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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 7 Rating
Perfect 10 25 23.58%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 31.13%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 19 17.92%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 16.04%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 4.72%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 2.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.94%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.94%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.89%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-11-15, 07:16   Link #61
Kamonichan
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Hmmm. I never picked up on whether Shikkoku is male or female, but yes, it would be odd for the Queen of Nightmares to go back in time to get closer to herself.
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Old 2010-11-15, 08:20   Link #62
Kanon
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My impressions are the same as most people's, it seems: excellent first half in huge part thanks to Lady Kuroneko, shitty second half.

Hearing Hanazawa Kana and Taketatsu Aya imitate each other's characters was very fun, they both did a great job. Kirino and Kuroneko's interaction are always a delight to watch. The fact the characters they based on one another ended up suffering a horrible fate in both of their novels was just hilarious
For the first time since the first episode (I think?), I started to like Kirino again. Her over-excitement while watching Meruru was adorable and oddly endearing.

Unfortunately, the second half quickly reminded me why I dislike her so much. As someone said in another thread, the problem with her that she's 99.9% tsun and only 0.1% dere. That makes it very hard for me to like her. I have no idea why I should even like her in the first place: she is selfish, bratty and patronizing. Her only redeeming quality so far is being a super cute otaku - not that being an otaku is a redeeming quality - but it looks like the author expects us to relate to her only thanks to that, and it's not working for me except during some rare moments like in this episode. So all that's left is being super cute, which is not nearly enough for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But what cracked me the most was the seiyuu choice for Meruru: the only and unique Yukarin at our service. It seems the scripters (or the author of the LN?) know well the memes spawned with Nanoha and made a ultimately obvious reference to the starlight breaker and "YOU GONNA BE BEFRIENDED! *MAGICAL BEAM OF DEATH* *B00M*" stuff
This episode also confirms Kuroneko is made of win, whereas Kirino doesn't exactly shine beyond her siscon infatuation.
I kept thinking about Nanoha but I didn't realize Meruru was voiced by Yukarin
They sure did their homework. & yes, Kuroneko is made of pure win.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:27   Link #63
Mentar
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I find it both puzzling and amusing at the same time that those people who accuse Kirino of being a boring "Mary Sue" actually hate her all the more.

Folks, that's the whole POINT behind her character. She's the classic overachiever who at the same time has serious issues with her interpersonal skills. Even the author herself said that she finds Kirino insufferable and the least likable out of all characters

The way I see it, Oreimo is a character study first and foremost. And from this perspective, I consider it exceptionally good. As someone who also had a little sister 3.5 years younger than me, I can attest that several details ring oh so very true to me (while others are obviously different).

If you can't enjoy this central aspect of the show, you probably won't be satisfied. But I'm perfectly okay with content and pace as-is. I'd just love to see a 2-cour version of it, to reach the latest book.

A solid 8/10 from me.
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Old 2010-11-15, 09:54   Link #64
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Best moment for me was the part when Kirino found out that Kyousuke watched Porn movies on her laptop he doesn't know how to erase data
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:14   Link #65
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I was very impressed with the first half of this episode. The writers for this really did their homework, as a lot of the arguments and statements made in the first half look like something that could have been taken right off an Anime Suki discussion thread.

I also like how Meruru appears to be a homage to Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, with the same theme of "friendship through superior firepower", and 'sketchy' transformation scenes (as Kyousuke noted).

I agree with the consensus on the first half being very good.


The second half... honestly, if you take away the blood relationship of the two main characters, the dynamic between them reminds me an awful lot of the dynamic between Haruhi and Kyon. You have the same domineering all-around impressive female treating the "average" male lead like her slave and being very attached to him. You have Kyousuke reacting to Kirino's more extreme or weird requests exactly the same way Kyon would react to those of Haruhi. Honestly, the main thing that the second half of this episode made me think of was the filming of Haruhi's movie in Haruhi 2009.

Kirino's overall personality is a lot like Haruhi's, and I'm starting to see a lot of Kyon in Kyousuke.


Overall, it was an entertaining episode, but this anime is becoming very hard to take seriously. I can still find great value in it as pure comedy and spoof, but Kirino's character (and her relationship with Kyousuke) is really breaking suspension of disbelief now. She's now reached a degree of multifaceted expertise and unreal time management that is comparable to Batman.

8/10 is my final rating for this.
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:32   Link #66
keroro gunsou
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
My impressions are the same as most people's, it seems: excellent first half in huge part thanks to Lady Kuroneko, shitty second half.
I love Kuroneko so much, love her silent character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I was very impressed with the first half of this episode. The writers for this really did their homework, as a lot of the arguments and statements made in the first half look like something that could have been taken right off an Anime Suki discussion thread.

I also like how Meruru appears to be a homage to Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, with the same theme of "friendship through superior firepower", and 'sketchy' transformation scenes (as Kyousuke noted).

I agree with the consensus on the first half being very good.


The second half... honestly, if you take away the blood relationship of the two main characters, the dynamic between them reminds me an awful lot of the dynamic between Haruhi and Kyon. You have the same domineering all-around impressive female treating the "average" male lead like her slave and being very attached to him. You have Kyousuke reacting to Kirino's more extreme or weird requests exactly the same way Kyon would react to those of Haruhi. Honestly, the main thing that the second half of this episode made me think of was the filming of Haruhi's movie in Haruhi 2009.

Kirino's overall personality is a lot like Haruhi's, and I'm starting to see a lot of Kyon in Kyousuke.


Overall, it was an entertaining episode, but this anime is becoming very hard to take seriously. I can still find great value in it as pure comedy and spoof, but Kirino's character (and her relationship with Kyousuke) is really breaking suspension of disbelief now. She's now reached a degree of multifaceted expertise and unreal time management that is comparable to Batman.

8/10 is my final rating for this.
I feel this anime is rushing the development of the story & the characters.
And I agree with your post, Kirino reminds me Haruhi. But they are brother & sister
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:39   Link #67
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I'm the only who think Kuroneko and Kirino will end up together?
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Old 2010-11-15, 10:58   Link #68
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Kuroneko > all. Make the show about her already. I usually loathe fanfics, but I'd so read hers. And I can sure feel her pain when arguing with anime fans like Kirino.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Unfortunately, the second half quickly reminded me why I dislike her so much. As someone said in another thread, the problem with her that she's 99.9% tsun and only 0.1% dere. That makes it very hard for me to like her. I have no idea why I should even like her in the first place: she is selfish, bratty and patronizing. Her only redeeming quality so far is being a super cute otaku - not that being an otaku is a redeeming quality - but it looks like the author expects us to relate to her only thanks to that, and it's not working for me except during some rare moments like in this episode. So all that's left is being super cute, which is not nearly enough for me.
I know, right? Damn those flawed and human characters. I mean if a character isn't a nice and exemplary human being, why should we care about them? It's not like it's possible for them to make the story interesting or entertaining if they're not nice or "dere", after all.
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:16   Link #69
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Quote:
Unfortunately, the second half quickly reminded me why I dislike her so much. As someone said in another thread, the problem with her that she's 99.9% tsun and only 0.1% dere. That makes it very hard for me to like her. I have no idea why I should even like her in the first place: she is selfish, bratty and patronizing. Her only redeeming quality so far is being a super cute otaku - not that being an otaku is a redeeming quality - but it looks like the author expects us to relate to her only thanks to that, and it's not working for me except during some rare moments like in this episode. So all that's left is being super cute, which is not nearly enough for me.
Isn't that what a real imouto is like? Annoying, self-centered, etc, yet you still like her b/c she's, well, your imouto and she's cute...

I mean, no one tell you to like Kirino in the first place. I actually find that Kirino in this few episodes is finally Kirino (aka tsun 9 dere 1) before [mod edit: reference to future novel content removed]

And IMO, the anime already cut out some of the absurdness of Kirino's novel...

Quote:
I also like how Meruru appears to be a homage to Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, with the same theme of "friendship through superior firepower", and 'sketchy' transformation scenes (as Kyousuke noted).
Meruru is voiced by Tamura Yukari for a reason

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2010-11-15 at 19:11. Reason: removed novel hint
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:19   Link #70
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I know, right? Damn those flawed and human characters. I mean if a character isn't a nice and exemplary human being, why should we care about them? It's not like it's possible for them to make the story interesting or entertaining if they're not nice or "dere", after all.
That's not the problem. If my thoughts are like Kanon's, the real problem with Kirino isn't the fact she displays an obnoxious personality: it is the fact her whole personality is -only- made (or shown) as obnoxious towards Kyousuke and the "otaku side" characters.
You don't need a Yamato Nadeshiko to make a female character likable. But regarding a flawed character, you have to "compensate" the deal a fair bit, and so far, it is really hard to sympathize with Kirino considering her only "redeeming" traits are... her extreme tendency to react to moe.

I personally don't want Kirino to suddenly act like Manami. However, it is starting to be hard to follow Kyousuke's hardship without any change, since Kirino gets everything from him as granted (the way she expects him to pay that expensive accessory out of the blue was another proof here).
So many times he saved her hide, and still nothing that indicates a proper gratitude or "warming up", so it is hard not to consider Kyousuke as a masochist borderline worst than MM's Tarou, mentally speaking.
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:31   Link #71
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I operate under the assumption that there MUST be a reason why she acts the way she is. I don't find her really annoying or obnoxious per se, but I'm left to make assumptions in a relative vacuum. Having a sister of my own with a large age gap I'm used to semi-hostile treatment and relationships even if we're usually civil towards each other. As I said before, it's within context, and within context that's really the only way for me to really understand her character and her personality.

Right now all I see is that "she is who she is", but we know that no person is just as plain as what you see of them. There's always something there than simple hostility. If there's a reason they have a strained relationship, I think it's time we see it considering now she's pretty much tying up her issues with her friends and family. It's halfway through the season and assuming again this is all we get then I think we deserve to see the conflict between brother and sister. This IS the central conflict and plot of the story right?
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:35   Link #72
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I like Ore no Imouto a lot, but I feel that pacing is a problem to which there is no solution. It's hard to consolidate a 6 Volume (and on-going) light novel into a 12-episode anime without losing a lot. The first half and second half of each episode are non-linear chapters from the novels - ie. they're skipping around a ton so the flow just isn't there.

There is a ton of internal dialogue in the light novel which is critical to character growth but there is no way to convey all that in a 30 minute show.

Toradora is a great anime in my opinion and one of the most faithful adaptions of the light novel, but if you read it you'll see a massive amount of important internal dialogue that you can't just dump in the middle of an anime - the format doesn't work. One can only imagine how much internal dialogue is involved in a story with this kind of subject matter.
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:39   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But regarding a flawed character, you have to "compensate" the deal a fair bit
No. No, you don't. As Kuroneko said in this episode, there is no "right" way to write a story. Or a character, in this case.

Kirino is a 14 year old teenage girl. So she acts like one. You don't have to sympathize with her. The author clearly acknowledges her flaws, so he/she's obviously not asking you to, either.

It is because she is like that that the show's interesting and actually sets itself apart from typical shows of this nature in the first place. If the show was about a normal sister who gets along fine with her brother and treats him nicely there would be no plot in the first place.

Honestly, it baffles me that people, especially anime fans who have probably watched countless series before, still can't realize that fictional characters aren't always designed to be likable people. And if you can't appreciate characters for being accurate depictions of real human beings, thus, as Mentar pointed out, being the object of a character study, which would be the main draw of this story, then why would you even watch this show? It was clear from the start what Kirino was like. I don't see why you've stuck with the show up to this point since clearly you're gonna be bitching about her being obnoxious every week. When it is the entire point of her character and were she any other way this show would lose its raison d'être.
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:45   Link #74
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This episode get a 5/10, below average, and I wanted to rate it even lower.

The show's humor has gotten stale quite fast, the character development has slowed to a snail's pace, and once again, I do not appreciate all these hints of wincest.

First of all the episode felt very disjointed in its presentation. It went form the merry life of Kirino and Kuroneko to this novel "data" plotline, which just gave the impression that they were trying to stuff as much storyline as possible in this episode. In other words, episode felt cramped.

Furthermore, now that Kirino's friend and family know about her hobby, what is the next issue they are going to target? Sure, we can follow around this bitchy sister around as she explores the anime world, but when we have something like Genshiken out there, what incentive do I have to continue this show if not for a more mediocre presentation of the same topic?

I was under the impression that this show was about two things: A brother and sister salvaging their sibling relationship through the accidental discovery of her "strange" hobby, and second, how the sister confronts the world that rejects her hobby.

Sure, she had a confrontontation with her father, and her friend, in which her brother prostrates himself to help her, and then we get a "thank you for now, but I'll be a bitch again later" tsundere reaction. But if that is the limit of this show, I'm simply going to be left disappointed.

For one thing it has honestly gotten tiresome how "tsundere" Kirino acts in front of everyone. Every scene now is just her bossing her brother around and acting like an attention freak for some reason that they're intentionally keeping under the surface. I'm sorry, but someone who has practically prostrated themselves does not deserve such treatment. If there's a reason we don't know, stop beating around the bush and get to it.

I realize this is based on a light novel, but the way they're presenting the anime at the very least, makes the plot seem slow and dragged on. If you're a 1 cour show, you need to do better to quicken your plot.

The problem here is the show is actually a bit TOO fast paced. The main reason that this episode feel disjointed is precisely because the anime skipped the entire main conflict in volume 3, assuming that next episode is about making anime. (original material if true.)


While I love the adaption, the one complain I do have is that this series suffers from the same stuff that plague most other Light Novel adaption and that is too few episodes for the material they try to cover and at same time they try to squeeze in some original ideas to separate themselves from the source material.

But on the other hand, most anime adaption from LN has generally garnered good reviews mainly because they have tier plots and most of time captures the essence of the source material and cause viewers to want more. (ie: buy the original LN)

As for Genshiken comparison, while I loved that series (both anime adaption and manga oiginal), that series doesn't really cover ACG world as deeply as Oreimo Light Novel did, especially from the dojin-creator/hard-core otaku view. Unfortunately that is also the biggest area that were cut from the adaption so far.....
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:48   Link #75
Bombo
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I feel sorry for kyou when he listening their stories
First half 10/10
Second half 6/10 kirino bad girl want to minami know where they are XD.
I LOVE your speech kureneko before the OP XD
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:53   Link #76
Saturn Beaver
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Like some of you, I too like the first half and dislike the second half, Kirino is really getting too much for me. I mean, I know that we're supposed to be find her annoying and insufferable like the author did, but still...fact is that she's my least favorite character and it irks me that I have to see her most often, being the main character and all.

I think the reason I dislike her is, well, her obnoxious behavior just crossed the line. Even for someone with interpersonal problems, she's too hypocritical (berating his brother for looking up porn while she herself forces him to play eroge) and selfish (pretty much anything has to suit her whims) that even she must realizes that other people find that annoying. But what really annoys me is that almost no one called her out for this; sure, Kyousuke sometimes scolds her but at the end of the day, she never get comeuppance for the problems she herself cause, leaving him to suffer the consequences.

Like MeoTwister said, I really need to know what causes this hostile behavior in the first place. After all, it's easier to sympathize with someone if we know what causes to become that way (for example, Ayase). For LN-readers, can you tell me through spoiler box or PM, not the content but just whether it's already being explained already there? If so, what volume and is it possible that the anime will show this?

On a lighter note, I rather enjoy the Maschera ending, shame that it's too short. And the title for the next is so meta even Ayasaki Hayate says Daaamn!
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:57   Link #77
ID555
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Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver View Post

Even for someone with interpersonal problems, she's too hypocritical (berating his brother for looking up porn while she herself forces him to play eroge) ...

I'd side with Kirino on that one since I think she just graduated from 2D to 3D porn while checking out Kyousuke's internet history.... She's not going to find it pretty... and she didn't.
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Old 2010-11-15, 11:58   Link #78
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No. No, you don't. As Kuroneko said in this episode, there is no "right" way to write a story. Or a character, in this case.
Why did I put the quotes for that word, you think? That was a figure of speech. Furthermore, taking Kuroneko's comment in this context doesn't work well.
The subject was "why people don't like Kirino", not like "why the show/character is bad or so". So far, I don't think there was a claim she is a bad character, but the term was definitely "unlikable" which is an appreciation that can be made, since it is an opinion after all, not a fact.
Quote:
Kirino is a 14 year old teenage girl. So she acts like one. You don't have to sympathize with her. The author clearly acknowledges her flaws, so he/she's obviously not asking you to, either.
Like I said, the whole deal was to explain why it is hard to like Kirino, stating exactly she should not be a Yamato Nadeshiko or whatever Mary Sue. I never dictated the series has to change that right there right now either.
That being said, you have to realize that a story must have a certain amount of traits that can make the readers/watchers relate with the characters. For a series that is characters driven, it will be a challenge for a series to actually appeal the public if the characters aren't likable. Luckily, only Kirino is an issue (and before you ask, I see Ayase as flawed, but doesn't mean I dislike her. See the point?).
Quote:
It is because she is like that that the show's interesting and actually sets itself apart from typical shows of this nature in the first place. If the show was about a normal sister who gets along fine with her brother and treats him nicely there would be no plot in the first place.
You seem to assume that there is no way the show can be interesting if Kirino were a tad more considerate. And I believe it can be subtly different without being dramatically denatured, what gives? Did I say I expect her to be like Manami? Quite the contrary.
I don't see her turning serviable or even polite for that matter. That said, the simple fact there is no progress or evolution whatsoever is annoying, for lack of better words. It is stagnant no matter how you look at it. In fine, even the verbal abuse can remain like that, if, I insist, "if" Kirino displays a subtle change of heart. And no, I don't envision a tsundere trend.

Please read again my post.
Quote:
Honestly, it baffles me that people, especially anime fans who have probably watched countless series before, still can't realize that fictional characters aren't always designed to be likable people.
It baffles me that you think people to have only likable characters as their expectations. How do you expect to have villains like that?

Again, you are completely missing the point of the discussion.
Quote:
It was clear from the start what Kirino was like. I don't see why you've stuck with the show up to this point since clearly you're gonna be bitching about her being obnoxious every week. When it is the entire point of her character and were she any other way this show would lose its raison d'être.
I'm stuck with the show because there are other characters that aren't Kirino. I don't see why you can suddenly expect me to stop watching this show or not.
If you can bear with her, fine by me, but there is nothing that force me to adopt the same attitude than yours. Please do not take your own take of the series as a fact, thanks.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2010-11-15 at 12:12.
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Old 2010-11-15, 12:00   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver View Post
Like some of you, I too like the first half and dislike the second half, Kirino is really getting too much for me. I mean, I know that we're supposed to be find her annoying and insufferable like the author did, but still...fact is that she's my least favorite character and it irks me that I have to see her most often, being the main character and all.

I think the reason I dislike her is, well, her obnoxious behavior just crossed the line. Even for someone with interpersonal problems, she's too hypocritical (berating his brother for looking up porn while she herself forces him to play eroge) and selfish (pretty much anything has to suit her whims) that even she must realizes that other people find that annoying. But what really annoys me is that almost no one called her out for this; sure, Kyousuke sometimes scolds her but at the end of the day, she never get comeuppance for the problems she herself cause, leaving him to suffer the consequences.

Like MeoTwister said, I really need to know what causes this hostile behavior in the first place. After all, it's easier to sympathize with someone if we know what causes to become that way (for example, Ayase). For LN-readers, can you tell me through spoiler box or PM, not the content but just whether it's already being explained already there? If so, what volume and is it possible that the anime will show this?

On a lighter note, I rather enjoy the Maschera ending, shame that it's too short. And the title for the next is so meta even Ayasaki Hayate says Daaamn!



The porn on notebook was such a great event, too bad they cut that whole part out. That was the original reason used by Kirino to get Kyosuke to take her to Nastu-Comi and the event was more than Kirino discovering Kyosuke watching usual porn....
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Old 2010-11-15, 12:02   Link #80
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Folks, that's the whole POINT behind her character. She's the classic overachiever who at the same time has serious issues with her interpersonal skills. Even the author herself said that she finds Kirino insufferable and the least likable out of all characters
Oh, I didn't know that. If that's fully intended, that's absolutely fine then. Pretty risky to focus on such an insufferable heroine, but it could be interesting, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I know, right? Damn those flawed and human characters. I mean if a character isn't a nice and exemplary human being, why should we care about them? It's not like it's possible for them to make the story interesting or entertaining if they're not nice or "dere", after all.
It's perfectly possible for a character to be deeply flawed, human AND still be likeable. Don't make it sound like I can only like perfect characters, please. I didn't say anything about Kirino's impact in the story, I just explained my reason for disliking her, that's all. I'm truly sorry for expecting the main heroine to be likeable. Of course, no one is telling me to like her, but I enjoy a story more when I like the main characters and can relate to their problems. Of course, that does mean the story can't be interesting if I don't, huh.

I shouldn't have used the "Tsun" and "dere" example, what I meant is that it'd be nice if she stopped acting like a bitch all the time and showed another (kinder) side of herself (I'm sure she isn't as obnoxious as she seems). And it's not like I HATE her, as I said above, I find her entertaining when she's around the right person. What irks me the most is the way she treats Kyousuke. I suppose he's also to blame, since he's letting himself be led around by the nose by her. It's admirable to help his sister like he did, but he should keep in mind a brother isn't supposed to be a lapdog. It's also no good for her to keep relying on her brother so much. She's fourteen, not six.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Isn't that what a real imouto is like? Annoying, self-centered, etc, yet you still like her b/c she's, well, your imouto and she's cute...
Maybe she reminds me too much of my own little sister (thankfully, she's not THAT bad)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's not the problem. If my thoughts are like Kanon's, the real problem with Kirino isn't the fact she displays an obnoxious personality: it is the fact her whole personality is -only- made (or shown) as obnoxious towards Kyousuke and the "otaku side" characters.
You don't need a Yamato Nadeshiko to make a female character likable. But regarding a flawed character, you have to "compensate" the deal a fair bit, and so far, it is really hard to sympathize with Kirino considering her only "redeeming" traits are... her extreme tendency to react to moe.
That's exactly it. I don't want her to be perfect, I just wish her personality had at least one positive trait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
Honestly, it baffles me that people, especially anime fans who have probably watched countless series before, still can't realize that fictional characters aren't always designed to be likable people. And if you can't appreciate characters for being accurate depictions of real human beings, thus, as Mentar pointed out, being the object of a character study, which would be the main draw of this story, then why would you even watch this show? It was clear from the start what Kirino was like. I don't see why you've stuck with the show up to this point since clearly you're gonna be bitching about her being obnoxious every week. When it is the entire point of her character and were she any other way this show would lose its raison d'être.
It wasn't exactly clear, no. In fact, I thought Kirino was very likeable in the first episode, that coupled with the title "My sister can't be this cute", I was actually fooled into thinking she was going to be one of those nice little sisters I love so much. My loss. Now that I know exactly what to expect, you can be sure I won't complain to much.
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