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View Poll Results: To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 33 33.67%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 29 29.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 17.35%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 7.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 6.12%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.04%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.02%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 3.06%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-11-03, 07:52   Link #181
Sleep_ping
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Any of you guys wondering whether Ikebukuro sold those pens to the nuns?

Well, here's the novel text, so you guys go ahead and discuss this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Part 1
Tatemiya looks up, and in an instant, the second-level window of the "Baptism Chapel" explodes, as a firestorm erupts from inside. Next, a Roman Catholic nun is shot out like a cannonball. When she lands, she barely tries to let the joints in her legs withstand the impact, but it seems that she can’t withstand it anymore, as she collapses again and loses consciousness.

Stiyl Magnus, who’s wielding a flame sword, is standing at the window…

He says,

“In some situations, that child is much stronger when she fights on her own. We’ll weaken her fighting capabilities if we go near her. You probably don’t want to become like those people, huh?”

“What?”

Tatemiya is intrigued. At this moment…

BOOM! There’s an explosion around Index.

Index reappears, having been surrounded by tens, maybe more than a hundred nuns all around; in other words, a section of the perimeter is blown away. In that thick perimeter, a corner has been blown off by some unknown force, causing the perimeter to form a "C" shape. About ten nuns experienced the impact directly, and one of them even lands at Tatemiya’s feet, several meters away. Seeing their comrade flying over their heads, the nuns fighting against Tatemiya turn to look at Index.

BOOM! Another huge invisible explosion, and several nuns are sent into the air.

“…What’s going on?”

Tatemiya looks at the nun at his feet. Her face is full of despair, and her body curls up like a baby, her arms holding her head. Although she lost consciousness, she seems to be having a nightmare, as she’s still trembling. Not only that, the muscles on the nun’s legs are torn. That phenomenon wasn’t actually an explosion, but the nun jumped back. As if her survival and defensive instincts had gone haywire, she even did the extreme by doing something that far exceeds her physical capabilities in order to get away from Index.

Stiyl jumps down from the second level, and lands beside Tatemiya.

“You’re also a Christian, and you should know that there are weaknesses or conflicting concepts in several Christian teachings. Many different Christian sects exist in order to patch up these weaknesses and conflicting concepts, but they create their own in the process; this is a so-called religious characteristic.”

“…So what?”

Tatemiya gently swings his longsword, restricting the nuns’ movements.

“That child has the knowledge of the entire world. With the knowledge of 103,000 magic books, she can make sharp criticism in the ‘conflicts’ that Christianity has- the ‘Sheol Fear’. To Christians, Christianity is like a function, and the paradoxes in its teachings are like holes in a cover, so the ‘Sheol Fear’ is their enemy. Upon hearing this, their personalities will completely dissolve within a short time.”

Of course, this spell is useless against enemies other than Christians. As for magical authors like Aureolus, they had set up a special magical barrier to prevent their minds from being destroyed by their own original magic texts, so this spell is useless to them as well. However, there are very few people in the world who can "write an original magical text and not get their minds broken" like Aureolus.

“The magical books aren’t just to only use spells. Although she has no magical power, she can use the knowledge of the magic books to attack with ‘Spell Intercept’ and ‘Sheol Fear’. There’s likely no one better to be the magical library than her.”

While the nuns are still panicking, Stiyl and Tatemiya unleash a flurry of attacks. Stiyl lets the flame blade explode, blowing the nuns away with a flame storm, followed up by Tatemiya knocking them out swiftly and cleanly. At this moment, Index continues to send the numerous nuns around her flying with her "muttering".

Tatemiya is impressed and stunned. He says,

“Come to think of it, since she’s capable of such an impressive spell, why didn’t she use it in the beginning? Even if it was me, I’ll be devastated if I was hit by that technique.”

“That spell is rather unstable and troublesome. I believe you know that it’s easier to do a religious brainwashing to a group than to an individual. From the Science side point of view, the ‘Sheol Fear’ uses group psychology to break through their own psychological defense.”

Stiyl again lets the flame sword explode, suppressing the nuns. The nuns were trying to find a chance to charge forward, but their faces had been burned by the flames, so they hurry back.

“The ‘purity’ of the group’s psychology affects the effectiveness of the ‘Sheol Fear’. It’s easier to use when ‘the group’s thinking of the same thing’, and much more difficult when it’s ‘a complicated group with many different thoughts’ since that causes the ‘purity’ to drop, which makes it completely useless… In other words, when I was fighting with you, because both Kamijou Touma and I had been present, the group’s ‘purity’ dropped, so she couldn’t use the ‘Sheol Fear’. I was assigned to be her guard because of this possible scenario.”

Stiyl plainly states,

“In other words, if you rush in now, the ‘Sheol Fear’ will be ineffective.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Part 2
From the 103,000 magical texts, she found the parts that are detrimental to a Christian’s mind which creates the "Sheol Fear", and is attacking the Roman Catholic nuns with it. During this situation, an accident happens. One of the nuns, Sister Lucia, the one who attacked Kamijou in the theme park, suddenly shouts,

“Heavy attack! Light defense! Sacrifice yourselves! Destroy the enemy of God!”

In an instant, the nuns completely freeze.

Their faces silently and gradually become expressionless, and like a military salute, they neatly pull out two things from their clothes. Each of their hands is holding a rather high-class fountain pen.

…?

At this moment, Index is thinking that they're planning to use some magic to fire an attack at her.

But she is wrong.

The next instant…

Almost a hundred nuns surrounding Index insert the pens into their ears without hesitation.

The squishy sound resembles a person squeezing grapes.

Bright red blood spurts out from their ears.

At the same time, they pull the pens that were inserted deeply into their ears out, and then proceed to raise their weapons.

Although their expressions are distorted due to pain, they’re smiling bitterly like they just destroyed their desires. There’s something white on the blood-covered pens: their eardrums.

Index strongly feels that she’s going to vomit any moment.

“Don’t tell me… it’s to block out the ‘Sheol Fear’…?”

If they’re unable to hear anything, the "Sheol Fear" cannot work.

Index realizes this chilling fact as the nuns advance together.
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Old 2010-11-03, 08:34   Link #182
Joe_fh
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Just a though, but isn't posting this against the rules? Not that I mind at all (actually I'm interested since I haven't read it thus I can't compare) but just to be on the safe side. You might be better off putting it into a spoiler tag for "Light Novel" or something

And after reading that, if the scene was presented in the anime in that way I would have loved it a lot more.
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Old 2010-11-03, 09:42   Link #183
Sleep_ping
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Well, technically, it's not a spoiler since the episode's over. Since you guys were debating about this, I thought I should add fuel to the fire.
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Old 2010-11-03, 15:25   Link #184
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Spoiler for Long response to a drawn-out argument:
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Old 2010-11-03, 16:32   Link #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh_Ping View Post
Well, technically, it's not a spoiler since the episode's over. Since you guys were debating about this, I thought I should add fuel to the fire.
Well the pens being taken out and showing that they completely removed their eardrums is sorta like a spoiler for the next episode

Quote:
At the same time, they pull the pens that were inserted deeply into their ears out, and then proceed to raise their weapons.

Although their expressions are distorted due to pain, they’re smiling bitterly like they just destroyed their desires. There’s something white on the blood-covered pens: their eardrums.

Index strongly feels that she’s going to vomit any moment.

“Don’t tell me… it’s to block out the ‘Sheol Fear’…?”

If they’re unable to hear anything, the "Sheol Fear" cannot work.

Index realizes this chilling fact as the nuns advance together.
Their eardrums now? That is just too crazy...
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Old 2010-11-03, 17:03   Link #186
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Some of the complaints in this episode are ridicules. If someone wants to over analyze something and then complain about it then they should at least pay attention and analyze every scene and not just the ones they THINK contains a mistake.

The entire discussion on how index was not that far from the nuns on the roof and how her voice could have reached her, was answered when index first starts to sing.

She obviously has to only reach people of a particular mindset. IF the nuns on the roof could hear her then so could her allies. Thats why Sty had the A.C fall back because it would lower her power.....
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Old 2010-11-03, 17:37   Link #187
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Old 2010-11-03, 18:13   Link #188
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Sigh...

What were people expecting anyways, not even me who wanted to see the second season even pop out so much doesn't have much to expect.

Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...
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Old 2010-11-03, 18:22   Link #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Well the pens being taken out and showing that they completely removed their eardrums is sorta like a spoiler for the next episode
Their eardrums now? That is just too crazy...
That would indeed be a spoiler...if they even show it. It made me cringe. I was wondering why they used pens, figured they just wanted to block the sound out but going for the ear drums themselves...*shudder*
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Old 2010-11-03, 18:31   Link #190
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Well apparently no one really understood the point of my really long post - it was exactly that - showing that over-analysing a situation that's not meant to be even analysed at all but taken the way it is is seriously redundant.

You can pretty much find holes in every scene especially ones in which the most logical thing didn't happen but rather something completely different happened - it's because the author chose to do it that way and it served a purpose.
My only complaint was that compared to everything we saw in Index s1 this was bit exaggerated due to the obvious lack of pain which as pointed out above is present in the LN. And it wasn't really a major complaint or anything just to note it could have been made better.

Though in the end it seems everyone are left with the wrong impression and I didn't get through to anyone with what I was trying to point out.

@Ice Block: I'll take a look at your response later since I don't have the time right now.
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Old 2010-11-03, 19:12   Link #191
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I actually like the overanalysis of things in Index. Seeing detailed debates on this kind of stuff is interesting, even if I can't understand half of it.
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Old 2010-11-03, 23:27   Link #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...
If you mean just the words, I think that was from one of the old martial-arts movies...

If you mean "everyone relax already, it's just a show", then allow me to direct you to tvtrope page MST3K Mantra.
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Old 2010-11-04, 10:08   Link #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Assassin View Post
Sigh...

What were people expecting anyways, not even me who wanted to see the second season even pop out so much doesn't have much to expect.

Am I wrong in my "Don't think, feel" approach? Because I feel things start to not make sense when people start thinking about them.

No offense though. Just... anyone heard of that phrase? The "Don't think, feel" thing? And by the way I'm looking at this episode's progress on discussions, this is getting so dragged out in my opinion, and I don't feel such discussions like what I've seen up to now that necessary. Sorry if you think they do, but that's what I feel though...
Not at all.....seeing that I also watch my anime and read my novels like this....what do you expect of someone who just wants some entertainment to unwind?
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Old 2010-11-06, 04:14   Link #194
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@Ice Block: I read your post and basically you pretty much have the same holes in your arguments as before. Since you missed my point entirely (and it seems everyone else also kind of did) I doubt there's any reason to reply, though if you want me to, I well.
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Old 2010-11-07, 19:07   Link #195
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What the crap am I watching?

What happened to the To Aru Majutsu no Index from the first season?

It's like they decided to amp up all the fight scenes and make it darker and edgier with more awesome magic - then did such a poor execution of the idea that the result is just awful.

Even granting Nuns are Mikos, and ignoring the horribly mixed up and offensive depiction of Catholics (and I'm not a Catholic), it's still a horrible show.

The army of nuns that were competent just one episode ago are now just faceless mooks to be mowed down to show how awesome the heroes are. They can't even seem to stay consistent on the use of lethal or non-lethal force.

I mean- in one scene they depict lethal weapons being used non-lethally which is pretty common for this sort of show- and then next scene a nun takes a fireball to the face and is pretty much dead or horribly disfigured- but then the atmosphere is still played in the light-hearted hero romp that only plays well when the heroes don't actually have to kill anybody. (Or if we've already had an atmosphere from the beginning of using lethal force).

Like Touma wouldn't be traumatized by all the killing? That just doesn't match with his personality of characterization at all. He might accept it as necessary, but he would certainly be deeply troubled by it. That's the atmosphere you need for lethal force. A sense of desperation on the part of the heroes, a sense that they are being forced into killing, and that this is painful to them.

Instead we get typical "no one dies" atmosphere while nuns are getting burnt to a crisp in a curb stomp battle.

I don't think this is a problem with the adaption. It's a problem with the source material. It went away from the formula that works: Touma confronting the villian who only has a handful of mooks at hand and the Touma pulling off a win through guts and his anti-magic hand.

I'm not saying that the formula didn't need some new development. But this is just lame. Why not have Touma start calling members of the "Touma faction" to help when he's over matched like this. That would be far far more interesting.

I mean, come on Touma. If you're up against 250 mooks and need non-lethal crowd control, who are you gonna call? Not flamethrower man. That's a job for BriBri (if only he had gotten her phone number in that first episode).

And that doesn't even get into the "our ally is actually the villain" plot twist which was not set up right! Why was Orsola tied up if the Amakusa where actually helping her? Why did she flee from them and they they had to kidnap her back?

It is not adequately explained! (This might be the fault of the adaptation)

It's got plot holes big enough for a buffalo to run through.

I seriously hope this is not the plan for the whole second season. If so I might just drop this season.

Ugh... and the talking, and the talking needed to explain the awesomeness of the spell Index was using. Lameness!!! As bad as shounen action shows like DBZ! Just say that her spell is forcing the enemy to face the contradictions between their ideals and their actions against Orsola. Simple. Short. Still awesome! And then we don't need to get the further lameness of explaining why Index didn't just whip this spell out before.

The only good scene this episode was the one when Touma walks in and you think he's going to fight alone against a group too big for him to beat, all for this woman he barely knows, simply because it's the right thing to do.
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Old 2010-11-07, 20:00   Link #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
The army of nuns that were competent just one episode ago are now just faceless mooks to be mowed down to show how awesome the heroes are. They can't even seem to stay consistent on the use of lethal or non-lethal force.
this is a problem of the anime

Quote:
I mean- in one scene they depict lethal weapons being used non-lethally which is pretty common for this sort of show
it's actually a plot point that they don't kill anyone. Well, the amakusa don't kill because it's their policy(thanks to Kanzaki), but Stiyl specifically didn't kill anyone because killing would have been worse for them than just knocking them out, as seeing their comrades die would just get the other nuns to fight harder and with greater ferocity...

Quote:
Like Touma wouldn't be traumatized by all the killing? That just doesn't match with his personality of characterization at all. He might accept it as necessary, but he would certainly be deeply troubled by it. That's the atmosphere you need for lethal force. A sense of desperation on the part of the heroes, a sense that they are being forced into killing, and that this is painful to them.
Except they are purposely not killing anyone. Though imo, the "no one dies whenever Touma is involved" is one of the problems of the novels...

Quote:
I don't think this is a problem with the adaption.
No, it is a problem with the adaptation. Read the novel for a comparison...

Quote:
I'm not saying that the formula didn't need some new development. But this is just lame. Why not have Touma start calling members of the "Touma faction" to help when he's over matched like this. That would be far far more interesting.
eh.

Quote:
I mean, come on Touma. If you're up against 250 mooks and need non-lethal crowd control, who are you gonna call? Not flamethrower man. That's a job for BriBri (if only he had gotten her phone number in that first episode).
Kanzaki, actually. But again, it was a plot point that she doesn't directly get involved...Touma was just being himself there, going in alone...

Quote:
Why was Orsola tied up if the Amakusa where actually helping her? Why did she flee from them and they they had to kidnap her back?
Because she started to think the Amakusa were actually helping her to get something in return. They tied her up for the same reason

Quote:
It's got plot holes big enough for a buffalo to run through.
Not that big, but i agree this arc was one of the "weakest", both in terms of content and execution

Quote:
I seriously hope this is not the plan for the whole second season. If so I might just drop this season.
There's going to be another arc similar to this(though MUCH better)

Quote:
Ugh... and the talking, and the talking needed to explain the awesomeness of the spell Index was using.
She's not using a spell, actually...

Quote:
Just say that her spell is forcing the enemy to face the contradictions between their ideals and their actions against Orsola. Simple. Short. Still awesome! And then we don't need to get the further lameness of explaining why Index didn't just whip this spell out before.
This skill forces the enemy to face the contraddictions of Christianity, nothing to do with their actions. And it was explained that it works much better against large groups who share the same belief, and wouldn't be much useful otherwise...
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Old 2010-11-07, 20:14   Link #197
SuzushinaYuriko
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It's been explained before that Stiyl did not actually burn any nuns to death but created shockwaves with his magic to blast them away nonlethally. If he had killed any nuns, the other ones would have gone berserk, possibly suicide attacking, which would have worsened their situation. None of the nuns died, although some did go comatose. Remember, the clothing of the nuns are most probably enhanced with magic like Index's at the start of the first season to defend them from attacks.

You have to take in mind that before, the nuns had an advantage in which they were attacking a place the Amakusa had to guard, as well as the Amakusa also searching for Orsola at the same time. This time, the Agnese Forces have to guard their own home turf. I do agree that it is J.C.Staff's fault that they made the nuns look so incompetent though. They could have at least shown the Amakusa resorting to espionage tactics in order to fight instead of having Itsuwa take out 10 nuns in one attack.

And I will reiterate the author's words again, THERE IS NO REASON TO FOR MIKOTO TO APPEAR WHEN MAGIC TAKES HOLD OF THE STORY. How is over a billion volt electricity and railguns safer than shockwaves from fire magic? I'd say that's actually more dangerous, since Mikoto doesn't exactly pay close attention to her surroundings when she uses her powers and charges stubbornly in headfirst without grasping a hold of the situation, whereas Stiyl exhibits more control, analyzes the situation, and acts accordingly.

And besides, aren't Index, Stiyl, and the Amakusa Catholics part of the "Touma faction"?

Orsola was probably tied up because she changed her mind and the Amakusa Catholics knew that it wasn't safe for her to go rushing out there where the Roman Catholics have a higher chance of catching her.

Sheol Fear isn't a spell, it's a pointing out of contradictions in their very beliefs in Christianity. The explanations are what makes Index interesting, and if the explanation for Sheol Feor wasn't included, there would be a lot more people complaining about why it wasn't featured in the anime before.

This is easily the weakest arc of the second season. Don't worry, it's gonna become much better later on, especially at the end. I'd recommend you check out the light novels, since they are really good and provide more details that the anime will skip.
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