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Old 2010-11-12, 15:56   Link #241
Nikkan
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Join Date: Dec 2008
This is (in my opinion) best show this season~

Spoiler for ep 4:
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Old 2010-11-12, 16:40   Link #242
LC
Shocking Pink
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 19
I guess I'm one of the few that really dislike ShuxTsukimi. Shu seems unable, atm, to see Madeover!Tsukimi and Otaku!Tsukimi as one person. Tsukimi's attraction to Shu seems pretty shallow too. :/ I also sort of dislike the way she is to Kuranosuke some times when he's just being
nice.

Ok! On to the positives! Kuranosuke is <3, and I'm just wishing for a great ending for him, whether it's with Tsukimi or not. Glad this and Arakawa are here this season.
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Old 2010-11-12, 17:39   Link #243
physics223
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Kuragehime - 04: the weight of words (contains pictures to defend my stance, but same post)

One of my notebooks was nearing depletion after about three years of use, and so I decided to write a lengthy write-up with dedication until I filled up the notebook's remaining pages. I decided to write about Kuragehime.

The weight of words

It is nothing funny to lose a loved one at such an early age. Children for the most part are unprepared for it and have difficulty dealing with such loss. The absence will most certainly color their maturity and define their personalities in the future (as what is visible with Tsukimi). There are certain things one should never say to children suffering from the passage of someone dear: in our block on pediatrics one of the most memorable things I've learned is that one never tells a child who's lost a loved one not to cry. It's also no good to lie about the one who died, since children, while being young, are more perceptive than they seem, and lying about who they love will reverberate through their entire lives.

Despite being unprepared, however, these children's perceptiveness must not be ignored. Even at such young ages, children often correctly understand a certain event from the priming cues that event presents. In child psychiatry, it is an absolute no-no to be dishonest with a child upon the death of a loved one. As much as we'd like to believe the contrary, children are not idiots. Honesty is extremely important so that the child can face the truth of the event, although that truth must not be forced upon the child at loss: the child must know the truth, but in his due time and in his own terms. It's no good to shove the truth down his throat.

A costly mistake most parents commit towards their children is lying to them with regard to their (the parent's) condition for 'the sake of the child.' Simple words and statements like this build up a child to have faith in the dishonesty of fantasy, even if the words were said with noble intent. Another mistake is for the parent to tell the child not to grieve: as most of us know, children don't have a mature sense of ideation, and their actions are mostly rooted in the physical world. If a child was told not to grieve by a loving parent, chances are he will follow that command even if it will be to his detriment in the future (how should the child know how about that?). Taken to the extreme, the child may have difficulty growing up adjusted, as the process of grief was not followed naturally.

The process of grief (described properly by the thanatologist Kubler-Ross) is not something to be taken lightly, as it is only in its completion that people finally move on and face the reality of the loved one's passage. Because of her mother's words, Tsukimi was not afforded this normal process of grieving. It is no surprise that her current existence was majorly defined by her mother's death as she was still unable to move on from it. Because the normal process was stilted and stoppered, it transmogrified into something pathologic. Even after years have passed, Tsukimi was still heavily affected by her mother's death. Had she been allowed to cry her heart out or had she not been 'pressured' by her mother, she may have become more adjusted as a person. She may even be one of the princesses who proudly strut Tokyo. One must recall that the primordial reason to her being an otaku of jellyfish was her excursion with her mother when she was near death: the child is the father of the man.

The OP expanded further

The opening animation of the song, as I mentioned in a previous post, is full of prognostication with regard to the future events in the series. As the allusions speak for themselves, they predict certain events from the short, referential skits.

At the later part of the OP, there was a marriage skit with Shu protesting the marriage of Kuranosuke with an unknown lady. That unknown lady popped up in the preview for the next episode, and it is currently obvious where Shu's emotions lie. While it may seem disturbing for some that Kuragehime was going to become a love story, I am enjoying the direction it's been taking as it won't be anything but an iridescent love story: I've had my fill of the Amars and they're very good, but only as side characters. I hope they will be more than one-dimensional at the end of the series, but I'm thankful that they have shifted focus to the relationships of the main characters. Besides ...

Every story is a love story

All stories eventually and inexorably deal with love. The love may not be romantic or erotic in nature, but love can never be skirted from and can never be avoided in any story, as it is a fundamental positive emotion ingrained in every human being. It's just that the love is directed towards different objects: whether these are inanimate or imaginary, as is the case with the Amars; filial, as with Quentin Compson; or of course, romantic, as with Shu's towards Tsukimi's. Every story is essentially a love story, however, perverted or sublimated.

As I've mentioned in the previous segment, I'm not too fond of the previous focus on the Amars and their idiosyncratic manifestations of love, so I find that the current direction of the series is more interesting. By placing focus on such a paradoxical emotion among the series's central entities, the show's become more colorful.

Kuranosuke's jealousy

It has already been pointed out by many that Kuranosuke is highly attractive. An unbiased observer, as observed in the previous episode, funnily pointed out that Kuranosuke was 'ikemen.' Whether dressed as a woman or man, he's highly confident in his beauty. He isn't delusional: as he pointed out, he was endlessly scouted and his girlfriends were the beauties of his place. Their bitterness towards each other, however, lead to his disappointment in them. Their outward beauty was masked by their ugliness within.

In contrast, Tsukimi did not bathe in the knowledge of her attractiveness: in fact, she tried to shy away from it. She masked her outer beauty with disregard, but it's quite obvious that she's a kind girl. When Kuranosuke touched her up, however, she noticed her being a diamond covered with just a ton of dirt. Even then, he still wasn't able to see her beauty, because he was so focused on her physical makeover. It was only in this episode where they looked into each other's eyes (as Tsukimi's disability with her vision made her braver), and he saw the beauty within and without. It was very entertaining to watch because he was in persistent denial with his feelings until he finally realized that his feelings towards her were growing. It's ironic that despite his overwhelming handsomeness, physical charms and aggressiveness, he's quite the underdog for Tsukimi's heart.

I think it's difficult to root for him, however. He can practically just walk and beauties will flock to him, whereas his brother has difficulty even having relationships with women. Shu has never been besotted as much as he is with Tsukimi, after all.

Final notes

I sought to write this post topically, since there are a lot of interrelated but highly disparate issues that the current episode tackled. As the puzzle slowly gets constructed, the pieces more and more become connected to the picture. I'd assume that the mystery woman will present complications to the love triangle being fomented by Kuranosuke's jealousy. She will either be interested in Shu or Kuranosuke, and will be a confounder to the major players involved.

I really don't think Shu's turned off with the normal Tsukimi, although I will have to see the future episodes to really tell. The incident during the previous episode was just one bad fluke, after all: he saw her at her worst. Sooner or later, he will have to see her as she really is. I am patiently waiting for the role the new lady will play, since she, at a physical level, is the antipode to Tsukimi: she is quite stylish; she looks mature; and seems social, too. She's one of the princesses that Tsukimi dreams one day to be (even if she is already one).
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Old 2010-11-12, 17:57   Link #244
Kaoru Chujo
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I'm not shipping anyone yet. It's all too delicious. But I don't think Shu finds the "real" Tsukimi creepy. I don't think geeky Tsukimi is much more her normal self than stylish Tsukimi. In fact, kimono Tsukimi with glasses might be as close to her real self as we have seen so far. Certainly, Tsukimi in the blaze of jellyfish enthusiasm is pretty real. Anyway, Shu has no doubt seen lots of beautiful women. I don't think it's just her exterior that entrances him. Perhaps he can see through to something inside. Or perhaps not, lol.

I look forward eagerly to seeing what changes Tsukimi, Shu, Kuranosuke and everyone else go through as we proceed.
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Old 2010-11-12, 18:30   Link #245
physics223
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I'm not shipping anyone yet. It's all too delicious. But I don't think Shu finds the "real" Tsukimi creepy. I don't think geeky Tsukimi is much more her normal self than stylish Tsukimi. In fact, kimono Tsukimi with glasses might be as close to her real self as we have seen so far. Certainly, Tsukimi in the blaze of jellyfish enthusiasm is pretty real. Anyway, Shu has no doubt seen lots of beautiful women. I don't think it's just her exterior that entrances him. Perhaps he can see through to something inside. Or perhaps not, lol.

I look forward eagerly to seeing what changes Tsukimi, Shu, Kuranosuke and everyone else go through as we proceed.
Yeah, I agree. Shu has to know her a bit more, though.
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Old 2010-11-12, 20:22   Link #246
Kazu-kun
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Here's some Kuragehime pics:

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-11-12, 21:50   Link #247
Kamiorika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Here's some Kuragehime pics:

Spoiler:
Wah, cute~ Where are they from?
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Old 2010-11-12, 22:12   Link #248
Eclipze
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Shu had already realized that the geeky person he had passed the glasses to (and called creepy) in the previous episode was Tsukimi, which was why he went to apologise to her at the end of this episode. Plus point for his actions imo.
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Old 2010-11-12, 22:45   Link #249
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
Shu had already realized that the geeky person he had passed the glasses to (and called creepy) in the previous episode was Tsukimi, which was why he went to apologise to her at the end of this episode. Plus point for his actions imo.
Nope, he still doesn't know Tsukimi is the same "creepy" girl. If you listen carefully you'll note he begins his line with "kyo wa", which means he's apologising for something that happened the same day (today), namely hugging her and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamiorika View Post
Wah, cute~ Where are they from?
Mostly from pixiv, a Japanese image site.
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Old 2010-11-12, 23:26   Link #250
jedinat
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I didn't really get the impression from the first couple episodes that romance was going to play a huge part in this anime. I guess that's not the case! I don't really mind, but I hope a serious love triangle does not develop... right now it seems to me that things might develop with Shuu but she'll end up with Kuranosuke in the end. Of course it's kind of impossible to tell at this point. They've developed the two brother's stake in a relationship with Tsukimi about equally... Shuu is as inexperienced as she is and some mutual interest has developed there; being 10 years older also balances things out a bit between them. For Kuranosuke she's completely different than any girl he's known, he seems to really like her, and they have sympathetic histories...

Personally, I prefer Tsukimi x Kuranosuke...
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Old 2010-11-13, 00:28   Link #251
MeoTwister5
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
Kuragehime - 04: the weight of words (contains pictures to defend my stance, but same post)

One of my notebooks was nearing depletion after about three years of use, and so I decided to write a lengthy write-up with dedication until I filled up the notebook's remaining pages. I decided to write about Kuragehime.

The weight of words

It is nothing funny to lose a loved one at such an early age. Children for the most part are unprepared for it and have difficulty dealing with such loss. The absence will most certainly color their maturity and define their personalities in the future (as what is visible with Tsukimi). There are certain things one should never say to children suffering from the passage of someone dear: in our block on pediatrics one of the most memorable things I've learned is that one never tells a child who's lost a loved one not to cry. It's also no good to lie about the one who died, since children, while being young, are more perceptive than they seem, and lying about who they love will reverberate through their entire lives.

Despite being unprepared, however, these children's perceptiveness must not be ignored. Even at such young ages, children often correctly understand a certain event from the priming cues that event presents. In child psychiatry, it is an absolute no-no to be dishonest with a child upon the death of a loved one. As much as we'd like to believe the contrary, children are not idiots. Honesty is extremely important so that the child can face the truth of the event, although that truth must not be forced upon the child at loss: the child must know the truth, but in his due time and in his own terms. It's no good to shove the truth down his throat.

A costly mistake most parents commit towards their children is lying to them with regard to their (the parent's) condition for 'the sake of the child.' Simple words and statements like this build up a child to have faith in the dishonesty of fantasy, even if the words were said with noble intent. Another mistake is for the parent to tell the child not to grieve: as most of us know, children don't have a mature sense of ideation, and their actions are mostly rooted in the physical world. If a child was told not to grieve by a loving parent, chances are he will follow that command even if it will be to his detriment in the future (how should the child know how about that?). Taken to the extreme, the child may have difficulty growing up adjusted, as the process of grief was not followed naturally.

The process of grief (described properly by the thanatologist Kubler-Ross) is not something to be taken lightly, as it is only in its completion that people finally move on and face the reality of the loved one's passage. Because of her mother's words, Tsukimi was not afforded this normal process of grieving. It is no surprise that her current existence was majorly defined by her mother's death as she was still unable to move on from it. Because the normal process was stilted and stoppered, it transmogrified into something pathologic. Even after years have passed, Tsukimi was still heavily affected by her mother's death. Had she been allowed to cry her heart out or had she not been 'pressured' by her mother, she may have become more adjusted as a person. She may even be one of the princesses who proudly strut Tokyo. One must recall that the primordial reason to her being an otaku of jellyfish was her excursion with her mother when she was near death: the child is the father of the man.

The OP expanded further

The opening animation of the song, as I mentioned in a previous post, is full of prognostication with regard to the future events in the series. As the allusions speak for themselves, they predict certain events from the short, referential skits.

At the later part of the OP, there was a marriage skit with Shu protesting the marriage of Kuranosuke with an unknown lady. That unknown lady popped up in the preview for the next episode, and it is currently obvious where Shu's emotions lie. While it may seem disturbing for some that Kuragehime was going to become a love story, I am enjoying the direction it's been taking as it won't be anything but an iridescent love story: I've had my fill of the Amars and they're very good, but only as side characters. I hope they will be more than one-dimensional at the end of the series, but I'm thankful that they have shifted focus to the relationships of the main characters. Besides ...

Every story is a love story

All stories eventually and inexorably deal with love. The love may not be romantic or erotic in nature, but love can never be skirted from and can never be avoided in any story, as it is a fundamental positive emotion ingrained in every human being. It's just that the love is directed towards different objects: whether these are inanimate or imaginary, as is the case with the Amars; filial, as with Quentin Compson; or of course, romantic, as with Shu's towards Tsukimi's. Every story is essentially a love story, however, perverted or sublimated.

As I've mentioned in the previous segment, I'm not too fond of the previous focus on the Amars and their idiosyncratic manifestations of love, so I find that the current direction of the series is more interesting. By placing focus on such a paradoxical emotion among the series's central entities, the show's become more colorful.

Kuranosuke's jealousy

It has already been pointed out by many that Kuranosuke is highly attractive. An unbiased observer, as observed in the previous episode, funnily pointed out that Kuranosuke was 'ikemen.' Whether dressed as a woman or man, he's highly confident in his beauty. He isn't delusional: as he pointed out, he was endlessly scouted and his girlfriends were the beauties of his place. Their bitterness towards each other, however, lead to his disappointment in them. Their outward beauty was masked by their ugliness within.

In contrast, Tsukimi did not bathe in the knowledge of her attractiveness: in fact, she tried to shy away from it. She masked her outer beauty with disregard, but it's quite obvious that she's a kind girl. When Kuranosuke touched her up, however, she noticed her being a diamond covered with just a ton of dirt. Even then, he still wasn't able to see her beauty, because he was so focused on her physical makeover. It was only in this episode where they looked into each other's eyes (as Tsukimi's disability with her vision made her braver), and he saw the beauty within and without. It was very entertaining to watch because he was in persistent denial with his feelings until he finally realized that his feelings towards her were growing. It's ironic that despite his overwhelming handsomeness, physical charms and aggressiveness, he's quite the underdog for Tsukimi's heart.

I think it's difficult to root for him, however. He can practically just walk and beauties will flock to him, whereas his brother has difficulty even having relationships with women. Shu has never been besotted as much as he is with Tsukimi, after all.

Final notes

I sought to write this post topically, since there are a lot of interrelated but highly disparate issues that the current episode tackled. As the puzzle slowly gets constructed, the pieces more and more become connected to the picture. I'd assume that the mystery woman will present complications to the love triangle being fomented by Kuranosuke's jealousy. She will either be interested in Shu or Kuranosuke, and will be a confounder to the major players involved.

I really don't think Shu's turned off with the normal Tsukimi, although I will have to see the future episodes to really tell. The incident during the previous episode was just one bad fluke, after all: he saw her at her worst. Sooner or later, he will have to see her as she really is. I am patiently waiting for the role the new lady will play, since she, at a physical level, is the antipode to Tsukimi: she is quite stylish; she looks mature; and seems social, too. She's one of the princesses that Tsukimi dreams one day to be (even if she is already one).
Regarding the OP images:

I think we still have to make a consideration based on the fact that those scenes are based on actual movies, therefore we also need to consider the basis of those movies to see what the allusions mean.

1. Star Wars - Kuranosuke as Luke and his father as Vader. This might actually be pretty obvious when you think about it. Kuranosuke fighting his father with Tsukimi as his sidekick most likely more than alludes to his desire for rebellion and breaking free from the family's patriarchal grasp, but also based on this episode suggests that his family isn't likely going to approve of him ending up loving a girl like Tsukimi, someone considered a social outcast and therefore not adequate for his son. As the Death Star goes boom, so does Kuranosuke's intentions of following his family's dictates on his life. He's started with his clothing, might as well cap it off with Tsukimi.

2. Singing in the Rain - A happy movie (sort of) for a happy Tsukimi. Tsukimi is happy enough with the status qou that she can sing and dance to it even when it rains down on her life.

3. Mary Poppins - Kuranosuke as one of the most titular governesses of entertainment. Just like Ms. Poppins herself, she gives not only Tsukimi but the other residents the sugar to make their medicines go down, and infuse a more colorful and exciting life into their otherwise isolated life in the apartment.

4. The Graduate - Ben ideally shouts for Elaine, but since Shu faints after seeing the girl Kuranosuke's supposed to marry, I guess it's questionable what Shu was trying to do in that situation. If this girl that was previewed in the ED is who he was calling to, it makes me wonder why he'd react the way he did. Perhaps it alludes to Kuranosuke being matched up to that girl by the family's wishes and Shu disapproves because she ends up liking this girl, and that Kuranosuke should end up with Tsukimi. Whatever the case as the actual movie goes, the scene should follow with the girl rejecting the marriage, goes after Shu,they get on a bus and with awkward looks the movie ends. It's not too late as Elaine says to her mother, and for the actual characters involved in the series, it's not too late for any of them.

As for the other movies my brain is currently too shot to explain so I'll leave this here for now.
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Old 2010-11-13, 00:35   Link #252
Guardian Enzo
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I'm delighted that the redevelopment issue appears to have been a feint, at least for now. That would have been a conventional plot course, and this show never seems to take those.

While the Amars are amusing and appear to be in the story mainly as comic relief and enablers for Tsukimi's anti-social behavior, we're seeing her set up along with Kuronosuke and Shu as the main characters. Shu and Tsukimi are a pair of innocents, while Kuro most certainly is not - and he seems somewhat jealous of that fact. Kuro's actions in general seem to be driven by a sort of "enlightened self-interest" - saving Clara, the makeovers, warning the Amars about the development deal. They seem like the right thing to do, but he mainly does them because he's bored and because he can. He's gorgeous dressed as either sex, rich, and the Prime Minister calls him "-Pyon!" But in Tsukimi he's starting to see something he didn't expect, and it's beginning to make him feel things he's probably never felt before.

This is a fascinating triangle being set up here, and I'm not sure where my feelings lie just yet. I look forward to being surprised at least a few times every week - this show is good at that.
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Old 2010-11-13, 01:05   Link #253
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
They seem like the right thing to do, but he mainly does them because he's bored and because he can.
First, it's Kuranosuke, not Koronosuke. This is important because the "kura" kanji in his name is the same kanji from kurage (jellyfish). This is not coincidence, of course.

Putting that aside, I don't think he's only interesting in the Amar girls because he's bored. He has realized that his previous acquaintances were shallow: "they only talk about music fashion and sex" he said. Tsukimi, at least, is different, and he can see this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
4. The Graduate - Ben ideally shouts for Elaine, but since Shu faints after seeing the girl Kuranosuke's supposed to marry, I guess it's questionable what Shu was trying to do in that situation. If this girl that was previewed in the ED is who he was calling to, it makes me wonder why he'd react the way he did. Perhaps it alludes to Kuranosuke being matched up to that girl by the family's wishes and Shu disapproves because she ends up liking this girl, and that Kuranosuke should end up with Tsukimi. Whatever the case as the actual movie goes, the scene should follow with the girl rejecting the marriage, goes after Shu,they get on a bus and with awkward looks the movie ends. It's not too late as Elaine says to her mother, and for the actual characters involved in the series, it's not too late for any of them.
My interpretation for this one:
Spoiler for I'm just wild guessing, but just to be safe:

Or it could be something totally diferent. We'll see, I guess.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2010-11-13 at 01:44. Reason: part of this post sounds a bit rude, doesn't it? my english sucks, so bear with it, please.
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Old 2010-11-13, 01:29   Link #254
MeoTwister5
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Wasn't planning of putting blog contents here but I think it's worth discussing, considering Tsukimi and Kuranosuke's psychological statuses.

The Things We Feel and The Things We Want.

The episode confirms that her mother really has died, leaving a deep psychological and emotional trauma that has influenced her life ever since. A promise of strength on the deathbed makes her want to live and breath strong, without crying or show any signs of weakness. There is an irony in this for someone who wishes to be strong in memory of her mother, yet at the same time running away from the difficult things that face her. She does not run from everything, but her desire to be passive and get away from them is evident. There are still questions as to how her mother’s death has affected her self-esteem issues and her self-identity, but I can presume to believe it is rooted on her mother being her emotional backbone, the very person who helps maintain her identity as a person. She was not ugly as a kid, but perhaps her mother was the one who kept her believing that she was a good and beautiful person, no matter what the world says.

With her mother having passed, she must have lost that emotional and mental backbone that kept her upright and believing. With no one to help relieve the social pressures that diluted her world and self-image, she confines herself to her shell, only being okay to open up to others like her and no one else. A classic defensive mechanism.

Clara did say it best: her problem is that she over exaggerates any criticism, even the criticism she creates for herself. This is one of the things that really puts her down, and one of the things that she must overcome to come out of her shell.

If the parallelisms between her and jellyfish hasn’t been clear before, it sure as hell is clear now. They possess a pure aesthetic beauty that is marred and overrun by the idea that they are the stone faced killaz of the oceans. There is truth to that as the neurotoxins of sea jellies like the Box Jelly is one of the most potent toxins on the planet, and with that fear and rejection dominates the persona people see of these delicately beautiful creatures. As the princess of Jellies, Tsukimi has adopted the persona the public has of them, as those of feared and undesired entities no one wants nor cares about. She has then fulfilled the vicious cycle of society’s dictated negative self-identity, a jellyfish who believes what the other creatures of the sea say about them.

Seeing Kuranosuke be jealous was adorable and all, but you must ask “why now?” when he sees Shu hugging her. It was only now that he probably realized he’s not just doing things for his own gain, as a challenge to his own beautification skills, but as he implied in the previous episode he sees a deeper quality within her that he cannot find in the shallow lives of others. Perhaps the attraction implied previously, but only now does it come to the surface. He finds some sort of beauty in the physical ugliness that Tsukimi automatically presents for her own reasons, as opposed to the physical beauty that others show which disgusts him.

I could therefore conclude that in reality, Kuranosuke searches for a beauty far beyond the one that people in his life showed. These were the beautiful people who fought and dragged each other down to get to him, in the process bringing out the ugliness within them that completely overpowers whatever physical beauty they had in the first place. This inner ugliness disgusts him, and so he wished to find if it is indeed possible for people to be beautiful inside and out. For him, he thinks Tsukimi is this person. Tsukimi’s obviously not like those other girls who giggle and drool over him and this is one of the things that probably caught his eye, as is the rest of the Amars.

I wanted to ask myself why he’s doing this. Clearly it’s not only because of the ugliness he’s seen within the hearts of others, but I think it’s also related to his own mother. We haven’t seen too much of his own memories so far, but his mommy complex (not yet, and I hope never will be, Oedipal) is also at the root of his own motivations and desires. He found his mother to be an ephemeral beauty, and I’m safe to assume not only physically but inside as well. As he had come to live in the household ten years ago, thus indicating that he might really be a bastard child, his memories of his mother have become few and far between. I surmise that his search for the complete beauty is also a search for his mother as well: a person who was beautiful both inside and out.
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Old 2010-11-13, 01:35   Link #255
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Putting that aside, I disagree with you. He's not interesting in the Amar girls just because he's bored. He has realized that his previous acquaintances were shallow: "they only talk about music fashion and sex" he said. Tsukimi, at least, is different, and he can see this.
I think you're arguing for my point, not against it. Of course he's involved himself with Tsukimi and the Amars because he's bored - he's bored with the life he's been leading. That's what enlightened self-interest is - doing the right thing because it ultimately benefits you. He sees Tsukimi first as a damsel in distress, then as an ugly ducking needing to be made a swan, then as part of a group of poor simpletons about to be trampled on by his family's political machine. That's a hell of a lot more interesting than music, fashion and sex - and for a smart person realizing his life is shallow, an opportunity to feel better about himself. Don't you feel the incredible arrogance he brings to his interactions with both the Amars and Tsukimi herself?

None of this is to say that he's a bad guy - or that enlightened self-interest is a bad thing. Only that he's still very much a self-centered individual and it's only in his reaction to Shu and Tsukimi hugging (itself a selfish emotion) that we see his depth of character beginning to emerge. This is further advanced by his apology in the car, though that in itself had an arrogance to it - since his own mother is not irretrievably lost as hers is, only lost to him - for now.
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Old 2010-11-13, 01:48   Link #256
Falkor
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Because it's easier to isolate yourself than to change.

The nuns are "enabling". So it's easier for her stay in her situation and not move forward because she has other people that have no intention of doing it and have developed a lifestyle to avoid societal responsibilities. She just calls home to her dad for her allowance like those other girls are doing.
I think she has great reasons to stay the way she is, as in being an otaku and her current relationships are important parts of herself. The work has shown cues indicating that she will not remain a stagnant character, though.

but can we say that the nuns are a bad influence? Even though I see people sharing similar interests and problems, that doesn't necessarily mean they will be unsupportive of Tsukimi's decisions. For example, during the fourth episode, she received another makeover and it was one of the sisters' idea to choose her a kimono; nobody disagreed nor rejected her new looks, even the other nuns. While I believe that Tsukimi has already found an enjoyable life with the sisters, there's really nothing impeding her from seeking self-improvement, except for her own beliefs and fears. I think Tsukimi has started to move little by little, regardless of the nuns' actions (or lack of them).

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Originally Posted by Eclipze View Post
Shu had already realized that the geeky person he had passed the glasses to (and called creepy) in the previous episode was Tsukimi, which was why he went to apologise to her at the end of this episode. Plus point for his actions imo.
oddly enough, I also thought of the same thing.

====

will be posting my thoughts on the episode sometime later. but nosebleeds were never this funny, and I still think that Tsukimi looks the best without the make up; the kimono and the new hair style really suited her, though.

====

@physics223

that was an interesting reading.
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Old 2010-11-13, 02:07   Link #257
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I think you're arguing for my point, not against it. Of course he's involved himself with Tsukimi and the Amars because he's bored - he's bored with the life he's been leading. That's what enlightened self-interest is - doing the right thing because it ultimately benefits you. He sees Tsukimi first as a damsel in distress, then as an ugly ducking needing to be made a swan, then as part of a group of poor simpletons about to be trampled on by his family's political machine. That's a hell of a lot more interesting than music, fashion and sex - and for a smart person realizing his life is shallow, an opportunity to feel better about himself.

So what if Kuranoseke got involved with Tsukimi because he could get something for himself? Shu got involved with Tsukimi because he wanted something too (namely Tsukimi herself). My point is that I don't see what is so selfish about it? I mean, everthing we do begins with a self-interest reason. Only when we begin to interact with other people we really start to take their feelings into consideration IMO.

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Don't you feel the incredible arrogance he brings to his interactions with both the Amars and Tsukimi herself?
I think he's behaviour is more due to being a rich and overall popular guy than because he feels superior to them. He may be rude, but not out of arrogance, he's just being himself. It's just that nobody ever told him he could came across as rude because they were too charmed with him to notice. For instant, note how he's pretty much the same way with everyone else. including his previous friends and his brother.
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Old 2010-11-13, 03:50   Link #258
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post

My interpretation for this one:
Spoiler for I'm just wild guessing, but just to be safe:

Or it could be something totally diferent. We'll see, I guess.
I always thought it was
Spoiler for The Graduate scene:
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Old 2010-11-13, 06:18   Link #259
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Another great episode. There were some touching, as well as funny moments in this episode. I enjoyed the return of the "Olé!" and Shu's delayed nosebleed was hilarious (it happened right when I was starting to wonder why he showed no reaction to the sight of undressed Tsukimi)
As we thought, Tsukimi's mother is dead, and she's clearly not come to terms with it. Doing so will obviously be an important part of her development.

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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Seeing Kuranosuke be jealous was adorable and all, but you must ask “why now?” when he sees Shu hugging her. It was only now that he probably realized he’s not just doing things for his own gain, as a challenge to his own beautification skills, but as he implied in the previous episode he sees a deeper quality within her that he cannot find in the shallow lives of others. Perhaps the attraction implied previously, but only now does it come to the surface. He finds some sort of beauty in the physical ugliness that Tsukimi automatically presents for her own reasons, as opposed to the physical beauty that others show which disgusts him.

I could therefore conclude that in reality, Kuranosuke searches for a beauty far beyond the one that people in his life showed. These were the beautiful people who fought and dragged each other down to get to him, in the process bringing out the ugliness within them that completely overpowers whatever physical beauty they had in the first place. This inner ugliness disgusts him, and so he wished to find if it is indeed possible for people to be beautiful inside and out. For him, he thinks Tsukimi is this person. Tsukimi’s obviously not like those other girls who giggle and drool over him and this is one of the things that probably caught his eye, as is the rest of the Amars.
I don't think Kuranoskuke sees beauty in Tsukimi's physical "ugliness", or else he wouldn't try to change it. The reason he took an interest in her is that he saw her fighting hard to save one measly jellyfish, which is something he would have never imagined anyone doing. His attraction to Tsukimi is absolutely not physical in my opinion, which probably surprises even him. He likes her because she's completely different from any girls (and boys) he's met in his life.

I agree that Kuranosuke is currently searching for something more than shallow physical beauty and he's realized once his eyes met Tsuikimi's for the first time that Tsukimi really might be the one possessing the "pure beauty" he's searching for. That's what makes Tsukimi truly different from the others: she has pure as snow on the inside, and she's once again showed it in this episode. It's also probably the first time he's met someone not interested in his physical beauty, which makes her all the more attractive to him.

As for whether this search for a person beautiful both on the inside and the outside, I'm not getting into that.

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Originally Posted by Yumii-chan View Post
I always thought it was
Spoiler for The Graduate scene:
I thought the same. But as physics pointed out in his great post, the same woman is seen in the preview for next week's episode, and it doesn't look like she's cross-dressed Kuranosuke (her facial structure is different).
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Old 2010-11-13, 06:40   Link #260
Ashlotte
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I'm not shipping anyone yet. It's all too delicious. But I don't think Shu finds the "real" Tsukimi creepy. I don't think geeky Tsukimi is much more her normal self than stylish Tsukimi. In fact, kimono Tsukimi with glasses might be as close to her real self as we have seen so far. Certainly, Tsukimi in the blaze of jellyfish enthusiasm is pretty real. Anyway, Shu has no doubt seen lots of beautiful women. I don't think it's just her exterior that entrances him. Perhaps he can see through to something inside. Or perhaps not, lol.

I look forward eagerly to seeing what changes Tsukimi, Shu, Kuranosuke and everyone else go through as we proceed.

Aye...You don't become a 30 year old virgin who as far as your family can tell has little interest in women if all that gets your motor running is a little makeup and a nice hairdo...He may not even be aware of what his attraction for her is on a conscious level yet, but I'd be immensely surprised if its just physical.

Like you I'm not shipping any body either, but its a little sad to see so many sell Shu so short already...Show has plenty of room for lots of nice character development yet.
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