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Old 2010-11-29, 00:56   Link #161
Beri270T3
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Not really when it comes to the Armoured Techs and Engineers since the Engineer class got screwed hard in the sequel. VC1 had it right and those guys were combat engineers while there is no argument about the Techs being the Ordnance Disposal guys. Personally armoured techs should have been an advanced engineer class.

I could agree with the layout otherwise though.

The other significant difference between scouts and shocks is that the shocktroops would have a fair bit more armour.

Shocktroopers- Carbine as mentioned in configuration above.
Engineers- Same or similar carbine, but with Elcan instead of reflex
Medics- Same as engineer or else without optics.
Scouts- Standard issue rifle with attachments varying by individual role.
Mortarer- Equipped with standard rifle and Carl G
Lancer- Depends on AT or Anti Air weapon carried.
Light- Section level weapon
Heavy- Platoon level weapon
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Old 2010-11-30, 23:00   Link #162
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Disagree on the Car Gustav for Mortarers; it's a direct fire recoilless rifle - I don't believe it can be used in the indirect fire role. Perhaps there are single man mortars available?

Then again part of why mortar teams are 3-man teams are because it's a pain in the ass to carry the mortar and ammo - not to mention that mortar ammo is heavy.
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Old 2010-12-02, 01:46   Link #163
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For a modern day remake, I'd have mortarers renamed to grenadiers and armed with grenade launchers featuring a more diverse range of warheads than that of the under-barrel launchers used by scouts.
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Old 2010-12-02, 02:58   Link #164
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For actual mortars there are some small ones like the Hirtenberger and the 2-inch, although I think it's merely the updated variants of the latter that are kicking around.
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Old 2010-12-02, 10:50   Link #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
For a modern day remake, I'd have mortarers renamed to grenadiers and armed with grenade launchers featuring a more diverse range of warheads than that of the under-barrel launchers used by scouts.
Agreed. I ran across this roster of launchers that might come in handy. Note that this list also includes 'antitank grenade launchers' such as the RPG-7 and its ilk, as well as full-on auto-GLs most practically seen as mounted/emplaced weapons.

And since the VC world surely includes a light vehicle analogous to the venerable jeep there is, as noted earlier in a couple of other threads, much potential for fast-attack forces using jeeps and mounted weapons (HMGs, RRs, and so forth). Folks who've read 'Red Storm Rising' have a good idea of how disruptive such units can be to armored forces lacking proper screen support...
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Old 2010-12-02, 12:00   Link #166
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Hmmm. We could use the 40mm revolver launcher used by the USMC; it's a south african design but quite well-liked...
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Old 2010-12-04, 10:53   Link #167
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I think the Mortarer classes are meant to carry anti-personnel launcher type weapons where the Lancer classes are meant to carry anti-armor launchers. So this is where designated grenade launchers like the M79, China Lake, M32, M202 FLASH, etc. For example:

Heavy Mortar: M202 FLASH

Mobile Mortar: M32 MGL

Both of these weapon systems are meant to combat infantry and not really meant for armor like modern day tanks. Also Shocktroopers can also carry SMGs. There is a very good reason why Special Forces like the SAS really respect SMGs like the MP5.
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Old 2010-12-04, 12:05   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neovoid View Post
I think the Mortarer classes are meant to carry anti-personnel launcher type weapons where the Lancer classes are meant to carry anti-armor launchers.
Given how mortars work, I'd gotten the impression that they're intended as 'pocket artillery'.

Quote:
So this is where designated grenade launchers like the M79, China Lake, M32, M202 FLASH, etc. For example:

Heavy Mortar: M202 FLASH

Mobile Mortar: M32 MGL

Both of these weapon systems are meant to combat infantry and not really meant for armor like modern day tanks.
The FLASH is theoretically a dual-role weapon. From the Wikipedia entry:

"As the caliber is shared with the contemporary M72 LAW antitank rocket launcher, it would have been theoretically possible to fire HEAT anti-tank rockets in lieu of the incendiary payload, and the XM191 was in fact capable of this. In the event, no such round was ever developed for the M202."

(the XM191 is this weapon's developmental ancestor, and was tested extensively in Vietnam).
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Old 2010-12-04, 16:23   Link #169
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Another way to look at it is that since they are Militia as opposed to the standing Army, is that they wouldn't have much of the shiny and brand spanking new kit unless a reg unit were pulled from the line and equipment handed over.

Take the specialist and navy favoured MP5 for example, they might not have that compared to more general issue designs in use at the section level of the regular army at one point or another for some 30 odd years until being phased out for intermediate chambered rifles.

Then in rifles and machine guns they may just have the basics which were phased out of general issue. Say instead of the new regular issue M-240 they simply have the base FN MAG. Instead of a fully automatic AR-15 variant with a number of attachments, they just have several variants of the basic FN FAL, M-14 and Sig 510 rifles as examples to equip most members. The rifles might even be updated Gallians or GSRs. While these weapons may have been phased out, that wouldn't mean they still weren't in storage, unless of course the Government sold rifles back to the general population.
The snipers could have older weapons like the Winchester Model 70s that the USMC had, or they could even be modern and modified personally owned civilian market rifles grabbed during a callup if Gallia were invaded.

On mortars I'm at a loss. They may have designed new ammunition for them over the years to prolong service life of the launcher and effectiveness against fortifications, exposed infantry, engineering duties, and anti-armour roles. Then they can be made more realistic by making the weapons crew served as opposed to by one operator. Seeing as it is a lance another possible concept to explain what they are may be the 'spigot mortar.'
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Old 2010-12-04, 17:33   Link #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beri270T3 View Post
Another way to look at it is that since they are Militia as opposed to the standing Army, is that they wouldn't have much of the shiny and brand spanking new kit unless a reg unit were pulled from the line and equipment handed over.
Well, since the supreme authority gives the keys to the armory after a number of well-earned honours, it's safe to say that members of our favorite squad would serve themselves with the newest equipment. That's where the ACR and the SCAR-L come in.

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Originally Posted by Beri270T3 View Post
Then in rifles and machine guns they may just have the basics which were phased out of general issue. Say instead of the new regular issue M-240 they simply have the base FN MAG. Instead of a fully automatic AR-15 variant with a number of attachments, they just have several variants of the basic FN FAL, M-14 and Sig 510 rifles as examples to equip most members. The rifles might even be updated Gallians or GSRs. While these weapons may have been phased out, that wouldn't mean they still weren't in storage, unless of course the Government sold rifles back to the general population.
The snipers could have older weapons like the Winchester Model 70s that the USMC had, or they could even be modern and modified personally owned civilian market rifles grabbed during a callup if Gallia were invaded.
I can buy this idea about machine guns since one type is the "older brother" of the other. About assault rifles, I'm still a little puzzled about why the militia itself would have such phased out equipment since they form the equivalent of the national guard (or the reserves wherever you call it), which usually has access to "normal" equipment (maybe one generation lower). However, I can see the phased out rifles in use by law enforcement units (including the town watch units).

I can't tell for sniper rifles nor mortars/grenade launchers though. Basically though, it wouldn't be that complicated if there was no such gap between the regular army and the militia.
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Old 2010-12-04, 22:42   Link #171
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Gallia has a small population and a whole lot of cash flowing in with their huge Ragnite supply. Their military is a huge part of their culture, going so far as to give every citizen military training. I'd imagine that they'd be willing and able to fully equip their military, Militia included, with their standard equipment.
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Old 2010-12-04, 22:51   Link #172
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
I can buy this idea about machine guns since one type is the "older brother" of the other. About assault rifles, I'm still a little puzzled about why the militia itself would have such phased out equipment since they form the equivalent of the national guard (or the reserves wherever you call it), which usually has access to "normal" equipment (maybe one generation lower). However, I can see the phased out rifles in use by law enforcement units (including the town watch units).
A national guard is more like a sovereign state's army. Take the former German Empire's military forces for example. The individual states be they Kingdoms, principalities, duchies, had their own armies. The Militia may be more like the Home Guard, the Volksturm or the army which wasn't supposed to leave Canada's shores during the Second War.

Experience in the need for armaments in raising an army as soon as possible would have taught the lesson in need of stored weapons in the event of war. The United Kingdom, Imperial Russia, the United States of America, the Dominion of Canada, Imperial and the Nazi regime of Germany faced those situations as examples. So I'm not sure these nations have entirely gotten rid of older arms that they've phased out of general issue. Considering Canada was still issuing Lee-Enfield No. 4s to the Arctic Rangers until recently I know which way I'd bet. I wouldn't be surprised if the FN C1s weren't cleaned of grease and shipped to the A-stan conflict in limited numbers.

As well bureacracy is a good pin to nail down for reasons why the militia, or even the army, might be armed with older weapons. Though of course Gallia could be looked at like Switzerland.
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Old 2010-12-05, 03:11   Link #173
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Given how mortars work, I'd gotten the impression that they're intended as 'pocket artillery'.
That would make more sense because many soldiers often nicknamed the M79 "The platoon leader's artillery."

Since we are talking about weapons here, has anyone noticed that the "machine guns" in VC are in 9mm caliber? Are they suppose to be 9x19mm Parabellum making them SMGs or the intermediate cartridge 9x39mm making them essentially an assault rifle?

Also Gallia uses the 7.92mm rounds for their rifles which I'm guessing is based off of our real world 7.92x57mm used by Germany and other Axis nations. The Empire uses 7.62mm for their rifles which their real world counterpart would be the Soviet 7.62x54mmR seen in such rifles like the Mosin-Nagant and the Dragunov SVD. So what do you think the Federation uses? People say that Federation draws inspiration from NATO. So could their "machine guns" be 9x19mm or maybe even 5.56x45mm? Anyone think their rifle cartridge will be similar to the 7.62x51mm?
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Old 2010-12-05, 13:02   Link #174
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I really don't think they're using any real world cartridge. There's no reason as to why it couldn't be one of the dozens of other 9mm pistol cartridges of varying bullet sizes.

Same with the rifles cartridges. Perhaps a little less so for the 7.92mm calibre as there are relatively few. But in 7.62 it could be anything from a 7.5x55mm GP11 on through to 7.62x63mm.

On the Atlantic Federation, I'll for the heck of it say no. My feeling is that it'll be a .284/7mm calibre weapon. And that could be argued to just about any direction, but i'll stick by and say the cartridges may not be real world and if so I'd throw in with the more obscure ones are that never saw service outside of their nations.
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Old 2010-12-06, 01:37   Link #175
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^ On top of that, it's also a federation - it's possible that they don't have a unified standard and each member state uses its own chamberings.
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Old 2010-12-06, 03:39   Link #176
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Logistically speaking that would be a nightmare.

It'd be no wonder if true how the Empire won so many early victories.
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Old 2010-12-06, 22:01   Link #177
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^ On top of that, it's also a federation - it's possible that they don't have a unified standard and each member state uses its own chamberings.
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Originally Posted by fallschirmjager View Post
Logistically speaking that would be a nightmare.

It'd be no wonder if true how the Empire won so many early victories.
Or just standardized after they federated, so logistical headaches persisted before the standardized kit was widespread.
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Old 2010-12-06, 22:05   Link #178
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Could also be the same as the WW2 Allies; Commonwealth countries used the Lee-Enfield, which used a .303 round, compared to the M1 Garand and M1A1 Carbine, which used different ammo.

Of course, modern NATO had the standardisation agreements (STANAG) to standardise ammo and magazines so that they'd be interchangable, to simplify logistics.
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Old 2010-12-07, 09:23   Link #179
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So is the Federation so suppose to be based off of the WWII Allies or Cold War NATO? Countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Austria, and Yugoslavia weren't part of NATO or the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War.
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Old 2010-12-09, 10:02   Link #180
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Well, as the devs mentioned in the English artbook, while WW2 was an inspiration to the setting, don't read too much into it - there are similarities and influences, but there's no simple correlation between the two.
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