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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 15 14.15%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 11 10.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 21 19.81%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 14.15%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 14.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 9.43%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 2.83%
3 out of 10 : Bad 4 3.77%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 4 3.77%
1 out of 10 : Painful 8 7.55%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-11-22, 16:15   Link #101
Hoodspirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
In before someone says "I get the joke but don't find it funny". That's even worse.
It could have been a joke if they had replaced the development-scenes with something equal. [scenes and consequences in my post on page 4]
For the moment though Anime watchers are pretty much left out, while the staff is toying with LN readers. I felt bad for the anime watchers and picked some important scenes up, for those to read who felt this episode was just too static and/or boring.

After the first shock (wrote last post shortly after watching the episode) I can take the joke personally easy now as LN readers have all important information. It's quite the same feeling I had after watching the second season of the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Spoiler for Haruhi 2nd Season:


I hope the Anime staff will put the progress elements they missed now back in at a later point. Things like this might effect the number of people being attracted to the Light Novel, which helps to keep the Novel going untill it ends(nothing is more annoying than a printed media ending unfinished). Buying DVD and it's fan articles leading into buying the original material is not so uncommon. And who wants to buy a product which make you feel like there is missing something or adds annoying traits to the characters?

Last edited by Hoodspirit; 2010-11-22 at 17:46.
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Old 2010-11-22, 16:40   Link #102
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'm convinced that a central purpose of this episode was to troll the light novel readers. It's not like the author didn't know perfectly well how significantly this episode was deviating from the source material when he wrote it (it's the same writer who did the script for all the other episodes too!), which is why it's actually an episode about deviating from the source material. And just look at how furious the novel readers in this thread have gotten about it, and how serious they are that the novels are being pillaged by the anime writer! I'm totally flabbergasted that people haven't seen through the rather obvious game that's being played! Like, really, you don't get the joke?

In before someone says "I get the joke but don't find it funny". That's even worse.
Why is that even worse? Why should novel readers be amused at seeing characters they liked in the light novel be portrayed in a much more negative light in the anime? What exactly is funny about that, Relentlessflame?

And anime-original viewers are obviously being left out on the joke, unless they run across some information like what Undertaker provided. As far as most anime-original viewers are concerned, these major changes are simply ruining certain major characters for them.
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Old 2010-11-22, 16:56   Link #103
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Meh, I've been enjoying this show, but I felt this episode was terrible and I don't even read the novels. My suspension of disbelief was gone by minute 2 and it was weird to see all the characters behave like brats.

Now that I know it deviated from the source material, it does seem like it was a trolling attempt. But despite this I don't really find it funny. To begin with I don't think trolling your audience is particularly hilarious, but maybe if the episode had done it in an entertaining way at least.

Something being unfunny does not mean people treat it like "serious business". It just means...it's an unfunny joke. Like a bad comedian. :P
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:01   Link #104
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I would strongly encourage every anime-only viewer (like myself) to read what Undertaker revealed under the spoiler section in his post here, from earlier on in this thread.

I don't think it's too spoilerrific of what is to come, and it also shows where this anime is really diverging quite a bit from the source material, and that's greatly impacting how many of us (including myself) are viewing Kirino and Kyousuke.
I'm going to second that anime only viewers should read that post. The LN version is certainly more in line with what I would have expected from this series based on the way the drama in the first five episodes unfolded.

I actually don't mind when an adaptation deviates from the source material since I figure it keeps things interesting for fans, but it only really works well when the writers can capture what made the original great in the first place.
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:09   Link #105
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I kind of thought that the anime company would just tell them to go fly a kite, and they would make it how they wanted
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:15   Link #106
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Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I'm going to second that anime only viewers should read that post. The LN version is certainly more in line with what I would have expected from this series based on the way the drama in the first five episodes unfolded.

I actually don't mind when an adaptation deviates from the source material since I figure it keeps things interesting for fans, but it only really works well when the writers can capture what made the original great in the first place.
Agreed. Haruhi 2006 is a good example of how an animation studio taking some liberties in adapting the source material can actually make the anime even better sometimes.

But what we're seeing here in Ore no Imouto is such a huge character-derailing change that even I think it's horrible.
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:26   Link #107
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Seriously since when was naivety confused with being a brat? Kirino was gone for about half the episode and people still bitch. She was excited that her book was being made into an anime, any teen, hell even if it was me, would lose their head over something like this. The point of the meeting was to get input from the author.

Anyway, enough about that... I don't think I need to even mention it, as I think it's more than obvious and people just choose to ignore it to through stones without any remorse. Also Kuroneko is overrated, every time I hear someone talk about hating the world and all people I just want to save them some time and slit their wrists for them.
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:29   Link #108
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Seriously since when was naivety confused with being a brat?
If you mean from my comment, I was talking about Kyosuke and Kuroneko in this particular episode, not Kirino. Kirino was a bit overexcited and then she never heard what they did so can't really blame her. I really like her character, actually. And one episode that came out of nowhere of Kuroneko and Kyosuke acting like idiots won't make me dislike 'em, either.
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Old 2010-11-22, 17:37   Link #109
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Just because Kuroneko says that she hates world, doesn't mean that she actually does. If she did, she would not be engaged in it and would not help others.

Kirino is just annoying, not because of this episode. She is always rambling about dumb things like if she is 5 and looks down on others. It is rare when she does something decent.

This episode was kind of meh... seeing how Kirino's brother is always losing face before others is starting to get old espcially since he almost never gets any reward for it.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:32   Link #110
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With each new episode, I hate Kirino a little bit more. This is kind of impressive because I already wanted to break her neck at episode 1.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:33   Link #111
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Wow....
Initially I voted 8 primarily for Kuroneko's scenes of awesomeness.
Then I read Undertaker's post on what was *supposed* to be going on, and wished I could change it to a 4.
Then with help from relentlessflame and others it became obvious that it had to be a troll/joke. Where both the LN and anime are readily available, this could result in successful cross-promotion. It's unfair to anime-only viewers but those vested heavily enough in the story might go and by the LN.
That said, my ultimate rating would fall on 6. Yes it was going for something different but, if the LN was Gouda, this was cheez whiz.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:34   Link #112
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Why is that even worse? Why should novel readers be amused at seeing characters they liked in the light novel be portrayed in a much more negative light in the anime? What exactly is funny about that, Relentlessflame?

And anime-original viewers are obviously being left out on the joke, unless they run across some information like what Undertaker provided. As far as most anime-original viewers are concerned, these major changes are simply ruining certain major characters for them.
They're not being portrayed in a "much more negative light" here. What the anime is conveying through this episode and what the novels were trying to convey through their story were entirely different things. The anime is using this episode to develop Kyousuke and Kirino, and what it accomplished for their character development (given what we've seen in the anime so far) is a lot more significant to the anime's story than everything in the aforementioned summary. What's funny is that people are getting so hung about the anime not being faithful to the novel in an episode whose primary illustration was anime not being faithful to novels (it's very much pun intended), and missed the key point about what the show was trying to suggest in the story as a result.

What is the purpose of this episode? What is the central message? How it did develop the characters in the story to support the message? How does this message contribute to the overall plot of the show as shown so far? What does it to suggest to us about where the story is headed? These are the important questions. But very few people in this thread are asking those sorts of questions. They're focused on words and actions but not on the meaning beneath those words and actions. And this episode is all about providing context and meaning to Kyousuke and Kirino's behaviour, which is the very thing that people keep complaining about ad nauseum from week to week. This episode on its own tells you everything you need to know about Kyousuke and Kirino to understand everything that's happened in the plot so far. And yet people are continuing to bitch and complain about the same things they always have, in addition to complaining now about the lack of faithfulness (despite that being an obvious pun intended). That's why I called it a troll to the light novel readers. For everyone else, I would have thought this episode would have filled in a lot of gaps (gaps that probably didn't need filling for the novel readers in the first place), but few are seeing it because they're focused more on the "what" than the "why" of the plot.

This episode may not have been the greatest on its own, but I would argue that it was actually the turning point of this season of this show.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:41   Link #113
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To be honest this episode was extremely weird for me. Truth be told the characters were very different from what they were so far (except for Kirino who acted like usual being called and oblivious to the rest of the world). And I haven't even read the LN.

Kyousuke's statement that he "hated" his sister for me was completely out of the blue. Being annoyed with her or envious - I'd agree but hate? After all he's doing and the way he's acting he could simply say he hates her? How does that make any sense really? And a minute after that he's on his knees begging for her sake. I mean the logic - "I hate her but she's my sister so I'm ready to beg if that would somehow help her" is way off.

And after reading what people have posted about the LN content I completely agree the way they changed the order of events (seemingly small yet important for character development) and the contents in general was a really bad choice. I liked this anime mostly because the characters had a lot of room to develop and grow. Now it looks rather random and illogical at times. Any major development from this point on will be pretty much forced (due to lack of time).

And as it was said, Kirino might be working really hard to get where she is, but she's also extremely lucky in general. Both of these fact were clearly shown in this episode. However, fact remains she acts like she's something more and is completely oblivious to how much effort others put in these thing and don't even get even close to where she is. While I'd agree if you're talking about people in general a 14 wouldn't really care about the others. Kuroneko however, is one of those unfortunate people that work really hard and can't achieve their goal and Kirino as her friend should consider her feelings and not practically rub it all in her face.

Oh and Kirino basically gets shielded from one of most difficult situations she has ever faced in her life thus saying she is "being spoiled" isn't that far-fetched.

As far as character development go for Kyousuke and Kirino, the only major thing was that now Kyousuke has to ponder why exactly is he doing what he's doing. I said it in the beginning of my post but the logic he's using to justify what he's doing is kind of ridiculous.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:42   Link #114
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I got into Bakuman recently, and it's probably influenced me, but... Seriously? Kirino writes something that sounds like really bad fanfiction, and it gets made into anime? It made it pretty hard for me to sympathize with anyone involved.
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:46   Link #115
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
They're not being portrayed in a "much more negative light" here.
They are being potrayed in a much more negative light. If you disagree, then I'd like to hear clear character-specific reasons why.

Many people here, including myself, have argued that this anime episode is showing Kyousuke going way too far for his sister. That he's spoiling or babying or coddling her by doing what he does for her in this episode.

It's making Kirino even more unlikable for many of us, and it's making Kyousuke look like a pitiable fool for going as far as he is for her.

How exactly is that not putting them in a more negative light, relentlessflame?


Quote:
What the anime is conveying through this episode and what the novels were trying to convey through their story were entirely different things.
And what do you feel that the anime is trying to convey through this episode?
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Old 2010-11-22, 18:51   Link #116
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Geez so much negativity.....
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Old 2010-11-22, 19:01   Link #117
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For those that don't know, the point of this episode is to bring into question why Kyousuke does what he does for Kirino. He himself don't even know why, only hesitantly say "Because I'm her brother." as a scapegoat answer.
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Old 2010-11-22, 19:26   Link #118
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I got into Bakuman recently, and it's probably influenced me, but... Seriously? Kirino writes something that sounds like really bad fanfiction, and it gets made into anime? It made it pretty hard for me to sympathize with anyone involved.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking the entire time, but there is some really, really, really fucking awful stuff out there nowadays so it's not entirely unrealistic. It's a given that her story is still pure dog shit, but there's a market for people who like dog shit.

As for this episode, I don't understand what I'm supposed to be getting out of this.

If the brother actually hates Kirno but is dead set on the 'but I'm her brother' angle then it sounds like an act out of obligation, not out of love, belief, or what have you. That's pandering to appearances and horribly superficial. Hell, it demoralizes everything he's apparently done on her behalf up to now. Whatever, I'll tell myself he's lying out of his ass, I don't really care anymore. Kirino is still a giant bitch and I just want a bit more development out of her relationship with her brother (or for her to get run over by an 18 wheeler).

I watch anime because I tend to fall in love with characters, and that in turn makes me happy to tag along to see what happens them, regardless of how shitty or amazing the journey may be. I've loved characters in the past that were the epitome of bitch (Flay from Gundam Seed) but Kirno actually manages to rub me the wrong way entirely. I'd greet her with the business end of a shotgun at this point, she deserves a blow to the head regardless of her age, naivety, whatever.
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Old 2010-11-22, 19:40   Link #119
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I kind of thought that the anime company would just tell them to go fly a kite, and they would make it how they wanted
Actually they can't, Kirino owns the IP and the option of pulling out IS on the table (it was even mentioned). Kirino got drunk on the idea of anime and was willing to make what ever compromise necessary even to the detriment of damaging her IP.
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Old 2010-11-22, 20:38   Link #120
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For those that don't know, the point of this episode is to bring into question why Kyousuke does what he does for Kirino. He himself don't even know why, only hesitantly say "Because I'm her brother." as a scapegoat answer.
Yes, I agree. This episode provides a perfect illustration of the "problem" and hints very clearly at the answers. This is why the argument with the anime writer is important, and the reasons for his wanting to re-write the story (and the argument that convinced him and the rest of the producers to change their mind) was shown. This episode was the very epitome of "Kirino being Kirino" (acting with presumptive arrogance and generally being unworthy of being saved) and "Kyousuke being Kyousuke" (debasing himself for Kirino's sake) but for the first time they actually pulled back the curtain and, through both example and deliberate questioning, opened the door to actually resolving the key issues between the two characters. He said he hates her. He admitted he was jealous of her. They illustrated clearly that she doesn't "deserve it" and that -- just like the viewers in this thread! -- there's real reason to wonder why she shouldn't be left to fail rather than having Kyousuke bail her out. He could be like Kuroneko postulated and gloat in her failure but, in the end, he doesn't. (Neither does Kuroneko, importantly enough.) They left Kyousuke with the question "Why do you go so far for Kirino?" What's the truth? It's a logical follow-up to episode 6 (which put this very problem on display), and flows nicely into the twist at the end, which should bring the issue to a head. We're now on the road to the conclusion, right where you'd expect to be with 4 episodes left.
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