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Old 2010-11-28, 20:11   Link #19141
Kylon99
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You know...
Amakusa DID seem to get along too well with Hachijou and Featherine in EP6. In the very first scenes where he actually encouraged Ange to start turning the pages, I thought that his 'character' was subverted by Hachijou's narrative.

Now I'm thinking maybe it was just Hachijou or whoever writing him in to be 'with' Ange.

(Ok, not like I believe that to begin with... )
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Old 2010-11-28, 20:29   Link #19142
CrystalStarlight95
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Amakusa being Battler? Gee, I haven't heard that before....

Amakusa and Kyrie have the same hair color.....? O_O!
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Old 2010-11-28, 20:36   Link #19143
AuraTwilight
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Battler being Amakusa is a really old theory. I'm surprised you haven't heard it.

But wow, yea, that guy looks like he's Amakusa right down to a T, but it's probably just like an alternate universe double thing, like with Okonogi.
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Old 2010-11-28, 20:40   Link #19144
CrystalStarlight95
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Haha yeah, I usually don't go through forums unless I'm really confused and need answers. So I haven't heard every theory in the book. X3
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Old 2010-11-28, 20:46   Link #19145
AuraTwilight
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That's a shame. You must miss some really crazy and hilarious nonsense, lol.
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:09   Link #19146
CrystalStarlight95
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XD Yep. I just started here but I plan on hanging around more often to find (and maybe even think of my own) crazy theories~

Like I heard of something called...what was is....ShaKanonTrice? .__. What? *brain explodes*

Which brings me to a completely different off-topic question I need to know:
Spoiler for I will ask this as calmly as possible...:


One more thing...

Spoiler for :D:
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:18   Link #19147
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Like I heard of something called...what was is....ShaKanonTrice? .__. What? *brain explodes*
It's the theory that Shannon, Kanon, and Beatrice are all the same person. It's a very controversial idea, but at the very least, it seems Shannon and Beatrice are definitely the same. It's mostly Kanon being the same person as Shannon that's hard to rationalize, but it explains a lot, while creating some new problems.

Quote:
WHAT...IS...BATTLER'S...SIN?! Its so weird! I heard someone mention in red that the sin has nothing to do between Beato and Battler, but then how would it cause Beato to start the murders?! And for that matter, Featherine said herself in EP6 that it couldn't be that bad since Battler was so giddy when he figured it out (when he heard Beato woke up, lol, he was the most happiest out of the whole episode) so what could it be? I know they haven't said it straight out, I shouldn't even be asking this early >_>. But still D:
Here's a commonly accepted idea: Battler promises his love to Shannon, then apparently forgot about it. At some point, Shannon adopted the identity of Beatrice, Battler's ideal woman. Because of this, people die, but this doesn't mean Shannon/Beatrice is a murderer.
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:29   Link #19148
Cao Ni Ma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95 View Post
XD Yep. I just started here but I plan on hanging around more often to find (and maybe even think of my own) crazy theories~

Like I heard of something called...what was is....ShaKanonTrice? .__. What? *brain explodes*

Which brings me to a completely different off-topic question I need to know:
Spoiler for I will ask this as calmly as possible...:


One more thing...

Spoiler for :D:
First one
Spoiler:


Second one

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:43   Link #19149
CainSonozaki
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Originally Posted by Cao Ni Ma View Post
Its uncanny but wouldn't that be like 16 years before the events with Ange? Unless the dude had like a teen age child I just dont see it happening. Probably more RK07 trying to throw us if with info not pertaining to the Umineko mystery.
Also doesnt oknogi mention something along the lines of Amakusa owing him something
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:43   Link #19150
CrystalStarlight95
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[QUOTE=Cao Ni Ma;3366984]First one
Spoiler:
QUOTE]

I guess so....and that insane person must've...I dunno, created an entity of Beatrice, or took the name Beatrice and then started to kill everyone six years later...

But STILL, it's SIX years later! Thats a long time! How could anyone hold a grudge against Battler (I think it's Battler..) over a broken promise made when they were only children? Its..really odd...

Well, Shannon does have a crappy life as furniture...but she seems to like George alot, so... >_<
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:48   Link #19151
AuraTwilight
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Again, it's been implied time and time again throughout the Core Arcs that "Beatrice" is not the murderer. She's someone who martyrs herself.
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:54   Link #19152
CrystalStarlight95
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So you mean someone began killing everyone but called him/herself "Beatrice" while....am I saying this right?

Pardon me for being dumb...
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Old 2010-11-28, 21:56   Link #19153
Cao Ni Ma
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Again, it's been implied time and time again throughout the Core Arcs that "Beatrice" is not the murderer. She's someone who martyrs herself.
Well aware of that, you dont even need to read the core arcs though. Its apparent that in the nature of her game she's hiding who the culprit is by trying to make the detective and the readers think that she's the criminal.

The issue is that the circumstantial evidence do really seem to point at the culprit being Shkanotrice. At least if you try to have one single culprit trough out the games, if there are multiple culprits that depend on the game then yeah, go hog wild.
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Old 2010-11-28, 22:01   Link #19154
CrystalStarlight95
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Quote:
[Well aware of that, you dont even need to read the core arcs though. Its apparent that in the nature of her game she's hiding who the culprit is by trying to make the detective and the readers think that she's the criminal.
OOHH MY GOSH, I see!! But who could she be covering for...?
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Old 2010-11-28, 22:17   Link #19155
Cao Ni Ma
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Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95 View Post
OOHH MY GOSH, I see!! But who could she be covering for...?
Each person will have a different interpretation of the clues and events that followed in the story. So each will have a different answer to that question. She covers for nearly everyone but she does throw some under the bus if needed be only to have a closed room mystery or another event exonerate them (usually by death).

I have to re-read everything once EP7 patch comes out, I have a feeling that WH knows a little bit more that they are letting on regarding future content. But thats another mystery itself.
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Old 2010-11-28, 22:22   Link #19156
AuraTwilight
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It's implied that the first two message bottles were thrown out by Beatrice before the accident actually happened. One theory is that she THOUGHT someone she cared about was going to do something, sent out these message bottles so someone could find out the truth, then set a bomb to go off with plans to shut it off if things go well, but if the killer wasn't caught, then they wouldn't live to get away with it.

A spin might be that she thinks BATTLER might be the possible culprit/victim, and so she put him in the one space no one can ever, ever, ever suspect of wrongdoing/murder: The Detective.
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Old 2010-11-28, 23:14   Link #19157
DaBackpack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao Ni Ma View Post
First one
Spoiler:
I personally think that it is the forgotten promise idea between Battler and Shannon, but that does not mean that the forgotten promise is what causes the deaths.
If I remember correctly, Beatrice in EP4 says that because of Battler's sin, a chain reaction of events leads to the death of everyone on Rokkenjima.

So perhaps Shannon/Yasu said/did something to another person that he/she would not have done if he/she wasn't so upset by the broken promise. It is a chain reaction, but it's more like dumb luck on Battler's part.

Comparative to Higurashi, when
Spoiler for Higurashi:


This could be directly comparable to that: since Battler's sin is off of the gameboard (it happened six years ago) it will never be fixed, and thus the events on Rokkenjima are bound to happen anyway.
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Old 2010-11-28, 23:48   Link #19158
Bluemail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Battler being Amakusa is a really old theory. I'm surprised you haven't heard it.

But wow, yea, that guy looks like he's Amakusa right down to a T, but it's probably just like an alternate universe double thing, like with Okonogi.
Are you sure they're just alternate universe doubles? What if Ryukishi is going for a continuous narrative behind the scenes of the main events of Higurashi and Umineko? You can't really be sure of Amakusa's age from the sprite, though I too think he's quite young.
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Old 2010-11-29, 00:04   Link #19159
Judoh
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Logically If Battler is Kyrie's son and the name Battler belonged to Asumu's son. Then he should in theory be born with a different name that would be revealed to him if he found that out.

Though, if Battler survived anyway Amakusa Juuza should also be an alias.
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Old 2010-11-29, 00:05   Link #19160
DaBackpack
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Actually what I used to think was this (regarding Battler's sin):

What is called "Battler's sin" is something he told Shannon six years before the game began. This can either be "I will return next year on a white horse" or "I prefer busty blondes". Either way, what he told her upset her and created the alternate personality "Beatrice".

However, this is not what caused the murders. George, being in love with Shannon, couldn't stand to see Battler flirting with her.


If you believe George to be the culprit, then

George goes and plots the murders six years later. The failure in his love life, coupled with feelings of frustration from his mother's orders, causes George to become mentally unstable.

Otherwise,

He tells somebody else and this person does something else and SOME STUFF HAPPENS and people die.

Shannon notices George's sadness and blames everything that happened on "Beatrice", the one fantasy personality that she associates with Battler.
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