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Old 2010-11-14, 09:30   Link #861
Yot-chan
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I was so disappointed with the movie. There just so much that was just...bleh. What was with Sheryl throwing the cape thing around herself and running down with a totally new outfit on? There were too many face palm moments for me.
Oh, c'mon...you've seen DYRL, right? Sheryl's stage outfits are (and always have been) holograms. They've had that technology in the Macross universe since 2009...

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
As I noted a few times in the past, based on Crusaders review, so far the movie seems like an in-universe PR move to white-wash Ranka and Brera.
But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/inde...pic=30317&st=0

Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.

More Sheryl, more Alto, more Ranka, more Valkyrie action...only a total curmudgeon would complain.
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Old 2010-11-14, 09:42   Link #862
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Because she doesn't have to work upwards, i.e. it stunts character growth. She didn't have to get totally awesome at every aspect of being, she already is so when the movie starts. That bothers me somewhat. I saw Sheryl grow in the series, I didn't very much in the movie.
I can agree with that, somewhat. The whole "you're not all alone" thingie was her kind of showing some growth - more than any of the other characters, actually. So, I guess I'm not all that hung up on that particular aspect, then - not that I care if I'm a plot or a character person, sometimes I only care about having fun.

And I'm with Yot-chan on this: more Sheryl is always good. You can't go wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/inde...pic=30317&st=0
DAMN, Gubaba, that's pure gold. I kind of like his reasoning, myself.
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Old 2010-11-14, 10:40   Link #863
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Oh, c'mon...you've seen DYRL, right? Sheryl's stage outfits are (and always have been) holograms. They've had that technology in the Macross universe since 2009...
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time? what if the computer got crash..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1548563/

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Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2010-11-14 at 11:09. Reason: There is an "EDIT" button you know...
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Old 2010-11-14, 10:54   Link #864
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
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Yeah, the movie felt empty to me. It just felt like they put another hand in the cookie jar for the hell of it.

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Originally Posted by BetoJR View Post
And, c'mon, DragoZERO are you gonna fixate on Sheryl's change of clothes (into the best new outfit, no less) now, in a series shock full of improbable things? I mean, really?
I will have to wait for the second movie because there are plot points that were totally dropped and they may explain them later.
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Old 2010-11-14, 11:01   Link #865
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But ALL Macross stories are in-universe movies or TV shows: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/inde...pic=30317&st=0
Well, that doesn't make no sense at all. It just serves to stop all discussion cold, in the vein of "It's all fictional anyway, who cares?". A terrible interpretion from Kawamori, IMO. But of course some people will love it, those who hate the idea of any sort of fixed canon.

*edit* Also, as I just noticed from the post of a strong Sheryl-hater on another blog ( Oh, the irony! ), Kawamori apparently had a change of heart in the last 11 years as to how Macross continuity functions. I refer you to AlaAlbas interview translation from 1 1/2 months ago.

Quote:
I see. So you feel Sheryl is more fit into this shoujo manga world. And how was it after you have read Sheryl, Kiss in the Galaxy. The story is a bit different isnt it.
K: Ahaha, isnt it nice(laugh). It feels like, "aah, this is the kind of shoujo manga I wanted to see." The Sheryl who Oyama-san draw, her high-minded and lovelyness is just all right.
When the medium itself changed, even if it's a same work I think it's okay to see its own arrangement. To be frank, I wont mind even if they are all parallel world. Hence the setting of TV serie's and movie's is a bit different, and the stories are a bit different too.
Of course, also in manga version, even if the thing drawn were the same work, I think it's okay to see a different way of description. So thats why, in this manga, in chapter 1(stage 0) the story starts of from Galaxy, a part we didnt do in TV version, as a reader I can enjoy this part.


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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.

More Sheryl, more Alto, more Ranka, more Valkyrie action...only a total curmudgeon would complain.
I am not complaining per se, only categorizing how much I like one product over the other and that I don't view them as the same continuity. The movie is fine. It's just not the same quality as the series to me.
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Old 2010-11-14, 14:30   Link #866
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I never say I hate Sheryl lol...in fact, I like Sheryl...(she is pretty much designed to be liked anyway)
Heh, that isn't quite the same as having an undying love for Sheryl, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by justavisitor View Post
I didn't really focus on Sheryl lol...except the part at the very beginning when the explosion from Vajra set off beside Sheryl and she got propelled straight into the sky...I was thinking "how the heck did she survive that?? "...for some reasons I laughed so hard at that scene
<3

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
But so far, Alto has been wussied up ( I really didn't approve of his characterization suddenly turning to "I am losing myself because of acting", instead of focusing on the already existing conflict with this family ) and the nobility of his decisions has diminished somewhat by Ozma basically blackmailing him into SMS.
Alto's primary conflict, either way, is in his search for an identity. His relationship with his father was previously the battleground where that all played out, but most people seem to barely have noticed how that resolved itself in episode 23. It's still essentially a different route to the same destination.

Alto's decisions early in the series never were particularly noble. He doesn't pilot a valk simply because "the fate of the entire universe lies in the hands of one boy"; he does it because VFs are cool and he likes flying. That in itself makes him more awesome than the most of mecha leads out there.

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Sheryl, conversely, has been "awesomed" up, which somehow feels wrong. In the series, went from a self-determined, yet arrogant and somewhat aloof, girl to the playful girl we just saw in episode six, to a selfless and serious woman.
To be honest, the first half of the series isn't really about Sheryl. Don't get me wrong, her antics are wonderfully entertaining, and the movie truly suffers for the want of a panty chase scene, but much of what we saw was still just Sheryl's public persona, instead of her private one.

I think the black bunny/white bunny motif exemplifies this. As a celebrity, all we see are her different personas. She's "100% natural", and yet she's aware that she's the product of commercialism. Is she genuinely kind and magnanimous, or is she just acting a role? Is she a friend, or is she a spy? Can we trust her, or can't we? The only way to find out is to look beyond the false image of the songstress to find the real person underneath.

This tension was present in the series as well, but it wasn't made quite as explicit.

What defines her as a character, however, is how she rebuilds her career in the face of a seemingly insurmountable adversity and reinvents herself. Her "rebirth" in the shelter scene is pretty much the defining moment of the series (I still get goosebumps when watching it, even two years later). So really, I won't have much to say about her character's overall development until I see the second half of the movies.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Anyway, Swampy didn't QUITE get what I meant... Simply put, don't worry about continuity and just enjoy the ride. One will get fewer sticks up one's ass that way.
Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease.

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Originally Posted by moncikoma View Post
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time? what if the computer got crash..
Hmm... Refer to Macross Ace #3.
Spoiler for (NSFW): See summary for explanation:
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Old 2010-11-14, 15:20   Link #867
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Heh, that isn't quite the same as having an undying love for Sheryl, isn't it?
Definitely not...and I haven't planned to switch camp lol...Speaking about Sheryl tho, I really like the part where she rides the segway (Offtopic..why would segway become popular in 2059 when it almost becomes obsolete in 2010 ) and takes photos in the forest...seems so peaceful


@magnuskn
actually, parallel world may not be a bad idea...Amagami is in the parallel world, Yosuga no Sora is in the parallel world, Kamen Rider Decade (Everyone should try to watch at least 1 Kamen Rider series!!) is all about parallel world...Kawamori has a pretty good instinct of catching up to the new trend if the interview is true
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Old 2010-11-14, 19:25   Link #868
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I really don't have an issue with all of them being movies/series. I actually kinda like it better than alternate continuity, it seems a bit more original. I can appreciate the art of it, and the intellectual side of analyzing fictional events similar to how real movies do it, only in this case we can only analyze the historical event through this medium instead of looking it up on Wikipedia. I'm pretty sure Sheryl existed either way anyway.

Also...

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Originally Posted by justavisitor
I didn't really focus on Sheryl lol...except the part at the very beginning when the explosion from Vajra set off beside Sheryl and she got propelled straight into the sky...I was thinking "how the heck did she survive that?? "...for some reasons I laughed so hard at that scene
It was funny, I was amused too. As for how she survived my estimates are that she was thrown roughly 39 feet in 0.25 seconds, meaning she and Alto were subjected to approximately 5-6 Gs of acceleration. Survivable! Yay! Sheryl did not go squish. She is fortunate however she did not get fragged by debris, or burned.
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Old 2010-11-14, 20:01   Link #869
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Originally Posted by moncikoma View Post
so that means...sheryl is naked all the time?
No, of course not. Didn't you watch the tv series? Specifically episode 7?

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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease.
Maybe so, but I'm dead serious here, and I'm not making fun of anyone. It's nearly impossible for me to compare SDFM TV to DYRL, because I view them as inextricably connected. As I've said before, it's all a big hot fudge sundae to me...SDFM TV is the ice cream, DYRL is the fudge sauce, and FB 2012 is the cherry on top. The cumulative effect of all of all three of them together beats out any of them separately. And unless they cock up the second Frontier movie terribly, I think the same will be true here.
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Old 2010-11-15, 00:45   Link #870
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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Alto's primary conflict, either way, is in his search for an identity. His relationship with his father was previously the battleground where that all played out, but most people seem to barely have noticed how that resolved itself in episode 23. It's still essentially a different route to the same destination.
True, I just liked the series way better. What can I say, I appreciated the subtlety of Altos characterization and this more "in your face" approach doesn't mesh that well with it.

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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
Alto's decisions early in the series never were particularly noble. He doesn't pilot a valk simply because "the fate of the entire universe lies in the hands of one boy"; he does it because VFs are cool and he likes flying. That in itself makes him more awesome than the most of mecha leads out there.
Now, here I disagree, at least partially. You are right that he wanted to fly the VF-25, but especially after re-watching the initial episodes and discussing them, I am pretty sure that having Gilliam die for him and seeing the devastation to his home was another reason why he joined. And for protecting Ranka, although that falls under "protecting his home".

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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
To be honest, the first half of the series isn't really about Sheryl. Don't get me wrong, her antics are wonderfully entertaining, and the movie truly suffers for the want of a panty chase scene, but much of what we saw was still just Sheryl's public persona, instead of her private one.

I think the black bunny/white bunny motif exemplifies this. As a celebrity, all we see are her different personas. She's "100% natural", and yet she's aware that she's the product of commercialism. Is she genuinely kind and magnanimous, or is she just acting a role? Is she a friend, or is she a spy? Can we trust her, or can't we? The only way to find out is to look beyond the false image of the songstress to find the real person underneath.

This tension was present in the series as well, but it wasn't made quite as explicit.
Well, I think you are conflating the two versions of Sheryl right now, to the detriment of the series Sheryl. True, we get those questions about Sheryls motivations in the movie, since we almost immediately get our attention called to her possibly being a spy ( Btw, Ozma in the movie really sucks for almost arresting Sheryl out of his overprotectiveness. How about getting some evidence, you schmuck! ).

Sheryl from the series is not under any such suspicions. I haven't seen her moments of kindness being a "public persona" at all in her interactions, rather the contrary. In everything she does with the other big two after that big Vajra shows up at the end of episode 2, she seems to have shown her true personality to them ( except for teasing Alto a bit that one time on the tram. ).

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Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
What defines her as a character, however, is how she rebuilds her career in the face of a seemingly insurmountable adversity and reinvents herself. Her "rebirth" in the shelter scene is pretty much the defining moment of the series (I still get goosebumps when watching it, even two years later). So really, I won't have much to say about her character's overall development until I see the second half of the movies.
Yeah, we are missing one half of the equation. We'll have to see. IMO, though, the first movie didn't manage to show the Sheryl we knew from those first seven episodes, but then again she is being cast in a different role in the movie than in the series.


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Oh, I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf, there. I was just helping you troll... *ahem* I mean... I was just joining in on the fun with magnus. He tends to be a bit rigid in his thinking at times, making him oh-so-easy to tease.
Eh, I like analytical thinking. If that makes me easy to tease with wild hypothesis, that's the price I pay for it. I actually am one of the people who can be convinced of another persons viewpoint on the internet, if that other person has a better argument than me. It happens sometimes, like when we had that discussion about how spontaneous Rankas departure from Frontier was, I came out on the "it was premeditated" side and nobody budged a milimeter until Father Hentai came up with "Maybe it was Breras idea!". Which got me, I think immediately, to admit that I hadn't thought of that for a second before ( since when does Brera have the impulse to do anything on his own? ) and that this opened a whole other avenue on how one viewed the Griffith Park scene.

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@magnuskn
actually, parallel world may not be a bad idea...Amagami is in the parallel world, Yosuga no Sora is in the parallel world, Kamen Rider Decade (Everyone should try to watch at least 1 Kamen Rider series!!) is all about parallel world...Kawamori has a pretty good instinct of catching up to the new trend if the interview is true
The interview is as real as it gets, the scanned pages of it are shown two posts above of AlaAlbas first part of the translation.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Maybe so, but I'm dead serious here, and I'm not making fun of anyone. It's nearly impossible for me to compare SDFM TV to DYRL, because I view them as inextricably connected. As I've said before, it's all a big hot fudge sundae to me...SDFM TV is the ice cream, DYRL is the fudge sauce, and FB 2012 is the cherry on top. The cumulative effect of all of all three of them together beats out any of them separately. And unless they cock up the second Frontier movie terribly, I think the same will be true here.
Well, let's just remember that everyone has the right to view things as he wants, personally. I am just pointing out that the differences in approach to many characters make it impossible for me to view the series and films as one continuity, you like it the other way. Kawamori seems to have recanted from that one ( pretty mediocre sourced, if what Renato wrote in his first post on Macross World is still all we know about it ) interview, making the different series/movies more parallel worlds, instead of all in-universe productions.
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Old 2010-11-15, 08:01   Link #871
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Now, here I disagree, at least partially. You are right that he wanted to fly the VF-25, but especially after re-watching the initial episodes and discussing them, I am pretty sure that having Gilliam die for him and seeing the devastation to his home was another reason why he joined. And for protecting Ranka, although that falls under "protecting his home".
Alto isn't particularly fond of Frontier, at least not until late in the series. It's a cage to him in much the same way that his family obligations are (an ongoing metaphor that we see even with his first encounter with the "ceiling" in episode 1). Likewise, his argument with Michael in episode 9 over letting Sheryl pilot is very much about whether his own reasons for piloting are really legitimate: deep down, he's really just running away. It's only after he comes to terms with his father (and notes how frail he is with illness) that he realizes that he was fighting a war that was in his head - and the real battle is over a place that, for the very first time, he recognizes as home.

Just as SDFM set us off on a journey, MF is very much about returning home.

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Well, I think you are conflating the two versions of Sheryl right now, to the detriment of the series Sheryl. True, we get those questions about Sheryls motivations in the movie, since we almost immediately get our attention called to her possibly being a spy ( Btw, Ozma in the movie really sucks for almost arresting Sheryl out of his overprotectiveness. How about getting some evidence, you schmuck! ).

Sheryl from the series is not under any such suspicions. I haven't seen her moments of kindness being a "public persona" at all in her interactions, rather the contrary. In everything she does with the other big two after that big Vajra shows up at the end of episode 2, she seems to have shown her true personality to them ( except for teasing Alto a bit that one time on the tram. ).
What I'm talking about has more to do with Macross' commentary on idols and fame (think back to ghostlightning's article on idols in Macross). MF seems more acutely conscious of commercialism than SDFM was (in everything from the vending machines that chase down their customers to the omnipresent advertisements for the two idols). Stars have both a public and private life, and somewhere in the interface between the two arises the question of authenticity. Who is the real Sheryl Nome?

I'll also say this: most criticisms that I've seen leveled against Sheryl come from a broader mistrust of celebrity and commercialism as a whole (i.e. a reaction to the premise, not the character). In the case of some viewers, we saw this explode into a frenzy of paranoia, such as when Sheryl "went behind Ranka's back" to make moves on Alto in episode 5, 10, and most notably 11. Likewise, some of the derogatory language that gets thrown around regarding Sheryl's relative "forcefulness" (or "forwardness" if you're feeling Victorian) intrinsically link back to the concept of "authenticity". After all, where do you think the metaphor of "selling out" came from?

What makes MF interesting in this regard is that Sheryl is not only aware of the role that she's expected to act, but can step in and out of it as necessary without letting it dominate her personality. In short, the question of authenticity doesn't really matter unless you're trying to pigeonhole her into a convenient box. Good luck with that, of course.

There's much more to be said on this subject, but I don't know how to structure my ideas on it, yet.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:15   Link #872
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Alto isn't particularly fond of Frontier, at least not until late in the series. It's a cage to him in much the same way that his family obligations are (an ongoing metaphor that we see even with his first encounter with the "ceiling" in episode 1). Likewise, his argument with Michael in episode 9 over letting Sheryl pilot is very much about whether his own reasons for piloting are really legitimate: deep down, he's really just running away. It's only after he comes to terms with his father (and notes how frail he is with illness) that he realizes that he was fighting a war that was in his head - and the real battle is over a place that, for the very first time, he recognizes as home.

Just as SDFM set us off on a journey, MF is very much about returning home.
I think if you look at Alto doing things conciously, you are right. But subconciously, the need to protect Frontier, his home, was right there, even with his exterior grouchienss about it. It's as much as he explains to Klan on the rooftop and you could see it with his reaction to the destruction of so much of his home, right after he ran ( rolled? ) away from Ranka and the VF-25 in episode 3.

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What I'm talking about has more to do with Macross' commentary on idols and fame (think back to ghostlightning's article on idols in Macross). MF seems more acutely conscious of commercialism than SDFM was (in everything from the vending machines that chase down their customers to the omnipresent advertisements for the two idols). Stars have both a public and private life, and somewhere in the interface between the two arises the question of authenticity. Who is the real Sheryl Nome?

I'll also say this: most criticisms that I've seen leveled against Sheryl come from a broader mistrust of celebrity and commercialism as a whole (i.e. a reaction to the premise, not the character). In the case of some viewers, we saw this explode into a frenzy of paranoia, such as when Sheryl "went behind Ranka's back" to make moves on Alto in episode 5, 10, and most notably 11. Likewise, some of the derogatory language that gets thrown around regarding Sheryl's relative "forcefulness" (or "forwardness" if you're feeling Victorian) intrinsically link back to the concept of "authenticity". After all, where do you think the metaphor of "selling out" came from?

What makes MF interesting in this regard is that Sheryl is not only aware of the role that she's expected to act, but can step in and out of it as necessary without letting it dominate her personality. In short, the question of authenticity doesn't really matter unless you're trying to pigeonhole her into a convenient box. Good luck with that, of course.

There's much more to be said on this subject, but I don't know how to structure my ideas on it, yet.
Thanks, that was really good commentary. Maybe I misunderstood your prior one, where it felt to me that you were calling into question the autenticity a lot of her actions early in the series. You should join our re-watch of Frontier, there'd be many interesting discussions.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:41   Link #873
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:35   Link #874
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Heh, I totally forgot about the existance of that analysis. I even wrote a comment.
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Old 2010-11-15, 12:34   Link #875
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Well, let's just remember that everyone has the right to view things as he wants, personally.
True. I was just sharing how I view them, which may or may not be helpful. But no matter what, I believe that comparing series to movie is usually a false dichotomy, since there is no pressing need to choose one over the other.

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I am just pointing out that the differences in approach to many characters make it impossible for me to view the series and films as one continuity, you like it the other way.
No, I don't. I view them as different continuities. But continuity is not terribly important in Macross, and worrying about it will just give you a headache.

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Kawamori seems to have recanted from that one ( pretty mediocre sourced, if what Renato wrote in his first post on Macross World is still all we know about it )...
Who whoa whoa whoa... Renato is EMINENTLY trustable. He's translated numerous articles and interviews about the making of Macross, he's the one that introduced me to a Macross staff member, he led the expeditions to Studio Nue and to Big West (and will probably lead the one to Satelight if we go...although I'm rather proud to say that I'm the one who found the place). Basically, most of what I know about Macross's production, I know because Renato either told me or pointed me in the right direction.

And the site WAS there last year. I think most of us commenting in the thread checked it. I know I did.

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interview, making the different series/movies more parallel worlds, instead of all in-universe productions.
And "recanted" is kind of a strong word, don't you think? Kawamori made similar statements about both versions of SDFM being like historical recountings of WWII in Animag (Issue 11, IIRC...but of course, I don't have the issue with me), but that was even further back, of course. But he held that view for at least ten years (the Animag interview being done in the late '80s) (so why would he change it?), and "parallel universe" seems like it leads to the same outcome, anyway: "Don't worry about continuity, we've got a whole bunch of different versions of the same events, blah blah blah." It could be that saying they're all parallel universes is just convenient shorthand for the same idea. Or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, besides him?

And anyway, neither version supports Crusader's idea of the TV series being real and the movie being in-universe.

(Personally, I like the "fiction" explanation MUCH better than the "Parallel universe" explanation, because it has the virtue of being rather unique. How many times have you heard the "parallel universe" explanation? Too many, I'll wager.)
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Old 2010-11-15, 13:06   Link #876
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True. I was just sharing how I view them, which may or may not be helpful. But no matter what, I believe that comparing series to movie is usually a false dichotomy, since there is no pressing need to choose one over the other.
No, that's true. We'll see how that works out after movie two, though.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
No, I don't. I view them as different continuities. But continuity is not terribly important in Macross, and worrying about it will just give you a headache.
Well, since it's all pretty fresh and recent, I'm of course much more sensitive to it than with DYRL.

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Who whoa whoa whoa... Renato is EMINENTLY trustable. He's translated numerous articles and interviews about the making of Macross, he's the one that introduced me to a Macross staff member, he led the expeditions to Studio Nue and to Big West (and will probably lead the one to Satelight if we go...although I'm rather proud to say that I'm the one who found the place). Basically, most of what I know about Macross's production, I know because Renato either told me or pointed me in the right direction.

And the site WAS there last year. I think most of us commenting in the thread checked it. I know I did.
I wasn't trying to impugn Renato, but rather referencing his own words that the interview was mentioned in some work, but there still were uncertainties. If later on in the thread that was corrected, so stand I. I must confess that I didn't read more than the first post and that only fleetingly. I am kinda busy with college at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
And "recanted" is kind of a strong word, don't you think? Kawamori made similar statements about both versions of SDFM being like historical recountings of WWII in Animag (Issue 11, IIRC...but of course, I don't have the issue with me), but that was even further back, of course. But he held that view for at least ten years (the Animag interview being done in the late '80s) (so why would he change it?), and "parallel universe" seems like it leads to the same outcome, anyway: "Don't worry about continuity, we've got a whole bunch of different versions of the same events, blah blah blah." It could be that saying they're all parallel universes is just convenient shorthand for the same idea. Or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, besides him?

And anyway, neither version supports Crusader's idea of the TV series being real and the movie being in-universe.

(Personally, I like the "fiction" explanation MUCH better than the "Parallel universe" explanation, because it has the virtue of being rather unique. How many times have you heard the "parallel universe" explanation? Too many, I'll wager.)
Yeah, but the parallel universe things make sense. "It's all fiction in the fiction" does not, at least to me. And, yep, "recanted" may have been too strong a word, as both concepts may co-exist somewhat. In the end, it's all Kawamori who decides what's the real continuity. I am just seeing a lot of confusion down the line, with all the products which have come out lately for Frontier ( TV series, movie, light novels, manga, several manga tie-ins... ).

And I think it is better for discussion if continuities are separated. How else am I going to get my jollies declaring Ranka to be the worst person in the galaxy? Movie Ranka doesn't qualify for the title.
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Old 2010-11-15, 23:34   Link #877
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Well, since it's all pretty fresh and recent, I'm of course much more sensitive to it than with DYRL.
And of course, many people STILL get confused over SDFM TV vs. DYRL...

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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I wasn't trying to impugn Renato, but rather referencing his own words that the interview was mentioned in some work, but there still were uncertainties. If later on in the thread that was corrected, so stand I. I must confess that I didn't read more than the first post and that only fleetingly. I am kinda busy with college at the moment.
Oops, sorry.

And yeah...Macross Fun Net was, as far as I can tell, simply a really early official Macross website, mostly centered on Macross 7 (since that's what was new at the time). The had a few giveaways, though, like the "Macross 7 Galaxy Fun Net CD" (a little audio drama CD single). But I'd imagine that it was pretty good for 1997. IIRC, it was replaced by macross.co.jp by 2001 or 2002.


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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Yeah, but the parallel universe things make sense. "It's all fiction in the fiction" does not, at least to me. And, yep, "recanted" may have been too strong a word, as both concepts may co-exist somewhat. In the end, it's all Kawamori who decides what's the real continuity. I am just seeing a lot of confusion down the line, with all the products which have come out lately for Frontier ( TV series, movie, light novels, manga, several manga tie-ins... ).
I think it's confusing any way you look at it. Again, I like the "fiction within fiction" account because, first, it's unique (as far as I know), and second, it's a rather elegant way of saying, "Just repeat to yourself, 'it's just a show, I should really just relax.'" Plus, I like the idea there IS a real story out there, we've just never seen it (and never will). Like hearing variations without a theme. I'm always up for a little arty postmodernism with my giant robot action fests.

But again, that's me. If the parallel worlds explanation works better for you, go with it.

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And I think it is better for discussion if continuities are separated. How else am I going to get my jollies declaring Ranka to be the worst person in the galaxy? Movie Ranka doesn't qualify for the title.
Oh yeah...I'm all for keeping the continuities separated...unless the topic is advance made from TV series to movie. When I was a kid, I had a difficult-to-articulate theory about DYRL: that from a design standpoint, it was sequel to the TV series, even though it was a retelling in plot. All the characters were a couple of years older than they had been in the show, all the technology was slightly more advanced than it had been. I feel the same way about the False Diva: the Tornado Pack is slightly more advanced than the Super and Armored Packs from the show, Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...everything from a design standpoint seems like it's a few years AFTER the series ended...but the plot is essentially the same as the show. So there IS continuity (i.e. progression) between the series and the movie, just not on a plot level.

Does that make sense...?
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Old 2010-11-16, 02:09   Link #878
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Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Oh yeah...I'm all for keeping the continuities separated...unless the topic is advance made from TV series to movie. When I was a kid, I had a difficult-to-articulate theory about DYRL: that from a design standpoint, it was sequel to the TV series, even though it was a retelling in plot. All the characters were a couple of years older than they had been in the show, all the technology was slightly more advanced than it had been. I feel the same way about the False Diva: the Tornado Pack is slightly more advanced than the Super and Armored Packs from the show, Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...everything from a design standpoint seems like it's a few years AFTER the series ended...but the plot is essentially the same as the show. So there IS continuity (i.e. progression) between the series and the movie, just not on a plot level.

Does that make sense...?
Well, it's an interesting viewpoint. It kinda works better with me if the movies are being in-universe productions, since such movies would normally use the current tech-equipment,as to grab the viewers attention. But it's all in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 2010-11-16, 07:55   Link #879
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... Sheryl's stage show relies on even more sophisticated hologram technology than we saw in the show...
I think that's only because they had a bigger budget and CG technology has advanced more.
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Old 2010-11-16, 14:03   Link #880
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I think that's only because they had a bigger budget and CG technology has advanced more.
Well, sure...but isn't the same true for a lot of the advances shown in DYRL? They could afford to animate glowing clothes and drinks, or cars on the ceiling, and so they did: in the process making the DYRL technology level higher than SDFM TV.
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