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Old 2010-12-03, 00:48   Link #81
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
It is the same technique with a different dress. There's no denying this. I mean, that's pretty much the whole point of what Bee was saying.

But yeah, tell me again why Naruto limits himself to only 3 or 4 ninjutsus when there are literally thousands out there?
-Maybe, but at least it sounds better on paper when you call it something else. Hey, Wolfenstein was one of the 1st FPS games and Doom soon followed. But Doom was based off of Wolfenstein's design, so shouldn't it be called "Wolfenstein" too (*note: this is only an example and not actual facts about the 2*)? Its the same thing with Katon: Goukakyuu (Uchiha) and Katon: Karyuu Endan (Sandaime). Both are the same in principle and execution, but they still get a different name to them even though both make the user into a Charmander.

-Why work on 20 half-assed jutsu when you can hone your basic 5 and still kick ass with them? Don't you remeber what was said by, I cannot believe I'm actually going to type this, Sasuke way back in Part I? He stated that "an expert with a rock can kill an amateur with a kunai". So while Naruto's opponent's have maybe 20 techniques which they have yet to master, Naruto will be taking down mountains with 3-4 techniques that he not only mastered, but perfected to the point where they surpassed their original design.
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Old 2010-12-03, 01:04   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
It's not that it shows that he's "stupid," it's just that it shows he has a lack of talent. Rather than learn how to do it with two hands he just stays in his comfort zone with the shadow clone, which wastes chakra and is extremely awkward and time-consuming.
Not quite. Bad habits, especially bad habits that require an extensive series of functions (in this case, moving his chakra in an exact pattern through his body, forming and shaping it in a specific pattern (and since it is two chakra pathways being used, the formation is divided accordingly), etc), can be extraordinarily hard to break, especially if you do not consider them to be "bad" (which I do not think Naruto does).

That being said, this isn't an issue of talent (going beyond your "comfort zone" has little to do with talent, and more to do with willpower). If anything, Naruto's solution to the problem shaved off 2 years of training, so it's obvious Naruto is quite talented (in this area/technique).

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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
But yeah, tell me again why Naruto limits himself to only 3 or 4 ninjutsus when there are literally thousands out there?
The same reason Kakashi limits himeslf to a dozen even though he knows a 1000...
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Old 2010-12-03, 01:06   Link #83
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-Maybe, but at least it sounds better on paper when you call it something else. Hey, Wolfenstein was one of the 1st FPS games and Doom soon followed. But Doom was based off of Wolfenstein's design, so shouldn't it be called "Wolfenstein" too (*note: this is only an example and not actual facts about the 2*)? Its the same thing with Katon: Goukakyuu (Uchiha) and Katon: Karyuu Endan (Sandaime). Both are the same in principle and execution, but they still get a different name to them even though both make the user into a Charmander.
An analogy, eh? All right, I can take a crack at that. To me, the tailed beast bomb (whatever it's called) is akin to the new Pepsi logo. Sure it looks a little different on the outside, but it's still the same darn thing and serves the same darn purpose.

Quote:
-Why work on 20 half-assed jutsu when you can hone your basic 5 and still kick ass with them? Don't you remeber what was said by, I cannot believe I'm actually going to type this, Sasuke way back in Part I? He stated that "an expert with a rock can kill an amateur with a kunai". So while Naruto's opponent's have maybe 20 techniques which they have yet to master, Naruto will be taking down mountains with 3-4 techniques that he not only mastered, but perfected to the point where they surpassed their original design.
Because maybe they don't have to be half-assed. Maybe he could actually take the time to master multiple jutsus. Many of which, by the way, wouldn't be nearly as complicated as the A and S rank ninjutsus he already knows. Not to mention knowing a variety of justus, even some of them are half-assed, could give him a possible advantage because he would have different skills that he could employ against different enemies' weaknesses. Also, I find it funny how you said Naruto shouldn't use half-assed techniques when even to this day Naruto is still half-assing the Rasengan.

But hey, maybe you're right. I mean, it's not like Naruto had three years to devote himself to mastering multiple jutsus................

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Not quite. Bad habits, especially bad habits that require an extensive series of functions (in this case, moving his chakra in an exact pattern through his body, forming and shaping it in a specific pattern (and since it is two chakra pathways being used, the formation is divided accordingly), etc), can be extraordinarily hard to break, especially if you do not consider them to be "bad" (which I do not think Naruto does).
Even bad habits can be broken (I have several family members who gave up smoking) and Naruto wasn't even using the Rasengan for very long by the end of part 1. Three years was plenty of time to get it right. And if Naruto has enough will power and talent to do Sage Mode then I think he can do that.

Quote:
That being said, this isn't an issue of talent (going beyond your "comfort zone" has little to do with talent, and more to do with willpower). If anything, Naruto's solution to the problem shaved off 2 years of training, so it's obvious Naruto is quite talented (in this area/technique).
Well, we don't really know for sure. If Naruto never attempted it or if he attempted it and gave up quickly, then it's a lack of willpower. If he tried with all his might to do it two-handed, then it's a lack of talent. Of course, we don't know what he did during the three years of training (apparently nothing).

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The same reason Kakashi limits himeslf to a dozen even though he knows a 1000...
Because Kishi is a terrible writer. There ya go.
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Old 2010-12-03, 01:10   Link #84
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
when even to this day Naruto is still half-assing the Rasengan.
I don't really see it as being "half-assed". It is a complete technique, same power and ability as the original, just with an added step. True, it is technically not as efficient as the original, but the creation of the extra step lead directly to the Oodama Rasengan, Futon: Rasengan and the Futon: RasenShuriken, all techniques impossible without the use of the extra step Naruto created years previous and all techniques infinitely more powerful than the original.
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Old 2010-12-03, 01:29   Link #85
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i don't think that naruto is limiting himself to just a few techniques, it's just that he's focusing on the ones that he's good at. he's no good in genjutsu so that's definitely not an option for him. maybe someday he'll be able to learn some genjutsu but i doubt it would be any time soon. it's kind of like us choosing a certain course or major in college, or choosing a career path. naturally you'd choose the one that you'd be most successful in, the one that you know you can be really good at. naruto isn't multi-talented, he even has a learning disability, but he learns what he can and absorbs it like a sponge. that's why his teachers have continually tried to come up with unconventional ways to teach him, that's just the way he is. but what he does learn he continually improves and refines until he can become an expert.

geniuses like sasuke, kakashi and minato can be taught several moves and techniques simply because they learn more quickly and easily. they can even create their own signature moves without anyone's help. naruto isn't like them at all. he needs a lot of guidance and everything has to be explained to him in a way that he could best understand. but that doesn't mean he's stupid. maybe he lacks imagination, i don't know.
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Old 2010-12-03, 02:42   Link #86
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I say the Ambush Team gets rolled next week. Kishi almost never lets anyone win two in a row. If that was round one as Kankuro said, then they have to lose round two. Even if Kabuto is trolling Madara, he'll probably get serious now. And Deidara won't "die" here so he will escape. Then maybe this will start looking like a real war instead of whatever the hell it is now.

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Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
geniuses like sasuke, kakashi and minato can be taught several moves and techniques simply because they learn more quickly and easily. they can even create their own signature moves without anyone's help. naruto isn't like them at all. he needs a lot of guidance and everything has to be explained to him in a way that he could best understand. but that doesn't mean he's stupid. maybe he lacks imagination, i don't know.
I think it's the other way around. Naruto has plenty of imagination and can be pretty creative. He's just stupid and naive as Kishimoto loves to remind us. He's an idiot savant. That's why all his babysitters have trouble teaching him and have to break everything down in the simplest terms possible. It's like teaching a five year old.

And even the geniuses, despite their ability to learn countless jutsu, usually rely on their specialties. How much ninjutsu has Mr. Over 200 I.Q. Shikamaru shown? Kishimoto brands his characters and wants them to use their signature moves. So therefore it's not shocking at all to see more rasengan for Naruto. Four years ago in 2006 we learned Naruto had wind chakra. After that revelation numerous fans pined for Naruto to learn and use tons of wind jutsu. And he didn't. Then there were cries for him to get a second element to show more jutsu. And he didn't. Now he is back with more rasengan. That's what he is good at.

Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 different kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
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Old 2010-12-03, 03:14   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
I think it's the other way around. Naruto has plenty of imagination and can be pretty creative. He's just stupid and naive as Kishimoto loves to remind us. He's an idiot savant. That's why all his babysitters have trouble teaching him and have to break everything down in the simplest terms possible. It's like teaching a five year old.

And even the geniuses, despite their ability to learn countless jutsu, usually rely on their specialties. How much ninjutsu has Mr. Over 200 I.Q. Shikamaru shown? Kishimoto brands his characters and wants them to use their signature moves. So therefore it's not shocking at all to see more rasengan for Naruto. Four years ago in 2006 we learned Naruto had wind chakra. After that revelation numerous fans pined for Naruto to learn and use tons of wind jutsu. And he didn't. Then there were cries for him to get a second element to show more jutsu. And he didn't. Now he is back with more rasengan. That's what he is good at.

Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 different kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
love the bruce lee quote.

you have a good point. i still don't think naruto is stupid though. he can be a fast learner if taught in a way that he could best understand. he has a learning disability i think. he's adorable that way and people who aren't talented and smart can relate to him. i think that's the reason why kishimoto made him that way. apparently, to be the main character of a manga you can't be super powerful and super brainy at the same time.

naruto may be creative in his own right but he still needed to be taught how to improve his rasengan. most geniuses don't need to be told they just do, that's what kakashi did with his chidori. he further improved it into raikiri. nobody told him to do that, nobody taught him either. neji was never taught the hidden techniques of the hyuuga clan, techniques only taught to the main family. but he learned them anyway. he did it by simply observing, he taught himself. whereas naruto had to get instructions on what to do.

but i agree, in the naruto world everyone has to have their signature moves and they stick to them. i guess it works in much the same way as their signature costumes. most anime/manga are just like that.

Last edited by ronin myael; 2010-12-03 at 04:14.
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Old 2010-12-03, 03:19   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
I say the Ambush Team gets rolled next week. Kishi almost never lets anyone win two in a row. If that was round one as Kankuro said, then they have to lose round two. Even if Kabuto is trolling Madara, he'll probably get serious now. And Deidara won't "die" here so he will escape. Then maybe this will start looking like a real war instead of whatever the hell it is now.


I think it's the other way around. Naruto has plenty of imagination and can be pretty creative. He's just stupid and naive as Kishimoto loves to remind us. He's an idiot savant. That's why all his babysitters have trouble teaching him and have to break everything down in the simplest terms possible. It's like teaching a five year old.

And even the geniuses, despite their ability to learn countless jutsu, usually rely on their specialties. How much ninjutsu has Mr. Over 200 I.Q. Shikamaru shown? Kishimoto brands his characters and wants them to use their signature moves. So therefore it's not shocking at all to see more rasengan for Naruto. Four years ago in 2006 we learned Naruto had wind chakra. After that revelation numerous fans pined for Naruto to learn and use tons of wind jutsu. And he didn't. Then there were cries for him to get a second element to show more jutsu. And he didn't. Now he is back with more rasengan. That's what he is good at.

Bruce Lee said, "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 different kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
I completely forgot that Bruce Lee quote. Awesome. I agree with this so much. Characters are meant to show off their signature techniques and their variations. (Shadow Strangulation Technique and Shadow Sewing were just offshoots of the original Kage Mane)

And if you consider mere number of jutsus, Kakashi has actually showcased more jutsu than Orochimaru did. And he's the guy that wanted to learn all the jutsu in the world.

Kakashi has used and is known to be able to use the following techniques. I'd say that asking for even more would be silly and gratuitous. He's shown plenty more diversity than the average ninja, and the 1000 techniques is clearly just a moniker he's earned through his countless battles.

Spoiler for Techniques:
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Old 2010-12-03, 04:40   Link #89
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-Yup, the Friendship no Jutsu is that powerful. But did you know that its actually a chemical imbalance virus? Its true. While it may not cause any outer, physical harm to the body, the insides are another story. The virus usually enters through the ears or the mouth and proceeds to travel right to heart. There it festers on until it reaches maturity whereupon it causes the person afflicted with the virus do very random, OOC things like preaching love, believing in one's fellow man and even pointless heroic death. Finally when the virus senses its host's demise, it sends out many smaller membranes out to attach themselves to any nearby host body, thus spreading its influence. Next week, we'll look at the destructive retro-virus that scientists have dubbed the "Sassy Uke".

-I do find Naruto noticing that the Chakra Blast Sphere is similar to his Rasengan to be a fun little detail. I mean think about it, this expands his options in battle because he's not going to learn any more jutsu, on-screen at least. So he's got Rasengan, Oodama Rasengan, Fuuton: Rasengan, Rasenshuriken and now, this is another potential addition to his arsenal without including Sage Mode. I can say I'm happy with it, as long as we don't have to see Kage Bunshin helping him form that Blast Sphere.

you forgot Ultimate Giant Ball (Sage) Rasengan
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Old 2010-12-03, 04:50   Link #90
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So did Minato fight Bee? No way he could've learned it from the kyuubi. Does Bee know the 4th is Naruto's dad?
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Originally Posted by xellos2099 View Post
I just read the chinese chapter, Bee said that resengan is a technique that is based upon observation of tail beast canon. It seem like the Minato fought Bee before. My guess is that He saw Bee using the Tail canon and he copy it using normal charka. Which is the reason why Bee said it is fate, a miracle when he heard Naruto indirect learn it from Minato.
Why would Minato have to learn it from Bee? He had a jinchuriki for a wife, and we already know that she taught Minato sealing techniques.
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Old 2010-12-03, 04:55   Link #91
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about Minato observing the tailed beast bomb from Kushina

but that means she went full Kyuubi mode ? why ? how ? I thought she only could gather the chakra like Naruto, but to turn full fox-mode the Kyuubi itself needs to allow it, like Hachibi does

I think it's possible Bee and Minato fought


anyway 2 things :
1) I feel soooo sorry for poor Deidara .. he got stuck with 2 emo's that are happy to disintegrate at the first chance
2) the naruto-centric part in this chapter was actually awesome .. huh
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Old 2010-12-03, 05:08   Link #92
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Kuchina never went full Kyubi she would have died, she had no direct control of Kyubi chakra.
Only a restraining power.

Bee and Minato fought it is clearly shown...
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Old 2010-12-03, 05:49   Link #93
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^Or Minato witnessed Bee fighting someone else and going full mode
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Old 2010-12-03, 07:01   Link #94
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Why i'm not surprised that Naruto will learn a new tech ...... Kyuubi Rasengan
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Old 2010-12-03, 08:00   Link #95
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guys, have you ever thought that perhaps killer bee wasn't the only jinchuuriki to have fully tamed his bijuu? remember that minato lived in a time of war. many jinchuuriki from other villages fought against konoha, perhaps they too had somehow learned to use that attack. they could have gotten into full bijuu mode and wrecked villages in the process. besides, who said that the bijuu bomb can only be used by a jinchuuriki in full bijuu mode? it could be that all bijuu really have that attack on their arsenal with or without the help of a jinchuuriki. bijuu are pure chakra, who says they can't use chakra bombs to attack? perhaps minato got the idea from that.
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Old 2010-12-03, 08:05   Link #96
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Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
Why i'm not surprised that Naruto will learn a new tech ...... Kyuubi Rasengan
I'm more surprised at the fact that the Rasengan didn't turn into a Biiju Bomb all the previous times Naruto used it when using Kyuubi's chakra.

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^Or Minato witnessed Bee fighting someone else and going full mode
That or it could be the other way around and Bee witnessed Minato fighting. Bee was clearly trembling. It could be that Bee knows how powerful Minato was and that either scared or excited him, or both. We've never seen Bee shaking like that, which could mean Bee never really fought anyone who he knew could defeat him with absolute certainty or put him in a tough position either way.
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Old 2010-12-03, 08:19   Link #97
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Sasuke way back in Part I? He stated that "an expert with a rock can kill an amateur with a kunai".
"An expert with a pebble can still beat a novice with a shuriken" and it was black zetsu.

i think that is the correct quote.

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That or it could be the other way around and Bee witnessed Minato fighting. Bee was clearly trembling. It could be that Bee knows how powerful Minato was and that either scared or excited him, or both. We've never seen Bee shaking like that, which could mean Bee never really fought anyone who he knew could defeat him with absolute certainty or put him in a tough position either way.
from the way the manga states or how its translated its made out to look like the 4th seen it done in tailed beast mode and then he developed it.
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Old 2010-12-03, 09:22   Link #98
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"An expert with a pebble can still beat a novice with a shuriken" and it was black zetsu.
-Well slap me upside the head and call me "pants-on-head" retarded. Can't believe I actually thought to give Sasuke of all people some credit...especially credit that he didn't deserve.

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Why would Minato have to learn it from Bee? He had a jinchuriki for a wife, and we already know that she taught Minato sealing techniques.
-Well, Killer Bee did tremble at the mere mention of him so it is possible the 2 encountered each other in battle where Minato displayed the jutsu. Though at this point we can only speculate.
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Old 2010-12-03, 09:23   Link #99
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So little war-time...kinda excited though, what is Kabuto going to do with Anko?
The Naruto-already-knows-chakra blast-becauseitisrasengan!!11! made me wanna try out a chakra blast of my own, puking style...Anyways, chapter was mostly fun, good to know Naruto can't KB his training to many times faster, as well as there being a risk to really die despite his large chakra capacity. Not that he ever will, but at least he's scared, rite!
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Old 2010-12-03, 09:26   Link #100
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my problem with that is why would the 9 Tails want to take all of Naruto's
chakra?. wouldn't that mean that the Fox himself would die?.. of all the things
we've seen in the past, the 9 Tails doesn't want to die, which is why his given
Naruto some of his power before!.. so I think that doesn't make too much
sense to me right now, unless the Fox doesn't have a choice of draining
Naruto's chakra?. that's a different case if so.
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