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Old 2010-11-19, 00:22   Link #81
Shining Celebi
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If Anko, a lone special Jounin from Konoha could deal with Kabuto - even hold him off for a little bit in a fight - then the war is completely meaningless and stupid. Send in two or three more Jounin and boom, Kabuto's dead and Akatsuki is down to Madara. Kabuto has to be strong enough to defeat Anko easily and off panel, or the "war" will just be a slaughterfest. This is Kabuto and Madara (and Zetsu I guess) vs the entire world.

Not only that, Kakashi admitted in Part 1 Kabuto was better than him. Given Edo Tensei, other jutsu, and his transformation, he's surely surpassed Orochimaru in at least some ways. Remember how quick Orochimaru vs Anko was? It was exactly as long. With the same techniques. Also remember how quick Orochimaru vs Kakashi was? Kakashi peed his pants in terror.

Plus, if we were going to see even most of these possible fights, the manga would be 1200 chapters. I'm thankful the story is moving on.

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Originally Posted by ZeroForever View Post
I'm just waiting for naruto's mom to be amoung the undead jinchuriki and for all of them to some how go tail beast mode despite not having the beasts in them at this point.

though seriously I'm face palming at how retardedly broken they decided to make the technique with the it keeps going even if the user is dead... I mean come on seriously...
The fact that killing the caster accomplishes nothing (...when has it for any summon anyway? The elder frog didn't desummon when Jiraiya died and it looked to be like Enma hung around for a bit after the Third died) and the zombies are invincible should come as no surprise, considering this was revealed 400+ chapters ago.

Edo Tensei requires a human sacrifice.

If human sacrifice (Minato) can seal away and stop the most powerful demon alive, bring life to inanimate puppets (Chiyo), or make you into an invincible killer (Hidan) I can't understand why people have a problem with it summoning invincible zombies.

I mean, it's a secret forbidden technique that only three people (as far as we know) ever knew. It violates the laws of nature. It's the most evil, vile jutsu Kankurou has ever heard of.

...If you don't get some massive benefit from breaking natural laws and sacrificing lives...why do it? Evil is always stronger because they are willing to gain power by breaking these laws. It's just like Voldemort and the Horcruxes, or the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars, or stealing the energy of plants in animals in Eragon, etc. If you're willing to do something evil, you're going to get major power from it. That's the deal. It's older than time.

I don't expect to see jinchuuriki powers from the jinchuuriki. But apparently having a demon sealed inside you increases your own natural chakra capacity. Has Gaara's fighting style really changed without Shukaku? If Naruto didn't have the kyuubi, would Kakuzu have noticed? The jinchuuriki should all still be strong without their demons.

Edo Tensei isn't broken, or out of left field. It fits all the laws of the Narutoverse and it's a pretty cool jutsu. I'm glad Kishimoto brought it back.
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Old 2010-11-19, 00:29   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post
Personally I hope Sakrua or Neji dies. Not because I don't like them, but because having them die would take creative effort that has been missing in the naruto seires as of late.
One of the pillars in Naruto's plot is the "New Generation", even Konoha's itself is building with that creed:
- The new leafs (new generation) who are protected by the old leafs, who eventually will die and the cycle will repeat over and over.
- The chat between Asuma and Shikaku and Shikamaru about Konoha's Kings (Konoha's children= new generation).

So, i think that Kishi will kill most of the old generation, to me if Neji or Hinata aren't capable of defeat Hisashi, the one who will protect them (and eventually die) is Hiashi, same thing Shikaku, Inoichi, Choza, Kurotsuchi's dad, even Raikage, Onoki...

This war will have as outcome the rise of the new generation, obviously with Naruto on the lead... and some old ninjas (Kakashi, Tsunade perhaps) as advisers.
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Old 2010-11-19, 01:03   Link #83
NoLongerSane
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Originally Posted by Sharfan View Post
Oh, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but one of my friends made a suggestion for what Itachi could have given Naruto, today. Tsukyomi (possibly along with a sharingan?). Just think about it, how much sense it would make if that was his 'gift'.
I was thinking about this. If anything, Itachi might have given Naruto access to the Totsuka Sword that he used against Oro.
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Old 2010-11-19, 04:27   Link #84
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Originally Posted by NoLongerSane View Post
I was thinking about this. If anything, Itachi might have given Naruto access to the Totsuka Sword that he used against Oro.
Considering he's gonna end up fighting Sasuke, who now has a super powered and infinate Mangekyo Sharingan....he's gonna need some kind of mega weapon. It would mesh well with the new chakra cloak as well
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Old 2010-11-19, 07:58   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post

Personally I hope Sakrua or Neji dies. Not because I don't like them, but because having them die would take creative effort that has been missing in the naruto seires as of late.
LOL, no it wouldnt. Admit it, yah want em to die!
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Old 2010-11-19, 09:03   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
So, i think that Kishi will kill most of the old generation, to me if Neji or Hinata aren't capable of defeat Hisashi, the one who will protect them (and eventually die) is Hiashi, same thing Shikaku, Inoichi, Choza, Kurotsuchi's dad, even Raikage, Onoki...

This war will have as outcome the rise of the new generation, obviously with Naruto on the lead... and some old ninjas (Kakashi, Tsunade perhaps) as advisers.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. What I don't want is predictable matchups like Hyuga vs older Hyuga, or some team vs their dead sensei. What I want is something UNpredictable to happen. In the war Kakashi fought in, kids younger than sakura and neji died all the time, in fact, realistically they would constitute the largest mortality rate considering their inexperience.

The King was the unborn children of konoha, not the teenagers. As long as rebuilding is possible, you can kill any one character who doesn't directly impact that goal.
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Old 2010-11-19, 09:13   Link #87
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LOL, no it wouldnt. Admit it, yah want em to die!
I admit that I think Sakura is useless even with super strength and phoenix downs, but Neji and rock lee are my favorite characters. The neglect and underdevelopment of their characters has left me a little disappointed. Some characters you can leave alone like Itachi, shikamaru, Shino, and Hinata. Some characters you can't like neji vs the green beast. That's the kind of situation that should be hashed out to validate Naruto's perspective and actions.
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Old 2010-11-19, 09:51   Link #88
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What I want is something UNpredictable to happen. In the war Kakashi fought in, kids younger than sakura and neji died all the time, in fact, realistically they would constitute the largest mortality rate considering their inexperience.
Even the unpredictable things to us, are predictable, you have Anko's squad (they're not adults, they're in their 20's or even less) and they died miserably. When the Kyuubi attacked you can see how Kurenai's dad and other adults where keeping an eye on the kids. The characters you mentioned are plot protected, you have Hinata's example, she survived Pain!. You will have lots of casualties, but you will not have a Nawaki (Tsunade's brother). Even Kakashi proofs that when he "died" protecting Chouji from Pain, not mentioning Chouza.

Before a kid dies, there will be an adult. But i would understand if one or two Naruto's friend die in the war, but not more than that.
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Old 2010-11-19, 09:53   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Kotengu View Post
I admit that I think Sakura is useless even with super strength and phoenix downs, but Neji and rock lee are my favorite characters. The neglect and underdevelopment of their characters has left me a little disappointed. Some characters you can leave alone like Itachi, shikamaru, Shino, and Hinata. Some characters you can't like neji vs the green beast. That's the kind of situation that should be hashed out to validate Naruto's perspective and actions.
That's the problem with Naruto, all these characters Kishi created had little to no development in Shippuden. Out of the 11 leaf ninjas, we really only saw Guy's team in action, and a little of Shikamarau's wit. Then all of a sudden, the war begins, and we're introduced to a bunch of jounins/kages from the other villages. These not so great characters had more stories stuffed into them than the 11 leaf jounins we used to love. So frankly speaking, whether any of the 11 members survives through this or not, it makes no difference to me, 'cause I don't know them well enough to care anymore.

Now that Zabuza and Haku are revived, I really don't know how they'd fit into the fight without getting instantly KOed by some nameless jounins. I mean they stayed dead for a long time, so it's hard to say that their jutsus evolved like the rest of the living ninjas.
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Old 2010-11-19, 10:25   Link #90
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I'm confused about Sai's brother. He's fighting them, but still has emotions.
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Old 2010-11-19, 10:50   Link #91
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I'm confused about Sai's brother. He's fighting them, but still has emotions.
Edo Tensei gives you control over the body, Kabuto intentionally is not taking control on their brains in order to mindf*ck their friends/lovers/family. That's why almost every one of them is able to speak and think freely but they can't control their bodies. In some point Kabuto will make them just killing machines.
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Old 2010-11-19, 11:52   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
I don't expect to see jinchuuriki powers from the jinchuuriki. But apparently having a demon sealed inside you increases your own natural chakra capacity. Has Gaara's fighting style really changed without Shukaku? If Naruto didn't have the kyuubi, would Kakuzu have noticed? The jinchuuriki should all still be strong without their demons.
i agree. i think kishimoto had somehow made it known that ninja who become jinchuuriki are chosen because they have "special" chakra when he told kushina's story. she was chosen because she was an uzumaki and the uzumaki are special, just like the kyuubi jinchuuriki before her and now her son naruto. not everyone can become a jinchuuriki. i think if we go back to gaara's story it was also said that among the jinchuuriki before him, his was the most successful union and there's a reason for it. it might mean that only he was strong enough to hold the ichibi in. gaara might have lost his jinchuuriki privileges but i believe he's still a pretty strong ninja. so past jinchuuriki like kushina and the others who were killed by the akatsuki could still hold their own in this war, with or without their bijuu.
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Old 2010-11-19, 13:13   Link #93
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it was also said that among the jinchuuriki before him, his was the most successful union and there's a reason for it. it might mean that only he was strong enough to hold the ichibi in.
Huh? Bee seems more successful to me. Ichibi desummons if Gaara is hit. Bee can't get hit at all. In sand village only, maybe.
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Old 2010-11-19, 15:05   Link #94
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I would compare Kabuto's magical transformation from a secondary evil character to a superpowered evil boss to Dr.Gero's transformation from some secondary evil scientist to the greatest evil genius. Since Kishimoto liked Dragon Ball so much. Both transformations happened off screen, obviously for plot reasons, however the possibility was always there. Both used the powers of different people. In Dr.Gero's case he took sample of the strongest warriors and combined all that with his super robot making skills, in Kabuto's case he took Orochimaru's heritage (the white snake power and the Edo Tensei and all the secret informations and who knows what else) and he uses the power of dead ninjas. The bit difference now is that Dr.Gero was killed by one of his creations, while Kabuto currently has won his battle against the cells of the white snake power, and seems to be in perfect control over his summons. But it might be that one or more of his summons will turn against him somehow (i suspect one will be Itachi), and if he is in a bad shape he might lose his control over his own monster body and just become a mindless monster.

Looking at Kabuto from this perspective makes me think that there's nothing to complain about how strong he suddenly became.

Also it's stupid to complain about Madara defeating Konan and Kabuto defeating Anko, and call Kishi sexist. Just remember that currenly these two guys are in war against the whole ninja world. How can anyone say that Konan and Anko didn't do a good job when they were up against a power that equals the power of the whole ninja world.
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Old 2010-11-19, 15:17   Link #95
matsunaga_hisahide
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Ha, I like Omoi more and more.

He´s the type that´s distracted easily and is a real pessimistic, looking like he wouldn´t want to do anything seeing as it would fail anyway.

But when he saw what they were doing with Sai/Sai´s Brother, he started to suddenly turn serious. He´ll kick some serious butts, I´m betting on that.

Kankurou won´t lose to Sasori a second time, especially with his buffed up puppets (or better said puppet)

The only one I´m wondering about is Deidara. I´d like to see a match between him and the Tsuchikage, ending with him killing the old man, but Deidara being killed by the Tsuchikage´s granddaughter, who once admired Deidara.

Though I like the whole resurrection idea now, I kinda hate how we´ll have to see them die again. Deidara, Zabusa, Sasori, Kakuzu...why do I have to watch you die again?
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Old 2010-11-19, 15:29   Link #96
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ha, i like omoi more and more.

He´s the type that´s distracted easily and is a real pessimistic, looking like he wouldn´t want to do anything seeing as it would fail anyway.

But when he saw what they were doing with sai/sai´s brother, he started to suddenly turn serious. He´ll kick some serious butts, i´m betting on that.

Kankurou won´t lose to sasori a second time, especially with his buffed up puppets (or better said puppet)

the only one i´m wondering about is deidara. I´d like to see a match between him and the tsuchikage, ending with him killing the old man, but deidara being killed by the tsuchikage´s granddaughter, who once admired deidara.

Though i like the whole resurrection idea now, i kinda hate how we´ll have to see them die again. Deidara, zabusa, sasori, kakuzu...why do i have to watch you die again?
omfg. There are other ravages of time fans beside me. We alone know the secret of the Edo Tensei Kabuto used to frighten Madara...

Spoiler:


...But, I don't think the Alliance ambush team should be able to win - maybe only escape. Deidara alone should be too much for them to deal with, especially immortal. A mortal Deidara nearly destroyed the entire Sand. I mean, even Sasuke couldn't survive without running away in the end. But if they lose, it will show just how powerful the zombies are and how Madara and Kabuto have a real chance of winning the war. It's hard to say with Sasori, since we don't know if he still has any puppets, or the ninjas we know nothing about.
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Old 2010-11-19, 16:40   Link #97
herculan
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I would compare Kabuto's magical transformation from a secondary evil character to a superpowered evil boss to Dr.Gero's transformation from some secondary evil scientist to the greatest evil genius. Since Kishimoto liked Dragon Ball so much. Both transformations happened off screen, obviously for plot reasons, however the possibility was always there. Both used the powers of different people. In Dr.Gero's case he took sample of the strongest warriors and combined all that with his super robot making skills, in Kabuto's case he took Orochimaru's heritage (the white snake power and the Edo Tensei and all the secret informations and who knows what else) and he uses the power of dead ninjas. The bit difference now is that Dr.Gero was killed by one of his creations, while Kabuto currently has won his battle against the cells of the white snake power, and seems to be in perfect control over his summons. But it might be that one or more of his summons will turn against him somehow (i suspect one will be Itachi), and if he is in a bad shape he might lose his control over his own monster body and just become a mindless monster.
Kabuto being killed would make a lot of sense indeed now that you mention it..
-First of all because it happend like that in DBZ and kishi loved dbz like you said..
-BUT SECOND OF ALL!! the fact that kishi took the effort of explaining that the zombies stay alive when the summoner has been killed.
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Old 2010-11-19, 17:37   Link #98
matsunaga_hisahide
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Everyone who calls himself a manga lover and hasn´t read or at least tried Ravages of Time is just lying to himself. Really. Go read it. Everyone. Now.

But enough with that, now that you mention it...

Kabuto is the source of my interest for Naruto. With him gone, I don´t know if I really want to read it any further. He´s the secret factor that still keeps me on my toes, seeing as I don´t know, what to make of him and his actions.

He could easily interfere with Madara´s plans, he could´ve crushed Sasuke a long time ago, had plenty chances to kill Naruto...practically he knows how to counter and fight anyone of our main characters/villains.

Also he seems to be some kind of psychopath/has fun while killing people, but still he helped Naruto and the kids during the Forest of Death exam, even though it wasn´t necessary for him to do so seeing as Orochimaru´s plan would´ve still worked, he healed Hinata and thus saved her life, he healed Sakura´s Four Tails inflicted wounds and saved her life with some shady excuse, he gave Naruto informations on the Akatsuki even though he later allied himself with them and Madara and in all of his fights, even though he´s on Kakashi´s, no even Tsuande´s level, in all of his fights, he never really got serious.

So for a villain, he´s a strange one.
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Old 2010-11-19, 18:34   Link #99
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^just a quick fyi, Ravages of Time is a manhua, not a manga.

That being said, I am surprised there is so little discussion cocnernign the start of official action in the war. Literally in the first pages of conflict, and we already have at least 2 friendly casualties, possibly more. So, already there is more death here than in all of Kubo's War (j/k) .
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Old 2010-11-19, 22:03   Link #100
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post
It's hard to say with Sasori, since we don't know if he still has any puppets, or the ninjas we know nothing about.
We see now that he has the ability to take control of still-living ninja's bodies. That might be even more dangerous than using actual puppets. It makes the enemy hesitate then forces them to choose between defending themselves or not harming their allies. Sasori can still prepare any ninjas he kills to be actual puppets afterward. Let's not forget his one-scratch-and-you-die poison either, which only a handful of medical-nin talented enough to heal. And he doesn't have a big ass exposed heart to instant K.O. him anymore. So yeah. He is still very powerful.

Too bad the 3rd Kazekage puppet was destroyed though.


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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Literally in the first pages of conflict, and we already have at least 2 friendly casualties, possibly more. So, already there is more death here than in all of Kubo's War (j/k) .
you may be kidding, but that's completely true

Kishi did introduce a ton of fodder characters though.
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