the following(s) were big titles that left a big impact on the ero-game industry history. However, as I go along, I'll start off with a little Japanese PC/ero-game history 101 to make things a lot more interesting.

Chapter One - the dawn of the era
Back in the 1980s, Japan was competing with the United States in establishing a computer standard (obviously, we all know who won). However, Japan was also competing within itself with different companies on who were to set the computer standard. NEC had the PC-88XX series, Sharp had its X1 series, Fujitsu with its FM-7 series, and the Matsushita-Sony-Sanyo triad were shelling out clones of its MSX computers.

Now, in the late 1980s to the early 1990s, there was something interesting going on in the Japanese computer market. NEC was releasing two different computers at the time - the PC-88XX for the home market, and the newer and faster PC-98XX series for the business market. At the same time, Sharp released its X68000 - a computer which had the processing power as fast as normal arcade machines at the time with excellent sound (PC-98XX lacked any sound support). Fujitsu released its FM-TOWNS series, which shocked the industry with being the first computer with standard internal CD-ROM drive.

One would assume that the PC-98XX, which lacked the "specials" that Sharp and Fujitsu had would be the loser in the computer race. However, NEC's PC-98XX series was clearing leading the path as it dominated the computer market in Japan.

Why? At the front, people were saying "softwares such as Ichitaro (A Japanese word processor) and Lotus 1-2-3 that I use at work are easy to install and use it at home too." The reality was "there are tons of ero-games for the PC-98XX!" and "I can spend four times as much and get the more powerful X68000, or I can settle for less and get the PC-98XX to play tons of ero-games!!"

The PC-98XX's picture quality was 16-bit, 4096 colors, with a screen resolution of 640 x 400 pixels. While this was not enough to put in normal pictures, it was good enough to display anime-type drawings at a pretty good quality. But then, you may say "The Sharp X68000 and the Fujitsu's FM-TOWNS series were able to handle over 30,000 colors - weren't those displays better to show even higher quality anime pictures?" Ah, touche. Yes, 30,000 colors would look better - except that at that time - games were still played on a thing called "a floppy disk" and only few pictures were be able to stored into a such a high/double density formatted floppy disk. And sure, the FM-TOWNS had the CD-ROM drive, but it was very slow (single speed), and there was no internal hard drive back then (the thought of installing software from a CD-ROM to your hard drive was not considered yet).

So the PC-98XX established itself as the computer standard for...ero-games. Ero-games back then were what it said: "an erotic game." Much of the software out there were simple no-brainer & no-story plotlines where you just rape a girl that pops up on the screen. It was good while it sold, but eventually people became exhausted in spending over 8800 yen for something that had mindless sex after sex with a plotline along the lines of a "bad 1980s American porno."

Hence, ASCII took a bold step with its "Chaos Angel" - an RPG ero-game. It's success lead to several softhouses such as Elf releasing "Dragon Knight" series, and AliceSoft's "Rance" series.

Yet, ero-games were still porno games. A postive light is that at least a good story and plot was introduced into a mindless ramble of "just having sex." But still, "to be an ero-game, it is obvious to have sex scenes" still stood. You still had weak sex/pick-up lines where "the main character goes around and fucks girls everywhere he sees, setting up his own harlem world. Even when an enemy female character comes along, he takes her as captive and rapes her. All the girls that meets the main character falls in love with him instantaneously."

Softhouses still clinged on to the idea that "who gives a crap about plot lines - ero-games sells because it has sex scenes!" However, consumers were once again getting bored of repetitive and boring ideas with cheap and somewhat obtrusive plot such as "the girl will die if she doesn't have sex, etc. etc."

I mean, c'mon after playing two or three of the same type of games with everything that is out there practically the same thing, do you want to spend another 8800 yen for something that is going to be as similar to what you just played?

Just when consumer frustration was mounting, Elf released what was to be the most successful ero-game at the time:

Dokyusei (1992)
The biggest thing that pulled in consumers was the amount of freedom this game had. You were able to control the main character and move freely among the [two] towns.

What was (and was probably Elf's risk and gamble) appalling was the idea "the main character does not need to fuck every girl he sees."

Elf did some thinking here.
A. Being an ero-game, these games needed to have sex in them
B. But sacrificing sex scenes in order to develop a detailed and interesting plot line will also get complaints from consumers: "why can't I have sex with this character? yada yada)
C. Yet, if we were to listen to all of their arguments and have the main character go around having sex with every girl he sees, then its the same thing as the other dozens or so games that are already out there.

The answer?

E. Why not have stories for each different female character, so that the player (consumer) can go after which girl he likes - and if he wants to, can play it again and go after a different girl next time?

The Simulation RPG genre was born.

What the consumers felt by playing this revolutionary game:
A. There is no "easy sex" here - the player actually had to make the correct choices to make the girl you like to like you as well.
B. You get the motivation that "Yes! I'm one step closer to getting laid" by going on dates, etc. etc.
C. And the reward that you get after going through the hardships, you are rewarded with a sex scene.

Elf also went one step further by "how to make the pictures look as if it has many different colors when we can only use 16 colors?" Elf's devised a rather remarkable dither management in combining different colors over another per pixel to "make-believe" that many colors exist was practically an art on its own.

Last edited by kj1980; 2004-10-05 at 21:50.
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Old 2004-10-04, 03:50   Link #170
kj1980
kaii~...kana? kana?
 
 
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Age: 33
Chapter Two - Visual Novels

The next "big thing" for the computer was the introduction of....hard drives. This was the era where no USB nor IEEE1394 existed. Nor was any connectors were on the machine board itself. What you had to do back then was to buy a SASI/SCSI interface card and add the hard drive externally. And, it wasn't as easy as just hooking up the cable - you had tons of driver tweakings and jumper settings to work around with "just to get it work right."

Still, people wanted the hard drive even though it was pretty confusing to set up.

One theory exists is that the driving force was once again, ero-games.

As mentioned in the previous post, "Dokyusei" was a big hit. The game came in eight floppy disks. This game can be played in two different ways:

A. Copy and install the files onto your hard drive
B. Play it from the floppy itself.

If you didn't have a hard drive, you were forced with a very annoying pop-up screen like the following:

1. You go into a house in the map screen
2. "Please insert Disk H into DISK DRIVE 2"
3. Nothing was in the house, and you leave
4. "Please insert Disk D into DISK DRIVE 2"
5. Back at the map screen.

Irritating, ain't it? Supposed you accidentally went into a place where you know nothing was in there. You are constantly told to change the disk in drive 2 for each and every time you go somewhere new. Aaagh!!!

By the time the sequel, "Dokyusei 2" came out, the game data expanded itself into a whopping 13 floppy disks!

By then NEC finally realized the necessity of CD-ROM drives, and started including them in their latest PC-9821 model, boasting 256 displayable colors from 16 million available colors.


Around this time, a Super Famicom game called "Otogirisou" was getting much attention. This was a simple adventure/mystery story with an added twist - multi-endings existed in this game. And as the player progressed by completing each ending, a new selection pop-up appeared where there wasn't. Combining background pictures and music, you read the text on the screen and moved the story foward. ChunSoft (the company that made "Otogirisou") called this revolutionary idea as a "sound novel."


Shizuku (1996)
One relatively new softhouse, Leaf, thought that this might be a good idea to introduce into the ero-game market. With its previous two games being a flop, they decided to gamble by experimenting with the success of the sound novel genre. Leaf decided to take one step further by adding the characters and their facial expressions in addition to just the background and the music and called it a "visual novel."

You (the consumer) read as you are the main character (Nagase Yuuichi) of the story, as you dwleve deeper and deeper into the psychotic world of "doku denpa" (roughly translated as "poisonous electromagnetic waves") brain-washing girls into suicide and mass rape.

Kizuato (1996)
Leaf had another story in mind to go along with Shizuku. If their visual novel experiment failed, they decided to disband. If it was successful, they left its next idea aside so they can release it as soon as their experiment was successful.

Obviously, "Shizuku" did fairly well in its sales - at least they didn't have stockpiles of returned games as they did in their previous two flopped games.

So Leaf immediately released "Kizuato," their second installement in their Visual Novel series.

You (the consumer) once again read the story from the standpoint of the main character (Kashiwagi Kouichi) who dreams that he is going around murdering people. Then, the murder that he dreamt last night came to be the real thing on the news he say the next day? Am I the killer? Am I going around murdering people in the night!?

To Heart (1997)
The third installment of Leaf's Visual Novel series established themselves in becoming one of the leaders of the current ero-game industry.

180 degrees different from its previous two visual novels, "To Heart" was a heart-warming high school love story.

You (the consumer) read the story from the standpoint of second-year high school student, Fujita Hiroyuki. During the course of the spring semester, you meet different girls - all of whom have something special and you choose to fall in love with one of them.

Perhaps the biggest hit was the extremely heart-warming story of one cute little maid robot named HMX-12 Multi. Multi's hard work, the sad good-bye, and the dramatic ending where they meet once again ran tears down many eyes. Interestingly, the main heroine of the game was supposed to be Kamigishi Akari, but fan overwhelmingly voted Multi as the most favorite character in the game. Multi, in fact, has established itself as an iconic figure in the otaku world.

The CD-DA vocal music that was used in this ero-game (unprecedented at the time) was such a dramatic hit that it was selected to be a song to be sung at karaoke machines (also, unheard of - karaoke machines have the latest hit songs, but never was a vocal music from an ero-game ever introduced into karaoke tracks)


The success and effect of Leaf's gamble was immediately recognized. Many have been pondering "what is the best way to have consumers enjoy ero-games and have them play a good game at the same time?" The answer was what Leaf had just done: Visual Novels.

A. This system is rather simple and straight foward game, yet open to limitless possibilities
B. All you need is several great pictures, good music, and a great storyline.
C. No need for mind-boggling high-level programming or to think about game balances
D. If you have the right staff, a great game can be made with little investment

Hence, many softhouses began to take this path. Visual Novels have arrived.
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Old 2004-10-04, 07:49   Link #171
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
"doku denpa" (roughly translated as "poisonous electromagnetic waves")
"Denpa" means "electromagnetic waves"? Well, that explains many things!

You've written a lot for AnimeSuki, but this essay is really great and has learned me a lot about the Japanese software industry that I did not know anything about before. I think I ought to archive it on my domain, or something.

edit: Is it okay with you if I reproduce your posts, public domain?

Last edited by Shii; 2004-10-04 at 11:12.
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Old 2004-10-04, 09:49   Link #172
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
"Denpa" means "electromagnetic waves"? Well, that explains many things!

You've written a lot for AnimeSuki, but this essay is really great and has learned me a lot about the Japanese software industry that I did not know anything about before. I think I ought to archive it on my domain, or something.
Or chop out the posts and put them into a sticky in this forum. Save some time in case anyone ever asks. Very informative.
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Old 2004-10-04, 12:52   Link #173
kj1980
kaii~...kana? kana?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 33
Chapter Three - "Crying games" hit the standard"

Formerly, the I/O systems for most games were very keyboard oriented. For example, you would type in "GET KEY" to get a key on the screen to open a door later in the game. One problem is that computers are stupid. For example, the door wouldn't open when you type in "open door," but you'd had to type in "kick door" to have it budge.

Hence, many ero-games became mouse pointer oriented. Dokyusei had mouse pointers with selections such as "rub breasts," or "finger the clitoris."

But, as the visual novels started to become the standard for ero-games, less and less selection points came into play - the main point of visual novels was that selection points were popped up only when it became to deal with what is going to happen in the story:

A. You decide to run away (leads to bad ending)
B. You decide to face your fears up front (continues story)

Consumers didn't want some flashy and hard to remember keyboard inputs nor spend two hours reading the manual just to figure out how to play the damn thing. They want it to install it and play it ASAP. Solution - simplify.

Since then, the gaming system engines for ero-games were tweaked little by little to give the best possible engine that is user-friendly to the consumers.

Now by this time, computers were running on the Windows 95 platform. Ero-game makers suddenly had much more freedom in doing CG art - now they can utilize as many colors as they want and store as much more data on a medium called the CD-ROM.

Elf's "Kono Sekai no Hate de Utau mono ~YUNO~" was perhaps the last game that was released for the DOS format - with much acclaim and show that will be remembered as the pinnacle of artistic work of DOS ero-games.


Now, as I mentioned in the previous post, "To Heart" was a major hit game. Multi's story was so heart-warming that it gave a hypothesis to one softhouse that perhaps heart-warming stories that make the player cry were the thing to make a hit.

ONE ~kagayaku kisetsu e~ (1998)
The core members of the softhouse, Tactics thought up of a simple formula:

(comedic first half) + (heart-warming romantic middle) + (tragic separation) + (emotional get together) = "crying game"

"ONE" was exactly written in this formula.

You play the role of a high school students named Sasaori Kouhei, who on the surface is enjoying high school life by meeting several girls. But deep within in his inner self, you yearn to spend an eternity with your sister, who died several years ago - one in which you blame yourself for her death.

The first half of the game is very comedic and fun. However here and there, you have philosophical flashbacks about "sheeps in the field" and "the infinite sky." Around the turning point, you have a heart-warming romantic relationship with a girl that you'd chosen. However, this where everything starts a down turn - suddenly, people that knew you before begins to forget about you. One by one, your friends and teachers starts to forget that you even exist - this is because you've chosen the path to spend an eternity rather than make yourself exist in this world. Tragedy is that you'd just started a romantic relationship...will the person that you professed that you love also forget about you as well!?

Of course, it is up to the scenario writer to how well he can write a story that makes the consumer read onto the story without ever realizing that its all a matter of a simple formula (think: Stephen King novels - they are all the same formula, but it's still a best seller)

Kanon (1999)
The creators of "ONE" realized that their formula was indeed what made a game successful. The main creators broke off from tactics and started their own softhouse - Key, to create one of the pinnacles of ero-game history to date.

"Kanon" was released on June 4, 1999. Speculation was amounting that this game is a major "watch-for" item even before it went on sale. The beautiful CG art, the astounding music, and the atmosphere of the story was captivating. Consumers were wondering, "would these guys that disbanded from tactics be capable of doing something greater than their previous work?"

They did.

"Kanon" was created somewhat of a anti-thesis of "ONE." Instead of the main character going to eternity, this time it was the heroines who had something. Mainly, Tsukimiya Ayu was indeed a spiritual being who runs around the town looking for her beloved Yuuichi - with a very emotional ending.

"Kanon" is touted as the best ero-game of all time. Well, that is a subject open to debate, but it sure did leave deep marks for not only the ero-game industry, but for otakus all across Japan. "Kanon" was such a big hit - that it is not that surprising to say "you cannot call yourself an otaku without going through the baptism of playing Kanon."


The success of "ONE" and "Kanon" on their formula to creat a "crying game" was adopted by many softhouses. For example, just to mention a few:

D.O.'s "Kana ~Imouto"
KID's "Memories Off" (non-ero game)
CIRCUS' "D.C.~da capo~"
Studio Mebius' "SNOW"
minori's "Wind ~a breath of heart"

were all major hit ero-games that can be said that they were very much influenced by Key's formula.

Even age's "Kimi ga Nozomu Eien" was somewhat of a twist of this formula by adding in a "diluted and dirty love triangle relationship" into the scenario play.



As the Visual Novel standard was adopted, the erotic parts in ero-games began to become less and less apparent. More and more people who used to reject such type of games began to become more open-minded that it isn't just about sex anymore. And as more and more softhouses began to adopt the "crying game" standard, both the industry and the consumers began to look at "hey, ero-games CAN have great stories after all!"

Hence, a successful ero-game transformed itself from:

[hard-core porno games with mindless sex] -------> [heart-warming love simulation game with an added touch of sex]
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Old 2004-10-04, 13:03   Link #174
DingoEnderZOE2
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Join Date: May 2004
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Quote:
The main heroine and your osananajimi isn't a virgin...
And there were like two girls in the game who wore something I had never seen in a Elf game until I played Kakyuusei 2:PANTS!! And Yes it was a bit of a surprise that the main female character isn't a virgin(And judging from how she acted she probably did it alot.) combined with the whole pants thing this was pretty refreshing.

Kj1980 also once again you always tell us some informative things. And as always you have our thanks for coming here and telling us things most of us wouldn't know about without you.I especially wanted to know how the whole Ero-industry evolved so you get a big SANKYUU from me.
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Old 2004-10-04, 13:33   Link #175
kj1980
kaii~...kana? kana?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 33
Chapter Four - Importation of such games into Console Consumer Market

It is obvious that "games with better story" had more "citizenship rights" to be imported over to the console market than cheap-sex games.

One of the first ero-games to be imported over to the console was Elf's "Dragon Knight 2" which was released on the PC-Engine.

To be imported meant several things:
A. The game was successful enough that it could be sold on consumer consoles
B. But of course, there are tighter restricitions on console systems, so erotic sex scenes need to be cut out

On the plus side, the consumer console market had some pretty good gaming systems that they were capable of doing something that the ero-games for the PC couldn't back then - add character voices.

Elf's "Dokyusei" also followed in a similar fashion - first on the PC-Engine and then on the Sega Saturn. F&C's "Pia Carrot" series lead the path by importing much of their series onto the console format. And Leaf attained much success to non-PC users by heavily promoting their "To Heart" game onto the Sony Playstation.

During the mid 1990s, the console game industry was moving from the triad lead of Super Famicom/Sega Megadrive/NEC PC-Engine towards the dual superpowers of Sony Playstation vs Sega Saturn. During this time, the PC-Engine was becoming a dying format in which it managed to survive as long as it could by utilizing its voice capability on its CD-ROM2. The Sega Saturn and its successor, the Sega Dreamcast will inevitably follow a similar pattern as well. The last Dreamcast sale was on December of 2001, but still importation of ero-games onto the Dreamcast still continues to this date, such as:

Tsuki wa Higashi ni, Hi wa Nishi ni ~Operation Sanctuary~ (2004.6)
Patishe Nyanko ~hatsukoi wa ichigo aji~ (2004.9)
Suigetsu ~Mayoi gokoro~ (2004.10)

What is happening to the industry as a whole is that they began to understand that hard-core maniacs are suckers:

A. An ero-game is released on the Windows platform
B. If the game was successful, it will be imported onto the Dreamcast with sex scenes cut out. As an added plus on removing sex scenes, new scenarios, event graphics, and possibly a new character may be introduced on the Dreamcast version
C. Wait several months later, and release the game onto the more popular PS2 format. Some alterations are made, perhaps the OP theme might be changed to distinguish it from the Dreamcast version. As a plus for those who bought the Dreamcast version, they might add some more new scenarios
D. After several months, they will re-import all the added items from the consumer console release back into the PC format as an "all ages version"
E. Or they may re-import all the added items from the consumer console release and re-add the sex scenes to all the new characters that they added.

Hard-core maniacs are suckers. They will buy all of them. Each time a new "release" is made, the makers add something special into them that drags Mr. Yukichi (the guy on the 10,000 yen bill) out of our wallets.

Here's an example of some extreme manipulation:
1. An ero-game called "Green Green" was released
2. They decide to release two different consumer console versions of "Green Green" - one for the XBox titled "Green Green ~Kane no Iro Dynamic~" and the other for the PS2 "Green Green ~Kane no Iro Romantic~." Both had new extra characters on them...except that the added character on the XBox version was different from the the added character in the PS2 version
3. HOWEVER! Since the XBox isn't doing so well in Japan, they've decided to drop the XBox version "Green Green ~Kane no Iro Dynamic" all together and release that for the PS2 instead
4. BUT! They still released the original PS2 version's "Green Green ~Kane no Iro Romantic" as well
5. Hence what you ended up was that you had two games with the same title on the same PS2 platform, with each version having two different extra characters than the other!
6. Basically, what the softhouse is saying is that "if you want to play the two new characters, you have to buy both versions"

Hard core maniacs are suckers. We know it ourselves. They know it all too well too. But then, what the softhouses are doing is nothing more than following basic Japanese marketing strategy that had developed since the 1970s - milking money out of people who will buy them (I believe that the American anime distributor ADVFilms is practically following this marketing strategy from what I have been reading on this board for the past year or so).

What is happening here is that instead of "having your favorite game being imported onto the console game that you own," it is more like "when your favorite ero-game is imported, you HAVE to buy all of them"
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Old 2004-10-04, 15:15   Link #176
kj1980
kaii~...kana? kana?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 33
Chapter Five - Ero-games becoming Anime

Actually, this isn't all that new. Many ero-games did become animated. However, they were only restriced to being "18 and older" pornographic OVA anime releases. It is simple to say that "well duh, the original game was erotic, isn't it obvious that the anime is going to be porno material for the adult video market?" However, the truth was that the anime versions of these ero-games barely touched on the actual story and plot lines - most of the animated parts were focused on sex scenes. In a sense, these OVAs were not truly "the anime version of the original ero-game."

But then, one anime began to open a path to change all that. In 1998, an anime called "Night Walker ~Midnight Detective" was aired as a twelve episode anime series (obviously sex scenes were cut out). The original ero-game was released back in 1993. This is the first actual anime TV series that was based on an ero-game. Around the same time, "Dokyusei 2" also aired, but this was more like "re-hashing the erotic OVA episodes, and editing them without the sex scenes for airing on TV."

While it "Night Walker" and "Dokyusei 2" did get attention at the time, the anime itself didn't do so well.

However, in the same year, the TV series "Sentimental Journey" which was based on the gal-game "Sentimental Graffitti" did pretty well (pretty ironic since the original game was crap). The success of this ignited the light that "TV anime inspired by ero/gal-games actually had some market value"

The first real successful TV anime that was inspired by an ero-game was technically AQUAPLUS' (the consumer arm of the softhouse Leaf) "To Heart" in April of 1999.

By this time, the Japanese anime industry was in a situation where dozens or so anime companies were scrambling against each other for short 13~26 episode late-night spots on TV channels. Otakus call this "shinya-waku ranritsu jidai" (The war of late night TV spots).

Anime companies wanted ideas fast to get a lead from their competitiors. Ero-game companies yearned to "make something like an anime, but don't have the money to do so." Eventually, the two got their points together, and you started have more and more anime based on ero/gal-games being released.

Just from what I can think of, here are the "anime based on ero/gal-games as they increased by year":

1998
Dokyusei 2
Night Walker ~Midnight Detective~
Kakyusei ~Anata dake o Mitsumete~
Sentimental Journey

1999
To Heart
Kakyusei

2000
Sakura Taisen

2001
Comic Party
Sakura Taisen ~the Movie~

2002
Kanon
Pia Carrot e Youkoso! the Movie ~ Sayaka no Koi Monogatari~

2003
Lime-iro Senkitan
Green Green
D.C. ~da capo~
Popotan
Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien
Shingetsutan Tsukihime

2004
Kita he ~Diamond Dust Drops~
Yumeria
Tsuki wa Higashi ni, Hi wa Nishi ni ~ Operation Sanctuary~
Wind -a breath of Heart-
To Heart ~ Remember my Memories~
Kakyusei 2 ~Hitomi no Nakano Shoujo Tachi~
Mahou Shoujo Lilikal Nanoha
Final Approach
W ~Wish~
Harukanaru Toki no Nakade
Myneribe

2005
AIR (TV series)
AIR (the movie)
Suki na Mono wa Suki dakara Shouganai
IZUMO2
Lime-iro Senkitan X
MuvLuv (?)

As you can see, more and more big-hit ero-games started coming onto the TV anime format. Leaf's "Comic Party," CIRCUS' "D.C. ~da capo~," Key's "Kanon," and age's "Kimi ga Nozomu Eien," just to name a few.

Then again, there are also anime based on ero-games that didn't do so modestly - such as "Popotan" and "Yami to Hon no Tabibito." These were more like they were selected due to the high quality of their CG work (both of these ero-games were done by pretty famous illustrators). In the end, even a doujin game - TYPE-MOON's "Tsukihime" went on to become an anime. Right now, it is not so modest to say that currently, "ero-games are created with an anime market in their view." I mean I'm sure I am not the only one who already sees "Fate/stay night" as an obvious anime marketing material.

In 2001, the first movie based on a all-ages love simulation game was released - Sakura Taisen The Movie. In 2002, "Pia Carrot ~Sayaka~" became the first anime movie that was based on an ero-game. Early next year, the second anime movie based on an ero-game, "AIR" will be released. It is astounding that the director for this is Sir Dezaki Osamu - a highly respected veteran anime director who directed major classic anime hits such as "Kyojin no Hoshi" and "Ace o Nerae!" In 2005, the first TV anime based on a ero-bishounen game (ero-game targeted for girls), "Suki na Mono wa Suki dakara Shouganai" will also begin airing on TV. The momentum for ero-game turned anime is unstoppable.

Non-erotic bishoujo games turned anime also increased. As noted above, in addition to "Sentimental Journey" (based on "Sentimental Graffitti"), you have "Kita e ~Diamond Dust Drops~," "Sakura Taisen," and "Harukanaru Toki no Nakade."

Perhaps, you can also add animes such as "Sister Princess" and "HAPPY LESSON" to the list. I mean, "you suddenly have 12 young sister all in love with you," or "you have five beautiful moms as your teachers looking after you." The plot line screams that it could've come from an ero-game. But, I intentionally left these two out since these two were original ideas that were serialized on Dengeki G's Magazine.


Then what kind of anime do these ero/gal game based stories evolve into? Well, duh. If you take in what was in the original story as an anime, you have a single male lead revolving around dozens of pretty girls - a typical harlem anime. While going through each sub-heroines' story, the main plot line evolves by maintaining and growing the relationship between the main male lead and the main heroine. Then there are those anime where no male lead exists at all and everything is told from the female characters' point of view ("Popotan" and "Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito"). And then, there are those anime where each episode focuses on each individual female characters without the existence of a male lead ("Kita e" and "Sentimental Journey")

And then there are some interesting titles such as the anime version of "Comic Party." The main story of the anime involved the male lead, Sendou Kazuki working hard to attain the pinnacle of the doujin world. Interestingly, this ero-game based anime had the female characters as supporting roles rather than a love interest.

"Mahou Shoujo Lilikal Nanoha," which currently started airing this season is also pretty interesting to note about. This all began as a spin-off of the ero-game "Triangle Heart 3 ~ Sweet Songs Forever~" as a joke. The extra joke story within the original game was "what if we take the main character's younger sister and make it into a magical girl story?" (Think of it as something like the relationship of "Tenchi Muyo" to "Pretty Sammy" or "SoulTaker" and "Nurse Witch Komugi-chan"). Somehow this joke began to turn into reality (which is why the saying goes in Japanese anime industry "don't make a joke without thinking about the consequences"). What you have here now is a mahou shojo story that was originally developed as a joke plot within an ero-game.


Another interesting note is on the voices for these types of ero-game turned anime (or ero-game turned consumer console games). There are usually two ways these occur:

A. The seiyuu cast is entirely different from the ero-game and the anime/console version ("D.C. ~da capo~")
B. The seiyuus sound exactly the same, but the names are different

Focusing on "B," you have a character on the ero-game version and a character in the anime whose seiyuu's names are different, but they sound exactly the same. This is because the seiyuus use pseudonyms (even they themselves don't mind, their talent agency does not want the image of their seiyuus doing the voices for an erotic game, especially if they are rather well known seiyuus). Hence, what you have is something written like "the reason why you think they sound the same is because the seiyuus are long-lost relatives to each other" (How it was explained on NekoNeko Soft's HP for the consumer versus ero-game version for their game, "Mizuiro")

Say for instance, you have a big name female seiyuu who has leads roles in NHK children's anime show, using a pseudonym when she plays the role of a nice and grudging sister on a big hit ero-game (more bluntly: Mizuhashi Kaori = Uehara Tomomi). And you have a big name male seiyuu who in the light plays the role of a hard-broiled car driver while he uses a different name to make appearances in many ero-games. (Once again, more bluntly: Koyasu Takehito = Jumonji Hayato)
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Old 2004-10-04, 15:23   Link #177
Archuka
A territory most absolute
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Finland
Age: 28
Thanks for the interesting read kj.

I have only played three ero games. Kana ~Imouto~ (DO), Ecchi na Bunny-san wa kirai? 2 (ZyX) and Tsuki: Possession (ZyX).

Everyone already knows about Kana, so I'll just say I agree with them. It's very touching and it has very little sex. I think it's possible to get to at least one ending without seeing one sex scene.

DYLHB?2 was more hardcore. It didn't have much of a story and while the characters were pretty interesting and had different peronalities, they were also a bit cliché. You know, there is something for everyone (except small breasts).
I found the game to be quite enjoyable despite it's very straightforward nature. The story (or whatever you want to call it) is quite happy. Nothing bad really happens to the protagonist and it puts you on a cheerful mood.

The artwork is simply amazing. The art style is one of my all time favourites in any anime/manga related product and the quality of the drawings is top notch. Some H-scenes are also animated, although they're only short looping animations.

I'm not yet done with Tsuki, so I can't say much about it, except the protagonist is a psycho, which I really dislike. He suddenly starts hearing voices in his head, gains knowledge in chemistry, hypnotism and possibly other subjects. Then he basically rapes girls or just blackmails them into having sex with him.

Again, amazing artwork from ZyX. The game looks very much like DYLHB?2, although the atmoshpere is radically different.
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Old 2004-10-04, 16:47   Link #178
DarkCntry
Blue Dawn
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Kana is probably one of the very few that you can get through the entire game and only have a single sex scene. Yumi's antagonist role in many of the story arcs is something that has to be done, no matter what course you take, you will have one ero scene.

Basically my likes for ero's became obvious for the ones that emphasized a deeper story over random sex. I'm not much fond of games like Tsuki or it's related brethren. Games like Bible Black with their 'kinky' nature are borderline for me because their story is far more engaging, but the scenes are far more hardcore. Games like Kana, Heart de Roommate, Private Nurse, and Crescendo all created an atmosphere of relationship and meaning before it pursued into the world of sex, and even when it did delve into the sex side of things, it kept it more emotional than erotic. Games like Chain which incorporate sex as a main plotline is something of an enigma to me, I enjoyed it despite me not normally liking the whole "sleep with everything that walks" feel. The way they incorporated sex as a story-driven element is probably what helped it for me. Then comes KGNE...a game that has quite a bit of erotic elements but also forged onto a very deep and thought-provoking story. I'm guessing because it was a story I can easily relate to is what kept me playing it and then watching the anime. The same could be said to DC and Kanon, however I haven't been capable of playing all of DCs games.

There is yet another game that I didn't think I'd be interested in at all, Divi-Dead...the thriller/horror-style story kept me further engaged while the erotic scenes just kept a specific flow of the game going. I think it was just because there are actually only a few of the titles out there that have been localized to English that have the style of story that Divi-Dead had, I had become fascinated by it's depth.
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Old 2004-10-05, 03:31   Link #179
bluemist
i am the mist
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Hard core maniacs are suckers. We know it ourselves. They know it all too well too. But then, what the softhouses are doing is nothing more than following basic Japanese marketing strategy that had developed since the 1970s - milking money out of people who will buy them (I believe that the American anime distributor ADVFilms is practically following this marketing strategy from what I have been reading on this board for the past year or so).

What is happening here is that instead of "having your favorite game being imported onto the console game that you own," it is more like "when your favorite ero-game is imported, you HAVE to buy all of them"
Very crazy indeed! Softhouses haven't heard of that other great technology called 'expansion packs'. Yea, they feel the need to repackage the same game and just add itty bitty extras and still make it sell, instead of upgrades to the existing game.

Because I liked the anime Da Capo I researched about the game, then I find out it was not just 'one game'. I have seen a hell lot of titles with DC on it (DCPS, DCPC, DCWS, DCSV). I have tried DCPC myself (DCPC = Da Capo + new characters), and I can tell a 'late Da Capo fan' will be lucky because (tell me if I'm wrong because I'm not Japanese) there is an option to play the original game without the new characters on it. It's like having the original DC as well.

And then milking further in terms of remakes (Leaf Visual Novel Series?) and sequels (what's with Memories Off/Pia Carrot 3.xx numbers?) and spinoffs (Akane Maniax) and fandiscs (too many to mention).

kj1980: Thanks for that interesting ero-game history and look-back by the way!
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Old 2004-10-05, 04:00   Link #180
sarcasteak
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: World overloaded with fun
Age: 30
My goodness, kj1980, you've really outdone yourself this time! I'll be sure to give you a positive rep as soon as I'm allowed to!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemist
Because I liked the anime Da Capo I researched about the game, then I find out it was not just 'one game'. I have seen a hell lot of titles with DC on it (DCPS, DCPC, DCWS, DCSV). I have tried DCPC myself (DCPC = Da Capo + new characters), and I can tell a 'late Da Capo fan' will be lucky because (tell me if I'm wrong because I'm not Japanese) there is an option to play the original game without the new characters on it. It's like having the original DC as well.
Yah, there was a lot of DCs...I was quite surprised when I found out, too.
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