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View Poll Results: To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 33 33.67%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 29.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 17.35%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 7.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 6.12%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 3.06%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-10-30, 20:28   Link #101
Kenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Not being burnt alive or slashed by attacks?

Remember the Walking Church by Index? Hers is Pope Class, and I'm not surprised that these nuns have at most Bishop Class Walking Churches.
If Touma hits them with the Imagine Breaker...

Looks like they can't depend on Index for this next battle. I'm putting my bets on Kanzaki coming in.
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Old 2010-10-30, 20:35   Link #102
Marcus H.
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I bet Lucia's gotta be mad as hell (no pun intended) if even Touma does destroy her Walking Church.
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Old 2010-10-30, 21:08   Link #103
outerelf
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I probably shouldn't be saying anything, but sometimes people amaze me.

In the past couple of episodes everyone was complaining about how there were no fights, and then in an episode with fights, they complain about the fight?
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Old 2010-10-30, 21:23   Link #104
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
By the way, it is irrealistic to create shock wave with flame (I don't say it is ireallistic to have a SW in Index in a sense since we are dealing with esper and magic. But you can't make SW by the use of flames. At the very best, you do that with a detonation, not with flame).
Yes, he does blow them away with explosive spells. So, no, he's not just causing people to fly by spraying them with an oversized flamethrower....


And even then.....this is someone who can make a 5000 degree block of flame achieve the form of a demon and run around independently to toast things...if he can do that then I don't see why he can't do what you thought he did if he wanted.
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Old 2010-10-30, 21:31   Link #105
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Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
I probably shouldn't be saying anything, but sometimes people amaze me.

In the past couple of episodes everyone was complaining about how there were no fights, and then in an episode with fights, they complain about the fight?
haters.. will keep on hating no matter what
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Old 2010-10-30, 21:36   Link #106
orion
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Shinji103 also takes the cake with his remark: Over-analysis of a fictional animated TV series is over-analysis.
Adding to this, people should analyze judging on the source, the adaptation and nothing else.
Totally agree.
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Old 2010-10-30, 22:19   Link #107
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
I probably shouldn't be saying anything, but sometimes people amaze me.

In the past couple of episodes everyone was complaining about how there were no fights, and then in an episode with fights, they complain about the fight?
1. It makes sense.
It's like, people want a new game to come out.
But when the game comes out, but very poorly, they complain. And there is nothing wrong about that.

2. Prove that everyone complaining about the fight also complained about the lack of fighting previously.
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Old 2010-10-30, 22:23   Link #108
Marcus H.
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Problem is, we would be discrediting those who worked hard to make this possible.
Also, consider that they have multiple projects to work on as J.C. Staff.

I hope you know how hard it is to interpret a wordy light novel into an anime series without leaving out some details behind.
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Old 2010-10-30, 23:05   Link #109
Flere821
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
My only real disapproval is that they made the Battle Nuns look too weak, I mean Named Characters aside, the Amakusa didn't seem to have that much trouble facing the 250 Nuns that had just kicked their asses an hour ago.

It could never realistically live up to my expectations that I have in my head, but the anime did make Touma look pretty badass crashing their party like that, hellbent on saving Orsula no matter what. It wouldn't have the same effect if it was anyone else if it was Kanzaki or Mikoto cause you would know they could handle them.

... But still, some visual and audio exaggeration to pump it up would have been nice.
Still, there's a difference in situations here:

The Amakusa earlier was surrounded and attacked without warning, plus they had to look for Orsola as well when fighting. They can't afford to run away since that's their ritual location for their transportation too. Now it's the Agnese Forces who are being attacked, and can't afford to move far away.

Still, I kinda agree with that the nuns were made to look too weak - in the Novel the Amakusa and everyone had to use hit and run tactics to avoid being piled. Not the Itsuwa example here in this episode where she takes on around 10 nuns with her spear and still come out winning
Quote:
Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
Heh, True they go off to beat the nuns, but Touma himself can't kill with just a couple of punches unless he's really sadistic. The Aka group won't kill either, according to their policy learned from Kaori. That leaves Stiyl, and he likes Index too much to do something as dastardly as killing in front of her.
Actually... Stiyl is perfectly willing to burn someone to ashes in front of Index if he deems it necessary. The bit in previous episodes where he said he'll burn the living to death and the dead to ashes(20:05 of Episode 2)? JC Staff didn't put in his next sentences from the novels:

"... no matter whether in front of that girl or behind her [...] Don't misunderstand me, Kamijou Touma; the reason I'm lying here is all for that child. Once you have no more value to that child I can burn into oblivion any time."

For Stiyl, Index's safety comes before his personal feelings to her - remember this is the same guy who agreed to make Index run for a whole year in a country not frequently visited by Western Christian forces just to keep her safe before she met Touma.
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Old 2010-10-30, 23:58   Link #110
zero7090
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
How do you remember something like that?

True, some people can rise above pain, especially magically-imbued persons. But that still doesn't explain their completely unchanged expression. Not even a wince. I'm sure that under the flaming wall that resides upon their bodies, those protesters where crying or cringing.
real life, non-magical, non-christian
Spoiler for may contain graphic image:
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:10   Link #111
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Problem is, we would be discrediting those who worked hard to make this possible.
Also, consider that they have multiple projects to work on as J.C. Staff.

I hope you know how hard it is to interpret a wordy light novel into an anime series without leaving out some details behind.
Yeah.................. Sure.....................
That statement doesn't really work.

If there is something to be criticized, then it will be. Nothing to do with discrediting them.
They (supposedly) worked hard on this, so it's okay no matter how poor the results are? We can't say anything bad about it? Not... computing...
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:11   Link #112
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Well like Kinku said, haters will hate no matter what.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:13   Link #113
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Criticising doesn't equal to hating, though.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:28   Link #114
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
@Klashikari+Others: Over-analysation of a fictional animated TV series is over-analysation.

You guys are honestly trying to apply scientific real-world reasoning to a science fiction television production? So is there some kind of scientific explanation for why Superman is made powerful by the sun? Or for zombies?

C'mon guys, really? Clearly those nuns have undergone serious training if they're all so willing to ruin their ears in a heartbeat like that. And in science fiction television, we all know that the right training can take you light years. You guys are almost like those other guys who try to over-analyze Accelerator vs Mikoto with scientific equations.

If nuns gutting their ears makes so little sense to you that it's bad, then how can you guys stand anything in science fiction television? This is probably one of the more believeable things I've seen.
Almost nothing of what you said relates to the events of episode and is exaggeration. Attacking the posters instead of their argument doesn't really add any credibility to your argument, which you have yet to present. Unless you are implying that nothing in Index has to be credible or consistent, and it can get away with anything on the premise of "It's science fiction" (In which case i would disagree of it being science fiction, Index is a fantasy show), in which case actually discussing the show becomes fruitless. So, lets recap what i found eyebrow-rising about the nun fight (I don't particularly care whether any were killed or not, so i am going to ignore that side of the argument).

Before the actual consequences of ear puncturing and convenience of everyone having two pens, there is the fact they did it in the first place - why ? They seemed perfectly fine standing a few meters away from Index (what is the effective range of her ability ... 2 meters?), so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.

Next, lets assume the codex of nuns requires one to carry two pens at all times, that leaves the actual event of stabbing one's own ears with them. The pain from doing so would be incredible; not ouch-i-stabbed-my-arm-with-a-knife incredible, roll-on-ground-while-screaming-incoherently-while-your-head-is-about-to-explode incredible. Assuming they somehow can shrug that off, there is the sudden damage to vestibular system, as mentioned before. The implications of this go a good deal further than "can't hear" - we literally use hearing to keep us on-balance, or even standing, as well as for coordinating our movements, to actually being able to see straight. This isn't me trying to be over-analytical, it is me trying to put the damage done in perspective (And wondering whether the authors actually knew, i guess )- it isn't "minor" damage or inconvenience, it is a huge one. It is more or less on the same league as someone cutting off his leg with a sword, standing immediately up and hopping forward like nothing happened.

Yes, it looks cool to have a bunch of nuns stab their own ears and fix you on the spot with angry glares while dripping blood, but believable is one thing it is not, unless the nuns are robots. Suspension of disbelief is all well and good, but i can't see a good in-universe reason for the above to develop the way it did. Being a fantasy show does allow one to get away with a lot (and it does, and i am fine with that), but it doesn't hurt to hold back a bit. I don't believe it has ever been established in-universe that To Aru ... humans differ much from us in functionality, hence why the rule of cool seemed to shine through here. One can get away with practically anything, so long as it aligns with the in-universe setup, and i am having doubts whether this episode did.


And on another note, please drop the notion that i (or anyone who expresses less than a completely positive opinion) dislike the show - if i did, i wouldn't be watching it. There is a middle ground between zealous worshiping something and frothing-at-mouth unrestrained hate, which is where i stand, as do many i assume, and it seems people have an easy time in general forgetting this.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:31   Link #115
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Almost nothing of what you said relates to the events of episode and is exaggeration. Attacking the posters instead of their argument doesn't really add any credibility to your argument, which you have yet to present. Unless you are implying that nothing in Index has to be credible or consistent, and it can get away with anything on the premise of "It's science fiction" (In which case i would disagree of it being science fiction, Index is a fantasy show), in which case actually discussing the show becomes fruitless. So, lets recap what i found eyebrow-rising about the nun fight (I don't particularly care whether any were killed or not, so i am going to ignore that side of the argument).

Before the actual consequences of ear puncturing and convenience of everyone having two pens, there is the fact they did it in the first place - why ? They seemed perfectly fine standing a few meters away from Index (what is the effective range of her ability ... 2 meters?), so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.

Next, lets assume the codex of nuns requires one to carry two pens at all times, that leaves the actual event of stabbing one's own ears with them. The pain from doing so would be incredible; not ouch-i-stabbed-my-arm-with-a-knife incredible, roll-on-ground-while-screaming-incoherently-while-your-head-is-about-to-explode incredible. Assuming they somehow can shrug that off, there is the sudden damage to vestibular system, as mentioned before. The implications of this go a good deal further than "can't hear" - we literally use hearing to keep us on-balance, or even standing, as well as for coordinating our movements, to actually being able to see straight. This isn't me trying to be over-analytical, it is me trying to put the damage done in perspective - it isn't "minor" damage or inconvenience, it is a huge one. It is more or less on the same league as someone cutting off his leg with a sword, standing immediately up and hopping forward like nothing happened.

Yes, it looks cool to have a bunch of nuns stab their own ears and fix you on the spot with angry glares while dripping blood, but believable is one thing it is not, unless the nuns are robots. Suspension of disbelief is all well and good, but i can't see a good in-universe reason for the above to develop the way it did. Being a fantasy show does allow one to get away with a lot (and it does, and i am fine with that), but it doesn't hurt to hold back a bit. I don't believe it has ever been established in-universe that To Aru ... humans differ much from us in functionality, hence why the rule of cool seemed to shine through here. One can get away with practically anything, so long as it aligns with the in-universe setup, and i am having doubts whether this episode did.
Reminds me of my conversation in the KamiShiru episode thread. ( -_-)
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:32   Link #116
Marcus H.
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I need to see the line between criticism and downright hate.
I feel some people cross that line already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucia
“Heavy attack! Light defense! Sacrifice yourselves! Destroy the enemy of God!”
This is the activation of a certain command spell which appears to override the human body's limits.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:45   Link #117
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Before the actual consequences of ear puncturing and convenience of everyone having two pens, there is the fact they did it in the first place - why ? They seemed perfectly fine standing a few meters away from Index (what is the effective range of her ability ... 2 meters?), so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.
Unfortunately not everyone have a long range attack, low level magicians have to rely on specific weapons and those particular Nuns are wielding melee weapons so they're going to have to get medieval.

Next, even if you have a long range attack Index could easily switch to spell intercept which I assume Sister Lucia told the whole bunch of them not to even bother with magic against her. Removing their sense of hearing would also counter Index's interception as well.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:46   Link #118
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I need to see the line between criticism and downright hate.
I feel some people cross that line already..
I'm sure there are better explanations, but as an example:
Criticism is what Skyfall is doing.

Hate is something like this:
Quote:
Well like Kinku said, haters will hate no matter what.
(Hate towards people who criticize)
To be honest, I haven't seen any post in this thread so unreasonable that qualifies as "downright hate" except maybe the posts calling people "haters".
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:51   Link #119
zeniselv
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well the point is if you dont like it , why getting in the thread, is like if i went to a k-on thread and say that it was worst than hitting your own mom in the face.

if you dont like, it stop watching and let the ones who like it talk about it.
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Old 2010-10-31, 03:55   Link #120
Nightengale
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There's a world of difference between 'criticizing aspects of a show' and 'hating a show.'

I like Index, and in general, liked what the episode intended to portray overall in general. However, Skyfall's criticism holds true, which I agree for most parts. ( but I'm more willing to not talk about that part so much, because suspension of disbelief and that it's done for the shock factor and portrayal of extreme religious zealots. )
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