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Old 2010-11-11, 03:33   Link #1861
Paladinoras
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At any rate, I just want to see the new goddamn SEED movie. I don't wanna beat a dead horse and say how bad Destiny is, for what's worth, I enjoyed it, and I doubt anyone here can honestly say they won't see a new SEED movie.
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Old 2010-11-11, 05:04   Link #1862
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^ Like I said earlier, I really doubt that they would revive the CE universe. Mainly because if they really wanted to they really don't have to wait for Fukuda and Morosawa, they could just do it without them. Personally I find the Seed universe much more interesting when its not handled by them.

I say they really missed the ball on this one and we're not going to see another Seed related big release unless they they pull a Wing and release some side material. If the side material is popular enough they can gain momentum and seize the chance and release a Seed movie. Now it's just kind of poof away, all the hype is on the new 00 movie and the Unicorn OVAs. I really doubt the next Sunrise project would be a CE one too....

EDIT: Also as much as I consider the CE universe the second most fleshed out Gundam Universe (first UC, then CE, then AD) it really isn't that different from UC. I can understand that Bandai/Sunrise would like to keep UC around because of it's super-rich history, but CE's history is basically just a copy paste with modern updates. It doesn't differentiate itself enough with UC, so I really find it useless to support both universes when they're so similar. I personally think it might make a lot more sense to support something like AD which throws the Gundam franchise at a completely new direction (gundam unite earth, aliens, trans-am, magic dust, etc), but you still keep UC so we never have to say good bye to traditional Gundam. But then we also have to consider how popular Seed is in Japan, I keep hearing it's REALLY popular amongst the fujoshi crowd...but...pretty boys can always be replaced.
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Old 2010-11-11, 06:52   Link #1863
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I have to disagree. CE is not as much about the setting as it is about the characters. It's the characters that appealed and made it popular (that's why Destiny was never able to just discard the old cast for a new one like UC can), and making popular characters that last for a decade on Newtype polls just isn't easy, as Mizushima/Kuroda found out.

And because of that, they really can't just discard Morosawa. She knows her characters best after all.

So if Fukuda & Morosawa are both healthy and haven't frustrated Bandai enough due to wasted time yet, I don't see why they wouldn't finish the movie.
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Old 2010-11-11, 08:24   Link #1864
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^ This is also something I don't understand. What makes the Seed characters so great that they're so popular for that many years? None of them have any real form of development. Kira seems to have some kind of development, but his transformation was so unbelievable and ridiculous. He starts off as a reluctant hero that makes a few mistakes because he's stressed, an evil girl using him for her purposes. All of that is good until he miraculously survives and is found by Lacus. Then he just receives an unbelievable shift in character and became the pacifist Kira Yamato. It's fine to be a pacifist, but the way he is portrayed is ridiculous. He just flies in a battlefield and shoots everyone down, which is just unbelievable seeing as how he just becomes the strongest human being in the world within a few episodes. Then he gets that coincidental revelation as the Ultimate Coordinator, babbles at Rau, and then ends with "why are we here?" as the closing of the show. I have to say the last episode was actually very well directed and I felt all the emotions, but I really don't see how his character evolved properly from step A to B it just felt so chunky and unreal. Lacus is even more horrible, she was a 15 year old popstar that gained an unbelievable amount of political and military support (her dad was a politician but that doesn't give her the excuse to get all that military power, enough to change the tide of the war), and now she's the Chairman of ZAFT. If I lived in the future of the CE universe, and I open the textbook, I'm pretty sure the historians are going to say that Lacus is a manipulating woman very much like the first Empress of China.

I'd say the only one who got a decent and believable character evolution was Athrun. He didn't want to fight his friend, but he truly believed that Coordinators are being treated unfairly. He wanted to fight for his people but not kill his best friend. All that stress builds up and he does it, he regrets and he's in pain. Then his best friend comes back from the dead, they make up and he changes his ideals because he doesn't want to suffer it again.

Alright so things seem pretty okay, they're not the worst but they range from above average to bad. BUT ALL OF THAT, goes down the gutter in Destiny, with nothing that you can retrieve. All flushed away, bye bye. I mean, would they seriously still think Morosawa has a grasp of her characters? And being a large opportunistic company like Sunrise, I don't see why they would wait for Fukuda and Morosawa to cash in on a popular Gundam spin-off. Like you said the fans want the characters, but do they really need Fukuda and Morosawa for that?

I don't know, I guess I always saw Fukuda and Morosawa as the poison of the CE universe and better to be done without. But again, I really don't understand what makes those characters so popular, is it really the fujioshi crowd that's supporting them for 10 years? That's just incredible and I can't seem to wrap my mind around that. I guess it's just as ridiculous as Twilight being popular.

PS: Mizushima really did a horrible job in developing the characters of 00. There are some beautiful scenes here and there, but not enough. But you're right, now that I think about it, 00 does seem to focus on the world more than the characters, and Seed more on the characters than the world.
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Old 2010-11-11, 09:20   Link #1865
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Originally Posted by Sanger Zonvolt View Post
It is brain cancer.
My cynical side tells me that Morosawa's "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Creator Breakdown phase (a la Hideaki Anno in Evangelion and Tomino during V Gundam, and why Stephenie Meyer won't release the fifth Twilight novel).

It's been rumored that Lacus is Morosawa's self-insert Mary Sue, and that she (Morosawa) cosplayed as her (Lacus) in her public appearances at various anime conventions in Japan. Try to picture that in your head.

I think one of the reasons why Destiny tanked was because Sunrise/Fukuda/Morosawa caved in to fan demand.
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Old 2010-11-11, 09:45   Link #1866
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Isn't Morosawa a middle-aged-fat-asian-lady? And...she cosplayed as Lacus?
...oh my god.
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Old 2010-11-11, 19:41   Link #1867
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
My cynical side tells me that Morosawa's "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Creator Breakdown phase (a la Hideaki Anno in Evangelion and Tomino during V Gundam, and why Stephenie Meyer won't release the fifth Twilight novel).
It wasn't brain cancer. That was some Internet joke that became widespread.

She did get diagnosed with cancer after Destiny ended and that was the reason for the movie's delay. But I don't think she ever disclosed the exact form of cancer.

(and for the record, she's always been pretty honest about her health... For example she also revealed that during the production of Seed she was diagnosed with uterine fibroids, and had surgery to remove her uterus and right ovary after the show ended)

Quote:
It's been rumored that Lacus is Morosawa's self-insert Mary Sue, and that she (Morosawa) cosplayed as her (Lacus) in her public appearances at various anime conventions in Japan. Try to picture that in your head.
More crazy fan rumors to justify Destiny's quality. I don't even want to picture that one.

I remember the one where it was reported that the Seed movie was canceled because she died. Its like she's become one of those hated celebrities... Really, leave the lady alone...
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Old 2010-11-11, 19:44   Link #1868
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Yeah, as Mary Sue-ish Lacus was in the SEED saga, her being a self-insert of sorts sounds a bit farfetched.

Now, Fukuda and them caving into demands? I can see that, seeing as how Fukuda wasn't planning on creating Destiny in the first place, having accomplished everything he wanted to do in SEED already.
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Old 2010-11-12, 06:15   Link #1869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
My cynical side tells me that Morosawa's "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Creator Breakdown phase (a la Hideaki Anno in Evangelion and Tomino during V Gundam, and why Stephenie Meyer won't release the fifth Twilight novel).

It's been rumored that Lacus is Morosawa's self-insert Mary Sue, and that she (Morosawa) cosplayed as her (Lacus) in her public appearances at various anime conventions in Japan. Try to picture that in your head.

I think one of the reasons why Destiny tanked was because Sunrise/Fukuda/Morosawa caved in to fan demand.
You take those F*ckers from 2ch waaaaaay to seriously..
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Old 2010-11-12, 10:16   Link #1870
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You take those F*ckers from 2ch waaaaaay to seriously..
I'm not taking them seriously, though those rumors sound hilarious.

As for Shindou, I don't what happened behind-the-scenes, but traditionally, if an actor/seiyu criticizes the creative team/producer/director, then the latter will retaliate by reducing their role even further (at best), or at worst, McLeaning their character (i.e., kill them off).

Of course, Sunrise won't allow Morosawa to kill off Cagalli.
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Old 2010-11-12, 10:21   Link #1871
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But why would a seiyu criticize the staff?? seems so weird...not to mention that Cagalli was one of the major casts so that seiyu of Cagalli should have been quite happy anyway..
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Old 2010-11-12, 10:34   Link #1872
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But why would a seiyu criticize the staff?? seems so weird...not to mention that Cagalli was one of the major casts so that seiyu of Cagalli should have been quite happy anyway..
I'm not too sure about that. I guess it's just as reasonable as an actor criticizing a director? I'm sure seiyuus take their jobs as seriously as a regular actor, and they read the scripts beforehand and practice their lines to bring out the proper emotion from the scene. Maybe all that crap about how Morosawa didn't hand in her scripts on time made it hard for practicing lines? Maybe they dislike the direction their character is taking and is voicing their opinions just like how an actor would probably talk to a director when their character is not portrayed well.
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Old 2010-11-12, 10:42   Link #1873
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Maybe all that crap about how Morosawa didn't hand in her scripts on time made it hard for practicing lines?

That seems to be the most logical reason..didn't think of that ..or it's because how the seiyu got paid...like they will get paid only in the episode they speak (but then the seiyu of Cagalli should be happy because all she needed to say were most "hmm" "ugh" "but", etc )

it's pretty new to me that seiyu will get upset over the script or the direction of the show...I thought only an actor will do that
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Old 2010-11-12, 10:52   Link #1874
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I'm not too sure about that. I guess it's just as reasonable as an actor criticizing a director? I'm sure seiyuus take their jobs as seriously as a regular actor, and they read the scripts beforehand and practice their lines to bring out the proper emotion from the scene. Maybe all that crap about how Morosawa didn't hand in her scripts on time made it hard for practicing lines?
Doesn't really work there... Seiyuus generally don't get the script until late in the production process, by which point everything's already animated... And you can't animate things if your script's not ready.

There was the blog post from Kabashima I believe that said that her scripts were late and it made animating the show difficult, but that's another story.
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Old 2010-11-12, 11:09   Link #1875
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^Don't know then @_@. I guess she's just not satisified with how her character is being portrayed or what direction she's taking? What exactly did she complain about?
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Old 2010-11-12, 11:14   Link #1876
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I can't help wonder "Isn't it sad, Sacchin?", except replace "Sacchin" with "Cagalli", and why Shindou didn't return to reprise her role in the various spinoff Gundam works since Destiny went off the air.

Based on what I read, Cags played a minimal role in the final episodes of Destiny, and she was briefly seen in the closing credits of "Final Plus" and the 4th TV Movie.
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Old 2010-11-14, 12:19   Link #1877
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Cagalli pretty much poofed off the equation by the last parts of the anime. She remained at ORB when she could've been fighting with the rest up in Space. Sure, she's the leader of ORB now, but she could've easily gone to space to follow her brother and lover...err, ex-lover.

By the end of Final Plus, in that final graveyard scene, it was Kira and Lacus, Shinn and Luna, and Athrun and Meyrin. Cagalli was pretty much just written off for Athrun. Darn ironic, considering the OP for the last parts of Destiny showed a half-naked Cagalli staring forlornly at Athrun's back as he walks away from her. Is that supposed to be some kind of graphical representation of Athrun banging her and never calling her back the day after? XD
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Old 2010-11-14, 13:42   Link #1878
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^ I'd take Meyrin over Cagalli any day. Her voice...too manly and coarse for me.
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Old 2010-11-14, 13:49   Link #1879
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The only two confirmed pairing at the end of Destiny are :

Shin and Lunamaria

Kira and Lacus


The relationship between Athrun and Cagalli and Athrun and Meyrin is not solved at the end of Destiny. We don't know who Athrun love, if he loves one of them. Maybe Athrun true love is Kira
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Old 2010-11-14, 14:12   Link #1880
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I thought it was pretty obvious that that it was Athrun X Meyrin at the end...well, since we don't know which one Athrun will officially choose, so audiences are allowed to think anything they want...I guess that's actually a pretty good decision by the staff XD
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