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Old 2010-11-23, 12:24   Link #81
JKL
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post


Ouch. The anime's chara design is pretty disappointing.
I don't really see that. It isn't moe so that's a plus from my perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
You know, now that I look at it, the transition in art may be intentional, going back to the 90s art where the term moe didn't exist.
Ah the 90s! Glorious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi View Post
This. He has expressed exasperation with the anime industry recently, and he has a growing collection of criticisms. If you read some of his earlier interviews, he's been pretty driven to try and challenge the anime industry with works that don't just fall into the otaku niche but reach a wider audience without relying on pandering to fans.
If he is truely serious about this then he will have earned my respect at least.

Although his output has been the opposite of that (to be fair he didn't work on the majority of Lucky Star which pandered like hell), it takes someone to realise there is a problem before something can be done about it.
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Old 2010-11-23, 13:11   Link #82
yellowscarves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I adore the character designs. If someone showed me this image and didn't tell me where it came from, I would have mistaken it for an anime that came out many years ago.

The emphasis on fanservice and moe and whatever else describes recent anime really turn me off. It's been a long time since I've been excited about a new anime title, and it feels great.
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Old 2010-11-23, 15:42   Link #83
FireChick
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My only complaint on the character designs is that Clain looks a bit too plump and chubby for his own good. In the original design, he looks like a neat cross between Oz Vessalius (from Pandora Hearts) and Teito Klein (from 07-Ghost).
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Old 2010-11-23, 16:05   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireChick View Post
My only complaint on the character designs is that Clain looks a bit too plump and chubby for his own good.
lol indeed. Yamakan probably insisted the art to look retro because he's trying to prove his point. This better be as good as Howl's Moving Castle... yeah right.
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:27   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKL View Post
I don't really see that. It isn't moe so that's a plus from my perspective.
"moe is in the eye of the beholder"

sometimes I wonder how people decide whether the visual aspect of a work is "moe" or not. I think the quote defines well the ambiguity of the term.

personally, defining an artwork (or in this case the character designs) as moe is unfair and often misjudged. There are things in the visual aspect that work, regardless of stylization and personal values, which are not addressed by the simple mention of the word.

Quote:
Although his output has been the opposite of that (to be fair he didn't work on the majority of Lucky Star which pandered like hell), it takes someone to realise there is a problem before something can be done about it.
The point being made is that he strives to create a work that reaches a wider audience. I remember an interview where he explained how Kannagi was at its heart a romantic comedy about a boy and a girl living under the same roof; he hoped this basic premise could be enjoyed by everyone. Personally, I could see how Kannagi was something anyone could enjoy. I also felt the humor was very "accessible", like the karaoke episode for example, where it's all about the characters' "bad singing". I did enjoy Kannagi and there's a lot more to it than a romantic comedy, but I would sort of expect Fractal to be something along these lines, with a basic premise anyone can enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowscarves View Post
I adore the character designs. If someone showed me this image and didn't tell me where it came from, I would have mistaken it for an anime that came out many years ago.

The emphasis on fanservice and moe and whatever else describes recent anime really turn me off. It's been a long time since I've been excited about a new anime title, and it feels great.
sincerely speaking, there's nothing impeding the work from turning into one of those "fanservice" and "moe" anime that turns you off, based on the picture/character designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuno View Post
lol indeed. Yamakan probably insisted the art to look retro because he's trying to prove his point. This better be as good as Howl's Moving Castle... yeah right.
what makes the artwork retro, though? I'm willing to bet that Fractal will be anything except retro, but I can be wrong until we see a PV or more pictures.
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:53   Link #86
Guardian Enzo
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Without rehashing the old debate, I was no fan of Lucky Star (no offense to those who are) or Haruhi either for that matter, and I loved Kannagi. I don't think it pandered at all and it managed to be full of meta-humor while still being extremely accessible. It stands as one of the smartest and most well-crafted series of the last few years as far as I'm concerned. Based on that if nothing else, I'll give any Yamakan series a chance no matter what I think of the premise - and I take his comments about the state of the industry seriously.
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Old 2010-11-23, 18:11   Link #87
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKL View Post
It isn't moe
Is no one looking at the girl on the far right of the second image...?
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Old 2010-11-23, 18:33   Link #88
applejuice
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Umm...

Only the first 4 episode of Lucky Star was done by Yamakan... :/
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Old 2010-11-24, 13:14   Link #89
yellowscarves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkor View Post
sincerely speaking, there's nothing impeding the work from turning into one of those "fanservice" and "moe" anime that turns you off, based on the picture/character designs.
Admittedly, I was throwing the term "moe" around carelessly, and you're right: moe is in the eye of the beholder. When I see images from anime like K-on and Angel Beats, I think "ugh, looks moe". Whether or not it turns into one of those titles that I think looks "moe", I obviously can't say for sure. However, judging by all the images I've seen of Fractal and by what Washi said ("he's been pretty driven to try and challenge the anime industry with works that don't just fall into the otaku niche but reach a wider audience without relying on pandering to fans"), I think it's reasonable to believe that Fractal won't place significant emphasis on fanservice and what have you because I would interpret that as "pandering to fans".
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Old 2010-12-03, 22:27   Link #90
Kaoru Chujo
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1. Over the past year or so, I've loved just about everything Kobayashi Yuu has done: Rio in Sora no Woto, Meiren in Vampire Bund, Matabei in Hyakka Ryouran, even the male lead in Okami Kakushi. But then again, I don't think it's a bad thing for a seiyuu to be recognizable (e.g., Sawashiro Miyuki). I think it's worse for a seiyuu to be so professional they just fade out and contribute nothing beyond the "right" voice for a character.

2. There is no way Yamakan is going to retire. His career is just getting started. I believe he contributed a lot to Haruhi, but he wasn't the actual director. He only did four episodes of Lucky Star. Kannagi was good but not great; it lost direction as it went on, for me. I think he has more in him. Hopefully this is that. To me, what Yamakan has is a flair for motion and music, and a smart sense of humor. He needs a good writer, and I think Okada Mari (true tears, Toradora, Zakuro) has a chance to provide that.

3. I think the character design looks great: full and expressive. I do worry, however, that it's so detailed that it will be hard to keep the standard up through a whole series.
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Old 2010-12-04, 03:05   Link #91
MisaoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
1. Over the past year or so, I've loved just about everything Kobayashi Yuu has done: Rio in Sora no Woto, Meiren in Vampire Bund, Matabei in Hyakka Ryouran, even the male lead in Okami Kakushi. But then again, I don't think it's a bad thing for a seiyuu to be recognizable (e.g., Sawashiro Miyuki). I think it's worse for a seiyuu to be so professional they just fade out and contribute nothing beyond the "right" voice for a character.

2. There is no way Yamakan is going to retire. His career is just getting started. I believe he contributed a lot to Haruhi, but he wasn't the actual director. He only did four episodes of Lucky Star. Kannagi was good but not great; it lost direction as it went on, for me. I think he has more in him. Hopefully this is that. To me, what Yamakan has is a flair for motion and music, and a smart sense of humor. He needs a good writer, and I think Okada Mari (true tears, Toradora, Zakuro) has a chance to provide that.

3. I think the character design looks great: full and expressive. I do worry, however, that it's so detailed that it will be hard to keep the standard up through a whole series.
The male lead in Okami Kakushi is Jun'ichi Koizumi.
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Old 2010-12-04, 03:16   Link #92
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
2. There is no way Yamakan is going to retire. His career is just getting started. I believe he contributed a lot to Haruhi, but he wasn't the actual director.
Yamamoto's (rather short-lived) fame is entirely because of what he did for Haruhi.

When KyoAni promoted him to director for Lucky Star, and he showed that he was almost completely incompetent at the job, he left the company and began to produce his own mediocre anime.

I think this says something, but honestly I've never been a huge fan of his.
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Old 2010-12-04, 07:19   Link #93
Washi
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yamamoto's (rather short-lived) fame is entirely because of what he did for Haruhi.

When KyoAni promoted him to director for Lucky Star, and he showed that he was almost completely incompetent at the job, he left the company and began to produce his own mediocre anime.

I think this says something, but honestly I've never been a huge fan of his.
Yamakan's fame comes from his publicity (ie. doing "controversial" things like saying he'll retire) and his successes as a producer, rather than his talent as a director. He provided direction and storyboard for a few Haruhi episodes, but most of his creative input came from his series producer role. He's also famous for his dance openings/endings too! He choreographed the hare hare yukai dance by himself.

Regardless of what you think of Kannagi, it was competently directed, with no major mishaps and good quality and design choices overall. The impression I get of Yamakan is more that he's an interesting person who has a lot of creative input to offer anime, but isn't perhaps the best director around. But we'll see what happens with Fractale. All I can say is, I'm glad he's no longer with KyoAni and is able to do his own works.
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Old 2010-12-04, 07:54   Link #94
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I have a feeling what's lacking in the story will be made up with the background visuals. Although after reading ch 3, things are looking up a bit. For once, I'm looking forward to the next chapter.

I'm crossing my fingers this will be a decent series.
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Old 2010-12-04, 08:03   Link #95
cyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
2. There is no way Yamakan is going to retire. His career is just getting started. I believe he contributed a lot to Haruhi, but he wasn't the actual director. He only did four episodes of Lucky Star. Kannagi was good but not great; it lost direction as it went on, for me. I think he has more in him. Hopefully this is that. To me, what Yamakan has is a flair for motion and music, and a smart sense of humor. He needs a good writer, and I think Okada Mari (true tears, Toradora, Zakuro) has a chance to provide that.
Yamakan may not retire from arts, but the feeling I get is that he'll be more than happy to ditch anime for live-action projects. As for Okada Mari, I don't think he's relevant in any sense, not at all, but he has lots of experience, and from the current staff lineup, I believe he'll serve to dumb down Azuma Hiroki's story concepts, perhaps make them more understandable to the general audience. Iguchi Yuka and Hanazawa Kana made a guest appearance on Cho! A&G+ digital radio show recently where they promoted Fractale. They said that it's the kind of show where each line carries a meaning for the story development. It wouldn't surprise me, considering Azuma Hiroki's previous dabbles in writing. His sci-fi novel Quantum Families was hard to understand and barely qualified as a novel, according to his readers, although he won the 27th Mishima Yukio literary award for it. I mean, the guy's a cultural critic--if you were to read his Otaku: Japanese Database Animals, you'd know he's no joke when it comes to ideas. Unfortunately, I don't see the Azuma-Okada pair working too great at this moment. Perhaps the complexity level of their storytelling have too wide a margin? Maybe Yamakan will be able to bridge them together somehow for the anime, but I'm sure Azuma will be able to stretch out his intellectual wings in the planned novelization (which won't be metafiction, thankfully).
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Old 2010-12-04, 10:39   Link #96
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I don't believe this has been mentioned yet so, I came across the noitaminA English site (at least that's what I think it is) and it lists Fractal at 11 episodes.
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Old 2010-12-04, 17:09   Link #97
TJR
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
He needs a good writer, and I think Okada Mari (true tears, Toradora, Zakuro) has a chance to provide that.
I hope so. However, my opinion is that Okada has yet to make a true breakthrough when it comes to envisioning and pacing an original story. True Tears and Canaan were both pretty lean in substance, and the structures were more than a little loose (big events or changes in characters happening with too little development and too short a timeframe. In general, there were ambitious ideals but little vision). Unless Okada improves, it might take extra involvement from her planning partners to come up with something fantastic.

What she really excels at would be the sensitive character moments and interactions. True Tears showed this off the best, but her own episodes on Red Garden and Kita e: Diamond Dust Drops were also delightful.

These character oriented parts are exceptionally paced and written, which may have earned her the good reputation and busy workload she currently enjoys (well, the latter probably has more to do with the commercial successes of her Toradora! and Kuroshitsuji adaptations).

.....which may be why opinions on Okada are so polarized. Viewers who really value well done character moments are quite thrilled, while those who prioritize the actual content aren't particularly impressed yet.

Okada's other strength is adaptation. Toradora! was an incredible feat - light novels compressed into two episodes apiece while remaining coherent and emotionally convincing (as much as possible within the limitations anyway). However, while adaptation is the bread and butter of the industry these days, I don't tend to attribute the content to the person handling the adaptation. Good work proves that he/she excels at reworking content into a show, but it doesn't prove their ability to create.

And adaptation works multiple ways. You can do a great job adapting a bad source that no one likes....that's a commendable result. Or you can do a half-hearted job adapting a great source, yet people still enjoy the final show because the core material is so good. For that reason, pedigree in adaptation can only gauge how well they adapt, and little more.
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Old 2010-12-05, 19:34   Link #98
Kaoru Chujo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJR View Post
I hope so. However, my opinion is that Okada has yet to make a true breakthrough when it comes to envisioning and pacing an original story.... ...opinions on Okada are so polarized. Viewers who really value well done character moments are quite thrilled, while those who prioritize the actual content aren't particularly impressed yet.

Okada's other strength is adaptation. Toradora! was an incredible feat.... Good work proves that he/she excels at reworking content into a show, but it doesn't prove their ability to create....
Excellent post, even if I disagree with the implication that plot ("actual content") is more important than character. Those "character moments" are why I watch anime, and plot is less important for me. Of course, you are perfectly right in implying that the character moments have to work in the context of the character's development through the story.

In this case, I have belatedly discovered that the story is by cultural critic and Murakami Takashi associate Azuma Hiroki, so it will be a matter of how Okada Mari develops the basic story he provides. No doubt Yamakan is also involved at all stages of this process.
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Old 2010-12-06, 23:24   Link #99
applejuice
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I kinda did more research on Yamakan, and I finally understand why he always gets spotlight on everything. Basically, every part that made Kyoani interesting, unique and creative before lucky star was almost entirely directed and edited by Yamakan. The reason he left Kyoani was not because he suck. It was actually due to the higher staffs including Ishihara, who always persisted on following the original story 'strictly', and Yamakan was against it, which resulted on his firing. The major change in style of Kyoani after lucky star (including endless eight..;;;...) was solely due to Yamakan and his 10 other young follower's leaving.
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Old 2010-12-07, 00:48   Link #100
Washi
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I kinda did more research on Yamakan, and I finally understand why he always gets spotlight on everything. Basically, every part that made Kyoani interesting, unique and creative before lucky star was almost entirely directed and edited by Yamakan. The reason he left Kyoani was not because he suck. It was actually due to the higher staffs including Ishihara, who always persisted on following the original story 'strictly', and Yamakan was against it, which resulted on his firing. The major change in style of Kyoani after lucky star (including endless eight..;;;...) was solely due to Yamakan and his 10 other young follower's leaving.
Yep. And now watch Kyo Ani do endless faithful-but-dull adaptations of slice-of-life/gag manga. They still have talented staff and know how to make a buck, but they've lost a certain spark that studios like Gainax and Bones still have.

I have high hopes for this anime, but not necessarily high expectations.
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