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Old 2004-10-04, 02:33   Link #41
Umbrae
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: here
I would say Kerry won, but not by much.

Bush made one good point.

Kerry said he would not pull out of Iraq, but yet he admits it is the wrong war, at the wrong time, in the wrong place. That does not send a good message to your fighting force. But it does send an honest one, that any thinking soldier already knows.

Where as bush made a Terrible point in his arguments. That he does not change his stance, yet kerry does. Politicians NEED to be flexable. When you realize your plan is not working, you need to change it. Not changing your stance is the bravodo of grade school child, not the president of the united states. Could you imagine if FDR had never changed his stance for the new deal? That would have worked great.

Kerry Managed to make good points in critisizing the presidents policies, where as the president over and over again just pointed out that kerry changes his stance on issues.
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Old 2004-10-04, 03:12   Link #42
Shadowlord
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Didn't watch much of the debate, seeing as I am not american, I didn't really care much. From what little I saw, I think Kerry had the better responses whereas Bush just answered like an idiot. The word "flipflop was used 10 times in the 5 minutes I watched. I can honestly say, i did get a good laugh from that. It's funny, because im sure bush had quite a few notes, who wrote them? That person should be fired.

on a side note, If you are unsure of your standpoint, take this test to see if you are a democrat or a republican.

http://www.loveinwar.com/game.cfm

i am a left wing communist, lol
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Old 2004-10-04, 03:21   Link #43
Umbrae
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Is it just me, or every time president bush speaks, does he pick a topic. In every speach he has made it seems like he has a catch phrase.

Terrorism

WMD

Flip flop

September 11th

freedom


all seem to be previous catch phrases. This is the reason I hate listing to him speak. He picks one phrase and will use it 20+ times in a speach. The entier rest of the speach will ammount to


Blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah Terroist, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah WMD blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah Terroism blah blah blah. Al queda blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah Saddam blah blah blah. Terrosim blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah Terroist blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah.
Terrorist blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah Ossama blah blah. blah blah blah blah 9/11 blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah Terroism. blah blah blah blah Saddam blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah Terroist. blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah freedom blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah Terroist freedom with WMD blah blah blah blah. Space aliens ate my brain with terroist help blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah blah. blah blah. blah blah blah Terroist. blah blah blah blah Al Queda blah blah blah blah. WMD blah blah blah blah. blah blah blah blah freedom blah blah. blah blah.
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Old 2004-10-04, 03:48   Link #44
JERI
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Old 2004-10-04, 05:28   Link #45
Sanjuronord
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Kerry said he would not pull out of Iraq, but yet he admits it is the wrong war, at the wrong time, in the wrong place. That does not send a good message to your fighting force. But it does send an honest one, that any thinking soldier already knows.
Y'know what I really hate about that? Kerry criticizes Bush's decisions and Bush's response is to hide behind the troops rather than defending his decisions. Course that is pretty much the normal defense in Bush's politics, shift the blame or focus off of him.
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Old 2004-10-04, 07:24   Link #46
Green²
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowlord
Didn't watch much of the debate, seeing as I am not american, I didn't really care much. From what little I saw, I think Kerry had the better responses whereas Bush just answered like an idiot. The word "flipflop was used 10 times in the 5 minutes I watched. I can honestly say, i did get a good laugh from that. It's funny, because im sure bush had quite a few notes, who wrote them? That person should be fired.
No notes, no teleprompter, no Cheney. Yes, everything that Bush said came from his head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Is it just me, or every time president bush speaks, does he pick a topic. In every speach he has made it seems like he has a catch phrase.

Terrorism

WMD

Flip flop

September 11th

freedom


all seem to be previous catch phrases. This is the reason I hate listing to him speak. He picks one phrase and will use it 20+ times in a speach. The entier rest of the speach will ammount to

...*snip*...
You forgot God! Ha! hahaha!
/Poland

Spoiler for how many see the whole debate...:
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Old 2004-10-04, 08:36   Link #47
Umbrae
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Oh, I forgot poland.

Army: 87,877 (3 Mechanized Divisions and 1 Armoured Division)
918 MBT, 1359 AFV/APC, 1092 Artillery (120mm or greater ), 170 Army Helicopters.

Air Force: 31,147 (Air and Air Defense Corps)
97 Fighter, 232 FGA/Training, 173 Transport/Helicopter.

Navy: 15,976 (1 Battle Fleet, 2 Coastal Defense Brigades)
1 Destroyer, 5 Corvette, 9 Frigate, 3 Submarine, 57 Auxillary, 79 Navy Aircraft.

Troops in Iraq: 2,500


Honestly, I do not think poland should be forgotten, or ridiculed for thier assistance at all. But I do not blame people for forgetting them. They have a total military force of 135,000. 18% of which went to Iraq. The american forces in Iraq outnumber the Polish forces worldwide. If bush is counting 2,500 troops as one of the largest contibuters in this grand collition of the willing, it does bring into perspective how truly sad this collition is. Of course the fact that none of the countries we needed to gather troops in for invasion were listed. Also, the fact that many of our strongest (pre bush) Nato allies were missing, such as Canada. If Iraq is, or was such a threat to the US, you think Canada might be concerened, beeing so close by, and holding similar western values.

Full list of coalition countries:

Afghanistan (does This even count? they have no military, and we are STILL training thier millitia!), Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia (Troops need good coffie, and some one to smuggle in the cocain, and run off with the opium), the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia (Actualy this was only Brendan Fraser playing Link from Encino Man again), Ethiopia (Realizing no food grew in Iraq either they left), Georgia (Thats a country? hell I thought it was part of the US), Hungary, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines (Yes the country Al Queda traning camps helps remove terroist from Iraq. . . Perhaps they consider this training on how to remove terrorist?), Poland (YOU CANNOT FORGET POLAND), Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom (I am supprized they listed UK, with some of these countrys I would almost expect to see England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland) and Uzbekistan.

I wish all these countries offered even the ammount of support Poland did (hush UK, and Astralia I know you did more, thank you but you are the exception, not the rule this time arround). 2,500 x 28 (30 minus the two over achivers) = 70,000 extra troops. Unfortunatly, most of this collition deployed less than 100.
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Old 2004-10-04, 12:05   Link #48
Bun-kun
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Umbrae, /clap

That's an awesome summary of our "coalition" in Iraq. You're right there should be more troops from all these country, obviously the adminstration just went around these country and just ask for there signature so they can say they have a "coalition." Yet another political ploy by the republican party like the color code terror alert thing.

Oh no the president is losing favor crank it to Maroon for the moron!
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Old 2004-10-04, 13:28   Link #49
Green²
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Spoiler for Threat level raised...:
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Old 2004-10-04, 14:00   Link #50
Animizzle
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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You american's are screwed anyway..

AS ACIENT EGYPTE, ROMAN EMPIRE AND NAPOLEON ONCE COLLAPSED. ALL GREAT EMPIRE ARE BOUND TO DESTROY THEMSELVES WITHOUT OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE.

offcourse that's not a bad thing, Im guessing swaziland will be the next world power.

and we'll be laughing in our shitty little country who neither has the guts nor power to do anything themselves but still buy useless piece of shit missles and planes for no apparant reason.
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Old 2004-10-04, 16:37   Link #51
Sanjuronord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Also, the fact that many of our strongest (pre bush) Nato allies were missing, such as Canada. If Iraq is, or was such a threat to the US, you think Canada might be concerened, beeing so close by, and holding similar western values.
The day after the debate when he was criticizing Kerry's "world standards" view of war and basically said that Iraq had been a matter of national security that he didn't need the approval of the world was pretty funny. I mean what part of Iraq did he feel we were threatened by, if Iraq is a matter of national security to him than so are a dozen other countries and that's a pretty scary thought. Last poll I saw on CNN/Headline News was 49/49 for Bush/Kerry and that's after the debate on Bush's strongest approval area. Can't help but think that there is some hope left for this country but I'm not holding my breathe just yet...
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Old 2004-10-04, 17:02   Link #52
wnkryo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuronord
...I mean what part of Iraq did he feel we were threatened by...

Are you kidding me? How couldn't you find the Kabab sellers and llama taimers of Iraq not a threat to national security!?
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Old 2004-10-04, 17:13   Link #53
JOJOS'STAR
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Meh.. I've been reading from past pages.. F?%$@ it. Anyway I win. Cause I vote for none of them. I'm Canadian ^^
I would prefer having Al Gore at the white house. I hate both Bush an Kerry.
If I was american I'd probably vote Kerry before another Al-kaida drivin my bus to work kills me. Thats all I have to say about this. I don't wan't to talk about it further anyway. Bye-Bye ^_____^ <)
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Old 2004-10-05, 15:13   Link #54
OutPhase
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Umbrae, I need to tell you something:

Spoiler for Are you ready for this?:


Now they are claiming that Osama Bin Laden location as been found (How ironic -_-;)

Spoiler for Kinda off topic:
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Old 2004-10-05, 15:51   Link #55
Archuka
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So Bush still stands a chance, huh? Even after Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11 and his own speeches made him look like a total idiot?

I'm not American and I don't know much about Kerry's political views, but hell, they can't be worse than Bush's. Bush is supported by the rich elite in the US and Bush pretty much does what the elite wants to (note that he himself belongs to the elite). He wants poverty in his country and he wants to invade Middle Eastern countries because he and the rest of the rich elite make shit loads of money out of it. In the end, money is what makes presidents, not the people.

The majority of the US army consists of poor people who joined the army to get a job. What would happen if the standard of living and social security would suddenly increase among the less wealthy families in the US? Bush would soon have no army left to invade oil countries with!
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Old 2004-10-05, 17:13   Link #56
Grona
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archuka
So Bush still stands a chance, huh? Even after Bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9/11 and his own speeches made him look like a total idiot?
Its the lesser of two evils, as a american solder in Iraq put it. Its a shame but bush does stand a chance, mostly because he has scared every weak minded person into beleaving that there are people around every corner trying to destroy them and he is their saviour.


Quote:
The majority of the US army consists of poor people who joined the army to get a job. What would happen if the standard of living and social security would suddenly increase among the less wealthy families in the US? Bush would soon have no army left to invade oil countries with!
I bet he would reinstate the draft so quick it would make our heads spin.
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Old 2004-10-06, 22:39   Link #57
Keitaro
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grona
I bet he would reinstate the draft so quick it would make our heads spin.
Bush said he won't reinstate the draft. There was a rumor on the net stating that Bush would reinstate the draft if he gets re-elected into office again. Apparently that was a lie to get people not to vote for Bush by some antibush people. As for the debate I think Kerry did a better job then Bush. It seemed like Bush was extremely frustrated and just couldn't get out what he really wanted to say.
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Old 2004-10-06, 23:15   Link #58
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Kerry said he would not pull out of Iraq, but yet he admits it is the wrong war, at the wrong time, in the wrong place. That does not send a good message to your fighting force. But it does send an honest one, that any thinking soldier already knows.
But he won three purple hearts!
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Old 2004-10-07, 08:52   Link #59
Yoska
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Sorry, I don't follow foreign politics so could somebody please enlight me about few things. From which parties are Kerry and Bush from and are they the only president candidates there is? From what I have seen from media I have come to the understanding that there is only two political parties in US. But that would be little akward, having only two options in a country which is blamed to be the cradle of democracy. Is there stuff like Green party in US? Another thing that bothers me is, I don't know is this true or not, but in US you don't directly vote candidates but something else that indicates your opinion? If not then somebody have screwed me big time.
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Old 2004-10-07, 11:35   Link #60
Bun-kun
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoska
Sorry, I don't follow foreign politics so could somebody please enlight me about few things. From which parties are Kerry and Bush from and are they the only president candidates there is? From what I have seen from media I have come to the understanding that there is only two political parties in US. But that would be little akward, having only two options in a country which is blamed to be the cradle of democracy. Is there stuff like Green party in US? Another thing that bothers me is, I don't know is this true or not, but in US you don't directly vote candidates but something else that indicates your opinion? If not then somebody have screwed me big time.
k I'm going to try and explain this best I can, if I'm wrong anywhere someone feel free to correct me. Yes there are 2 partie that are very popular, Democrats (liberal), Republican (conservatives). Now there are more parties in the U.S like the libertarian party, and yes there is a Green Party. Raph Nader ran under the Green Party tickey last time, but I'm not sure if he is this time. The reason why you only seem to see the 2 main pt is because they have mucho dinaero and lots of influence everywhere. Funny George Washington, one of our founding father was totally against a 2 party system.

Now as for the election, yes majority does not rule. The US election works on something call the electoral college. The number the is designated to each state represent how many representative the state has in Congress. The state with a large population has more representative in Congress therefore more Electoral votes, therefore the candidates mainly campaign there, you'll never see candidate in say Alaska, or Montana, or Wyoming. hope that explain some things to ya ^^
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