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Old 2010-11-01, 22:57   Link #321
karice67
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Originally Posted by Heibi View Post
Plus I don't think Alto is the type to call someone a "slut" or "bitch". He was definitely referring to her way of dressing.
I prefer "exhibitionist" myself, meaning-wise...it's just a bit of a mouthful for an insult in a verbal argument like they were having. But "skank" would work.

For THORA viewers, caught a somewhat serious mistranslation at ~15mins (Michel's warning) => "The way you are now, you'll either get yourself or someone else killed one day" (more literally: "one day, you'll die or kill someone else.")

Interesting smile on Alto's face here (~18:25)
Spoiler for pic:


Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Ranka
I just noticed it from re-watching episodes one-three again and Ranka didn't really react to Gilliam's death even though she was there, and even after Alto tells Ranka that the pilot who died is really the person that she should be thanking, she never bothers to find out from Ozma who Gilliam was, and instead tries to find out who the pilot who is as "pretty as a princess" was. There is also the fact that she basically saw the same things Alto did that day and yet she doesn't seem affected by it (unlike Alto). However, once she saw her Ozma injured she reacted, but when it was other people in trouble she doesn't react. Its a discerning thing to notice.
Interesting observation. Certainly something to think about as we keep watching...(Hm...did you perhaps mean "disconcerting" instead of "discerning"?)

And commentary episode again next!
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Old 2010-11-01, 23:36   Link #322
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
I prefer "exhibitionist" myself, meaning-wise...it's just a bit of a mouthful for an insult in a verbal argument like they were having. But "skank" would work.

For THORA viewers, caught a somewhat serious mistranslation at ~15mins (Michel's warning) => "The way you are now, you'll either get yourself or someone else killed one day" (more literally: "one day, you'll die or kill someone else.")

Interesting smile on Alto's face here (~18:25)
Spoiler for pic:


Interesting observation. Certainly something to think about as we keep watching...(Hm...did you perhaps mean "disconcerting" instead of "discerning"?)

And commentary episode again next!
Thanks for the correction, I did actually mean disconcerting.

After watching the TFD and going back and re-watching the TV series this behavior stands out more.
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Old 2010-11-02, 04:55   Link #323
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And I completely agree about Gilliams importance for Alto.
Yeah i'll also agree with it. Plus on the original watch when it was airing, i knew Gilliam's death played a part on Alto's growth as a character, though not this much. Goes to show how important a rewatch can be.
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Old 2010-11-02, 04:57   Link #324
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On Ranka's reaction to Gilliam's death I always assumed she just forgot about it. You'll note she doesn't even seem to remember seeing Ozma wounded. I just figured her dissociative amnesia kicked in again with Gilliam as well, thus why she stays innocent and more interested in the hot, bishy pilot that didn't go squish.

The real question would be how much she remembers of that trauma. She may not remember anything until she woke up in Alto's arms (where she honestly seems surprised to see Alto).
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Old 2010-11-02, 04:58   Link #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
For THORA viewers, caught a somewhat serious mistranslation at ~15mins (Michel's warning) => "The way you are now, you'll either get yourself or someone else killed one day" (more literally: "one day, you'll die or kill someone else.")
Hm, yeah, that changes the meaning a bit, but not the essence of Michaels warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Interesting smile on Alto's face here (~18:25)
Spoiler for pic:
What, you mean Alto also is jealous of Sheryls natural beauty?
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Old 2010-11-02, 09:23   Link #326
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
On Ranka's reaction to Gilliam's death I always assumed she just forgot about it. You'll note she doesn't even seem to remember seeing Ozma wounded. I just figured her dissociative amnesia kicked in again with Gilliam as well, thus why she stays innocent and more interested in the hot, bishy pilot that didn't go squish.

The real question would be how much she remembers of that trauma. She may not remember anything until she woke up in Alto's arms (where she honestly seems surprised to see Alto).
All well and fine except Ranka remembers the fact that Ozma was wounded, and her brushing off Gilliam's death happened almost right afterward, when Alto saved her. Then Alto himself tells her that she should thank the person who made the effort to save her and yet she doesn't even try. To me that really doesn't make a person innocent, it just means that they need help, because a person who can't react or remember the death of others can be dangerous.
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Old 2010-11-02, 12:08   Link #327
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Might have to rewatch it again and check, I really don't remember her remembering everything.

Yay, irony.
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Old 2010-11-02, 12:09   Link #328
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
All well and fine except Ranka remembers the fact that Ozma was wounded, and her brushing off Gilliam's death happened almost right afterward, when Alto saved her. Then Alto himself tells her that she should thank the person who made the effort to save her and yet she doesn't even try. To me that really doesn't make a person innocent, it just means that they need help, because a person who can't react or remember the death of others can be dangerous.
Or...she is just a naive and stupid little girl.
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Old 2010-11-02, 17:26   Link #329
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1000% FACTUAL LINER NOTES (Episode 3)

Kawamori's Commentary
#03 - On Your Marks
Script: Hiroyuki Yoshino / Storyboard and Production: Takao Abo / Art Direction: Futoshi Fujikawa
Well, someone always gets locked in at some point in Macross (laughs). While we'd had people be trapped before, we'd never done it with three people. The "Tuna Bun" design was a labor of love for our scriptwriter (Hiroyuki) Yoshino and the artist (laughs). The "chest portion" of the episode was described by Yoshino, and the artist decided to imagine what it would look like. Griffith Park is a reference to the landscape of the Griffith Park Observatory in L.A.


Macross Check! (from DVD Vol. 2 Booklet)
1. When Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka get trapped (as Kawamori notes) it's a reference to episode four of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross, where Hikaru and Minmay get trapped in a remote section of the ship.

2. The Tuna Buns are also a reference to that episode. Additionally, "tuna" is "Maguro" in Japanese, which has a similar sound to "Macross" ("Makurosu").
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Old 2010-11-02, 17:45   Link #330
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
1. When Alto, Sheryl, and Ranka get trapped (as Kawamori notes) it's a reference to episode four of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross, where Hikaru and Minmay get trapped in a remote section of the ship.
I liked Hikaru and Minmay's predicament better. We had a lot more development. All we got here was learning that Ranka is a cry baby and seeing just how awesome Sheryl is.


And thanks for the commentary and all.
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Old 2010-11-02, 17:49   Link #331
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Or...she is just a naive and stupid little girl.
Or perhaps...and this is merely speculation, mind you...it's just a TV series with only about 22 minutes to an episode, and having Ranka ask about Gilliam would entail four or five minutes of Ranka/Ozma talk that wouldn't move the plot forward, but would actually push it back, since really, the only reasons Gilliam was in the show in the first place were to provide Alto with a VF, get a rather shocking death, and to have a funeral which explains a) a little more about how SMS does things differently than the NUNS forces, and b) how Frontier is a closed environmental system.

In episode 13, the entire 33rd Marine Division gets killed after specifically requesting Sheryl's performance. Does she ever ask about them? Does that likewise make her worthy of censure?
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:22   Link #332
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
a) a little more about how SMS does things differently than the NUNS forces, and b) how Frontier is a closed environmental system.
Speaking of...how is there a body to "bury" anyway? He was crushed into mincemeat.
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:32   Link #333
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I think what weirds people out the most is that she asks about the pretty pilot to Ozma when Gilliam just died. I guess come to think of it now this actually isn't that odd, since at that time Ranka thought Ozma had an obscure desk job at SMS. She didn't have any clue Gilliam was one of Ozma's men to ask and empathize with him on. As for the 33rd, I'm not sure what Sheryl could have asked. No one she knew knew anyone from the planet as far as I know, and she already knew who all the survivors were by the time by the time the narrative picks up again, including Grace.

Though slight difference between a pilot getting killed trying to protect you and a marine army that took you hostage after you came all the way over there to resolve their petty civil war who got blown up apparently randomly.

Of course, unbeknownst to Sheryl, that bomb was actually intended to assassinate her and blame it on the Vajra. A planet-killing bomb to kill Sheryl Nome. A planet-killing bomb that you sort of committed suicide with to kill Sheryl Nome. And you missed. That's like nuking Washington DC to assassinate the President only to discover that he boarded Air Force One four hours ago and flew to New York.

In short: Epic Fail, Grace. I mean sure you got the 33rd, but did anyone actually care?

Wait, we're on episode 3. Episode 3... episode 3...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Speaking of...how is there a body to "bury" anyway? He was crushed into mincemeat.
I presume they picked up the pieces. Eheh. That couldn't have been enjoyable.

How serious does everyone think Sheryl's threat was in that episode? The one about destroying them socially as well as physically. I mean we all know Grace could do it quite handily...

*Looks back at what I just wrote about the Galia-IV incident*

... Presumably, but do you think Sheryl really would have done it if the tabloids got a hold of her topless pics? Not that this would have happened anyway since she made it assuming they might have implants to record this stuff (being from Galaxy that's what's she's used to), and this being Frontier they obviously didn't, but still, discuss~
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:40   Link #334
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I liked Hikaru and Minmay's predicament better. We had a lot more development. All we got here was learning that Ranka is a cry baby and seeing just how awesome Sheryl is.
Just compare how long Hikaru/Minmay were trapped to Alto/Sheryl/Ranka.
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Old 2010-11-02, 18:45   Link #335
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
In episode 13, the entire 33rd Marine Division gets killed after specifically requesting Sheryl's performance. Does she ever ask about them? Does that likewise make her worthy of censure?

You never know! Maybe she worried about them behind the scenesXD

Anyway, watching the episode again. I realized that Michael looks out for Alto more than he shows it. He's been around Alto for far too long that he can predict Alto's behavior.

Alto on the other hand seems insecured of Michael for being more of a man than he is, combating Vajra and whatnot and generally being cool, unlike him who is useless.

Michael hit a nerve when he said Alto was looking for another reason to run away. This caused conflicting emotions inside Alto--denial and frustration. He doesn't have a strong enough reason to throw away his life but he also didn't want to do nothing in this chaos.

In the middle of this dilemma, Alto heard Ranka's song and all those conflicting emotions VanisheD. And this is why I really realized that it really was Ranka that pushed Alto to join SMS.

It was the same in episode 1 when they cut off his corkscrew for Sheryl's concert because it draws attention away from Sheryl. He was nonchalant about the whole thing. But after he met Ranka, his spirit went back up and did the corkscrew whether his crew liked it or not.

There's something about little green girl that sparks Alto is what I noticed. In other words, she makes him do crazy stuffs lmfao

Sheryl is nothing but a prima donna here but it also made me think that she can act that way because she knows she deserves it.

Not only that but this point in the story makes it look like Sheryl has everything and Ranka only has Ozma. Good balance considering what happens laaaater.
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Old 2010-11-02, 19:13   Link #336
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Or perhaps...and this is merely speculation, mind you...it's just a TV series with only about 22 minutes to an episode, and having Ranka ask about Gilliam would entail four or five minutes of Ranka/Ozma talk that wouldn't move the plot forward, but would actually push it back, since really, the only reasons Gilliam was in the show in the first place were to provide Alto with a VF, get a rather shocking death, and to have a funeral which explains a) a little more about how SMS does things differently than the NUNS forces, and b) how Frontier is a closed environmental system.

In episode 13, the entire 33rd Marine Division gets killed after specifically requesting Sheryl's performance. Does she ever ask about them? Does that likewise make her worthy of censure?
Did anyone ask about the 33rd after their demise or were they all too wrapped up in getting nearly destroyed by the Vajra?

The difference is here that we saw Alto caring about Gilliams death. And we saw Ranka not even thinking about it for a second.

We didn't see anyone having even the time to mourn the 33rd, because they had to stop the giant Vajra fleet of death. The show moved on with its plot the next episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mei19 View Post

In the middle of this dilemma, Alto heard Ranka's song and all those conflicting emotions VanisheD. And this is why I really realized that it really was Ranka that pushed Alto to join SMS.

It was the same in episode 1 when they cut off his corkscrew for Sheryl's concert because it draws attention away from Sheryl. He was nonchalant about the whole thing. But after he met Ranka, his spirit went back up and did the corkscrew whether his crew liked it or not.

There's something about little green girl that sparks Alto is what I noticed. In other words, she makes him do crazy stuffs lmfao
First off, no, Alto was upset at being denied doing the corkscrew. He did it to spite Michael, who expressly forbid it and then teased Alto about it.

And saying that Alto only joined SMS because of Rankas singing is incredibly simplistic. There is a host of reasons why Alto joined. Wanting to protect Ranka, wanting to protect his home, charting his own future, not running away anymore, wanting to fly in a less limited space, wanting to fly the VF-25. And I'd probably find more reasons if I'd go deeper into Altos motivations.
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Old 2010-11-02, 19:52   Link #337
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Or perhaps...and this is merely speculation, mind you...it's just a TV series with only about 22 minutes to an episode, and having Ranka ask about Gilliam would entail four or five minutes of Ranka/Ozma talk that wouldn't move the plot forward, but would actually push it back, since really, the only reasons Gilliam was in the show in the first place were to provide Alto with a VF, get a rather shocking death, and to have a funeral which explains a) a little more about how SMS does things differently than the NUNS forces, and b) how Frontier is a closed environmental system.

In episode 13, the entire 33rd Marine Division gets killed after specifically requesting Sheryl's performance. Does she ever ask about them? Does that likewise make her worthy of censure?
Well in the subsequent episodes after episode 13, where is Sheryl? She isn't well enough to start going making inquiries she's in the hospital. She's also not in the position to get this kind of information. Not only that but directly afterward they had to deal with the another Vajra attack, as opposed to episodes 1-5. Also it wouldn't take more than 5-minutes to ask about Gilliam as she could have included it in her inquiry about Alto.

@Lancel
She thought Ozma had a desk job, so if she believed that the desk job would make him know "the pretty pilot" then it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the desk job would make him know who recently died at SMS (which would probably be common knowledge to the members of SMS).

Last edited by wisteria233; 2010-11-02 at 20:02.
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Old 2010-11-02, 20:13   Link #338
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That's true, but I dunno, I mean I work at a workplace with about a hundred people and I can't say I know most of them. That said if someone asked me "Who did X?" I could probably find that out through various records. That seemed the gist of what Ranka was getting at, use his job to find out who that pilot was and give her a name to stalk. It might be slightly insensitive though to ask. Though I suppose it is really insensitive that Ranka didn't try to be there for Gilliam's funeral, in retrospect, given he pretty much died trying to protect her, even if he may have only seen Alto.
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Old 2010-11-02, 20:27   Link #339
wisteria233
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Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
That's true, but I dunno, I mean I work at a workplace with about a hundred people and I can't say I know most of them. That said if someone asked me "Who did X?" I could probably find that out through various records. That seemed the gist of what Ranka was getting at, use his job to find out who that pilot was and give her a name to stalk. It might be slightly insensitive though to ask. Though I suppose it is really insensitive that Ranka didn't try to be there for Gilliam's funeral, in retrospect, given he pretty much died trying to protect her, even if he may have only seen Alto.
that's just it, her showing an interest in at least finding out Gilliam's name would have shown that she was at least thankful, but instead she didn't even try.
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Old 2010-11-02, 20:35   Link #340
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Originally Posted by Lancel View Post
That's true, but I dunno, I mean I work at a workplace with about a hundred people and I can't say I know most of them. That said if someone asked me "Who did X?" I could probably find that out through various records. That seemed the gist of what Ranka was getting at, use his job to find out who that pilot was and give her a name to stalk. It might be slightly insensitive though to ask. Though I suppose it is really insensitive that Ranka didn't try to be there for Gilliam's funeral, in retrospect, given he pretty much died trying to protect her, even if he may have only seen Alto.
I believe Gilliam was trying to protect the whole colony considering the Vajra was in the middle of the city. Also, how could Ranka even attend his funeral if not even Gilliam's own family was notified of it.

I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is about Ranka's reaction. Ranka was yelling and screaming during the chaos because she was in danger just like anyone else would. Yes, she saw a soldier die in an inhumane manner and so did plenty of people and her reaction wasn't one that would make me think she didn't care. It was pretty apparent that she was in a state of shock as well considering her reaction later in episode 2 where she was trembling and speaking as if Alto was Ozma.

Asking for Alto is pretty natural if you ask me, especially if it's the person that saved your life although Gilliam deserves the same amount of thanks.

Calling her insensitive and such at this point is just really nit-picking because of established opinions from later development (just in case I'm misunderstood here, I'm not singling you out here Lancel, just speaking in general.)
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