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Old 2010-12-02, 11:39   Link #41
james0246
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^But you get a special skill if you level up to 99...

Personally, I like the fact that Naruto has known limits on his powers. He isn't a walking talking Perfect Izanagi afterall ...
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Old 2010-12-02, 11:51   Link #42
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
But getting back to the point, alright so he cannot use the Kyuubi full form at the moment so he's settling on using the Chakra Blast Sphere for now. But I don't think its unreasonable to believe he will never achieve the full form as well. There is bound to be some loophole that Kishimoto hasn't made us aware of yet. After all, Naruto is all about surpassing his own limitations so I don't see how this isn't just another hill for him to conquer.
Transforming into the bijuu isn't the goal in itself, it's using the power of the bijuu chakra blast. It's just that normally a jinchuuriki has to be in full-bijuu form to access that type of power. If Naruto can incorporate that power into his Rasengan, then he doesn't really need to fully transform.

Personally, I doubt Naruto ever uses the full form. It'd make him look just like the Kyuubi, which would make him look too horrific. Kishi's setting it up so Naruto can use the full power of the Kyuubi's attack but without having to transform into a monster.
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Old 2010-12-02, 12:10   Link #43
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
The kyuubi is probably the last creature that could be affected by friendship no jutsu...but submission through force isn't Naruto's style, so I'm not so anxious to see it happening, like, ever. I will agree that Naruto is more than capable of taking on anyone and anything right now, more grinding is unnecessary.
-Well, I never meant to imply that he'd force the beasty to do his bidding. I was looking more for the "mutual goal, mutual benefactors" kind of thing. I just find the idea of the boy going full Kyuubi in front of his peers only to surprise them by saying "Sorry to worry ya, dattebayo" and then give a toothy grin like he used to back before he started being serious 85% of the time. Seriously Naruto, you're not Sasuke who has to scowl every damn panel.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Personally, I like the fact that Naruto has known limits on his powers. He isn't a walking talking Perfect Izanagi afterall ...
-Yeah that's all well and good...until Naruto gets his own Rinnengan and rewrites history with a flick of the wrist . Oh come on james, you and I both know he'll become a walking Deus Ex Machina eventually. We might as well enjoy knowing his limits before he becomes a virtual God.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Transforming into the bijuu isn't the goal in itself, it's using the power of the bijuu chakra blast. It's just that normally a jinchuuriki has to be in full-bijuu form to access that type of power. If Naruto can incorporate that power into his Rasengan, then he doesn't really need to fully transform.

Personally, I doubt Naruto ever uses the full form. It'd make him look just like the Kyuubi, which would make him look too horrific. Kishi's setting it up so Naruto can use the full power of the Kyuubi's attack but without having to transform into a monster.
-But, isn't he a monster only if he has malicious intent? I mean, Killer Bee went full Hachibi on us multiple times, and he's hardly horrific. Ok, his ballad-raps may cause you to commit sepuuku, but he's not exactly scary as the Hachibi. Then again, we're probably negatively disposed to Naruto's full Kyuubi form since whenever he went 4-tailed and up, he was far more monsterous than anything else he was trying to kill. But, I can concede to the point; if the goal is to be able to use the Chakra Blast Sphere then I got no real complaints. I just think that Naruto going full Kyuubi would be something to praise as opposed to hate but whatever works I guess.
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Old 2010-12-02, 13:02   Link #44
Kafriel
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Quote:
-But, isn't he a monster only if he has malicious intent?
That's one key part...the kyuubi's defining element is malice (as has been said by many people who sensed/tasted/whatever they did to that chakra), so for Naruto to be a perfect harmonixer to the kyuubi, he would have to be knee-deep in evil. Can't have that for a hero, now can we?
Quote:
He isn't a walking talking Perfect Izanagi afterall
Izanagi's got limits too, even if only by time, unlike a certain someone's spirit artifacts ;P
Quote:
I was looking more for the "mutual goal, mutual benefactors" kind of thing.
That's how it was in the beginning...but with Madara trying to forge the jyubi, you'd think Naruto and the kyuubi have completely opposite goals, no?
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Old 2010-12-02, 13:15   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
That's one key part...the kyuubi's defining element is malice (as has been said by many people who sensed/tasted/whatever they did to that chakra), so for Naruto to be a perfect harmonixer to the kyuubi, he would have to be knee-deep in evil. Can't have that for a hero, now can we?
-No, but the Hachibi himself admitted that until Killer Bee became his host, he was as wild and "evil" as any of the other bijuu. But then again, Killer Bee is one of the people that Danzou named as being able to fully "tame" the bijuu (along with Yagura, Hashirama and Madara), a criteria that Naruto does not fit. However, do you recall what Kushina said about Mito's jinchuuriki status? "It is fully possible for the host to bear the burden if filled with love". As much as that naivete makes my insides churn, I have to admit that Naruto does have a lot of love to go around. Too bad the Kyuubi is a tempermental little tsundere .

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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
That's how it was in the beginning...but with Madara trying to forge the jyubi, you'd think Naruto and the kyuubi have completely opposite goals, no?
-I dunno about that. The Kyuubi never expressed any wish to be free only to be used as a catalyst to forge another beast. Yeah it wants freedom, but at what expense? Does it want to be free from Naruto that badly that it would allow its consciousness to be erased, its power used to fuel another and then be imprisoned once more inside of Madara? I don't think it has much of a choice here.
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Old 2010-12-02, 14:15   Link #46
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-I dunno about that. The Kyuubi never expressed any wish to be free only to be used as a catalyst to forge another beast. Yeah it wants freedom, but at what expense? Does it want to be free from Naruto that badly that it would allow its consciousness to be erased, its power used to fuel another and then be imprisoned once more inside of Madara? I don't think it has much of a choice here.
Those are some good points...I hope Kishi spends some time exploring the kyuubi more.
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Too bad the Kyuubi is a tempermental little tsundere
But I really really really don't want to see it end up like this
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Old 2010-12-02, 14:19   Link #47
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
But, isn't he a monster only if he has malicious intent? I mean, Killer Bee went full Hachibi on us multiple times, and he's hardly horrific. Ok, his ballad-raps may cause you to commit sepuuku, but he's not exactly scary as the Hachibi. Then again, we're probably negatively disposed to Naruto's full Kyuubi form since whenever he went 4-tailed and up, he was far more monsterous than anything else he was trying to kill.
Well Naruto wouldn't have any malicious intent, but he would look malicious and worse, completely inhuman. Fighting in that form would for some readers create an emotional dissonance that would make him look less heroic even if logically they know he's supposed to be good.

Killer Bee is able to get away with it because, 1) he's not particularly heroic even if he is a good guy 2) Like you said, the Hachibi's design not quite as threatening as the Kyuubi.

I guess you compare to not ever seeing Gaara's transformed state after he turned good and was supposed to be a heroic character. Kishi just decided to have him lose the bijuu altogether.
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Old 2010-12-02, 14:47   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Those are some good points...I hope Kishi spends some time exploring the kyuubi more.

But I really really really don't want to see it end up like this
-You and me both. Of all the characters that exist in the manga, the Kyuubi has thus far remained the most consistent. Too bad Kishimoto hasn't done much with him besides explaining who were his "cages" through history.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well Naruto wouldn't have any malicious intent, but he would look malicious and worse, completely inhuman. Fighting in that form would for some readers create an emotional dissonance that would make him look less heroic even if logically they know he's supposed to be good.

Killer Bee is able to get away with it because, 1) he's not particularly heroic even if he is a good guy 2) Like you said, the Hachibi's design not quite as threatening as the Kyuubi.

I guess you compare to not ever seeing Gaara's transformed state after he turned good and was supposed to be a heroic character. Kishi just decided to have him lose the bijuu altogether.
-That so? To be honest, I was always fond of Naruto's demonic states where he'd go on a rampage, blowing [bleep] up for kicks and giggles. It has the same appeal to me as the Hulk does, except Naruto's made better because he ceases to talk after 4 tails are formed. But, even when he did lose his mind, I thought it was meant for the readers to sympathize with the boy. After all, what was it exactly that triggered the 2 instances where he went nuts? 4TK was because of Orochimaru's goading and baiting, while 6-8TK was due to the shock of seeing someone close to him getting stabbed.

-But, I guess I cannot speak for the majority as I am one of those freaks that actually likes Karin for who she is (made even better because she mentally told Sasuke to piss off). Some people just find Naruto going full Kyuubi to be absurd I suppose. I don't understand those people myself, but then again some people wouldn't understand why I like the concept behind card games...ON MOTRCYCLES .
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Old 2010-12-02, 18:43   Link #49
james0246
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Kabuto's inner monolouge is quite interesting. Can't wait to find out what Kabuto meant by "I've Got a Good Feel for it now..." Is he talking about Anko? Or potentially Edo Tensei? Wouldn't it be cool if Kabuto was actually staging the "deaths" of Shin and Sasori, to give the Alliance false hope, or to trick Madara somehow? .
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Old 2010-12-02, 18:49   Link #50
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Lol so Minato is such a sneaky guy. Planned EVERYTHING out for Naruto. Nice.
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Old 2010-12-02, 18:51   Link #51
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Curious if naruto is going to have to eat and vomit out his rasengan or of he can just shoot it out.
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Old 2010-12-02, 18:58   Link #52
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just read the chapter.....

so naruto is leaning yet another version of the rasengan......... sigh
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Old 2010-12-02, 18:59   Link #53
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just read the chapter.....

so naruto is leaning yet another version of the rasengan......... sigh
No. More like this version is the real version. Rasengan is what Minato created without the beast chakra. Everything else is basically it.
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:08   Link #54
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So did Minato fight Bee? No way he could've learned it from the kyuubi. Does Bee know the 4th is Naruto's dad?

So now Naruto will be spamming kamehameha?
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:08   Link #55
Jaiven
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No. More like this version is the real version. Rasengan is what Minato created without the beast chakra. Everything else is basically it.


and then we'll find out that jubi has a similar move thats the ultimate original >_>
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:16   Link #56
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Kabuto's inner monolouge is quite interesting. Can't wait to find out what Kabuto meant by "I've Got a Good Feel for it now..." Is he talking about Anko? Or potentially Edo Tensei? Wouldn't it be cool if Kabuto was actually staging the "deaths" of Shin and Sasori, to give the Alliance false hope, or to trick Madara somehow? .
Anko was Oro's target host in the past, so maybe absorbing her life force is helping him master Oro's powers/abilities more.
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:17   Link #57
Sabaku Kyu
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Heh, Naruto turning into a chibi kyuubi was like a throwback to the first Naruto one-shot chapter.
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:27   Link #58
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-First of all, that chibi-fox form Naruto had was...in a word; adorable. Seriously, it is very close to the one-shot that Kishimoto did years ago. Good to see that he did not forget it after all these years.

-Ok, so the Rasengan is an imitation technique from observing the Tailed Beast Bomb. Well that's dramatically convenient, but whatever a jutsu is a jutsu. If it works, then don't fix it.
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Old 2010-12-02, 19:39   Link #59
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Damn, I was sure that Naruto would use his friendship-no-jutsu on the Kyubi, so they would become like Bee and the 8 tails and then be able to do everything. But it would suck if it were this way, so I guess it's for the best.
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Old 2010-12-02, 20:43   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-First of all, that chibi-fox form Naruto had was...in a word; adorable. Seriously, it is very close to the one-shot that Kishimoto did years ago. Good to see that he did not forget it after all these years.
I completely agree about the chibi-kyuubi, absolutely adorable.

About the resengan, while we, as a forum, are more cynical about recycling old ideas to be all-emcampassing, perfectly-available solution, I personally think that the resengan was initally designed by Kishi to have this relationship with the tailed beast. Remember, Kushina was a tailed beast, maybe he developed the Resengan initally for her. Maybe he told this to Jiraiya, which would be why Jiraiya taught the technique, which as supposed to be a rank-A jutsu known only to a select few, to a complete nobody (at the time). I think that it's also a little too convenient, I want to believe that the planning was initally there.

There is also the chance that Minato also fought against bijuu in the past. He was one of the most feared Shinobi during his tenure. Also, I love the resengan.

Remember that this is my opinion, flaming won't get any of us anywhere.

-K
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