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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 15 14.15%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 11 10.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 19.81%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 14.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 14.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 9.43%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.83%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 3.77%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 3.77%
1 out of 10 : Painful 8 7.55%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-11-22, 09:38   Link #81
velvet
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
This episode seriously offends the bakuman fan in me
I'm not really a fan of bakuman, but knowing the struggle for a story to be adapted into an anime, this episode bothered me a lot.
That aside, Kuroneko dazzled me pretty good this episode. I know it took a considerable strength to accept and admit the ugliness within you (the jealousy, the relief people get seeing others got hurt), and to the point of making even Kyousuke realized it.
The first half was a really turn off for me, for the aforementioned reason, but some have said that these arc is ended(?), hopefully it continued to be charming in the rest of its episodes. As for me, I'm hoping for more Kuroneko now thanks to this little discovery.
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Old 2010-11-22, 09:43   Link #82
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Kirino was soooo annoying in this episode... Was quite painful to watch actually. Fortunately Kuroneko was there and saved some of the episode.
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Old 2010-11-22, 10:28   Link #83
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It's almost strangely fitting that the most rational and in-control character in the entire series aside from the parents would sum up the entire problem with Kirino, and the show itself in particular, in one straight-faced yet passionate monologue.

Too many questions, not enough answers.

This was a perfect time for reality to finally bite Kirino in the ass and give her some perspective on her actions and intentions, which makes it suck that Kyousuke had to bail her out once again. On the other hand, it gave Kuroneko the perfect opportunity to sum everything up which I really, really hope would finally get tackled with the final life counseling event, which I assume is the final arc of the show. Kirino really needs to get jacked down from her high horse and made to see life and reality from the eyes of others. I was thinking that I should have been offended that things are going her way given the way she acts but hey, c'est la vie.

I do really hope that Kyousuke takes to heart what she said in the meeting to make him think just why he really does what he does, and to ask himself why Kirino is the way she is. If this episode succeeded in anything more than annoying me with Kirino and Kyousuke, it's that it verbalized most of everything I've been asking myself when this show started. Kuroneko was probably the first one to actively wonder why in the hell Kirino is the way she is, and maybe now Kyousuke will be forced to ask the same questions himself. As the representative extension of the viewer, Kyousuke's participation in the matter will hopefully allow us to learn and understand the way Kirino's mind works.

Returning to Kyousuke... my respect and sympathies for him almost became outright pity and "WTF dude!". The ultimate shame of grovelling and begging on her sisters behalf is something I'd expect one to do only in the most extreme and most life-threatening of cases short of killing and suicide. He's racking up the karma points for ridiculous ways and ridiculous reasons, and he'd better cash in the chips when the time comes. I'd be completely pissed if he doesn't.

Also slightly off-topic, but the amount of spoiler tagged LN posts in this thread just to even clarify most of anything in this show at this point only further reinforces my belief that the show is failing at bridging the gap between reader and viewer, again putting anime-only viewers at a disadvantage that makes discussions on the show pretty one sided when someone can just come out and whip out an LN spoiler to reinforce their point. One of the reasons I don't really feel like talking about the show sometimes anymore if I'm just going to feel like I'm posting things in ignorance.
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Old 2010-11-22, 10:34   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
I was hoping the episode won't end up this way but it did.

The problem I have with this episode is that the episode is bill as an original work but it ends up as a "wannabe" (yes it's a pun from the LN)

Since the arc is closed and other has already mentioned original conflic in LN, here's a more detailed summary on what was supposed to happen based on LN for all who are intrested for comparison:


Spoiler for Detailed summery for the LN event to be compare with Anime:

Spoiler for Responding to what Undertaker revealed:
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Old 2010-11-22, 10:45   Link #85
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Originally Posted by keroro gunsou View Post
Now,I decided to read LN reading your post. I have not read LN & manga of this series. But i felt this anime didnt scribe enough about each character,didnt develop each characters depth. I shoul read LN...
you should, it's a really good read. I wasn't too hot on it when I went back to Taiwan earlier this year simply because of its title, but they were promoting the series pretty heavily and lots people in the store were saying this series is great so I bought the first 4.

After I came back to U.S. and read them I was completely hooked, and went online and bought the next 2. Too bad the official Chinese translation doesn't come out that quick so I read the fansubs for volume 7 online but I will buy it once Chinese version is out.

Other than the last 2 episodes, the series were pretty well adapted, but there are a lot of setting and character related issue/development for a plot that was pretty well constructed compare to LN.

This is one of those series that really got shafted by the constraint of it's length. similar to Toradora which had some pacing issue towards the end, and would benefit be having and extra 5-6 episodes. With Oreimo being a 1-cour series, there is not enough length to conver the original material. The natural breaking point is volume 5 and I believe the perfect length for it would be 15-17 episodes. but that's not enough for a 2-cour. The pacing issue gets more and more apparent after volume 3 where the lack of character setting is starting to really shows itself.



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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post

Also slightly off-topic, but the amount of spoiler tagged LN posts in this thread just to even clarify most of anything in this show at this point only further reinforces my belief that the show is failing at bridging the gap between reader and viewer, again putting anime-only viewers at a disadvantage that makes discussions on the show pretty one sided when someone can just come out and whip out an LN spoiler to reinforce their point. One of the reasons I don't really feel like talking about the show sometimes anymore if I'm just going to feel like I'm posting things in ignorance.

I'm feeling your pain, I would love to talk about the anime only, but this adaption is not letting me do so because the question that most anime viewers had are right in the novel. What went wrong was the basic characterization and setting were taken off due to the length of the show. It would be different if this series was like say Asobi ni Iku Yo where there are not much development with the plot and the format is more episodic where its easy to grasp the character's personality and feelings.

In stead of the anime filling in the blanks of LN, the LN is filling in the blanks for the anime. At this point it is really hard to see what the animation team is trying to accomplish here. It almost like Kuroneko's fan-fiction that requires 200+ of reference to understand the reason behind each character's action at this point.

The series were fine with the first 4 episodes, yeah there are still lack of info to tie everything together, but it was controlled at acceptable level and then episode 5-8 just destroys it. I rather they rip apart everything and did what Full Metal Alchemist (1st series) and Bamboo Blade did and re-work the whole damn thing instead of them doing what they are doing right now. They can still get back to what LN is and end at its natual point, but it'll be abrupt and ends as a series with good begging and ending but shitty middle.

Quote:
I'm flabbergasted at what the anime producers could possibly be thinking here. Why would they make changes like this that so obviously make the two leading characters much less sympathetic, and cast much more in a negative light?
My guess is tsundere and emo-girls sells but they mess it up by having too much "tusn" and not enough "dere" as I remember someone mention it in this forum before. Then they try to get some sympathy votes back only Kirino is not the type of girl to you'll give sympathy votes for and anime team had already did away all the reasons Kirino should get sympathy with.
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Old 2010-11-22, 11:24   Link #86
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This is one of those series that really got shafted by the constraint of it's length. similar to Toradora which had some pacing issue towards the end, and would benefit be having and extra 5-6 episodes. With Oreimo being a 1-cour series, there is not enough length to conver the original material. The natural breaking point is volume 5 and I believe the perfect length for it would be 15-17 episodes. but that's not enough for a 2-cour. The pacing issue gets more and more apparent after volume 3 where the lack of character setting is starting to really shows itself.
Volume 4 is a more natural breaking point anyway (Fushimi said that himself as Volume 4 being "end of 1st half"). So naturally, being a 12 episodes anime, adapting up to volume 4 makes the most logical sense.

Makes me wonder why they keep rushing stuff last few episodes, then suddenly throw out half-original stuff this episode that makes no sense. As I said already, they could have take out (or modify) Kuroneko's speech if that's make the episode more logical, but no, they want to be faithful to the LN, and decided to throw that in anyway. Then, you can see Saori being nothing more than a background character, of course, she doesn't even appear in this part (other than those meeting in restaurant), and serve no purpose anyway...

Although one fact is certain - it's hard to like Kirino even if you read the LN. But then, by volume 3, Kirino is already showing much more dere. Anime = turn Kirino from Tsun 7 Dere 3 into Tsun 9.5 Dere 0.5, talk about inverse development of a character...

Quote:
The series were fine with the first 4 episode, yeah there are still lack or info to tie everything together, but it was controlled at acceptable level than episode 5-8 just destroys it. I rather they rip apart everything and did what Full Metal Alchemist (1st series) and Bamboo Blade did and re-work the whole damn thing instead of them doing what they are doing right now.
[off topic]This series not so much...Angel Beats, on the other hand...definitely need a remake[/off topic]

Quote:
Base on the title, next episode seem to jump directly to the end of volume 4 as expected, as volume 4 does not have a central plot.
Next episode is another original episode I believe. Unless they mix in a part of the Drama CD original (The Ayase part...).
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Old 2010-11-22, 11:29   Link #87
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Mmmmm, so so, a bit boring episode, kuroneko save the day.
Overall 5/10.
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Old 2010-11-22, 11:51   Link #88
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I was hoping the episode won't end up this way but it did.

The problem I have with this episode is that the episode is bill as an original work but it ends up as a "wannabe" (yes it's a pun from the LN)

I don't have problem with original works. What I do have problem is that instead of rewrite the dialogues and scenes for Kyosuke and Kuroneko for the confrontation, they decided to keep the respective scenes and majority of dialogs and adds Saori into mix. As result, the confrontation looks awkward and illogical.

The scenes espicially looks bad for Kyosuke. In LN, and so far in the anime, whenever Kyosuke goes and defend Kirino or arguing for her, he always has facts and somewhat logical argument with him. But in this episode, his begging scene makes him looks like a drama queen that is all emotional and zero common sense. The reason why this happens is percislt because they changed everything else in this episode but somehow decided to keep the begging theme and Kuroneko's lecture. While Kuroneko's line still fit somewhat (though still awkward) Kyosuke's action is just baffling without the original content and it actually destroys a bit of his identity and character.

And while I don't like Kirino (even in LN). I have to say her character got further destroyed in this episode and being shown as an drama queen brat and all her good points were taken away.


Since the arc is closed and other has already mentioned original conflic in LN, here's a more detailed summary on what was supposed to happen based on LN for all who are intrested for comparison:


Spoiler for Detailed summery for the LN event to be compare with Anime:




Base on the title, next episode seem to jump directly to the end of volume 4 as expected, as volume 4 does not have a central plot.
As an anime only viewer, I found this episode as good as the previous ones.. nothing wrong.. till I saw this .. what gives.. this has better development..
and this
Spoiler for quote:


A side of Kuroneko that we anime only viewer won't get to see.. gone
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Old 2010-11-22, 11:52   Link #89
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7/10
I'm not too negatively biased towards any character so I don't dislike Kirino, but I'd say the most striking part for me was when Kyousuke said that he hated Kirino a lot in his mind. Still, I should hope that all Kirino needs is a good old setting straight to throw her back on the -dere path, 'cause what Kyousuke does is only support her tsun which is great and all but I felt he tried to play the idiot this episode, which he did.

And whow, pretty diversive rating for supposedly being the best anime this season for many.
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Old 2010-11-22, 12:03   Link #90
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I would strongly encourage every anime-only viewer (like myself) to read what Undertaker revealed under the spoiler section in his post here, from earlier on in this thread.

I don't think it's too spoilerrific of what is to come, and it also shows where this anime is really diverging quite a bit from the source material, and that's greatly impacting how many of us (including myself) are viewing Kirino and Kyousuke.

With such incredible irony, this might be one of the worst cases of an anime butchering its source material that I've ever seen.
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Old 2010-11-22, 12:03   Link #91
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And whow, pretty diversive rating for supposedly being the best anime this season for many.
The rating can probably be divided into 3 groups:
1. Those that have read the LN - give much lower rating (5-7, and obviously the 1's and 2's) for obvious reason.
2. Those that have only watch the anime and don't seems to see what's wrong with the episode (8-10)
3. Those who always rate every episode with a 6 or 7 but keep watching the series for some reason.

Given that group 1, who usually rate the episodes 8-10 (This is the first episode that I didn't rate 9 or 10, for obvious reason), now rate it down to 5-7, you got the diversive rating.
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Old 2010-11-22, 12:15   Link #92
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Not too keen on this episode (three guesses as to why lol), but goddamn, I love Kuroneko. Especially the way Hanazawa delivers her lines. Not quite mai waifu status, but darn close to it. <3

LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.
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Old 2010-11-22, 12:16   Link #93
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Volume 4 is a more natural breaking point anyway (Fushimi said that himself as Volume 4 being "end of 1st half"). So naturally, being a 12 episodes anime, adapting up to volume 4 makes the most logical sense.

Makes me wonder why they keep rushing stuff last few episodes, then suddenly throw out half-original stuff this episode that makes no sense. As I said already, they could have take out (or modify) Kuroneko's speech if that's make the episode more logical, but no, they want to be faithful to the LN, and decided to throw that in anyway. Then, you can see Saori being nothing more than a background character, of course, she doesn't even appear in this part (other than those meeting in restaurant), and serve no purpose anyway...

Although one fact is certain - it's hard to like Kirino even if you read the LN. But then, by volume 3, Kirino is already showing much more dere. Anime = turn Kirino from Tsun 7 Dere 3 into Tsun 9.5 Dere 0.5, talk about inverse development of a character...



[off topic]This series not so much...Angel Beats, on the other hand...definitely need a remake[/off topic]




Next episode is another original episode I believe. Unless they mix in a part of the Drama CD original (The Ayase part...).
Really V4? I have to double check on that because the I think the seires would be really weird ending at v4 unless the production of season 2 set in stone.

But totally agree with you, the best tsundere (imo) are alway 3 tsun, 7 dere or 4:6. Haruhi of being 6:4 is already pushing the boundary. Kirino been a 7:3 in novel is already unlikeable and she did have the any "super-dere" scene or unique traits to balance it out a bit like Hitagi Senjōgahara. It's the setting that Kyosuke is her brother and the fact that there seems to be some reason behind her tsun that saves her, but Anime is not making her sympathetic by jacking up her tsun and taking away her dere.


As for Angel Beat, I do want to see a re-make, but that series doesn't have much original material to speak on and with Key involved what we see is what we get a nice little sad story that you can't help to wish for a better ending.


As for the next episode, I guess I'm focusing too much on the Eroge part of the title.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
The rating can probably be divided into 3 groups:
1. Those that have read the LN - give much lower rating (5-7, and obviously the 1's and 2's) for obvious reason.
2. Those that have only watch the anime and don't seems to see what's wrong with the episode (8-10)
3. Those who always rate every episode with a 6 or 7 but keep watching the series for some reason.

Given that group 1, who usually rate the episodes 8-10 (This is the first episode that I didn't rate 9 or 10, for obvious reason), now rate it down to 5-7, you got the diversive rating.

I'm one of the people downgrade from an 8 to a 6. I was expecting an original episode that will have similar effect to the stuff it replaced but instead I got a wannabe that is a shell of itself that don't really make any sense.


I can bypass last episode's date part and write it off as necessary evil and still give it a 8 but not this one I just can't rationalize this episode even when I try to block away all the LN stuff, it only make things worse.

Again, I have nothing against original material but I hate when it ends up being just a shadow of itself. If they are going to keep the scenes at the end, why change the rest and ends up taking away the impact of the scene and destroys the character process. Even talk strictly anime, Kyosuke is acting unlike himself compare to past couple episode, and there is no dere in Kirino anymore and they cut away more Kuroneko goodness and while she still shines in the episode, her words still felt a bit awkward.....

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Not too keen on this episode (three guesses as to why lol), but goddamn, I love Kuroneko. Especially the way Hanazawa delivers her lines. Not quite mai waifu status, but darn close to it. <3

LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.
I'm actually beginning to think that way too, this episode succeed on showing what not-to-do with anime adaption...
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Old 2010-11-22, 13:30   Link #94
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LOL@ the LN events. What is talked about this episode is highly ironic indeed.
The poetic irony is just too much for me. XD
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Old 2010-11-22, 14:01   Link #95
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This is the reason I'm glad that I'm an anime-only watcher; it saves me alot of RAEG when the adaptation goes haywire, while I can always go for the source material later for maximum enjoyment. It lets me see the story in the episode for what it is instead of what it isn't.

And in this case, I can see that the part where Kirino, a middle-schooler, gets an anime for a shitty self-insert fanfic is pretty ridiculous, but I thought it was also that sheer ridiculousness that made the message of jealousy Kuroneko was conveying much more pronounced. The thing is, most stories tend to circle around the outside where it's all butterflies and flowers; this one though actually delved into the darker aspects which bind people to people, in this case by having Kyousuke/Kuroneko admiting their envy of Kirino, a child clearly loved by God. The juxtaposition between Kyousuke's envy for Kirino and his caring for his sister is a topic I hope will get revisited sometime down the road again.

But yeah on the other hand, having Kirino's friends and her brother be nukes that can blow away problems with a single button is starting to get irritating and detrimental for the story. Sometimes I wonder if something is motivating Kyousuke other than that simple "because I'm her brother" sentiment. His babying her almost borders on the edge of obsession... almost as if he's trying to repay some kind of debt.
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Old 2010-11-22, 14:28   Link #96
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well one thing was made transparent, the fact that many original storys (be it manga or light novel) are often botched when they are made into an anime. ALL THX TO THE GUYS WHO PRODUCED SPICE AND WOLF, that was a good job. i thought oreimo was pretty decent at the start, but now its easy to see all the holes in the story which leads to a heavy decrease of enjoyment.
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Old 2010-11-22, 14:42   Link #97
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Kuroneko was(and is) awesome, Kyosuke being such a sandbag for his sister is really pissin' me off, and Kirino is a bitch, esp what she did at the end. I hope when Kirino falls, she falls HARD, like, close to suicide levels.
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Old 2010-11-22, 15:09   Link #98
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The poetic irony is just too much for me. XD
I'm convinced that a central purpose of this episode was to troll the light novel readers. It's not like the author didn't know perfectly well how significantly this episode was deviating from the source material when he wrote it (it's the same writer who did the script for all the other episodes too!), which is why it's actually an episode about deviating from the source material. And just look at how furious the novel readers in this thread have gotten about it, and how serious they are that the novels are being pillaged by the anime writer! I'm totally flabbergasted that people haven't seen through the rather obvious game that's being played! Like, really, you don't get the joke?

In before someone says "I get the joke but don't find it funny". That's even worse.

Anime is serious business.
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Old 2010-11-22, 15:21   Link #99
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But totally agree with you, the best tsundere (imo) are alway 3 tsun, 7 dere or 4:6. Haruhi of being 6:4 is already pushing the boundary. Kirino been a 7:3 in novel is already unlikeable and she did have the any "super-dere" scene or unique traits to balance it out a bit like Hitagi Senjōgahara. It's the setting that Kyosuke is her brother and the fact that there seems to be some reason behind her tsun that saves her, but Anime is not making her sympathetic by jacking up her tsun and taking away her dere.
And to think back I complained about Ayana voicing Kirino is not tsun enough way back when 1st episode air, guess not...

It's not like 9:1 tsun:dere ratio doesn't work for me. Right now Kirino is not even a tsundere anymore, more like tsun without the dere. Well, good adaptation (Even though Kirino do have her dere moment in LN) for early part. Is it annoying? Yes. But then you have Kyousuke being a tsundere himself and not admitting that his reason for keep helping Kirino is more than "she's my sister", more like he's a siscon...

Quote:
Really V4? I have to double check on that because the I think the seires would be really weird ending at v4 unless the production of season 2 set in stone.
There's not much real "breaking" point in the series. Even though Vol. 4 maybe a good break point, it still has somewhat of a cliffhanger (towards Vol. 5) ending. Vol. 5 just doesn't feel like a good point to split the series. Although, if there's season 2 and it start at Vol. 5, at least they can finally have "Ore no Kuroneko ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai" as episode title...

And yeah, as I mentioned way back in first page, it's almost an irony / self-parody on the staff that create this episode...
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Old 2010-11-22, 15:31   Link #100
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well one thing was made transparent, the fact that many original storys (be it manga or light novel) are often botched when they are made into an anime. ALL THX TO THE GUYS WHO PRODUCED SPICE AND WOLF, that was a good job. i thought oreimo was pretty decent at the start, but now its easy to see all the holes in the story which leads to a heavy decrease of enjoyment.
I agree, Spice and wolf was anime adaption done right, its short and sweet and didn't cut away stuff that would be detrimental to the character. To Aru series that done pretty well so far as well as for as anime adaption goes.

Too bad, I really had high hope for this one and love the series so far until really, this episode.

To be clear, I have no problem with the episode been about anime adaption part, what I had problem was that they virtually kept Kuroneko's rant and Kyosuke's begging in tact. which to me felt really awkward even without LN influence.

Like Eater of All said, yeah, the anime want to make Kirino the child love by God, I get that, but its getting too far to a point where its impossible to like her, and now they are dragging Kyosuke along for the ride. The excuse of "I'm her brother" just doesn't convince me anymore and it makes me have to re-read LN just to make me believe in their characters again and I don't want to do that.

I really wanted to enjoy this sereis on its own with having to go back to LN to fill in critical information that would filled the gap.

I just can't help but wonder how they can show any character progression with 4 more episodes?

BTW, V3 is my least favorite book and I only skip through it and didn't really read it. Which was the one reason I can't wait to watch this episodeb before. But after watching it, it just makes no sense to me and I fail to connect this episode to the prior episodes and can't figure out why the character acts they way they did that had me go back and actually read the volume through and post that summary...



As for what relentlessflame is saying, I have to agree that the only purpose I can think of for thsi episode is exactly that. I'll still watch through this series but I'm hoping for FMA (1st series), Bamboo Blade, Dragonball GT type of result where I can say it was not source material, but it was a damn good series in its own right.

I'm now can't wait for ep 9 after reading about its synopsis, sound like another original work and it better turns out better than this one.
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