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Old 2010-09-24, 00:04   Link #2501
Reckoner
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I find that article interesting because it just shows you that they honestly didn't know where to go with this Asuka since they changed her from NGE so drastically and obviously didn't want her to meet the same fate as the TV series.

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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Highly debatable, as proven by so many different POV's right here in this thread...
Not a single person in this thread has managed to prove or provide any real evidence on the two Asuka's being the same. I either get a) Wait till the next movie (), or b) So what! She's a better character now/I like her still!/ etc.

Anything beyond superficial Tsundere personality traits and a pilot's pride (Watered down to the maximum I must say), are gone. I've outlined it. It is clear that this is not the same Asuka.
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Old 2010-09-24, 01:52   Link #2502
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I find that article interesting because it just shows you that they honestly didn't know where to go with this Asuka since they changed her from NGE so drastically and obviously didn't want her to meet the same fate as the TV series.
So they didn't know where to go with her yet they changed her character to go with her somewhere at the same time?

Besides, going through several drafts or versions of an event is nothing out of the ordinary, especially for Eva. I mean, the first draft of Episode 24 of the TV series already had the basic storyline, but it featured Kaworu arriving to Tokyo-III in a cute sailor outfit and Kensuke throwing a party, amongst other things (i'm not making this up).

And i just have to post these:
Initial sotryboard draft of the shot of Asuka from the preview for 3.0

Dark (red?) eye instead of eyepatch. Also, am i seeing things, or did they consider giving her some actual devil horns?

But then, Anno changed his mind.

The note reads something like this:
Quote:
Note on the last cut of the trailer with Asuka.
I think we should make her cat lipped!
<- Give her a slight smile, like so.
Translation yet again courtesy of EvaGeeks.
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Old 2010-09-24, 02:11   Link #2503
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Originally Posted by Greg88 View Post
So they didn't know where to go with her yet they changed her character to go with her somewhere at the same time?
They changed her character in a way that kind of showed a cluelessness about where to take her character, and this just helps me confirm that idea.
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Old 2010-09-24, 05:58   Link #2504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg88 View Post
Furthermore, talking about that face peeling scene without the dialog contained therein is completely wrong, so let me just post what's being said in the second part of this version (link to part 1, link to part 2) of said scene, since a fine fellow on EvaGeeks actually provided translations:

So yeah, this sequence was intended as a mindscrew sequence representing a bout of insanity/identity crisis.
Ah then I agree - it carries little significance but being more gory, but I thought it was meant to be as in - really having a face torn off rather than just being mind screwing illusion and thus ending the characters life or the more active role for good.

I think red eye looks better than the retarded eyepatch but again - they screwed the pirate captain Shikinami so much that it doesn't really matter anymore. I still hope that thy will remove the eyepatch eventually as it makes her look retarded but I don't have much hope be it this character or this animation in general.
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Old 2010-09-24, 07:33   Link #2505
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I am glad they didn't include it. , aside from me being an Asuka fan, it definitely would have been in poor taste. What happened in EoE was painful enough.

I am going to have to watch 2.22 again cause I don't remember there being enough development for me to distinguish the two Asuka's.
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Old 2010-09-24, 07:52   Link #2506
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Not a single person in this thread has managed to prove or provide any real evidence on the two Asuka's being the same.
WHAT?

They're different characters, now? OH. MY. GOD. I didn't know that.

Honestly, I only see exaggeration in these claims. No one "proves" they're the same character because it's pretty obvious that they are. Every single one of the characters in the movie had some kind of attenuation over their previous personalities from the TV series. Every single one. Compare and contrast is only so good as long as you keep the focus on the context - and it changed dramatically from the TV series to the movies. Anyone clinging to the notion that they should be the same is only inviting more and more disappointment.

Suffice to say I don't really see the point in so much revolt over the changes being made to her character for these movies. Incidentally, she's my favorite. Always has been and, probably, always will be. I like both "versions" of her, from the TV series and the movies (although I tend to prefer the more unhinged one from the TV series, so far, I do love the slightly more functional one from the movies, as well - plus, eye-patch ftw).
So don't categorize me as not being a "true" fan or anything like that, as it will simply paint you as an intransigent fan to me.
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Old 2010-09-24, 08:47   Link #2507
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Every single one of the characters in the movie had some kind of attenuation over their previous personalities from the TV series. Every single one.
IDK, i thought Kaji was smarmier/smoother than ever.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
They changed her character in a way that kind of showed a cluelessness about where to take her character, and this just helps me confirm that idea.
I'm going to play you an evergreen hit, and say that we can't effectivley judge that until the story is complete, because only then will we know where the creators intended to take Asuka (and everything else, for that matter).

When people are comparing Sohryu to Shikinami, they are measuring up a character from a completed work against a character from a work still in progress, and that's pretty unfair.

But yeah, they are undeniably different characters. At best, they are separate entities based around some similar ideas. However, i already know Sohryu to a complete extent. I can't say the same about Shikinami, since her story isn't even finished yet.

Still on the subject of the whole "face peel" deal with Asuka: the idea of Asuka being confronted with the image of her happy self within Bardiel seems to have made it into the movie, albeit in a way that's almost unnoticable.

You have to squint hard (and turn up the gamma) to see it, but when Asuka gets hit by a beam of light, you can see a face behind said beam. The face looks like this.

To me, that seems like a somewhat distorted version of Asuka as a child, smiling (happy?). Makes one wonder...
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Old 2010-09-24, 10:51   Link #2508
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
This revelation changes a lot - her whole face was peeled of in a guro manner which would either kiled her off or removed from any bigger role later on.

There was a turmoil about it within GAINAX and Asuka's fanbase (as it seems within the company as you know Sadamoto is Rei fanboy while there are others 'fan' of other females too) eventually turned it away due to the reason of Asuka fans potentially overreacting.

If you cannot see the difference in simple light exploding in the face and the whole face being peeled off leaving just a bloody mess of a face remaining after then I have nothing to talk with you.
Did you watch the gif? It's not just light in her face...her face literally explodes.
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Old 2010-09-24, 12:48   Link #2509
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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
Honestly, I only see exaggeration in these claims. No one "proves" they're the same character because it's pretty obvious that they are. Every single one of the characters in the movie had some kind of attenuation over their previous personalities from the TV series. Every single one. Compare and contrast is only so good as long as you keep the focus on the context - and it changed dramatically from the TV series to the movies. Anyone clinging to the notion that they should be the same is only inviting more and more disappointment.
No real content in your post that convinces me otherwise. Do I need to requote everything I said about her to rehash this discussion? Please if it is so obvious tell me why it is so obvious rather than just saying it. I've been waiting for anyone in this thread to explain it to me.
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Old 2010-09-24, 14:13   Link #2510
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
No real content in your post that convinces me otherwise. Do I need to requote everything I said about her to rehash this discussion? Please if it is so obvious tell me why it is so obvious rather than just saying it. I've been waiting for anyone in this thread to explain it to me.
I think he means that you can't really expect any character to be exactly the same from the TV series.
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Old 2010-09-24, 14:21   Link #2511
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I think he means that you can't really expect any character to be exactly the same from the TV series.
I understood this fine. The title is still Evangelion. The characters still mostly have the same names and drawn characters. The Eva is still there. The director is the same. These movies are clearly marketed towards old fandom to catch fire. Depressed or not, Anno clearly made Evangelion with a purpose focused around the problems of the hedge hog's dilemma, and the various ways Shinji (Or probably he himself) approached this matter from many different philosophies.

Even if there is a different purpose (Have yet to see one clearly?) to these movies why even include any bits about the hedge hog's dilemma if he hasn't even approached it in a different way yet?

So sorry, yes I can expect the characters to be the "same" characters fromt he TV series. Changing the storyline is fine, changing the end result is fine, as long as its within character of the main cast of Evangelion. Asuka is NOT in character (In fact, she's almost a completley different character), Shinji was NOT in character at the end of 2.0, Rei is definitely NOT in character.

Yeah, Evangelion was a "super-robots" show, but that is not what made this series clearly stand out from the rest. It was the characters, and the way it managed to connect with the audience in an almost unprecedented way in anime at the time. If these characters are no longer the same, it is taking away what made Evangelion well Evangelion. Honestly, just make a new series if that is the case.
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Old 2010-09-24, 15:28   Link #2512
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Yeah, your reasoning works for you, but don't expect it to work for others. Clearly it doesn't work for me and - sorry - I cannot explain how obviously I believe the characters to be the same, because it's too darn obvious to me. I don't really want or need the trouble to produce reasons as I don't really see the point.
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Old 2010-09-24, 17:08   Link #2513
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Yeah, your reasoning works for you, but don't expect it to work for others. Clearly it doesn't work for me and - sorry - I cannot explain how obviously I believe the characters to be the same, because it's too darn obvious to me. I don't really want or need the trouble to produce reasons as I don't really see the point.
It can't be both obvious and hard to explain. That's almost a contradiction. This isn't higher mathematics or anything. I'm just asking for a few reasons, anything.

If my reasoning doesn't work, tell me why. Is it honestly that hard to form something concrete about your opinion?

EDIT: Why state you disagree and then say you don't see a point to backing up your statements then?

Last edited by Reckoner; 2010-09-24 at 17:34.
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Old 2010-09-25, 02:50   Link #2514
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It can't be both obvious and hard to explain. That's almost a contradiction.
Actually, no, it isn't. When something seems way too obvious, one can find it difficult to explain in simple words. Case in point: I think you're overanalising - but hey, more power to you.

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EDIT: Why state you disagree and then say you don't see a point to backing up your statements then?
Because I simply don't care to? This is a public forum and I just felt a need to sound my opinion - I don't need the validation of someone else agreeing with me. And I'm not in the debate club anymore, not for a long time.
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Old 2010-09-25, 05:48   Link #2515
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Actually, no, it isn't. When something seems way too obvious, one can find it difficult to explain in simple words. Case in point: I think you're overanalising - but hey, more power to you.


Because I simply don't care to? This is a public forum and I just felt a need to sound my opinion - I don't need the validation of someone else agreeing with me. And I'm not in the debate club anymore, not for a long time.
Exactly this is a forum. A place for discussion. Stating an opinion is not a discussion if you aren't even willing to discuss it. I'm not saying you need validation, just that you have zero credibility and an absolute garbage assertion without any evidence to back up anything you say.
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Old 2010-09-25, 06:42   Link #2516
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People are free to say if they don't want to post their thoughts on not. I can totally understand why BetoJR wouldn't want to say anything, because after he does, it'll just lead to more debating, which he has already pointed out that he doesn't like doing anymore. You should just respect that, instead of badgering on about the topic.
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Old 2010-09-25, 11:37   Link #2517
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Exactly this is a forum. A place for discussion. Stating an opinion is not a discussion if you aren't even willing to discuss it. I'm not saying you need validation, just that you have zero credibility and an absolute garbage assertion without any evidence to back up anything you say.
You sir, have lost all my respect. I don't really intend to reply to any more of your drivel. Have a nice life.
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Old 2010-09-25, 14:59   Link #2518
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You sir, have lost all my respect. I don't really intend to reply to any more of your drivel. Have a nice life.
Thank you for once again for not providing anything to back up your arguments. Your personal issues are of no concern to me. Please don't troll next time.

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People are free to say if they don't want to post their thoughts on not. I can totally understand why BetoJR wouldn't want to say anything, because after he does, it'll just lead to more debating, which he has already pointed out that he doesn't like doing anymore. You should just respect that, instead of badgering on about the topic.
My point was that he never even debated, he just simply stated something contrary to what I said, and pretty much gave a "lolwut" response to my points. It's borderline trolling. I don't care if he wanted to just state something earlier, as long as he didn't try to degrade what I already said in this thread.

Also, if people come here to simply say "I like" or "I dislike," then what's the point? You could better serve that purpose in rating anime series on ANN or something. Yeah, it's cool to have an opinion, but I would like opinions that can be clearly explained. That's why I even bother with forums in the first place, otherwise I could get the same information from rating websites.

People are also too touchy I feel. Not once did I actually get personal with him. Perhaps I post in too much of an aggressive manner? Oh well.
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Old 2010-09-27, 23:16   Link #2519
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I'm not even worried about Asuka being the same or not. I think the biggest problem for me is she (along) with Mari are borderline superfluous fanservice characters. You could try swapping them with a nameless character, and it'd have the same effect.

They don't add value to the story; their only existence is to be pushed along with the plot. A good character drives the plot. A good character develops the sense of you giving a damn about what happens to them. Oh sure, Asuka's there to get messed up in Toji's place but tossing in a character and having something bad happen to them doesn't count-- it's just lazy.

Now there's certainly much to talk about. The implications of Asuka having a different last name, and her obviously different background. But none of this is really bothered upon. She's there for the sake of being there. And of course, Mari is the same. The result is I have nothing to say about these characters, nothing to write. It's extremely shallow, especially when I can even understand Kawrou's motivations and personality better (Rebuild seems to be doing well with him, btw)

And of course, yes, everyone knows there's 2 movies left. But I don't pretend to predict the future and give them credit for "what can be done" Anything can be done, so obviously anyone's assessment is what we have so far. If it turns out to be a case of Fridge Brillance , that'd be nice. Which I see a way, but I can't be so easy can I?

So yea, as of right now, Asuka Shikinami is an unfortunate waste of space and potential.
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Old 2010-10-31, 09:57   Link #2520
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A summary of 2.0's last moments. Genius, pure genius.
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