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Old 2010-10-05, 16:19   Link #3041
Othello~
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I sort of wonder this too . . . (spoilers for book nine)

Spoiler for spoilers:


Pretty confusing . . .
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Old 2010-10-05, 17:01   Link #3042
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Originally Posted by Othello~ View Post
I sort of wonder this too . . . (spoilers for book nine)

Spoiler for spoilers:


Pretty confusing . . .
I'm almost positive that some of these things, if not all, will be addressed in book 10, or maybe even 11. We really don't know that much about her yet, and the problem is compounded by the split narrative, I'm sure.
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Old 2010-10-05, 17:20   Link #3043
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Originally Posted by keri View Post
I'm almost positive that some of these things, if not all, will be addressed in book 10, or maybe even 11. We really don't know that much about her yet, and the problem is compounded by the split narrative, I'm sure.
Yeah, that's another reason why I hate waiting for the next book to come out .
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Old 2010-10-06, 01:39   Link #3044
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I'm just trying to wrap my arms around Haruhi's world, but one of the things I found interesting with Yuki Nagato/The Data Entities is the remark she made about her/their reluctance to alter the weather during the baseball game episode. One must wonder just why do they really care how her slight weather modifications (which really would've helped things out in that episode) would affect someplace in a few hundred years? Even if it's mere "altruism", why bother mind the welfare of us relative amoebas? Does this imply that they believe Haurhi's "God reign" is pretty much a permanent status quo so they try not to mess with her creations (which says much about how much they'll ever glean of her reality generating power to create their own universe) or that there's even a greater "reality" beyond her that must be respected and cared for?
Notice that Yuki never indicated just how severe the long-term weather effects would be--for all we know, in just a few months the effects could decay to a level that mere humans could not even detect, much less care about. I think that she was using it as an excuse to talk Kyon out of trying to get the game canceled because she, like Koizumi, believed that Haruhi would react adversely to being unable to complete the game.
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Old 2010-10-06, 12:25   Link #3045
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I think that she was using it as an excuse to talk Kyon out of trying to get the game canceled because she, like Koizumi, believed that Haruhi would react adversely to being unable to complete the game.
Has Yuki ever used that kind of subtlety before? It just doesn't seem like her.
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Old 2010-10-06, 15:57   Link #3046
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Has Yuki ever used that kind of subtlety before? It just doesn't seem like her.
She probably wants to get data or something from the baseball game. With that as an explaination, it seems very much like her (to collect data from Haruhi Suzumiya has been the only thing she's really "cared" about).
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Old 2010-10-06, 20:01   Link #3047
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I'm sure she does want data, but the question remains. Isn't Yuki one to say what she wants or to not say anything at all?
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Old 2010-10-07, 03:11   Link #3048
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Recall that Yuki's mission is to interfere with Haruhi's actions as little as possible while collecting data. As such, she would be reluctant to force the cancellation of Haruhi's baseball game unless Kyon insisted upon it. Note that she advised against changing the weather, but still implied that she would be willing to do it if he insisted.
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Old 2010-10-09, 23:57   Link #3049
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Originally Posted by Othello~ View Post
I sort of wonder this too . . . (spoilers for book nine)

Spoiler for spoilers:


Pretty confusing . . .
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2010-10-10, 02:34   Link #3050
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My personal theory is that Haruhi desired an arch-rival, and so her power took Kyon's previous girlfriend (i.e. the strongest existing rival for his heart outside of the SOS-dan), and built her into an anti-Haruhi, complete with her own esper, time-traveler, and alien factions. Haruhi's subconscious probably looks forward to defeating her "evil twin" in a battle of supposed equals.
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Old 2010-10-10, 09:06   Link #3051
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Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
My personal theory is that Haruhi desired an arch-rival, and so her power took Kyon's previous girlfriend (i.e. the strongest existing rival for his heart outside of the SOS-dan), and built her into an anti-Haruhi, complete with her own esper, time-traveler, and alien factions. Haruhi's subconscious probably looks forward to defeating her "evil twin" in a battle of supposed equals.
There's that possibility as well. I think I remember when that one was first brought up on these forums...
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Old 2010-10-10, 09:26   Link #3052
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Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
My personal theory is that Haruhi desired an arch-rival, and so her power took Kyon's previous girlfriend (i.e. the strongest existing rival for his heart outside of the SOS-dan), and built her into an anti-Haruhi, complete with her own esper, time-traveler, and alien factions. Haruhi's subconscious probably looks forward to defeating her "evil twin" in a battle of supposed equals.
Spoiler for stuff:
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Old 2010-10-10, 16:52   Link #3053
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Spoiler for stuff:
Spoiler for Reply:
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Old 2010-10-10, 20:09   Link #3054
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Why do fans classify haruhi as a god when there more to it than that?
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Old 2010-10-10, 20:20   Link #3055
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Why do fans classify haruhi as a god when there more to it than that?
Basically because Haruhi can do whatever she likes, she can repeat time (Endless Eight) make things happen (Murder Case) very good at everything she does (Baseball, Athletics) has people who follow her (Time Travelers, Espers, Aliens) many more for fans to think of her as a god
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Old 2010-10-10, 20:24   Link #3056
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Because it is fun?
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Old 2010-10-10, 20:28   Link #3057
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Because it is fun?
There is also that
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Old 2010-10-10, 23:11   Link #3058
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Why do fans classify haruhi as a god when there more to it than that?
It might...just might...have something to do with people in the actual series calling her a god. That and the whole "doing things that only a god could do" stuff previously mentioned...
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Old 2010-10-11, 00:48   Link #3059
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Originally Posted by Othello~ View Post
Spoiler for stuff:
I think that she wants the glory/ego boost that comes from beating somebody who might actually stand a chance against her--a battle of "equals". She may want to feel like the underdog sometimes, just so that she can come up from behind and win (e.g. winning in the last inning in the baseball game).
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Old 2010-10-11, 01:00   Link #3060
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Why do fans classify haruhi as a god when there more to it than that?
It's because "god" is the simplest way to refer to what Haruhi is capable of. Mikuru's description of her is little more than "she keeps us from going more than three years in the past," which doesn't foster especially useful descriptors for Haruhi. Yuki calls Haruhi the potential for evolution because of her ability to create data (and arguably the power of true creation is solely within the domain of the divine). Itsuki thinks that the world is but a dream of Haruhi's and consequently confirms my point above that the creation and destruction associated with that explanation are abilities found only in a god.

The most relevant way of describing Haruhi is as someone one step above Yuki (a person who Kyon routinely refers to as "Great Goddess Nagato"). At any rate, while you say there's so much more to Haruhi than "god," the truth is that it all boils down to his: Haruhi can alter the world at will. How else would you describe such a being?

--

I found something rather interesting while looking up the actual descriptions of Haruhi in the first novel. Mikuru gives the following account of the structure of time:

"Even if I attempted to change history in this age it would not affect the future, because there is no continuity between time frames. Everything would stay in this temporal plane."

Isn't this at odds with the many, many instances of people going back in time and doing something that totally affects the future? We don't really need to look any farther than Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, where we find out that the only reason Haruhi starts the SOS Brigade is because Kyon traveled back in time (using Mikuru's methods!) and influenced her to go to North High. Additionally, the whole movie is predicated on time travel affecting the future, and I remember several cases in other novels where people go back in time to either cause something to happen or prevent something from happening.

So what's the deal here? Am I misunderstanding the description Mikuru gives? Is she wrong/mistaken/misleading? Is there just a huge break in continuity? What gives?
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