AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-09-12, 18:10   Link #3161
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Her "corpse" was found in the cousins' room along with George, Jessica, and Maria. Where she actually died later is unknown.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline  
Old 2010-09-12, 18:25   Link #3162
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
It was in the same bed as Maria's, apparently.

And she was actually killed... in the gold chamber? Somewhere they didn't bother to look?
Leafsnail is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 11:13   Link #3163
KanonTheFurniture
Witch's Golden Breaker
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 26
So I was just rereading EP5, and during the whole 'letter and knock in the hallway' argument, I noticed this.



Erika makes this, and later, a few other 'special device' theories, and none of them get denied by what should be the most obvious method - Knox 4th. Shouldn't this automatically rule out any 'unknown device X'? Why didn't this get brought up at all during this discussion? I could understand if it were just Erika, Bern, and Lambda, since most of the theories get denied for other reasons and it wouldn't really be necessary to bring up, but come on, Dlanor is right freaking there!! How can she say there are 'no problems' with a theory that specifically uses the words 'secret contraption'?!
KanonTheFurniture is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 11:32   Link #3164
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture View Post
Erika makes this, and later, a few other 'special device' theories, and none of them get denied by what should be the most obvious method - Knox 4th. Shouldn't this automatically rule out any 'unknown device X'? Why didn't this get brought up at all during this discussion? I could understand if it were just Erika, Bern, and Lambda, since most of the theories get denied for other reasons and it wouldn't really be necessary to bring up, but come on, Dlanor is right freaking there!! How can she say there are 'no problems' with a theory that specifically uses the words 'secret contraption'?!
Knox 4 only rules out certain very specific kinds of Device X, namely improbable scientific devices and unknown drugs with pseudo-magical effects, which are prone to abuse in mystery fiction. Simple contraptions in general are traditionally allowed. Erika's "contraption to play a cassette at midnight" is just a simple timer device, so there's nothing particularly wrong with it as long as she can locate clues for it later.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 12:01   Link #3165
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
In this case "unknown" refers to things that aren't scientifically known by our society.

For example warp devices and psionic powers are ruled out. Even if some might claim that they are "realistically" possible, there is still no actual scientific support for them. The same goes with unknown poisons or illness with peculiar properties. Even if theoretically they could exist, if there is not scientific data about them they are forbidden.

The "trap x" or "device x" argument, however, is still valid, as long as you do not speculate the existence of some kind of device that goes beyond the regular technology or regular knowledge.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 15:06   Link #3166
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Plus, DIanor is on Erika's side. She could just ignore it for her benefit.
Leafsnail is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 18:51   Link #3167
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
I believe Dlanor's specific objection is things which are "unknown" (not invented yet/in 1986) or "hard to understand" (something reliant on an extensive amount of technical knowledge or extreme preparedness that don't make sense in the setting, or which would be incomprehensible to a reader).

A device to knock on a door is just a simple fulcrum, a recording is basically a tape. Things like Battler's suggestion of a wire or paper or something to pull a key under a door or a stake/bullet shooting trap in earlier episodes would also probably be a simple device, Beatrice just denies their use in those puzzles/deaths.

But yeah, Dlanor can just ignore any rule not convenient to her own side. She's not required to play fair if she's not on an impartial side. She doesn't seem to like playing dirty, but she'll do it.
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
Renall is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 22:57   Link #3168
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
It was in the same bed as Maria's, apparently.

And she was actually killed... in the gold chamber? Somewhere they didn't bother to look?
By the way, I would assume that all the bodies were moved (by themselves before they were killed, most likely) to the shack or the church and never found again.

Once Ryukishi showed us the hiding spots in EP1-2, I assume they will be reused in later episodes. (And other spots possibly designated for other purposes, like Kuwadorian, the passage way there, the cells, if they do exist.) Technically speaking if you want people to meet and hide at a spot, good places are places like "the church" or "the shed" and not some random spot in the middle of the forest that people have to locate in the middle of the night with a raging typhoon. 8)
Kylon99 is offline  
Old 2010-09-24, 23:29   Link #3169
Dlanor .A. Nox
The Death!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
Of course I'll fight DIRTY. When hunting witches for a living one cannot afford to be MERCIFUL.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic100082_1.gif
Dlanor .A. Nox is offline  
Old 2010-10-22, 21:38   Link #3170
zibbazabba905
twuth it EASY.
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
One of the original concepts from the introduction/background page onward was how far people would go to solve the mystery. The ending of episode 6 was where I *covers Dlanor's ears* realized the truth that a witch did it. With magic.
Spoiler for for dramatic effect:
zibbazabba905 is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 13:16   Link #3171
Thunder Book
Endless Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
People always call what they don't understand "magic" or a "miracle," after all.
Thunder Book is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 16:49   Link #3172
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Magic exists, it's just not supernatural. Haven't you guys ever been to a magician show?
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 18:15   Link #3173
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
those are called "tricks".
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 18:39   Link #3174
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Yep. Magic tricks.
Leafsnail is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 21:03   Link #3175
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
At no point has Beatrice ever claimed that her magic defies the laws of physics. She only says "X is possible/done with my magic."
AuraTwilight is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 21:06   Link #3176
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
but she claimed several times that they were impossible by human means.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 21:08   Link #3177
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
By the way, I would assume that all the bodies were moved (by themselves before they were killed, most likely) to the shack or the church and never found again.

Once Ryukishi showed us the hiding spots in EP1-2, I assume they will be reused in later episodes. (And other spots possibly designated for other purposes, like Kuwadorian, the passage way there, the cells, if they do exist.) Technically speaking if you want people to meet and hide at a spot, good places are places like "the church" or "the shed" and not some random spot in the middle of the forest that people have to locate in the middle of the night with a raging typhoon. 8)
Well, along with not finding the cousins they 'did not find' Kinzo's body. There is also a chance that their bodies are stashed in the same place as Kinzo's, whether that is inside the mansion or not.
__________________
Smeckledorf is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 22:01   Link #3178
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
It seems like there ought to be a hint to that effect, but the only place I can think of is Kinzo's study which is somewhat refuted by ep5.
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
Renall is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 22:06   Link #3179
Leafsnail
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Well... it's quite possible Kinzo's body would end up in the boiler room again (after all, that's what happened in ep1).
Leafsnail is offline  
Old 2010-10-23, 22:40   Link #3180
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Fact of the matter is, Kinzo's body is not stored in the boiler room. It is stored in a place where people wouldn't smell it or where the smell can be kept in check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
It seems like there ought to be a hint to that effect, but the only place I can think of is Kinzo's study which is somewhat refuted by ep5.
I don't know what you are referencing as refuting, but Erika's little search and red are pretty weak.
__________________
Smeckledorf is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.