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Old 2010-11-23, 13:30   Link #181
marvelB
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I sorta doubt that Morgan would become that much stronger if he ventured out to the NW. Honestly, I'm kinda hoping that he ends up running into the same situation that Coby did near the start of the series: He ends up running into a pirate crew that's far too strong for him, and ends up becoming their bitch just so he can survive. Naturally, Helmeppo will be disgusted with what his father became and will simply decide to become the best marine he can be (though he'll forever be a few steps behind Coby....).


...At least, []iI'd[/i] like to see that scenario became a reality.....
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Old 2010-11-23, 19:45   Link #182
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JG was up against Whitebeard, so I think that's reason enough for his loss to be excused.
There is no reason to suggest that he isn't fodder.

Metal pieces on his shirt is not enough, really.
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Old 2010-11-26, 13:12   Link #183
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^Honestly, I would've considered JG fodder if he were taken out by a random NW pirate who wasn't any of the named captains or one of the WB division commanders, but I guess that's just me being biased.....




Speaking of VAs, while I know we were told that all of the current ones are Haki users, I don't think that actually means that possessing the ability to use it is actually a requirement. I mean, so far none of the 3 pre-skip admirals (who were all VAs once upon a time) revealed any Haki mastery, did they? I think just having a ton of battle experience alone would be good enough to make it to the upper marine ranks (let's put aside the fact that the admirals are all Logias for now, shall we?). If this is the case, then guys like Smoker may not need to awaken their "ambition" in order to achieve a greater status.....
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Old 2010-11-26, 13:41   Link #184
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Speaking of VAs, while I know we were told that all of the current ones are Haki users, I don't think that actually means that possessing the ability to use it is actually a requirement. I mean, so far none of the 3 pre-skip admirals (who were all VAs once upon a time) revealed any Haki mastery, did they? I think just having a ton of battle experience alone would be good enough to make it to the upper marine ranks (let's put aside the fact that the admirals are all Logias for now, shall we?). If this is the case, then guys like Smoker may not need to awaken their "ambition" in order to achieve a greater status.....
The 3 admirals did extend their hands out in front of them and stopped Whitebeard's quake attack from reaching the scaffold. It's as if they projected an invisible barrier to deflect the quake. This can be categorized as the Color of Armaments at work.
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Old 2010-11-26, 14:16   Link #185
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The 3 admirals did extend their hands out in front of them and stopped Whitebeard's quake attack from reaching the scaffold. It's as if they projected an invisible barrier to deflect the quake. This can be categorized as the Color of Armaments at work.
this

also, the much-debated here case of Akainu withstanding Marco's and Vista's haki attacks - one can assume that to negate opponents armor-haki you need to have armor-haki of your own of equal or greater strength/mastery
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Old 2010-11-27, 14:40   Link #186
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The 3 admirals did extend their hands out in front of them and stopped Whitebeard's quake attack from reaching the scaffold. It's as if they projected an invisible barrier to deflect the quake. This can be categorized as the Color of Armaments at work.

Ah, I nearly forgot about that scene! Well then, this certainly does raise the possibility of our 3 Logia friends being Haki users, doesn't it? I rather doubt that any of them would possess the Color of the Conqueror, though (but just imagine of Kizaru of all people turned out to possess it! ).....
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Old 2010-12-04, 21:32   Link #187
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The 3 admirals did extend their hands out in front of them and stopped Whitebeard's quake attack from reaching the scaffold. It's as if they projected an invisible barrier to deflect the quake. This can be categorized as the Color of Armaments at work.
Another Benefit to Using Haki?
After seeing this does that mean you can actually combine Haki powers with other users to form a more potent attack or defensive barrier? If so this will be another cool use of haki.

Does Sengoku have Haki? If he does can Sengoku use it as well as others like Garp and other major users?
I ask this because during the battle at White Beard Luffy used his devil fruit to protect Ace and No. Three from Sengoku's attack. Sengoku couldn't get past it. Now when Garp punches people he can literally punch people out of there devil fruit form. Like the time Marco tried to free Ace on the platform. Marco was in full Phoenix mode and garp managed to punch him out of it and give him a bruise in the face too.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-05 at 00:21. Reason: More questions
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Old 2010-12-05, 00:41   Link #188
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Another Benefit to Using Haki?
After seeing this does that mean you can actually combine Haki powers with other users to form a more potent attack or defensive barrier? If so this will be another cool use of haki.

Does Sengoku have Haki? If he does can Sengoku use it as well as others like Garp and other major users?
I ask this because during the battle at White Beard Luffy used his devil fruit to protect Ace and No. Three from Sengoku's attack. Sengoku couldn't get past it. Now when Garp punches people he can literally punch people out of there devil fruit form. Like the time Marco tried to free Ace on the platform. Marco was in full Phoenix mode and garp managed to punch him out of it and give him a bruise in the face too.
All vice-admirals and up can use haki, so being the Fleet Admiral is no exception. If I remember the scene correctly, Luffy ended up coughing up blood. Had the attack not been haki-infused, Luffy wouldn't have gotten hurt.
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Old 2010-12-05, 02:07   Link #189
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Your right about the Vice admiral and up using haki. Sengoku then has it. But how strong is it and did he use it on luffy? And luffy looks like he is loosing blood in one of the pictures. But looking at the picture it looks like Sengoku size, strength, and devil Fruit were more at work then Haki. The way I see it if you get hit by a skilled user your devil fruit has little effect regardless of what stage your in. Garp was able to hurt luffy every time like he wasn't a devil fruit user. With Sengoku size and that punch if it was haki imbued should have crushed luffy.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-05 at 02:17.
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Old 2010-12-05, 08:05   Link #190
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Another Benefit to Using Haki?
After seeing this does that mean you can actually combine Haki powers with other users to form a more potent attack or defensive barrier? If so this will be another cool use of haki.
Yes Haki is not something that's limited to the single individual, it is a constant tug of war of wills between everyone and even the world itself.

A single person can carry a powerful will, but others can band together to stop that will.

If I explain more technically, let's say Haki can be measured in 'Haki points'.

A person's Haki attack has 9000 armament Haki points, its logical that 3 people with a combined armament Haki of at least 9000 can negate that attack.

Haki has never been a 'single target' ability in battle, observation Haki or Mantra hears and senses everything around the individual, you can use armament Haki in your AOE attacks, even a burst of Haoushoku Haki affects all. Similarly defenders can band together to stand up to attacks.
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Old 2010-12-05, 08:57   Link #191
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Response to hero147
Your right about the Vice admiral and up using haki. Sengoku then has it. But how strong is it and did he use it on luffy? And luffy looks like he is loosing blood in one of the pictures. But looking at the picture it looks like Sengoku size, strength, and devil Fruit were more at work then Haki. The way I see it if you get hit by a skilled user your devil fruit has little effect regardless of what stage your in. Garp was able to hurt luffy every time like he wasn't a devil fruit user. With Sengoku size and that punch if it was haki imbued should have crushed luffy.
Luffy was in G3-rd balloon mode - his ultimate defence .. and he still was hurt .. if he was in his normal form and got hit by that, he'd be out like a light I think
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Old 2010-12-05, 16:31   Link #192
grey_1960
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That a interesting way of looking at it.

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All I have to say is out of all the haki attacks from major players like Garp, Whitebeard, Rayleigh, and any other haki user we have seen so far that was probably the weakest if it was haki based attack.
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Old 2010-12-06, 08:29   Link #193
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The 3 admirals did extend their hands out in front of them and stopped Whitebeard's quake attack from reaching the scaffold. It's as if they projected an invisible barrier to deflect the quake. This can be categorized as the Color of Armaments at work.
I wont judge it just by that, is not something weird to see in a manga how a very powerful magical attack can be stopped by a hand from a stronger person, in this case is possible that the attack was so powerful it needed the combined force of the 3 admirals to stop it.

Not saying they cant use Haki, but, for me, this only looked like they used their Physical strength to stop a physical attack.
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Old 2010-12-06, 10:14   Link #194
Kallen4life
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I don't see how them standing there can stop a shockwave .. it rolls past them and onto the execution platform
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Old 2010-12-06, 13:54   Link #195
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Yeah, I admit that it seems rather odd that their bodies alone could stop Whitebeard's quake assault so easily (even moreso since they're Logia). There's a very good chance that they used armor Haki to put up an invisible barrier of sorts to cancel out his attack. Plus, it makes sense; after all, did Rayleigh not explain that the color of armaments acts as..... well, armor?
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Old 2011-02-21, 14:31   Link #196
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I'm not sure how this is even up for debate, you cannot be a top tier without haki, therefore Sengkou and the other 3 Admirals have haki.

The only person that's an exception to that rule is Teach, because his fruit acts like CoA. But who knows, even he might have haki as well.
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Old 2011-02-21, 16:20   Link #197
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Does Sengoku have Haki? If he does can Sengoku use it as well as others like Garp and other major users?
I ask this because during the battle at White Beard Luffy used his devil fruit to protect Ace and No. Three from Sengoku's attack. Sengoku couldn't get past it.
As Luffy, thanks to his rubber body, is impervious to strict blunt damage (though blunt attacks can draw blood from him, as seen when Coby, in W7, lands a kick on him - but they can't damage him, evident when two clean attacks from Moria, empowered with 1000 Shadows, didn't affect him in the slightest), it should be inferred that Sengoku infused his punch with CoA.

^Though it is a little bit odd that Sengoku did relatively little damage to Luffy with his punch, but I guess fist fighting isn't Buddha's strong suit... Or, more likely, Luffy was able to endure it so well because his spirit's were unparalleled at that point; he was on the verge of saving Ace (and Luffy's resilience has always been his most spectacular attribute).

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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Now when Garp punches people he can literally punch people out of there devil fruit form. Like the time Marco tried to free Ace on the platform. Marco was in full Phoenix mode and garp managed to punch him out of it and give him a bruise in the face too.
While Garp certainly is impressive in his old age, not even his CoA can mimic Yami Yami no Mi's ability to suppress Devil Fruit powers. Specifically, while CoA gives you the capacity (assuming sufficient prowess with it, and no other interference (e.g. Akainu's ability to defend against CoA attacks)) to bypass Luffy's rubber properties and affect his real (i.e. made of normal flesh and blood) body, you can't disable, even momentarily, someone's Devil Fruit with it.

The more probable explanation is that Marco by his own choice transformed into his human form after he was knocked back by Garp.

Furthermore, your post imply that the bruise Garp's punch gave Marco should be attributed to Garp's CoA. While there is truth in it, considering CoA can be used to empower one's attacks, the suggestion that one needs CoA to hurt Marco is wrong. Marco's Phoenix fruit gives him the ability to heal; it doesn't migrate damage in any other way (ala logia's intagnability, Luffy's rubber body etc.).
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:42   Link #198
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yep, Marco isn't a logia and can be hurt by a regular punch .. considering that Garp swings around a battleship sized steel ball and is called Garp THE FIST ...
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Old 2013-10-14, 10:25   Link #199
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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A long overdue revival for this thread, I'd say.

Here's some interesting info I came across while researching Ryokugyu (Green Bull Admiral). The following is an excerpt taken from someone else's post on another forum:

Quote:
I thought up all the information i could think of regarding the drawing of Oda and what it might entail:

Spoiler for Possible Actor Inspiration for Ryokugyu:


This drawing was included in volume 70 and depicts Mifune Toshiro, probably the most renown Japanese actor. His collaborations with Kurosawa Akira are his most famous movies, including Rashomon, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo The Hidden Fortress and The Bad Sleep Well, except the Samurai Trilogy. Considering that all the Admirals´appearance and, to a certain extent, their personality is based on famous actors in their most popular role, this drawing is somewhat interesting. It is also peculiar that Oda drew Mifune with horns and now introduced a character named Ryokugyuu (Green Bull).
Another interesting fact is that there is a movie in the Zatoichi series called "Zatoichi meets Yojimbo" in which both Shintaro Katsu (Zatoichi) and Mifune (Yojimbo) play side by side. In the movie, Zatoichi is hired by a rich merchant while Yojimbo is hired by the son of said merchant. Considering that Fujitora and Ryokugyuu were both conscripted by the Marines, it could be a parallel, at least somewhat.
That being said, I won't be surprised if Ryokugyu is based off Mifune Toshiro.

Thoughts?
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