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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 154 42.78%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 113 31.39%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 53 14.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 23 6.39%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 1.94%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.28%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.28%
1 out of 10 : Painful 7 1.94%
Voters: 360. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-09-02, 20:17   Link #221
wingman32x
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That's a pretty interesting take on Minori. I must be "fucking blind" because I didn't pick up on any of that stuff when I watched it over a year ago. Perhaps I should watch it again though, because I'm interested. I must say though, I don't think it's as obvious as say, Kagami's crush on Konata in Lucky Star. In that case it was so blatantly obvious that you just had to pick up on it. I didn't notice Minori like I did Kagami, perhaps it's because I did a semi marathon through ToraDora...
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Old 2010-09-02, 22:00   Link #222
synaesthetic
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I meant the gay stereotypes, dude.

I mean, come on... the bald wig, the Eyepatch of Power, talking about being more like a boy as a child, her sports-crazy attitude, the endless male-character imitations--Minori is pretty damn dyke-ish for a straight chick.

Her love for Taiga wasn't that obvious at first, but it became apparent when Ami ripped her apart during the field trip.

How I came to this conclusion:

Remember that conversation and how Minori reacted to Ami's prodding. Also, factor in Minori's continued rejections of Ryuuji.

Now it's possible that Minori grew to love Ryuuji very close to the end--in fact, I think translation confusion may be responsible for the seeming Minori-Ass Pull "confession," when up to that point she apparently showed no interest in him whatsoever. There's so much I Want My Beloved To Be Happy going on in the show that it's pretty easy to just toss that label on Minori.

Actually, she even says so. But I think she lied when she said that, and I think she exaggerated when she shouted out that she "loved" Ryuuji. Again, I think she was saying these things to prod Taiga into taking action instead of running away from it all.

And the most telling bit of all is after Taiga and Ryuuji leave together--Minori instantly breaks down in front of Ami, and she asks if it's because she lost Ryuuji to Taiga, or (Taiga to Ryuuji, but was interrupted before she could ask)--Minori interrupts with, "I don't even know."

But I think she does know (she just can't come to grips with it for various reasons, described below)--it's obvious to me that Ami knows, because at that point she starts getting a little snippy again.

If you focus on Ami's behavior, you can tell when characters are lying or concealing something around her. She's ridiculously perceptive, bordering on Genre Savvy here. She'll get especially ojou-sama bitchy when she thinks someone's being untrue to themselves--which is pretty ironic considering Ami's own public mask!

Why Minori can't make peace with her sexuality; more specifically, the person she's in love with:

Minori's perceptive enough to see the budding romance between Taiga and Ryuuji long before they themselves see it. Only Ami notices it sooner--and almost every other character just operates off the rumor mill. Kitamura sort-of-accidentally stumbles to the correct conclusion at the very beginning of the show, but at that point, there's only a nascent seed of what might become love between our two leads.

This is a problem for Minori because she's been in love with Taiga for a long time. Remember, they're extremely close and have known each other for a long time. But Minori's not so stupid she doesn't know Taiga is straight--for Christ's sake, she gets stuttery and blushy every time Kitamura shows up until after the fight with Sumire in episode 16.

So Minori sort of resigns herself to suffer in silence because she wants the one person she can't have--because Taiga is not gay and because she notices the attraction between Taiga and Ryuuji. So she does her best to help the two realize their own feelings for each other, but her methods are warped and conflicted, because she still has feelings for Taiga.

Ami doesn't and only really goes after Ryuuji to irritate Taiga--because she can see that Taiga loves Ryuuji, but won't admit it. This pisses her off, so she goes all-out to antagonize the Palmtop Tiger. As the group become closer friends, Ami develops something of what might become romantic feelings for Ryuuji, but she knows he's nuts about Taiga, even if he doesn't know it yet.

Recall Ami's mention of Ryuuji "playing house" and how he should stop it. Other people I've talked to think she was talking about Ryuuji = dad, Minori = mom, Taiga = child, but that's the wrong answer. Ami was talking more about how Ryuuji was coddling Taiga and his own mother. The way I read the whole situation/conversation, Ami wasn't even talking about Minori--there's actually no way she could have been. Minori spends a good two-thirds of the show actively avoiding Ryuuji.

Ami was actually talking about Ryuuji's future--specifically the fact that he's doing too much for Taiga (thus robbing her of her own self-identity) and not allowing his mother to actually, you know, be a mom and sacrifice/provide for her son. Ryuuji, being the dullard that he is in regards to subtlety and doubletalk, did not understand this at all until toward the end.

Seriously, if Ami hadn't been having so much fun fucking with everyone's mind, this show would have ended in half the episodes and with a hell of a lot less drama.

Toradora! is a high-school romantic comedy, but it's also a really interesting look at the behavior of teenagers... and their self-awareness (or lack thereof).
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Old 2010-09-02, 23:06   Link #223
Vexx
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Originally Posted by wingman32x View Post
That's a pretty interesting take on Minori. I must be "fucking blind" because I didn't pick up on any of that stuff when I watched it over a year ago. Perhaps I should watch it again though, because I'm interested. I must say though, I don't think it's as obvious as say, Kagami's crush on Konata in Lucky Star. In that case it was so blatantly obvious that you just had to pick up on it. I didn't notice Minori like I did Kagami, perhaps it's because I did a semi marathon through ToraDora...
Yeah, I think Syn's review is spot on.... the only difference is that, in my analysis, I focused more on each person's career and life goal aspirations. In Japan, those really DO deeply affect any choices made in romance. One reason I like anime is that many things are often left implicit (unlike most prime time western drama where everything gets a large explicit THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON sign).

Syn's post had me grinning a bit because I can visualize some otaku imploding. Good stuff, some great analysis.
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Old 2010-09-03, 08:54   Link #224
BetoJR
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There's also that whole thing about projecting one's experiences unto others, be they fictional characters or real people. I, for one, didn't get the whole girl-love thing (in any more significant level than that of true friendship) and I don't feel particularly inclined to agree with such an assessment, given what the anime staff deigned relevant to show us (not to mention the light novels, in which the character's feelings are somewhat more explicit).
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Old 2010-09-03, 09:22   Link #225
synaesthetic
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Japan is subtle yet blunt when it comes to gay characters. They like to pile on the stereotypes, but rarely do they have a character just come out and admit it point blank (unless it's specifically yaoi or yuri).

I'd respond more in depth, but I'm on my phone right now.

Blame my English prof for my analysis insanity.

Edit: Now on my PC, responding for reals~

What Vexx is saying is a lot of otaku may project their own experiences upon the admittedly ambiguous beehive of issues surrounding Minori--and a lot of those otaku are male and straight, and Minori is cute and a girl. Which explains how they're able to earnestly believe Minori's shouted declaration of love for Ryuuji, despite the fact that there's very little objective evidence to support this fact.

She spent most of the second half of the show avoiding him. This is not something you do with someone you like.

Minori's behavior toward Ryuuji is almost identical to Kitamura's behavior regarding Taiga. They both know the other likes them, but they won't come right out and say, "I'm not interested in you," because they're all friends and nobody wants to hurt anyone's feelings. Taiga found out when Kitamura publicly confessed to Sumire. Ryuuji found out... rather slowly, since he's a considerable dullard when it comes to women.

Minori's lack of interest in Ryuuji as a lover is pretty obvious. Wouldn't you draw the same conclusion from just how fast she shuts him down every time he tries to confess?

I kinda blame Ryuuji for most of the problems here. Minori kept dropping hints, but he just couldn't get them. She even asked, "I wonder if I'm a lesbian?" right in front of him--which, of course, he tried to gloss over/deny for his own ulterior motives (read: he wants to get in her pants).

If these were American kids, I'd blame Minori for being ridiculously vague and obfuscating the issue, rather than just coming out and saying, "Dude, you're a great friend and all, but I'm just not into you like that. I'm sorry."

But that kind of bald-faced admission is like death to Japanese people. They're extremely non-confrontational, masters of passive-aggression and indirect communication (also known as "talking about you behind your back to other people"). To an American viewer, this seems really stupid, but it's something so strongly ingrained into their culture that you really need to consider it before specifically judging anyone.

Minori has lots of issues and I really felt bad for her throughout the entire show. My thought the whole time was basically, "Oh, you poor girl, if only you were American and weren't culturally constrained by a ridiculously complex system of social etiquette that won't allow you to just fucking say what you mean."

If Toradora! happened in a high school in the United States, the show would have lasted eight episodes and there would have been two hundred percent more sex.
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Old 2010-09-03, 14:33   Link #226
BetoJR
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Wink

Like I said before, I just can't really agree with your points as I don't really believe them to be what you think they are. Personal bias and all.

Minorin's avoiding of Ryuuji would be a prime example of your own declaration that japanese people are "extremely non-confrontational, masters of passive-aggression and indirect communication" - it doesn't mean she doesn't like him because she's into Taiga (it could, but I don't think it does. Again, personal bias). Same thing with her "wonder if I'm a lesbian" quip - she's simply the type of person to come up with a "joke" like that, when trying to diffuse a potentially serious conversation.

The speed of her shutting down Ryuuji's attempts to confess could also be attributed to any number of factors: not wanting to hurt him; not knowing her own feelings; being afraid of her own feelings (my pick), etc... Again, the whole perception thing.

Don't get me wrong, you're more than welcome to your own interpretation of stuff, I just do not agree with it.
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Old 2010-09-03, 16:04   Link #227
synaesthetic
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A veritable orgy of Alternate Character Interpretation!

Oh yes, I always get this sort of thing from people who disagree with my analysis, but the cold fact is I don't even really like Minori as a character, so there's not much I get out of wishful-thinking her into a lesbian.

It just seemed like the most logical explanation for her extremely bizarre (even for her) behavior. People do weird-ass shit when they're unsure of their sexuality!

But then again, I could be misinterpreting based on my Western viewpoints and upbringings, when the story was of course written by a Japanese woman. But I touched upon that already; Minori is played in the usual way anime lesbians are played--make it blindingly obvious with subtext-that's-almost-plaintext, but never outright say anything.

Like I said, she's pretty damn dyke-ish for a straight chick.

Edit: Also, not once did Minori ever get blushy/stuttery/etc over Ryuuji. Not once. And it's been shown that in the Toradoraverse, when someone's in love with another character, they get blushy/stuttery/etc over them. Kitamura did it for Sumire, Ryuuji did it for Minori (and later Taiga), Taiga did it for Kitamura (and later Ryuuji). Kihara did it (as well as getting really tsuntsun) over Kitamura as well. Tons of random side characters did it over various other characters.

Minori and Ami did not do it at all. For anyone.

This may mean what Vexx pointed out--that Minori and Ami are more concerned with their careers and futures than with getting some dick. Smart girls!
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Old 2010-09-03, 20:08   Link #228
Vexx
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The thing is, there are multiple interpretations with fairly valid support. Its what makes the series more interesting than average cut'n'paste.
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Old 2010-09-04, 00:04   Link #229
CaptGloval
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Syn, that blushy/stuttery thing, seems to work in the heterosexual attractions, but we don't see Minori being blushy/stuttery with Taiga, who she likes, based on your analysis. So, it doesn't apply in the lesbian attractions?

I like--I'm amused by your analysis, though, even if it invalidates my reading of Minori's romantic inclinations (she likes Ryuuji since freshman year), which played out in the last episode ("I liked Ryuuji, for quite a long time" or something, forget her exact words in her running confession).
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Old 2010-09-27, 16:06   Link #230
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I don't buy into turning homosexual stereotypes into a basis for declaring the sexual proclivity of a character in real life much less in a story. I think Minori's actually bisexual and loves either Taiga or Ryuuji enough to desire them, but this has nothing to do with her being into sports (which is utterly normal when you consider her motivation -- wanting to prove herself as capable as her brother in the very same way he proved himself capable.) From having read and watched this series I conclude there is more of a screwy family life in Minori than she lets on, enough to match Ryuuji's or Taiga's and make them kindred souls in a way.
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Old 2010-10-14, 11:24   Link #231
keroro gunsou
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This anime had many cat fights !!! I didnt dislike such scenes !!!
it is said the punch talk more truth than words do....

Taiga is so cute, the best Tsundere girl ever.
And she finally became honest !!!!
Minorin & Ami are very tsundere girl too....
I love these 3 girls !!!

My favourite lovecoms anime as well as Kannagi !!!
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Old 2010-10-26, 15:56   Link #232
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animation: both 8/10 and 10/10, True some parts(like the time where taiga fought the student council president) where the animation was considered ugly. But in my opinion i liked that kind of rough looking animation, especially during fight scenes.

Sound: 10/10 nothing else to be said

Emotional Involvement: 10/10 of course, you have to be a heartless demon to not feel anything during the series.. or if you already spoiled by seeing the ending first

Voicing: 9/10 Really Good

Moe level: 6/10 meh, i wasent really reved up much since there wearnt much cute things. but some things did make me go . (cough... The melancholy of haruhi-chan suzumiya is a whole different story... heheheheh...)

Enjoyment: 10/10: one of my favorites

Character enjoyment: i really liked the characters . Though Minorins inner personality kind of scared me at first and made me dislike her for a while, since My moe level rose because of her and then seeing her go.. you know.. it just made me go

Overall: 10/10 OWNAGE ANIME
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Old 2010-11-10, 21:56   Link #233
KeitaroNagato
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WOW! Toradora still going strong

Well, been awhile since I've been back. And just like Haruhi, Toradora still going strong in discussions. I started to watch Oreimo on ANN, been a longtime I saw an anime episode, it totally reminded me Toradora for some reason, and so here I'am nice to see you all again.^_^
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Old 2010-12-11, 08:55   Link #234
chachaboru
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i gave it a 9!!
i really like this anime
there's drama, action, romance, and comedy
toradora is so funny but it's also tear jerking!!
i want a season 2, hehe
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Old 2010-12-30, 16:13   Link #235
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It's been a while since I saw this anime but after watching this anime, I alomst was in tears towards the end. It started out slow like most animes, however it picked up quite quickly and I was instantly hooked. However I feel at the start they focused more on comedy and the second half of Toradora focused on the plot . Nonetheless, the comedic antics of Taiga, Ryuuji, Minori, Kitamura and Ami really developed the characters in short space of time they had.
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Old 2010-12-31, 15:44   Link #236
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I enjoyed it. I wish there were more episodes. The SOS mini episodes were a bit over the top though.
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Old 2011-02-06, 15:50   Link #237
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this whole anime series means so much to me. i love toradora with all of my heart, i feel sad everytime i finish it. 10/10
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Old 2011-02-20, 10:26   Link #238
Rag
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Animation Quality: 7
Voice Actors: 7
Script: 7.5
Soundtrack: 8
Editing: ??
Enjoyment: 7.5
Emotional Involvement: 8.5

Average = 7.5

A lot of great emotional moments in this show (snow scene, school scene), but the final one at the school where Ryujii & Minori chase after Taiga touched me.
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Old 2011-03-23, 08:08   Link #239
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10/10. the only bad thing about toradora is when it ends.
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Old 2011-04-19, 01:08   Link #240
recover
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i actually didnt really like this series too much :x my least fav of R.Kug's lolitsundere roles.

taiga was a bit too "tsun" for my tastes. her disappearing act at the end of the series and her reappearance by...smashing ryuuji in the face was hardly cute nor endearing. I just facepalm'ed and thanked myself for finishing the series. Her confession during the ski trip was very nice though and the marriage proposal.

8/10 though, as it i do have to give it props for being well done...
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