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Old 2009-08-20, 18:42   Link #2201
4Tran
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I'd still like to write it up one of these days, but I've already committed myself to my rewatch of Twelve Kingdoms and Azumanga Daioh, and writing them up on an episode-by-episode basis. The latest word count for episode 2 of each show has come up to about 2400 and 1100 words respectively ! I was originally going to add SDF Macross to those shows, but I would have to gouge my eyes out in that case .
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:23   Link #2202
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Exactly. There should be plenty to discuss about a character without constantly bringing up another character. Heck, I could go on and on just writing about all the different ways Sheryl is my favorite anime character of the last few years.
This. I personally think that this is the right way to be a fan - you support your own instead of bashing those you don't like.

Also, I think by now, everyone should consider calling any character "Mary Sue" as plain name-calling and should be looked down upon in the same way people label any girl as a "slu+/w#ore" just because they hate her.
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Old 2009-08-20, 19:45   Link #2203
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Agreed, and I motion that this be instated in the charts, Mr. Chairman.

Sorry...

Jury Duty today...
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Old 2009-08-21, 11:45   Link #2204
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I don't want to get into what Sheryl qualifies as, but I would like to touch upon this a bit. While I'm familiar with the origin of the term "Mary Sue", I'm not sure why people attach so much importance to it. By itself, a character with either no appreciable flaws or an overabundance of abilities can still be interesting and well-conceived (and perhaps even realistic). While characters with flaws have the potential to be more flavorful, this isn't automatically true. I can see how it's easier to just add up the Mary Sueness of a character, it seems awfully lazy to use it as the prime (or even sole) factor in labeling that character poorly written.
After having read through the fanfic that coined the phrase, I'm more inclined to think that the term "Mary Sue" is more a criticism about the authenticity of a character. It's not that the character's traits are "implausible", but rather that the author noticeably tries to sell the appeal of the character to the audience. In fanfiction in particular, one of the ways in which this happens is when the canon cast (who have their established fanbases to begin with) start promoting an author-created character.

While "flawed" characters can be very interesting, these flaws strike me more as qualities that we "ought not to enjoy, but secretly do." In that sense, I'd question the extent to which many of these "flawed characters" are actually flawed. If you genuinely disliked a character's traits, I'd expect that you'd be less likely to enjoy watching them.
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Old 2009-08-21, 18:46   Link #2205
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After having read through the fanfic that coined the phrase, I'm more inclined to think that the term "Mary Sue" is more a criticism about the authenticity of a character. It's not that the character's traits are "implausible", but rather that the author noticeably tries to sell the appeal of the character to the audience. In fanfiction in particular, one of the ways in which this happens is when the canon cast (who have their established fanbases to begin with) start promoting an author-created character.
While that's partly where the origin of the criticism comes from (the other part being, as you bring up, that the self-insert is nowhere nearly as liked by the readers as she/he is by the pre-existing characters), it no longer seems to be the case. If it were, then Mary Sue-ism would be only part of a multi-faceted argument accounting for all the points of inauthenticity of the character. That would be a bit better (although not by all that much) than the current arguments which usually try to suggest that Mary Sue-ism is the ultimate crime in characterization; and that all that is needed to prove that a character is poorly written is to go off a checklist to see whether said character qualifies for the label.

In terms of comparison, this is very akin to the arguments where a character is claimed to be bad (or good) because they fulfill the attributes of a particular archetype; whether this archetype is tsundere, loli, harem, or what have you. It's a tact that betrays an ignorance of what such classifications are and are not supposed to accomplish, and it's not something I'm fond of.

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While "flawed" characters can be very interesting, these flaws strike me more as qualities that we "ought not to enjoy, but secretly do." In that sense, I'd question the extent to which many of these "flawed characters" are actually flawed. If you genuinely disliked a character's traits, I'd expect that you'd be less likely to enjoy watching them.
I don't speak for anyone else, but the reason I like flaws (It's more character flaws than flawed characters per se.) is because they are the essence of drama for me. Character flaws is because it exposes the rawness of the human condition and gives rise to the story elements that interst me the most - largely in the arena of meaningful decision-making, but also things like racheting up the dramatic tension, increasing the stakes in the central conflicts, and so on.

As for how genuinely flawed those traits are, I'd include just about everything imaginable: from racism to sexism to megalomania to murderous rage to willful ignorance to criminal activities of all kind. I find all of these traits abhorent in real life, but I'm a lot more open to them in fiction. What I find more important than the content of the flaws is the way the show treats them, and the kind of storytelling "moments of beauty" they make possible.
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Old 2010-10-17, 13:18   Link #2206
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Hey Hey! Suprise article I just found out...our Sheryl Nome got 9th place in the "Perfect Proportionate" Anime girls. So says this article which might be NSFW=> http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/1...d-anime-girls/
With a pic like this...no surprise=>

All the best to Sheryl Nome in regards to that.
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Old 2010-10-17, 15:33   Link #2207
moncikoma
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All the best to Sheryl Nome in regards to that.
Comment by Anonymous
01:02 18/10/2010 # ! Neutral (+0.2)

Dudes, who the hell is #9??
Its not exuberant body but it has a strange captivating beauty u known like if left me charmed after saw her.

#9 gets my vote and misato too just for my childhood memories


ONE DOWN!
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Old 2010-10-17, 15:52   Link #2208
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^Discussion like that doesn't really belongs in this thread. Let's keep it to the episode talk please.
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Old 2010-10-17, 16:08   Link #2209
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^Discussion like that doesn't really belong in this thread. Let's keep it to the episode talk please.
Ok sorry but Sheryl deserves for her first time appearance in this episode first episode. Just though of doing some honors to her....sorry again. At least she looks nice in that pic.
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Old 2010-10-17, 16:46   Link #2210
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Ok sorry but Sheryl deserves for her first time appearance in this episode first episode. Just though of doing some honors to her....sorry again. At least she looks nice in that pic.
That's what the image thread is for.
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Old 2010-10-17, 22:42   Link #2211
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Thank you, Francismeunier!

Oh and lol at Snakaku and their DFC fetish.
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Old 2010-10-18, 08:10   Link #2212
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That is a nice picture of Sheryl... *jumps* ...
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Old 2010-10-18, 08:47   Link #2213
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I few months old one at that.
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Old 2010-10-18, 18:13   Link #2214
moncikoma
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What do u guys like about sheryl?
Which is veryl uniqe!

1. Her pink hair?
2. Her thick ayebrows
3. Her voice? And songs
4. Her charisma?
5 her eyes
6 her style
7 her smile
8.Her nature "tsundere"
9.her body
10.Her character

As for me... I like her thick eye brows... which is uniqe!

Last edited by moncikoma; 2010-10-19 at 03:15.
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Old 2010-10-18, 18:16   Link #2215
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She is a great tsundere, has a phenomenal body (not that it counts since it's anime), and can simply be a lot of fun all around. Oh, and I love her hair color. It's...a realistic shade of pink.

And damn your avatar...I get lost in it.
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Old 2010-10-18, 19:56   Link #2216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moncikoma View Post
What do u guys like about sheryl?
Which is veryl uniqe!

1. Her pink hair?
2. Her bold ayebrows
3. Her voice? And songs
4. Her charisma?
5 her eyes
6 her style
7 her smile
8.Her nature "tsundere"
9.her attitude
10.Her boobs!

As for me... I like he bold eye brows... Because that is her uniqe and cute looks!
I go for #11. All of the above. She's the perfect package.
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Old 2010-10-19, 03:19   Link #2217
moncikoma
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
She is a great tsundere, has a phenomenal body (not that it counts since it's anime), and can simply be a lot of fun all around. Oh, and I love her hair color. It's...a realistic shade of pink.

And damn your avatar...I get lost in it.

sorry about the avatar..
yes her hair is PINK...with a bit blonde shade...
love that tooo...too bad it is only possible in Anime..
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Old 2010-10-19, 03:36   Link #2218
pinoy78
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Does Risa Ebata make any appearances outside of Japan?

I'd LOVE to get a pencil sketch of Sheryl by her. I'd frame the damn thing.
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Old 2010-10-19, 03:52   Link #2219
Shiroth
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I go for #11. All of the above. She's the perfect package.
True statement is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoy78 View Post
Does Risa Ebata make any appearances outside of Japan?

I'd LOVE to get a pencil sketch of Sheryl by her. I'd frame the damn thing.
Not that i know of. There's some fantastic sketches in the Sheryl image book, though i'm sure you already know that.
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Old 2010-10-19, 07:32   Link #2220
DragoZERO
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yes her hair is PINK...with a bit blonde shade...
love that tooo...too bad it is only possible in Anime..
Indeed. I have a pre-disposition to pink hair for some reason...but I have seen good cosplays where there is a little pink thrown in and it looks good. You just can't do full blown pink.

In conclusion: Sheryl is perfect and my concept of the ideal girl is even more unrealistic.
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