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View Poll Results: To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 33 33.67%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 29.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 17.35%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 7.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 6.12%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 3.06%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-10-31, 08:59   Link #141
Keroko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
There is nothing that prevents an author to choose BOTH reality and "cool" factor.
Well no, there are plenty of stories in many genres that prove that it's not needed. Not unless you want to write a story about things that aren't real, like magic. And there are just as many examples of stories that bend or even completely ignore reality and are no less entertaining because of it.

Random example, we know throwing around lightning bare-handed is impossible for a human, but we don't mind one bit when Mikoto does this. Reality is an acceptable sacrifice when it comes to a story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
As for throwing melee weapons, it was half sarcasm half serious: their weapons are actually trash as they are since they have to go in melee range, ultimately incapacitated by Index then.
Throwing these would arguably be the best solution, even if it isn't optimal. For all it is worth, they were basically acting like bunch of helpless grunts before that group went on the extreme instead of finding a solution.
It's worse than not optimal, you'd have trouble hitting someone when throwing a sword. Of course, after throwing your weapon it brings problem number two: Now you're in the middle of a fight without a weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
And as explained before, Index cannot use spell intercept on a full group, so she would be overwhelmed. Magically and Physically, they had the means to deal with her without going with the pens galore.
If the entire group uses the same spell, spell intercept would work on all of them. The only block in spell intercept seems to be that each intercept is specifically tailored for a certain spell, but if all the nuns come at her with torches, that doesn't help much. They'd all be intercepted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
In any case, nightengale definitely pointed the purpose of such scenes, but that alone doesn't clear anything though. The author made some choices that aren't exactly the best, I see no reason to defend tooth and nails for that, although that was minor compared to JC staff rendition.
Oh, I acknowledge the lack of reality, I just don't think it's as bad a scene as you do (though I would have preferred more pained expressions like the novel described). Like I said, it's pretty much a mileage may vary scene.
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Old 2010-10-31, 09:14   Link #142
Ice Block
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.
She can move while doing that chant. And they need to puncture their eardrums so that they can move in and attack. Basically, as long as Index is chanting Sheol Fear, all the nuns capable of hearing her are incapacitated. Also, this isn't a 1vs250 battle. Index has allies too, and they can capitalize on her crowd control. It'll be extremely easy to fend off ranged casters when all the melee zerging you are incapacitated. Also, throwing swords? That'd just be plain silly. A distance wherein you can throw your sword (these things are heavy, you know) and accurately hit her (she could always just evade) while not being able to hear her at the same time does not exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Assuming they somehow can shrug that off, there is the sudden damage to vestibular system
Wrong. It is a little bit deeper, and you can even mess up the cochlea a little and still sustain no damage to the vestibular system. See the images below.


Any more complaints?
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Old 2010-10-31, 09:26   Link #143
Jarmel
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Does anyone here scuba dive? Ever ruptured your ear drum? Unless shock is kicking in for all those nuns, chances are most of them are down for the count.

But whatever, can we just accept that it's not close to reality and move on? I doubt the author has a medical background so honestly it's not that big of a deal.
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Old 2010-10-31, 09:43   Link #144
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
It's worse than not optimal, you'd have trouble hitting someone when throwing a sword. Of course, after throwing your weapon it brings problem number two: Now you're in the middle of a fight without a weapon.
We are assuming bunch of zealots who would go as far as exterminating any of their enemy, even sacrificing their own defense, or their very life. So hitting one of them comrades is hardly one of their worries, so long they can fulfill their mission, which is put in jeopardy due to Sheol Fear. I never claimed it is a rational solution, but if people factor their fervor for the pain suppression, you should also factor this very fervor as the driving spirit to do anything against their enemies.
The idea isn't to kill Index in a single blow, but I really doubt Index herself would remain calm with weapons hurled at her, regardless if the accuracy isn't good or anything. And the disarmed portion doesn't mean jack due to their sheer numbers that would be recovered as soon Sheol Fear threat is sealed. If this method can stop Index continuing the song, that would be the only thing they needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
She can move while doing that chant.
If the light novel describes this, this is yet another issue from the anime alone. There is nothing in this episode that would suggest she can move while singing, except she is rotating. If she could move, why wouldn't she just run around and incapacitate everyone? At the very worst, Styil and co could simply run away leaving the dirty job to the disruptive wave loli.
Quote:
Also, this isn't a 1vs250 battle. Index has allies too, and they can capitalize on her crowd control.
Except that they cannot approach Index because of the restriction of that song, explained by Styil. And if they were really supporting her, the staff has yet again failed to convey a "brawl" as explained previously.
Quote:
It'll be extremely easy to fend off ranged casters when all the melee zerging you are incapacitated.
Incorrect, because a huge portion of the melee nuns were spread around, attacking every damn enemies within their range.
Quote:
Also, throwing swords? That'd just be plain silly. A distance wherein you can throw your sword (these things are heavy, you know) and accurately hit her (she could always just evade) while not being able to hear her at the same time does not exist.
It is as silly as a supposed nun group being able to sneak that close to Index in order to attack her, but sitll "not in hearing range".
Also, as asked previously, it would also require the said episode to SHOW that Index CAN move while performing that chant, which they simply didn't.
Quote:
Wrong. It is a little bit deeper, and you can even mess up the cochlea a little and still sustain no damage to the vestibular system. See the images below.
Any more complaints?
The part of the fountain pens that pierce their ears is approximately 5cm (comparing their thumb with the actual piercing part). And this is approximately the double of the ear canal (2,6cm -starting- from the pinna). It is very unlikely they would be able to avoid damage to the vestibular system, unless they only pierced 3,5cm at most, which would have required shorter pens in this case.

*sigh*, I guess I will drop it as well. It will be a circle of arguments from both sides as silly and irrealistic as what we were shown.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2010-10-31 at 10:14.
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Old 2010-10-31, 10:17   Link #145
giorno
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Well, we don't know how far the pen stabbed, but they at least went deep enough to rip the eardrums out...as for how they could do that, it's probably a combination of extreme training and magic. Even in the novels there is no mention of a magic to prevent the loss of balance though...
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Old 2010-10-31, 11:05   Link #146
zeniselv
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this is the character point of view, so this is probably what they think they saw in that scene, is like when you seesomeone with a cut in their head most ppl see the injury so deep that is easy to think the cut went trough the skull.
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Old 2010-10-31, 11:17   Link #147
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This thread certainly took an interesting direction.
I enjoyed this episode. I completely forgot about the ear stabbing from the light novels, took me by surprise. Next week we have the grand finale. Can't wait.
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Old 2010-10-31, 11:39   Link #148
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Anyone got a delicious gif of Itsuwa-chan "springyly" spinning her fork-halberd as she kicks Nun-Arse?

My she is as cute as the message boards keep saying she is!!
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Old 2010-10-31, 13:46   Link #149
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First off, Itsuwa gifs. They're both around 2mb, so just make do with links:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2388/020402.gif
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5746/020403.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
There is nothing in this episode that would suggest she can move while singing, except she is rotating. If she could move, why wouldn't she just run around and incapacitate everyone? At the very worst, Styil and co could simply run away leaving the dirty job to the disruptive wave loli.
Which is the same as moving. Seriously, you don't use your legs to turn around? No, she's not levitating there. You can clearly see her feet on the ground on the few shots right after she started the chant. And why would she run around? The enemies are separated enough such that if she moved to another group, the group she incapacitated would have a chance to recover and regroup. Not a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Except that they cannot approach Index because of the restriction of that song, explained by Styil. And if they were really supporting her, the staff has yet again failed to convey a "brawl" as explained previously.
Why would they need to approach her? You can support from a distance, too. Did you see what they were doing? That's called holding a perimeter. Did you see any ranged attacks going through? No, right? That's because they were there to either 1) soak them, or 2) prevent them altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Incorrect, because a huge portion of the melee nuns were spread around, attacking every damn enemies within their range.
I thought we were talking about Index? They can zerg all other targets however much they want, but it doesn't matter. The point is, all the nuns around Index are incapacitated, and they have thus created a friendly perimeter within their enemy's base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It is as silly as a supposed nun group being able to sneak that close to Index in order to attack her, but sitll "not in hearing range".
You need to take height discrepancies and acoustics into account too. She's not exactly shouting at the top of her lungs here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The part of the fountain pens that pierce their ears is approximately 5cm (comparing their thumb with the actual piercing part). And this is approximately the double of the ear canal (2,6cm -starting- from the pinna). It is very unlikely they would be able to avoid damage to the vestibular system, unless they only pierced 3,5cm at most, which would have required shorter pens in this case.
Looks more like 2.5-3 cm to me (depending on average length of female Italian thumbs). See image below. The upper half of the right thumb (ie, distance between the tip of the thumb and the first joint of the thumb; this averages to an inch, or 2.54 cm) of the nun has almost the same length as that of the fountain pen's nib that it is holding. As we can see from the second pic, she only inserted the white-encircled portion of the first pic, using the red-encircled portion as reference.


Average length of the ear canal from the bottom of the concha up to the eardrum is 2.5 cm. Average distance from the eardrum to the opposite wall of the tympanic cavity is .2 cm, totaling to 2.7 cm. However, you don't have direct access to the vestibule and the semicircular canals, unless you tilt and twist the pen upwards (which would require some effort, seeing as you're fighting against cartilage and bone here) and then stab it in further, pushing through the stapes. This means that even if 5 cm of the fountain pen was inserted, it still wouldn't damage the vestibular system. See pics below:
Spoiler for The Human Ear:
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Old 2010-10-31, 18:19   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
First off, Itsuwa gifs. They're both around 2mb, so just make do with links:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2388/020402.gif
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5746/020403.gif
HELLO!

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Old 2010-10-31, 18:47   Link #151
outerelf
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well, there was a scene I was hoping that would be animated but not. It's too bad, because this would've been hilarious:

Spoiler for Novel:
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Old 2010-10-31, 22:37   Link #152
Yui Is My Wife
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I Find if funny how although Kuroko-chan is gay, she endearingly still squees over heterosexual romances and gets excited about people she's fond of/respects makes progress in said conventional romances, no to mention help them in such relationships, such as in the case of the Dorm Mother in Railgun.

Our lovable psycho lesbian won't be appearing for another episode yet, alas.
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Old 2010-10-31, 23:08   Link #153
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
First off, Itsuwa gifs. They're both around 2mb, so just make do with links:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2388/020402.gif
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5746/020403.gif
Don't mind the weight, thanks for those gifs +_+

Quote:
Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
well, there was a scene I was hoping that would be animated but not. It's too bad, because this would've been hilarious:

Spoiler for Novel:
I have to disagree, that probably would have killed the mood, but if you take a closer look Kanzaki has the bandages on her left hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
I Find if funny how although Kuroko-chan is gay, she endearingly still squees over heterosexual romances and gets excited about people she's fond of/respects makes progress in said conventional romances, no to mention help them in such relationships, such as in the case of the Dorm Mother in Railgun. (
Isn't the proper thread but she squeezes over it because by ridding off the Dorm Manager she would have more free time to spend with Mikoto and using her powers without being punished.
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Old 2010-10-31, 23:20   Link #154
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I have to disagree, that probably would have killed the mood, but if you take a closer look Kanzaki has the bandages on her left hand.
I don't know how "close" is a "closer" look for this episode but I see nothing.

And whatever that was on that said left hand, I'm pretty sure those aren't bandages.

Spoiler for Bandages?:
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Old 2010-10-31, 23:35   Link #155
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Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
I don't know how "close" is a "closer" look for this episode but I see nothing.

And whatever that was on that said left hand, I'm pretty sure those aren't bandages.

Spoiler for Bandages?:
Don't worry about it too much. Cocaine's a helluva drug.
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Old 2010-11-01, 00:22   Link #156
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yay Kaori~

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Old 2010-11-01, 07:29   Link #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Which is the same as moving. Seriously, you don't use your legs to turn around? No, she's not levitating there. You can clearly see her feet on the ground on the few shots right after she started the chant. And why would she run around? The enemies are separated enough such that if she moved to another group, the group she incapacitated would have a chance to recover and regroup. Not a good idea.
It's actually not the same. You can turn around even if you have only one leg but you can't run or even make sudden movements can you? Turning around is a lot different then walking/running let alone dodging something.

And actually if she was able to move, going around singing would have been the best idea. I doubt the nuns that were incapacitated by her song would recover 10 seconds after she moved away and that's plenty of time for some of her allies to knock them unconscious/ disarm them or something of the sort. So it's a great idea actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Why would they need to approach her? You can support from a distance, too. Did you see what they were doing? That's called holding a perimeter. Did you see any ranged attacks going through? No, right? That's because they were there to either 1) soak them, or 2) prevent them altogether.
In this case you can't support from a distance. They were clearly not holding a perimeter if the nuns were able to practically stand on top of Index. And no I didn't see any ranged attacks going through because no one was using ranged attacks there to begin with. I'm pretty sure they would have gone through with ease considering the nuns got so close. However, if they used ranged attacks the whole "we're so devoted to God we ready to die without a doubt in our mind while fighting his enemies" scene with the pens wouldn't happen altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
I thought we were talking about Index? They can zerg all other targets however much they want, but it doesn't matter. The point is, all the nuns around Index are incapacitated, and they have thus created a friendly perimeter within their enemy's base.
Soo...they can zerg everyone else thus leaving index completely vulnerable to all sort of range attacks? And it's not a friendly perimeter if only she can stay in it. Sure safe for her maybe, but not for everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
You need to take height discrepancies and acoustics into account too. She's not exactly shouting at the top of her lungs here.
The nuns are about 5 -6 metres from the ground and around 4 and a half metres from Index. let's say 5 just to be sure. So after she turned to face them before they punctured their eardrums they were unable to hear her. There was no indication of wind thus that's out of the equation. Acoustics won't play a large role here due to the small distance between them. Overall there is no reason for them not to be able to hear her.

At that distance they could simply throw the tiles on the roof at her and there were more than enough of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Looks more like 2.5-3 cm to me (depending on average length of female Italian thumbs). See image below. The upper half of the right thumb (ie, distance between the tip of the thumb and the first joint of the thumb; this averages to an inch, or 2.54 cm) of the nun has almost the same length as that of the fountain pen's nib that it is holding. As we can see from the second pic, she only inserted the white-encircled portion of the first pic, using the red-encircled portion as reference.
Actually no - what we can see from the picture is that she inserted a lot more than just the nib.
Spoiler for pictures:

If you look closely, you'll see a "golden" ring.
On the second image, you can't see it so the only other option is that it's obscured by the thumb. Since we're looking at the ear from an angle part of what we see is already inside the ear canal. You can also see the pen gets a bit thinner right around where it's already entered the ear canal and that part of the pen can be clearly seen on the first picture as well.
This leaves us with a length indicated by the blue line if not a bit more (considering the thinner part of the pen is longer than what I marked). That's almost 1.5 times longer than the upper part of the thumb which with the information you provided will be at around 3.5 to 4 centimetres or maybe even a bit more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Average length of the ear canal from the bottom of the concha up to the eardrum is 2.5 cm. Average distance from the eardrum to the opposite wall of the tympanic cavity is .2 cm, totaling to 2.7 cm. However, you don't have direct access to the vestibule and the semicircular canals, unless you tilt and twist the pen upwards (which would require some effort, seeing as you're fighting against cartilage and bone here) and then stab it in further, pushing through the stapes. This means that even if 5 cm of the fountain pen was inserted, it still wouldn't damage the vestibular system. See pics below:
Well the ear canal itself is pointed slightly upwards thus if you insert an object it will go slightly upwards as well. Even if you don't damage the vestibule system directly just right after your eardrum gets punctured it results in very sharp pain, vertigo (meaning your balance is compromised) and sometimes even "ringing" in your ear which further serves to compromise your sense of balance. And that happens when there's a small whole in it, let alone if you shove a fountain pen(very sharp tip) in your ear that completely pierces your eardrums and stops a good 1-1.5 centimetres after that.

Now this is over-analysing something.
It's completely redundant since clearly it's just a scene that was supposed to reinforce a point. Whether we like it or not is a whole other issue (imo it could have been made a lot better). If we start looking for more logical things that should have happened this will never end. Simple as that.

Last edited by Joe_fh; 2010-11-01 at 12:32. Reason: found a spelling mistake...
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Old 2010-11-01, 08:13   Link #158
thirdlc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
The squeals of the nuns as they get defeated, how they feel so disorganized and simply rushed around like untrained girls, the lack of any combat posture when they surround the enemies, the way they're animated when they run. ( like each of them was individually drawn by different outsourced animators from China )
Yes, part of the inbetweeners were Chinese, but we don't have any evidence that they animated those scenes. Above all, inbetweeners have nothing to do with the quality of an episode/scene.
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Old 2010-11-01, 09:35   Link #159
ahelo
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Index on the groove. Im liking it. Moar Index in action pls. My ears kinda hurt too watching this episode.
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Old 2010-11-01, 10:19   Link #160
OkamiNoKaze
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Well, this episode was pretty cool, Night of the Living Nuns, Bwhahahaha!!!!!, it is nice seeing Index taking a more active role in fights now, between last episode and this one. Sheol Fear, would be awesome to use at Westboro Baptist Rally/protest
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