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Old 2010-11-09, 20:16   Link #121
Hooves
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Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist View Post
Yeah, but there's a major difference between separating your social circles and bashing the unpopular one in the company of the popular one just to maintain your standing in the latter. It makes Kirino look like a hypocritical, selfish bitch or just a plain old idiot for wanting to so desperately please and hang out with such shallow, superficial creatures in the first place.

I mean, seriously. Her "best friend" Ayase goes all bunny boiler batsh*t insane after finding out Kirino's an otaku and drops her like a hot potato. Compare and contrast this with Saori calling her house so that she and Kuroneko could find out how she was doing in spite of the object of the concern having publicly denied knowing "weirdos" like them.

If anything, I would've loved to have had the scene in the park end with Kirono bitchslapping Ayase for being so judgemental and then called up Saori and Kuroneko to apologize.
Well, Ayase has been Kirino's friend for quite a long time, so it would be hard to separate yourself from that. But it would be a little better if Kirino just went with her otaku friends, it would make her life so much easier.. But then theirs Ayase's yandere side
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Old 2010-11-09, 20:20   Link #122
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Well, Ayase has been Kirino's friend for quite a long time, so it would be hard to separate yourself from that. But it would be a little better if Kirino just went with her otaku friends, it would make her life so much easier.. But then theirs Ayase's yandere side
I'm not saying it wouldn't be difficult. I'm just saying that the incident should've shown her who her true friends were. But, of course, she totally didn't get it.
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Old 2010-11-09, 20:25   Link #123
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Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist View Post
I'm not saying it wouldn't be difficult. I'm just saying that the incident should've shown her who her true friends were. But, of course, she totally didn't get it.
Well.. She did say that she wanted to keep both her life as a model, and her life as an otaku at the same time, losing Ayase is like chipping off a huge part of your modeling life just like that. That would mean that Kirino is going to eventually lose her non-otaku self, and feel really out of it like she did in episode 3, where her father wanted her to get rid of all those otaku games that she had, and quit with the anime hobby all at once.

Since she told Kyousuke that she wanted to keep both her life as a model, and her life as an otaku. She wants to sorta balance them out, and never go ahead of one of the other, so losing Ayase, her best friend, and the person who understands her modeling side the most. Especially since Ayase has been Kirino's friend since Kyousuke was alienating Kirino from his life... Its sorta hard to just accept the fact that she just denied everything, she tried to get Ayase to "understand" her side atleast. But that wasn't enough, so Kyousuke just had to take all the blame for it yet again... So Kirino can maintain her life as a model, and her life as an otaku.

So of course she wouldn't understand. But it could lead to drama between Kirino and her otaku-side now after episode 5, where Kuroneko might start thinking too much of what Kirino said against Otakus.
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Old 2010-11-09, 23:06   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Kirino might pull something to make sure this does not happen again.
Well...
Spoiler for novel spoilers:


The thing to remember is that Kirino is exceedingly selfish. Now that she's got Kyousuke indulging her she doesn't want to lose that. As far as she's concerned, his entire life should be about making her happy and nothing else. At the rate Kyousuke keeps getting ostrasized by others, it might not be long before Kirino is the only person who'll pay him any mind.

... Just as planned?

About the Ayase incident, yeah, I'd say Kirino just wants to keep both sides of her life. As she said before, if she lost one side, she wouldn't be herself anymore. Of course she (often) goes a bit too far. She didn't have to call Kuroneko and Saori disgusting. She could have just said she didn't know them.

While I can agree with the belief that true friends would accept any sort of crazy hobby you might have, to Ayase's credit she wanted to accept it so they could still be friends, but her misconceptions made it hard for her to do so which is why she was so conflicted about it.

So yeah, Kirino is super selfish but hey, she is a 14 year old girl. It's to be expected
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Old 2010-11-10, 00:30   Link #125
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The thing to remember is that Kirino is exceedingly selfish. Now that she's got Kyousuke indulging her she doesn't want to lose that. As far as she's concerned, his entire life should be about making her happy and nothing else. At the rate Kyousuke keeps getting ostrasized by others, it might not be long before Kirino is the only person who'll pay him any mind.
Yeah, but Kirino doesn't want "life counseling". She wants a damn scapegoat. Honestly, I seriously hope Kyousuke's cup runs over at some point and he lets her take a hard fall, because she's sure as hell not learning anything from the way things are going now...except for how to pass the buck. She can't even deal with her own sense of self-loathing.

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While I can agree with the belief that true friends would accept any sort of crazy hobby you might have, to Ayase's credit she wanted to accept it so they could still be friends, but her misconceptions made it hard for her to do so which is why she was so conflicted about it.
Maybe this was true in the light novels, but in the anime, Ayane essentially gave her an ultimatum and went completely yandare on her ass. She demanded the truth and couldn't handle it. There was no effort to understand, no compromise, no meeting Kirino halfway. It was her way or the highway. This being the case, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to give her credit on.

The whole setup hits too close to home to me. I once had a Kirino "little sister" type relationship with a former female friend of mine. It started out like this, but, over the years, it got incredibly psychologically and emotionally abusive. I was essentially the "go-to guy" when it came to discussing problems and helping her deal with major life issues, but got no benefits out of it. Everyone else around her would profit - she most of all - but it was to my own detriment. I ended up cutting her loose when it became clear that she was building herself up by tearing me down and trying to turn me into as big of a basketcase as her.

Sorry, but I'm not cutting Kirino any slack. She may be having her cake and eating it too right now, but I honest to god hope she ends up choking on it.
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Old 2010-11-10, 00:54   Link #126
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Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist View Post
Maybe this was true in the light novels, but in the anime, Ayane essentially gave her an ultimatum and went completely yandare on her ass. She demanded the truth and couldn't handle it. There was no effort to understand, no compromise, no meeting Kirino halfway. It was her way or the highway. This being the case, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to give her credit on.
At first, yeah, but I was more refering to the scene in the park, with Ayase crying and saying how she wanted to make up but couldn't. But yeah, there was that "If you were really my friend you'd give up your hobby for me" logic in there.

But again, they're 14 year old girls who are in a certain stage in their life so they're going to be pretty self centered. I'll cut them a tiny bit of slack for that. Hopefully they'll grow out of it.

But for now at least they're delicious looking jail bait *cough*
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Old 2010-11-10, 13:33   Link #127
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If anything, I would've loved to have had the scene in the park end with Kirono bitchslapping Ayase for being so judgemental and then called up Saori and Kuroneko to apologize.
Yes, that would've been fine
Ayase could certainly do with a healthy amount of bitch slapping
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Old 2010-11-10, 15:12   Link #128
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Everyone in this series could use with some maturation, but that's part of what makes everyone so fun to watch, to varying degrees. I'm looking forward to Ayase-Kirino-Kyousuke scenes to see how the three of them interact at the same time.
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Old 2010-11-10, 17:31   Link #129
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In some ways Kirino feels like a lesser version of the girl in "Onii-chan Control"
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Old 2010-11-14, 13:47   Link #130
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Very doubtful - most likely no coincidence, but a carefully chosen game.

I'm not so sure if he looked up that report because he cared still a bit about Kyousuke. It could just very well be that he looked it up just out of curiosity, then found out that it's actually quite half-assed, and therefore re-adjusted his opinion about Kyousuke somewhat and decided to help him a bit.
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That's just an unfounded claim by the father which is based on his prejudice, which in turn is based on biased, poorly written sensationalist articles in the yellow press, like that "Sycalypse incident" article.
The claim is totally wrong because anime and eroge have no bad influence whatsoever on Kirino - she's great at school, a good athlete etc.
The answer is simple: both Ayase and Mr. Kurama are brainwashed media zombies. They're of the notion that the media is infallible and what's being reported is completed fair, unbalanced, and unbiased. You can see this by how they simply parrot what they've heard by saying stuff like "the news says this is so, so it's so" and that's their entire justification for it. My mother's like this and so are a lot of other people. There's no independent thought involved in this at all. If either one of them had said, "I find the idea of incest revolting and so I don't like this stuff" that would at least involve forming an opinion based on personal analysis of the facts. There's none of that here. Hell, Mr. Kuruma's helping Kyousuke out is only because he happened to know the journalist involved and the latter had publicly admitted he'd screwed up. That's less helping and more setting the record straight.
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Old 2010-11-14, 17:49   Link #131
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Originally Posted by Lunar Archivist View Post
The answer is simple: both Ayase and Mr. Kurama are brainwashed media zombies. They're of the notion that the media is infallible and what's being reported is completed fair, unbalanced, and unbiased. You can see this by how they simply parrot what they've heard by saying stuff like "the news says this is so, so it's so" and that's their entire justification for it.
You're hitting the nail on the head there.

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My mother's like this and so are a lot of other people. There's no independent thought involved in this at all.
Not just your mother... and yes, there certainly are a lot of people like that

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If either one of them had said, "I find the idea of incest revolting and so I don't like this stuff" that would at least involve forming an opinion based on personal analysis of the facts. There's none of that here. Hell, Mr. Kuruma's helping Kyousuke out is only because he happened to know the journalist involved and the latter had publicly admitted he'd screwed up. That's less helping and more setting the record straight.
Yes, it's not that much of helping out. Hadn't he known the journalist, and hadn't the journalist apologised publicly that he wrote garbage, nothing would've come from it - the father would've never known of it, as he most likely wouldn't have looked into it much.
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Old 2010-11-14, 18:37   Link #132
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This has never been said in the anime, but their dad is a police officer. It's kind of his duty to know about criminal activity and what may have influenced them.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:15   Link #133
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This has never been said in the anime, but their dad is a police officer. It's kind of his duty to know about criminal activity and what may have influenced them.
I see... that certainly contributes to him being so overly strict.
Still, you'd expect better from a police officer than to be a media zombie
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:27   Link #134
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Ive taken some things said here and tried to make some sense out of Kirino and predict possible future developments. First, it is becoming clear to me that Kirino is actually two characters meshed together:

There is Kirino #1:
- she is popular
- she has good friends (and a bff that made my goggles go into emergency shutdown)
- she is a honor student so she must be either very gifted or very hard studying
- she works as model to earn her own cash so she is independent
- she is accepted by society in general, giving her high self esteem

And there is Kirino #2
- she is isolated in her room, hiding her life
- she even has problems talking to likeminded people
- she found a goth loli bff (that made my goggles go into emergency shutdown)
- she writes fanfiction, watches anime and reads manga
- she acts bossy, a sure sign of low self esteem

These two personalitys also seem to differ in sexuality. Kirino #1 is pretty much "dating" her own brother although i cant imagine such a girl in real life, she would be swarmed by friends and suitable boyfriends. Kirino #2 is pretty lewd towards girls (or little sisters for that matter), to such an extend that the recent episode impliing her "enjoying" eroge even while her friends are waiting in the living room.

These two personalities are on opposite ends of the social axis with seemingly no common trait at all. This issue hits the fan when Kirino #1's bff Ayase finds out about Kirino#2, leading to almost seperation and a delicious makeup scene with lots of yu... ehr where was i? Right. My point. While the first episodes etablished her life without much trouble dispite living two lifes, the recent ones portrait her much more torn, throwing her mind out of balance and into the realm of constantly beeing pissed off, and some of us starting to wonder where she gets the additional 24h per day necessary to do all that stuff.
So who or what did this to her? The catalyst to start a violent reaction between her two personalities seems to be her brother, because she first showed signs of trouble when he discovered her secret.

This is the point the theories differ. Is the brother a secret love interest? Is she a closet lolicon lesbian? Both discoveries would screw up her life in the way portraited. And while spoilerz (or trolls?) hint towards the incest theory, we can't rule out that the anime may go diffent ways, giving us a delicious scene with Kirino and Kuroneko doing... brb.

Phhuu... okay back. Theories. Right. At this point i can't prove either (although i allready pointed out several flags towards Kuroneko), becauso Kirino's life is as unconclusive as it gets. So we have to look at the other characters for hints of future developments. There is the obvious love interest for Kyuosuke, Manami. She seems to push a possible relationship, be he is opposed to the idea of accepting anyones proposal at this time (see ep6). He has probably realized the pinch he is in. If he accepts Manami, the tension between him and his sister would instantly disappear... in a glorious thermonuclear firestorm. I dont think he would survive Kirinos wrath if the incest theory holds true. Bad End. So this plot will not go anywhere until Kirino either confesses to him or someone elso, giving Kyousuke green light for Manami or someone else.

So who could initiate a confession scenario with Kirino. Since she is allready kinda dating her brother, or torturing, opinions on that differ. But as i pointed out, he will not accept a confession right now (ep6). There needs to be an event that changes that, but it has not happened yet.

The next strong contender for a confession scene is Kuroneko. She and Kirino seem to be in a contest of out-hating each other, but previous eps prove that both consider each other close. And i think we agree that hate can swing 180 into love in a matter of seconds. All it takes is a short but violent physical outburst of fake-hate, and things go like kick-punch-tackle-bite-stare-blush-kiss. We remember Nanoha. Without the kiss. Damnit why didnt they show Nanoha and Fate kissing yet? They are like... ehrm. Anyway. Kuroneko could pull it off. But what would be the fallout of that? Well i can think of Ayase dumping Kirino for good this time. An Otako as bff is difficult to accept for her, but now Kirino playing for the other team too? And she didnt choose her? Too much to handle for Ayase. Kirino dies a horrible death. Bad End.

Since i have run out of possible love interests and scenarios, lets review. Kyousuke doesnt want anyone right now and is held in check by Kirino anyway. Kirino is shizophren and either wants her brother or a virtual loli. Since she cant have her brother (he wouldnt accept right now), she is stuck, too. All other characters can't do much to solve this either. And since Kirino is in a downwards spirale towards pissing off everyone, the whole show has put intself into check mate.
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Old 2010-11-15, 15:08   Link #135
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That's all very well thought-out, I must admit. The show has a decided lack of male characters, the only ones other than Kyousuke that I remember being: Kyousuke's friend who talked about Minami (ep. 6), Kyousuke and Kirino's father, and the video game guy that Kuroneko beat for the CD (ep. 4?). So this harem-style show basically says "incestulicious" or "yuriliciuos" for Kirino. Of course, with the way they're showing Kirino to basically be crazy-insane-psycho-bitch, maybe they'll introduce a professional counselor arc where she falls for the sexy older doctor.
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Old 2010-11-15, 16:58   Link #136
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So this harem-style show basically says "incestulicious" or "yuriliciuos" for Kirino
Yes pelase. Either is fine, I'm not picky <3

Quote:
Of course, with the way they're showing Kirino to basically be crazy-insane-psycho-bitch
Waitwaitwait you sure you've got the right character? Ayase's the batshit insane yandere ^^; Kirino's just got some... issues. But a very sweet fragile girl deep down. No really.

While I agree that it seems Kyousuke isn't really looking for a relationship at this point in time, you have to consider his interactions with the other characters to determine his subconcious views of them.

Manami: he didn't (eventually) have a problem SLEEPING next to her. With no subtext whatsoever. As platonic as you can get. Manami of course feels differently but can't be helped.

Ayase: I simply won't go there.

Kuroneko: spoilers aside, the way he acts around her is more of a concerned big brother at the moment I believe (oh the irony). He's concerned about her as he's concerned about Kirino, and is anxious to ensure that they remain good friends. She for her part doesn't really seems to have an interest in him as of yet.

Kirino: weeell. She's rained down enough hints to irrigate a few farms but Kyousuke is either oblivious or doesn't want to see it. Even if he does have any latent feelings for her it's probably caught up in his "big brotherly" affections. However the way the anime is progressing this route has the most potential I believe.

Now I may be going out on a limb here, but i believe the reason for Kirino's (and possibly Kyousuke's) feelings are because the Westermarck effect didn't kick in properly. Sure they were living together, but they hardly interacted which I believe may have resulted in may have resulted in insufficient stimuli for reverse sexual imprinting.

Or maybe it's just that Freud was right. He's often right. Smart guy. Damn him. Hallelujah
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Old 2010-11-15, 17:23   Link #137
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(Episode 1) Not much happened in this episode for their relationship, except for Kyousuke finding out about her Otaku games, and finally realize that she will need life counseling in order to finally get on good terms with Kirino from the past.

(Episode 2) Got Kirino to enjoy the friendship of Otaku friends, instead of her idol friends that she always hanged out with. This is a definite increase to their relationship.

(Episode 3) Now this was a big step in their relationship. The way Kyousuke stood up for Kirino and her little sisters finally made Kirino acknowledge Kyousuke as her brother, instead of some random guy that she just annoys. Kyousuke finally realized that the dream of her in episode 1 is coming true in an awkward way, this episode was a big step for both of them

(Episode 4) Uhhh...... Not much development on their relationship here.

(Episode 5) Besides Ayase.....Kyousuke once again stands up for Kirino, taking all the blows that the person will give to him. Leaving Kirino to think that she can trust him even more, but finally she takes a big step for her character development, instead of letting Kyousuke take all the things to himself. She finally stood up and confronted her best friend, but the attempt was a failure... Leaving Kyousuke to take the full blame once again. But Kirino at the end of this episode finally smiled "specifically" to Kyousuke, which improves their relationship even more, but just on Kirino's side, Kyousuke just probably thought it was another drag.

(Episode 6) Now this was an important detailic episode on what Kirino is like when she is without Kyousuke around. She has finally clinged to Kyousuke so much, that things are just not that interesting without him (the constant kicking...) At first she seemed to be able to take it, but later on she just couldn't bare the separation anymore, and went all out on the poor door Explains how far Kirino clings to Kyousuke now.

(Episode 7) Now this episode was a "BIG" improvement for both of them. The fact that Kirino easily accepted Kyousuke looking up porn on her laptop, means that she can easily forgive him for even the most unforgivable things (even if she plays eroge). Her expression finally does not show that "Jeez your annoying" and more like "" especially with the fact that Kirino wanted Kyousuke to buy her a gift, and that blush when she said those exact lines about buying something for a loved one. (We could easily tell what that blush and turn away was for) Kyousuke got a big glimpse on what its like in Kirino's world of writing novels, and gets the big hit when Kirino acted that scene out with the random water bucket coming out of nowhere. Also that Anime watching convention between Kirino and Kuroneko, Kyousuke is finally understanding more of the Otaku world.
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Old 2010-11-29, 15:17   Link #138
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Someone should record her antics and make a comparison with eroge character at whom she was complaying so much.

They are indentical! Even expressions are the same!
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Old 2010-11-29, 16:06   Link #139
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Spoiler for snip:
And we have Ep.9



Kirino blushing just from seeing Kyousuke :P
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Old 2010-11-29, 17:44   Link #140
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Kirino is now becoming Rinko and developing her dere side for Kyousuke
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