AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-11-29, 19:55   Link #21
TJR
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Aside from financial issues, the talent pool might be a problem. As far as skilled animators are concerned, there is going to be an immense talent vacuum once the people holding everything together (many of whom are now entering their 50s) retire.

I don't expect the art form to die. However, whether a large scale business can still exist remains in question. For pretty obvious reasons, the industry hasn't been able to attract many newcomers who're serious about sticking around and improving their skills (rather, young animators see the job as a chance to fool around before they pursue a real career or education).
TJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-02, 01:09   Link #22
TigerII
Pilot in Training
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Not like it matters. Most of the Western world will be cut off from the huge volume of anime and manga within a decade, due to treaties such as ACTA. Considering most people have watched translated material and moved further in because of that, when the piracy laws catch up, most people will be stuck with whatever is licensed and horribly translated in their nation.
TigerII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-02, 19:48   Link #23
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Financially: Neutral

Artistically: Negative

As the studios focus more on predictable shows that appeal to a narrow audience, they may be able to survive financially but at the cost of artistic originality. When we get another Bartender, Dennou Coil, Monster, Noein, or Oh! Edo Rocket I might change my mind.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-02, 20:10   Link #24
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
They've been focusing on sameness for the past 15 years, with the occasional spurs of genius. I'd think it's time they start thinking differently.
__________________
cyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-02, 20:33   Link #25
solomon
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
It doesn't matter what choice your pathetic celluloid entertainment industry makes, your planet is doomed DOOOOOOMED!

(oh yea, too much focus on otakuy junk, NOT COOL)
solomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-02, 20:35   Link #26
Shuffleblade
Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sweden
Age: 26
POSITIVE

Lets be serious here, ecchi shows are very very unlikely to take over the Japanese market. For starters most times when you consider making an anime with the mindset of being "safe" and not risk getting a flop the targeted audience is thought through thoroughly. If the same studio made 3 series that was ecchi air under the same time and release DVD & BD and so on then they would compete with each other.

Another point, lets say there are 100 buyer for ecchi and 30 buyers for romance series, if 10 ecchi shows were made and 1 romance then logically the romance series would earn the most dough. Unless one of those Ecchi series were a great hit and all else flops of course

My point is that anime and most kind of entertainment will be spread out to target different audiences... Naturally. This arguement could also be used for "original" series, they are often weird and hard to follow which catter to a specific audience which is not so large. If they would make many such series their profits would plummet, few at the right time is the way.... This is not bound to change, the way economics and sales work. just bite it down.

Regarding CR and such, I want the ep on my harddrive and the subbing quality sucks atm. Therefore I am not using their services as of yet but if they start making money and it makes it possible for them to offer downloads and higher quality subs I believe it is a wonderful thing and I would support them.

@TigerII
I doubt that, since there were laws there has always been lawbreakers. No goverment or law has as of yet been able to enforce complete obedience. Also there will always be more of us, fighting the restrictions on freedom than there will be personal trying to control us. We'll find a way, we have since the start of human society.

@SeijiSensei
"broader" I suppose you mean, anyhow I think I disagree. Right now anime has had a hard time, thus all the ecchi and kind of unoriginal series. Most industries has ups and downs, its sad that your faith in the industry is toppled so easily.
Also if we are talking artistic originality, just because Panty and stocking with garterbelt, Durarara, Rainbow and Bakuman doesn't suit your tastes don't just label them unoriginal 'cause they aren't.

Bottomline, ups and downs, its nothing to get worked up over. The best thing you can do is wait out the storm, the more people that keep supporting them the sooner the storm shall subside.
__________________
Signature removed by Mod
Shuffleblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 08:15   Link #27
Taufiq91
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Skeptically positive.

Think about it. We are having more quality animes this year. K-On!!, while not a great example, is an example of seriously beautiful visual design. JC Staff is on a roll, with Toradora being a huge Jeunetian success. PA Works did some great stuff with Angel Beats. However, the greatest example is Star Driver.

Star Driver is the ultimate example of a good anime production. If advertised properly in the West, it might lead to a new Anime fanbase the same way Akira and Evangelion did, and the industry might gain new fans of animes by the numbers.

But, the question is: Will the anime industry accept change?

Will they take social media seriously like the West did with its films, Tv shows and music? Will the anime industry has its Trent Reznor and lead a social media revolution for the anime industry?

But more importantly: Will the industry allow the rest of the world to be a part of it?

With a fear of lacking animators in the anime industry in the near future, do you think the anime industry would accept bringing foreign animators to join the anime industry?

This is a serious question. Many Western otakus and animators are willing to contribute in helping out the Japanese anime industry. But the Japanese culture are very xenophobic in a "gaijin vs. Japan" sense and that kind of mentality exists within the industry, and thus tend to reject foreigners willing to work in animes.

But once the bubble starts growing, do you think the anime industry would be willing to bring a talented foreign workforce to help the industry in order to survive? Once the bubble starts and the animators start growing less in the workforce, they had no choice but to face the reality. But are they willing to?
__________________
Taufiq91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 14:11   Link #28
mindovermatter
For me the bell tolls
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Roanapur
Send a message via AIM to mindovermatter Send a message via MSN to mindovermatter Send a message via Yahoo to mindovermatter
@taufiq: from my understanding of what the idustry is going through right now, I don't think it's so much of a problem of not having animators...there are lots of Japanese people who currently spend their time filling in cells, etc...who would love to get a leg up in the animation game and actually become someone. But the problem is money...anime costs more to produce than they are getting back from views and sales
__________________

School Rumble 4Ever!
I'm on FB search "jym cl"
mindovermatter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 15:15   Link #29
Olivia_688
Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Very Positive. Animes have their own unique way of expressing an emotion more better than real life series.
__________________
Olivia_688 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 15:18   Link #30
roriconfan
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
Send a message via MSN to roriconfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffleblade View Post
lets say there are 100 buyer for ecchi and 30 buyers for romance series, if 10 ecchi shows were made and 1 romance then logically the romance series would earn the most dough.
How are you so sure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
We are having more quality animes this year.
Compared to when? The 60's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
K-On!!, while not a great example, is an example of seriously beautiful visual design.
Not the first and not the last to hit the streets. Plus, it's moe. NO MORE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
Toradora being a huge Jeunetian success.
Ecchi comedy; we have enough of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
PA Works did some great stuff with Angel Beats.
They did some bad jobs with it too. Like, the plot for aexample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
However, the greatest example is Star Driver.

Star Driver is the ultimate example of a good anime production.
Pf, most people I know and read hate it. Me included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
If advertised properly in the West, it might lead to a new Anime fanbase the same way Akira and Evangelion did, and the industry might gain new fans of animes by the numbers.
Fat chance; Americans want Ben10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
This is a serious question. Many Western otakus and animators are willing to contribute in helping out the Japanese anime industry. But the Japanese culture are very xenophobic in a "gaijin vs. Japan" sense and that kind of mentality exists within the industry, and thus tend to reject foreigners willing to work in animes.
WUT? Did you miss the part where American superheroes turn anime by the dozens right now? And that they all suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindovermatter View Post
@taufiq: from my understanding of what the idustry is going through right now, I don't think it's so much of a problem of not having animators...there are lots of Japanese people who currently spend their time filling in cells, etc...who would love to get a leg up in the animation game and actually become someone. But the problem is money...anime costs more to produce than they are getting back from views and sales
QFT. It's not like there aren't people interested in making good anime. It's just that they are not rewarded for all their hard work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivia_688 View Post
Very Positive. Animes have their own unique way of expressing an emotion more better than real life series.
They have been doing that for the past 50 years. We are talking about if they can keep doing that in the future. An ecchi infested, moe filled, harem stuffed possible future that is.

Last edited by roriconfan; 2010-12-03 at 15:33.
roriconfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 15:31   Link #31
Pocari_Sweat
Basketball > Chickens
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Pocari_Sweat Send a message via MSN to Pocari_Sweat
Short term: Negative.

Global financial crisis hit the world hard, including Japan. Financial crisis = Studios, animators and the companies that support them be less likely to take on risks and will generally stick with what is safe and guaranteed to do well. Unfortunately, this means that for viewers lower number/quality of anime in general.

Long term: Positive.

As with every other industry in the world, including anime, it will survive, adapt and grow. Animation (Western and Eastern) in general has been around for a good half a century so I don't really see it collapsing, anime included.

Only concern I have in the long term is that as I age, my interest in anime (and my other hobbies such as gaming) decreases.
__________________
Pocari_Sweat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 15:47   Link #32
roriconfan
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
Send a message via MSN to roriconfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by acejem View Post
Only concern I have in the long term is that as I age, my interest in anime (and my other hobbies such as gaming) decreases.
Nothing wrong in that. I used to like Scooby Doo as a kid but now I grew over it. It is actually very good to change interests as you age instead of being stuck in the same old routine. Plus, anime also change with time (albeit slow) and have a huge variety in themes for all tastes and ages.
roriconfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 15:52   Link #33
totoum
Gamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to totoum
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post

Ecchi comedy; we have enough of that.
Toradora is ecchi?


Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
They did some bad jobs with it too. Like, the plot for aexample.

PA works had no involvment in angel beat's plot.
__________________
totoum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 16:29   Link #34
Taufiq91
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Toradora is ecchi?


Yeah, what the hell? Toradora is not as ecchi as Mahoromatic, or Sekirei or Girl's High.

The only way for Toradora to be ecchi is to have Haruta as a main character.
__________________
Taufiq91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 19:41   Link #35
Shuffleblade
Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sweden
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
How are you so sure?
Simple math, the truth of it is that most fans can't afford everything they want, if they could the anime industry wouldn't have any trouble and the global economic depression wouldn't exist.

What this means is that each animefan/household maybe buys or in other way supports 1-3 series each season. The 30 fans of romance series would all buy the only series of they favorite genre and spread the rest of the money on other genres they find rather decent.

Thus the romance series would in this example get at least 30 sales from its fanbase. The ecchi series on the other hand 10/100(10 series divided by the amount of fans), if every ecchi was equally good(/bad ) each series would net itself 10 purchases. 30>10, you with me?

Basic economics, if it would go this way in real life is another thing all together no one can "know" the outcome but what we have are these tried and tested economic theories. It is taught and practiced because it is generally correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post

Ecchi comedy; we have enough of that.
You watched the series right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
They did some bad jobs with it too. Like, the plot for aexample.

Pf, most people I know and read hate it. Me included.
Haters gonna hate, perhaps you should work on your attitude, if you don't want anything new but just the old cliched stories of old times then re-watch those series.
Don't bash new series and claim things that are wholly untrue just 'cause it didn't turn out to be another series just like your old favorite one. Sure Toradora is ecchi, maybe if you compare it with your old favorite, perhaps Angel Beats and Star Driver weren't like the series you watched in your good old days. Either move on and learn that new and fresh might actually be good or sink into your hole of eternal bitterness, its up to you.
__________________
Signature removed by Mod
Shuffleblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 20:05   Link #36
roriconfan
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thessaloniki - Greece
Send a message via MSN to roriconfan
Ok, maybe I overeacted by calling Toradora ecchi. But all newer series feel like that to me.

And I don't hate Star Driver for the sake of hating. Both anidb and MAL give it a temp score of 7. Which means it will most likely drop further down to 6 when it finishes.

And it's not like I don't like any recent shows. I loved Tatami Galaxy but look, it has been forgotten by most already for the sake of that ecchi Bakemonogatari.

And speaking in numbers, FMAB is no1 in both sites at the moment but I hear its airing shares were way too small. Way smaller than K-On.
roriconfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 20:28   Link #37
Taufiq91
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Anyways, here's what i really think through a perspective of a PR person like me:

Remember how Shaun of the Dead kickstarted a 21st century "horror comedy is cool" fanbase?

Remember how Judd Apatow revived the R-rated comedy genre in an era dominated by shitty PG-13 comedies?

Remember how Troll 2 suddenly got popular ina post-MST3k world?

Remember how the Korean wave started in the West?

And do you guys see a new revival of electronic music with everyone suddenly getting into Dubstep and Electro House?

And do you know how they get popular? Simple. The answer is:

the fucking internet.

Once you adapt to the Internet, you can get back to popularity. Social Media and Western-based Online advertising is the way to go.

And the anime industry needs to adapt to that as well. And i'm not talking about Crunchyroll or Funimation or anything. I'm talking about pure exposure of anime to every single facet of the internet.

Have Summer Wars promoted in Joblo.

Have High School of the Dead advertised in FHM or Dreadcentral, or any Men's Magazine or Horror Website.

Have Occult Academy reviewed on Dreadcentral, or Toradora! talked about in Collegehumor or something like that.

With that kind of exposure, you can have a new online anime fanbase at the same levels of Shaun of the Dead and Troll 2. I've seen it work with Funimation animes like Sekirei being advertised on Japanator and Sankaku Complex. But if you take it a step further, you can get something that is beyond it.

The anime industry seriously needs a strong online PR presence, and that has to go beyond the otaku. Once you have animes advertised in websites that are not Japan or anime-related, you will see the Internet effect taking shape.

And also, it's also YOUR responsibility! Tell your friends about these animes! Give them DVDs of Toradora to your girlfriend, or High school of the Dead to your frat boy friends this Christmas. When you bring that online PR advertising to the real world, you will see a change to the revenue and sales of the anime industry.
__________________
Taufiq91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 20:50   Link #38
Shuffleblade
Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Sweden
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Ok, maybe I overeacted by calling Toradora ecchi. But all newer series feel like that to me.

And I don't hate Star Driver for the sake of hating. Both anidb and MAL give it a temp score of 7. Which means it will most likely drop further down to 6 when it finishes.

And it's not like I don't like any recent shows. I loved Tatami Galaxy but look, it has been forgotten by most already for the sake of that ecchi Bakemonogatari.

And speaking in numbers, FMAB is no1 in both sites at the moment but I hear its airing shares were way too small. Way smaller than K-On.
In my opinion you are extremely inconsistent, you claim you don't hate star driver for the sake of hating. That sounds all nice and good and while that may be true your argument for not doing so is stating the score for the series. In this case you use the score to prove your point, "Its just not me hating it for the sake of hating, I hate it for good reason look here its score is low so its natural for me to not like it."

After that you go on to write about Tatami Galaxy and rage against the unfair and illogical scoring, how can ecchi Bakemonogatari be more popular than Tatami Galaxy. Here you basically accuse bakemonogatari for casting a larger shadow than Tatami galaxy a series that in your opinion is much better.

So first you use scoring to prove your point, as though scoring is the solid proof of Star Driver being bad and then you go on and argue how unreasonable the ratings are(even though you don't use the word rating or score).

If you can argue that Star Drivers ratings mean it is bad then in all fairness if I would argue the point that since Toradoras ratings are great and in fact better than Tatami Galaxy then it of course has to be superior right?

A little off topic here, I regard Star Driver as good, I'm only watching the anime though and I have a tendency to not judge series until I've seen a fair bit I still have not scored it even though if I would it would probably atm get an 8(and this score coming form the latest 2 eps). Consider the possibility of the series getting higher score later on as well, I firmly believe it will turn into a great series even though I can agree that it has not yet reached that state.

Also here you go again with your "ecchi", since you like to throw out stats and info from large sites here you go:

MAL: Bakemonogatari Genres: Mystery, Romance, Supernatural

AniDB: Bakemonogatari Genres: Contemporary Fantasy, Female Students, Novel, Romance, School Life, Seinen, Sudden Girlfriend Appearance.

Stop using "ecchi" as a term for all those series you for some reason did not like. All newer series might seem the same to you but if you don't know what a genre entails then don't make it a habit to throw the term around as though you know what you are talking about, because you clearly don't.

@Taufiq
I agree with you ^_^ Good points
__________________
Signature removed by Mod
Shuffleblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 21:12   Link #39
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffleblade View Post
Simple math, the truth of it is that most fans can't afford everything they want, if they could the anime industry wouldn't have any trouble and the global economic depression wouldn't exist.
Yeah... the few anime fans I've talked to online who live in Japan have said that they usually buy a few series a year and rent the rest due to a combination of price and lack of storage space. Like western fans who import R2s, they treat them as collector's items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuffleblade View Post
What this means is that each animefan/household maybe buys or in other way supports 1-3 series each season. The 30 fans of romance series would all buy the only series of they favorite genre and spread the rest of the money on other genres they find rather decent.

Thus the romance series would in this example get at least 30 sales from its fanbase. The ecchi series on the other hand 10/100(10 series divided by the amount of fans), if every ecchi was equally good(/bad ) each series would net itself 10 purchases. 30>10, you with me?
Yeah, that's essentially how it works. It's quite common for the most popular show of a season to outshell all the ecchi shows that season combined. There's just a lot of it produced because sales in the ecchi genre tend to be more evenly split among the competitors then in other genres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Ok, maybe I overeacted by calling Toradora ecchi. But all newer series feel like that to me.
You do realize you just handed the people who think you just have a hate-on for current anime all the evidence they need, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And it's not like I don't like any recent shows. I loved Tatami Galaxy but look, it has been forgotten by most already for the sake of that ecchi Bakemonogatari.
While I think Bakemonogatari's ecchi content helped move Blurays, I don't think its runaway popularity can be explained by its ecchi appeal. I can't think of a single ecchi show that has surpassed around 20K per volume sales. Bakemonogatari sold around 80K per volume. Clearly, there's something more going on there.

For the record, I watched and love both shows. However, I loved Bakemonogatari from the first episode. I can't say the same for Tatami Galaxy, which I only came to like after I gave it another chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And speaking in numbers, FMAB is no1 in both sites at the moment but I hear its airing shares were way too small. Way smaller than K-On.
"Airing shares"? If you mean TV ratings, I just took a look through FMAB and K-On!'s ratings during the first six weeks or so of K-On! season two, and FMAB had much higher ratings. As would be expected, since while K-On! is popular by the standards of late night anime, K-On! is a late night show and FMAB is not.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-12-03, 23:41   Link #40
YoungSquire
Epic
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: down Under
Age: 20
i think that there gonna start making anime series' using CGI as soon as it becomes cheaper and easier.
YoungSquire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.