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Old 2010-10-16, 08:53   Link #101
nubby
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Sigh. Naruto is getting shittier by the minute. First off, how does Deidara come back? His whole body exploded so there was nothing left. Did Kabuto take tissue/dna samples from him or something from when he was alive?? OK even if he did do that, how the hell does he have his full memory and free will, limited by what Kabuto imposes on him? That's just stupid. This manga has no boundaries. Kishi just pulls shit from his ass.
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Old 2010-10-16, 09:07   Link #102
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^^ Well it was stated/seen in the first part that edo tensei can bring the dead back, the only difference from back then is that this ones have more freedom. Also Kabuto didn't bring their bodies back just thier souls that take their previous form.
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Old 2010-10-16, 09:16   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
You mean, 'sides the Sasuke deal, just like Luffy?
Hey, you leave my Luffy alone...

Seriously though, people seem to forget that Naruto is written for an audience somewhere around the age of 13 (One Piece and Bleach are as well), so even if we find the jokes bad (which the armadillo joke was bad, but I did chuckle at the idea that Naruto was so adamant at knowing the sex of all the giant beasts) and the maturity level slightly low, this is undoubtedly because the story is not written for a higher maturity level to begin with.
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Old 2010-10-16, 09:19   Link #104
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Originally Posted by nubby View Post
Sigh. Naruto is getting shittier by the minute. First off, how does Deidara come back? His whole body exploded so there was nothing left. Did Kabuto take tissue/dna samples from him or something from when he was alive?? OK even if he did do that, how the hell does he have his full memory and free will, limited by what Kabuto imposes on him? That's just stupid. This manga has no boundaries. Kishi just pulls shit from his ass.
Orochimaru. Edo Tensei.

Edo Tensei revived First Hokage+Second Hokage. They had their memories, talked to the Third and wondered about Orochimaru before he inserted a seal in the back of their heads, which killed their personality.

Kabuto has a different version of Edo Tensei.

To use Edo Tensei, you attach the soul of the deceased to a pre-existing body. Orochimaru used the two sound ninjas in the chuunin exams. (The guy with the air blasting jutsu, the girl that fought with needles+strings vs Shikamaru)

I'm not sure who's pulling shit out of their ass, right now.

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Seriously though, people seem to forget that Naruto is written for an audience somewhere around the age of 13 (One Piece and Bleach are as well), so even if we find the jokes bad (which the armadillo joke was bad, but I did chuckle at the idea that Naruto was so adamant at knowing the sex of all the giant beasts) and the maturity level slightly low, this is undoubtedly because the story is not written for a higher maturity level to begin with.
Hurhur.. penis.

Sorry, what were you saying?
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Old 2010-10-16, 09:58   Link #105
Fran~
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Yeah, because Naruto spamming Rasengans is so much better.
Rasengan is a basic technique, i think that naruto used more Sexy no Jutsus than Rasengans


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Oh yeah, and whatever did happen to Itachi's deep-throating crow?
Is expecting to be use... that's the difference between Kishi and Kubo... Kishi can use those loose ends to create something, at least, worth to read.

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Yeah, only now he's twice as goofy and irritating, has zero interest in the opposite sex, has an unhealthy obsession with Sasuke and, what's more, hyperventilates after considering the possibility that he might be *dun dun dun* evil!
It's shounen!... take Ichigo's worry about Aizen being alone!, far more lame IMHO.

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Oh, and he has a fascination with armadillo penises.
It's a comic relief... same comic relief that Bleach lost in some way, Nel & desert siblings were so funny. Bleach started to be "serious" and lost one of its charms.

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Naruto hasn't shown an ounce of competency or maturity since part 1.
Yeah, holding her anger against Pain, trying to understand him, isn't that an once of maturity?. Last conversation between Naruto and Sasuke it wasn't mature?.


IMHO, Naruto ins't the gemstone of manga's history... but is quite understimated, we forget that this manga is a KIDS manga, not an adult history, you can't ask complex personalities. What focuses the attention are the fights and explanation of why certain things happen.
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Last edited by Fran~; 2010-10-16 at 11:28.
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Old 2010-10-16, 12:11   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Uh, you do realize he was being sarcastic and that that's a point against the story, don't you?
Do you realize that I know that and have made that point before? I know what he was saying. Where did you get that I thought that was a positive for the story?
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Old 2010-10-16, 12:46   Link #107
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Kabuto should dig up Hidan and put him back together for a complete set of Akatsuki
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Old 2010-10-16, 13:39   Link #108
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Old 2010-10-17, 00:16   Link #109
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
@Nobodyman, come on man. Naruto isn't OP, but give credit where credit is due. The story is still miles away from what Bleach has become.
Saying Naruto is better than Bleach is like saying Alone in the Dark is better than Manos: Hands of Fate.

But you are correct. Bleach is worse.

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Hm. His last fight was with the Kyuubi, so I don't know what you expected, really.
How about a fight that lasted more than 2 chapters and didn't have chains coming out of Naruto's crotch.

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It was obviously a question of who had the most power
No duh. It's the same for every battle.

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and the Oodama Rasengan army was kiiiiinda awesome.
What's better than a green energy ball? A HUGE green energy ball!

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Otherwise, Naruto has shown he could use the Shadow Shuriken with his Fuuton Rasengan,
Yippee! He can do an elementary ninja tactic that Sasuke could do in Part 1!

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has shown creativity with Henge and Kage Bunshin,
No he hasn't.

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with frog summons that can deal with the whole genjutsu aspect, added to some serious water jutsu.
Beg pardon?

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To be honest with you? That's enough for me, he's already got the variety he needs, and if we go by the hints given to us, he's going to be the next 'Flash' of Konoha.
He's supposed to be the next Hokage and he knows a grand total of three jutsus. All his other attacks are just variations of them.

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Might be purely symbolic, as his Kyuubi form affords him the looks and the speed, or it might be that he'll actually learn the Flying Thunder God technique. Which might or might not be 'that jutsu'.
Yeah, how many chapters has it been since "that jutsu" was even brought up?

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Huh, you know, as you put it, a power boost is what it is... I can't say OP has done much better in terms of power boost with Luffy's gears. And meaningful? The Kyuubi form has proven to be powerful, but impossible to control so far, which has given plenty of meaning to Naruto. I mean, this arc was almost entirely dedicated to his coming to term with hatred and taking control over a form that would normally make him go berserk.
It kinda undermines the importance of it when he beats the Kyuubi in 2 chapters while having idle chatter with his mom. And I'm still baffled as to how "Dark Naruto" was supposed to fit into any of it.

Oh, and the introduction of Luffy's gears wasn't handled very well.

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That doesn't amount to anything to you?
Not really.

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You mean, 'sides the Sasuke deal, just like Luffy?
Luffy is charming in his goofiness. Also, Luffy at least gave an immediate response to Hancock after he knew that she wanted to marry him.

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I think that looking back on the chapters that made part I, there is still a sense that Sasuke was the essential cornerstone of Naruto's willingness to push his limits. Perhaps the years of fillers dealing with Sasuke, essentially repeats of episodes peddling the same 'Rescue Sasuke' idea, has given Shippuuden a bad start, ie watchers that go: "Again with Sasuke?"
Sasuke has moved far beyond the "cornerstone of Naruto's will to push himself" and has pretty much become the center of Naruto's existence.

Naruto filler is ass. I take zero consideration of it when judging this manga. Not that I've watched Shuppiden filler anyway.

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I think Naruto's obsession with Sasuke isn't 'unhealthy'. Naruto's entire childhood was unhealthy, and his relationship with Sasuke was the first healthy thing that ever happened to him. We may not necessarily agree with the way it's pictured, but we should both be able to understand Naruto's willingness and desire to save an old friend from a path of vengeance that our main character understands all too well, seeing as he felt the same kind of resentment towards the villagers.
So being so fixated on a supposed "friend" of yours, to the point that you refuse to accept his abandonment of your village, despite the fact he has shown no remorse or desire to ever come back, and that you have an epileptic seizure when faced with the possibility that he might be evil, is healthy?

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If you're going to troll, at least put some effort in it.
Oh trust me, I don't have to put much effort into it to successfully troll this series.

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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
Rasengan is a basic technique, i think that naruto used more Sexy no Jutsus than Rasengans
No it's not, and he hasn't. In any case, it's still no excuse to just spam the same attack.

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Is expecting to be use... that's the difference between Kishi and Kubo... Kishi can use those loose ends to create something, at least, worth to read.
Yeah, we'll see.

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It's shounen!... take Ichigo's worry about Aizen being alone!, far more lame IMHO.
I wasn't aware that Shonen had turned gay. But I will agree about the Ichigo thing.

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It's a comic relief... same comic relief that Bleach lost in some way, Nel & desert siblings were so funny. Bleach started to be "serious" and lost one of its charms.
Blatant penis jokes are the lowest common denominator of humor (unless handled properly). Armadillo penis jokes.........didn't exist until this chapter.

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Yeah, holding her anger against Pain, trying to understand him, isn't that an once of maturity?. Last conversation between Naruto and Sasuke it wasn't mature?.
Naruto trying to "understand" Pain didn't amount to jack. He just came up with some half-assed and immaterial answer to Pain's question and then forced his "believe it" shit on him.

Oh, and declaring to his lover rival that they're both going to die during their final battle because he refuses to see him as an enemy because he's so hung up on him is supposed to be mature?

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IMHO, Naruto ins't the gemstone of manga's history... but is quite understimated, we forget that this manga is a KIDS manga, not an adult history, you can't ask complex personalities. What focuses the attention are the fights and explanation of why certain things happen.
If anything, Naruto is overrated. And the problem isn't that it's a kids manga. The problem is that Kishi has ruined what Naruto once was with bland art, complete and utter neglect of the side characters, gay undertones that Kishi refuses to acknowledge, battles that are nonsensical, and the actual regression of certain characters.

But I will grant that Naruto does have the occassional decent or even enjoyable chapter.
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Old 2010-10-17, 02:50   Link #110
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
Naruto trying to "understand" Pain didn't amount to jack. He just came up with some half-assed and immaterial answer to Pain's question and then forced his "believe it" shit on him.
It is You that understands nothing. Pain was converted because he saw himself/Yahiko in Naruto, and thought about giving himself another chance at his ideals...
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Old 2010-10-17, 03:24   Link #111
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It is You that understands nothing. Pain was converted because he saw himself/Yahiko in Naruto, and thought about giving himself another chance at his ideals...
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"Okay, I believe it. Allow me to retcon the deaths of everyone in the village making this arc entirely pointless."
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Old 2010-10-17, 05:49   Link #112
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I thought people should have been aware that the only reason all the old akatsuki have been revived is because Kishi can't be bothered to think of new villains for the story anymore.

I don't necessarily think this revival is that much of a bad thing though, It has a lot of potential.

But why not revive Hidan? The best akatsuki member?

Also the penis joke was downright cringe-worthy, Just terrible execution. Those are funny in hajime no ippo though.
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Old 2010-10-17, 07:53   Link #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"Okay, I believe it. Allow me to retcon the deaths of everyone in the village making this arc entirely pointless."
I suggest you drop this series at this point. None of the counter-arguments you made were convincing, so I can only assume you're reading the series because... Actually, I don't know why you'd read the series at all anymore, seeing as how you've come to hate it.

Shikamaru is a classic example of skill surpassing power, by the way.
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Old 2010-10-17, 08:10   Link #114
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I think the problem with comic relief in Naruto is the simple fact that series has become serious and melodramtic; Comic relief moments just seem jarring at this point. The same thing has happened with bleach, however unlike Naruto the comic relief moments in bleach are more capable of being honestly funny enough for it to get a pass; jokes in Naruto are just too lame... in contrast, One piece has managed to maintain a consistent blend of being serious and comedic, often even mixing comedy into the fights, and as such the comedy in well excepted as it ALWAYS been a part of the series
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Old 2010-10-17, 09:42   Link #115
Fran~
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"I don't believe it!"
"Believe it!"
"Okay, I believe it. Allow me to retcon the deaths of everyone in the village making this arc entirely pointless."
Yeah...Shonen 101...

BUT, there is a big BUT (no pun intended ), that conversation did have a pillar in which Kishi pretty much based the "conversion".... it was so simple as Pain remember his naive solution to Jiraiya's problem.

So, at least me, i'm ok how Kishi ties that loose end:
-There is Jiraiya's prophecy about travel and write a book (the tool who made possible Pain's Epiphany).

And that was a fact since the very moment we meet Jiraiya, he was a writter and he was a wanderer. It was a solid plot. It wasn't the best plot for a character in the history of the manga, but it was solid, more solid than any plot in Bleach.

Don't forget that this is a "shounen for kids". It doesn't mean to be a train wreck like Bleach, but in Naruto's case, i think that is not that bad.


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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
I think the problem with comic relief in Naruto is the simple fact that series has become serious and melodramtic; Comic relief moments just seem jarring at this point.
Nah, i think that a lot of readers just grew up and ask something that Naruto will never be, because he is still a teenager. So, in some point we thought that naruto should be more serious and bad ass, when Kishi is tired of showing us that Naruto is still a knucklehead who is (slowly) losing his naivity. Such as understand that he didn't understand Sasuke at VotE, because he learned that when Jiraiya died.

A comic relief as the joke about armadillo's penis now seems weird, but if you read naruto's first chapter, you can read several of this kind of jokes, but... we were younger and we must face that we changed what we like a what not.

Kishi must deals with a 10 year old manga and certain target... but he is not as good at that as Oda.
Kubo on the other hand, had a serious trouble with bleach.
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Old 2010-10-17, 12:13   Link #116
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So is the next chapt coming out this week or next? I lost count.
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Old 2010-10-17, 12:51   Link #117
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I don't understand all the complaints about Naruto being stupid, it is quite clear that Kishimoto will not change the recipe of success in shonen manga. Naruto has to stay Naruto until the end, his basic personality and character will not change. Just like Jiraiya didn't change that much, even when he was fighting Pain and he soon had to die still Kishimoto made his final funny moments when he tries to look cool but the 2 elder toads kick him in the face
We are buying this manga because we expect Naruto to be like that, and Sakura to belike that, etc. For 10 years it worked very well, so it won't be changed suddenly.

BTW it seems that Naruto is evolving quite simlarily to DB/DBZ:
- the kage level now is becoming basic level, like SSJ level became basic in DBZ
- more and more people are being somehow resurrected from the dead, even if Kishimoto will not make this thing free as it was in DB
- more and more fighters can fly now, even Sasuke got his bird summon, so i wonder if Naruto will soon be able to fly
- seems like the old characters of part one are being completely left behind in power level, here it's the former genins like in DB were Krillin, Chaozu, etc.
- Madara is becoming quite simlar to Cell, the way he is being engineered from the cells of Shodaime, using Nagato for the eyes, the countless Uchiha sharingan eyes being used, just like Cell was constructed from the collected cells of the strongest fighters
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Old 2010-10-17, 13:15   Link #118
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So is the next chapt coming out this week or next? I lost count.
I think you meant this comment for the Bleach sub-forum, but I'll answer anyway: Yes there will be a Naruto spoiler this week, and no, there will not be a Bleach spoiler this week.
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Old 2010-10-17, 13:26   Link #119
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I think you meant this comment for the Bleach sub-forum, but I'll answer anyway: Yes there will be a Naruto spoiler this week, and no, there will not be a Bleach spoiler this week.
Yes I did, thanks.. and sorry.. I had both Bleach and Naruto thread tabs up on windows got a bit mixed up.
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Old 2010-10-17, 14:48   Link #120
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I suggest you drop this series at this point. None of the counter-arguments you made were convincing, so I can only assume you're reading the series because... Actually, I don't know why you'd read the series at all anymore, seeing as how you've come to hate it.
Let me clarify, I don't hate Naruto, I hate what Kishi's done to it. I still read Naruto because it used to be a good and solid series and because as long as I'm on the train already I may as well see where it ends. And hey, it's just fun to rag on how utterly stupid it's become.

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