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Old 2010-12-12, 07:02   Link #2281
Janifuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
About Shichika and Hitei... it's pretty damn obvious to me that they're going to end up together at some point. There's no way nothing is going to happen between the two of them if they keep traveling together. Don't forget Hitei is very similar to Togame, it wouldn't be that surprising if Shichika eventually fell in love with her.
Actually, it's not obvious. A tremendous part of Shichika's character has always been his love and devotion towards Togame, and I would find it quite odd and unusual if it were ever to be any other way. As I stated already, there's really not a single thing to indicate that his feelings for Togame had changed, even despite her death. On the contrary, his love and devotion only showed to become more prominent after the event. Simply because Hiteihime is joining Shichika during his travel across Japan doesn't mean that anything is going to happen between them, and there's nothing that even remotely suggests the possibility of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's "damn obvious". I like to think that Togame will be the only woman ever for Shichika, and he'll honor those feelings by not getting together with anyone else. He can easily just travel around with Hitei without anything happening between the two.
I fully agree with this.
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Old 2010-12-12, 07:50   Link #2282
Kanon
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I fail to see see how Shichika ending up with Hitei would equal to betraying/changing/forgetting his feelings for Togame. Tons of people lost the "love of their life" tragically, yet still managed to fall in love once more with another person later down the road. That doesn't mean their feelings changed, they simply moved on instead of grieving for the rest of their lives. Which is exactly what Togame wanted for Shichika, by the way. She wished for him to move on and live his own life, he doesn't necessarily have to forget her in order to do that.

I don't believe for a second Hitei and Shichika will keep traveling together without anything ever happening between the two of them. Honestly, I have no problem with Shichika x Hitei. He deserves happiness, and if she can bring it to him, it's all good. Sure, the prospect of Shichika spending the rest of his life alone, loving no one other than Togame, is more romantic, but it's also incredibly sad in my opinion.
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Old 2010-12-12, 08:00   Link #2283
Ashaman
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Gotta agree with Kanon.

Although the idea of Shichika staying devoted to Togame is both romantic and part of his character, its also extremely tradgic and against Togame's final wishes. those same wishes Shichika basically ignored.

I'm saying that if it does happen,it would take a lot of time.

I saw the endng as platonic, but with the potential to develop.

On a side note, ths episode was epic in so many ways I was stunned.
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Old 2010-12-12, 08:06   Link #2284
Cyklops
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Remember in Episode 10, Hiteihime asks Emon to go find out why Shichika flinched when she mentioned the location of the 10th sword that was in the possession of that God-man? What was the reason he flinched?
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Old 2010-12-12, 08:39   Link #2285
Windows X
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Daddy, how did you two fall in love?
.
.
.
We fell for each other during our journey after killing each other's past lover.
.
.
.
That's Kyotoryuu for you
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Old 2010-12-12, 08:45   Link #2286
Nosauz
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Overall I don't get why there is any implications of hiteihime and shichika romance. It seems rather an awkward romance if there were to be any, considering shichika killed hiteihime's admirer/lover, and hiteihime's "hatred" or her need to meddle resulted in the death of Togame. In the end they are both actors in the deaths of people they strongly feel connected to, and that "love" seems a little hard to just sprout from that, although the only inclination that this might be real is the fact that Shichika took Togame's words to heart. If we really think about there really isn't a lot of interaction between hitei hime and Shichika, they are nothing more than acquaintances , which again adds another degree of separation.
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Old 2010-12-12, 10:02   Link #2287
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Overall I don't get why there is any implications of hiteihime and shichika romance.
I'm with you on that. The only reason why i can see anyone would want it to happen is because they think Shichika shouldn't have to live a life by himself, though as we can see from the last scene that he's perfectly fine with that. Sure it's a sad end, though the whole last episode is sad, and personally i'm all for this instead of your typical happy ending. At least thanks to this last episode, Katanagatari will be a series i'll remember for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Unfortunately I was already spoiled on Togame's death, partly because of some idiots spoiling it in the Bakemonogatari forum and partly because of the fact that some genius felt the need to give this thread the 'Tragedy' tag.
Thankfully i wasn't spoiled regarding Togame's death, though i was around when the tragedy tag appeared in this thread, and personally that just made me enjoy the series all the more. Wanting to see just what the hell could happen in the story that would result in such a tag.
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Old 2010-12-12, 11:13   Link #2288
Haak
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^ I wish I had your perspective on things.

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Originally Posted by Windows X View Post
If it weren't for Hitei killing Togame, she would have to kill Shichika.
And here I thought that was just a lie she cooked up so Shichika could survive Entou Jyu (i.e. by not fighting Emonzaemon).

Now that I think about it, it could've still been true anyway.
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Old 2010-12-12, 12:56   Link #2289
Windows X
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During journey, she started to believe she could change anew to have a happy life and forget her stupid goal. But during her last moments, she schemed Shichika to avenge her during first half. When it appears she would fail and admit her lost, she felt relieved that at least Shichika can live on.

However, hearing how Shichika asked things she needs to do, deep down she realized that she's still not letting go of her goal to avenge her father, killing shogunate and Kyotouryuu. That she still couldn't change. She doesn't deserve to beloved by this man. And most of all, she would regret parting him without letting him know all this though it can make him hate her. Despite that she clearly said that out.

So, I don't she lied to Shichika that she planned to kill him. But I love how Shichika's confession saved her from her stupidity and free her burdens. Her last words is unexpectedly long but quite realistic enough judging how it didn't hit her vital spots. Cutting Togame's tearful scenes may be better choice to put her down on stage as strong woman with no regrets.

I understand this is pretty hard and complex ways of narration. Hitei is even easier to read as her words and actions are quite predictable to guess what her heart thinks. But you wouldn't get boring reading or watching Nishin's works again and again. Years later may give you new perspectives and make it even more interesting.

Last edited by Windows X; 2010-12-12 at 13:51.
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Old 2010-12-12, 14:24   Link #2290
BigRed
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Anybody else notice that Shichika used moves to defeat some of the 12 that he used originally? I though it was pretty cool after I went back and watched some of the fights again.

Zettō Kanna: Move he originally tried to break it with but failed.
Sentō Tsurugi: Same move he used to kill Meisai Tsuruga.
Zokutō Yoroi: Same shockwave technique.
Akutō Bita: The same 272 killing move that Nanami used on Shichika in episode 7
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Old 2010-12-12, 14:28   Link #2291
Janifuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I fail to see see how Shichika ending up with Hitei would equal to betraying/changing/forgetting his feelings for Togame. Tons of people lost the "love of their life" tragically, yet still managed to fall in love once more with another person later down the road. That doesn't mean their feelings changed, they simply moved on instead of grieving for the rest of their lives. Which is exactly what Togame wanted for Shichika, by the way. She wished for him to move on and live his own life, he doesn't necessarily have to forget her in order to do that.

I don't believe for a second Hitei and Shichika will keep traveling together without anything ever happening between the two of them. Honestly, I have no problem with Shichika x Hitei. He deserves happiness, and if she can bring it to him, it's all good. Sure, the prospect of Shichika spending the rest of his life alone, loving no one other than Togame, is more romantic, but it's also incredibly sad in my opinion.
While I understand some of your points, and it's true that Shichika's feelings for Togame wont ever change, I still see no reason to believe that Shichika and Hiteihime would eventually develop that kind of a relationship. Yes, Togame wished for Shichika to move on with his life and be happy, but why should that necessarily entail him developing feelings for another peson, and Hiteihime no less? Hiteihime being the person who was essentially responsible for killing the person hes always loved in the first place. Not only that, but Shichika too was responsible for taking the life of the person Hiteihime had confined herself in in exchange. The idea of "we killed each other's important people, so maybe you and I can become an item instead" is just unfathomable to me. One of the things I've always loved about Shichika's character has been his love and devotion to Togame. It's not only among the central points to his character, but was the source of his development and growth all throughout the story. Togame just has too big of an influence on him, and I really do think that's rather beautiful and remarkable.

I myself really don't believe for a moment that Shichika and Hiteihime will eventually develop any kind of romantic relationship, but if you wish to speculate on the idea of it then of course you're entitled to that. Fact remains though that there wasn't a single thing, even towards the very tail end of the story, that would suggest that his devotion towards Togame had changed, nor was there anything to suggest the possibility of him and Hiteihime eventually becoming an item. It would just seem way too awkward, and I don't think most people would be able to stomach the idea of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Overall I don't get why there is any implications of hiteihime and shichika romance. It seems rather an awkward romance if there were to be any, considering shichika killed hiteihime's admirer/lover, and hiteihime's "hatred" or her need to meddle resulted in the death of Togame. In the end they are both actors in the deaths of people they strongly feel connected to, and that "love" seems a little hard to just sprout from that, although the only inclination that this might be real is the fact that Shichika took Togame's words to heart. If we really think about there really isn't a lot of interaction between hitei hime and Shichika, they are nothing more than acquaintances , which again adds another degree of separation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I'm with you on that. The only reason why i can see anyone would want it to happen is because they think Shichika shouldn't have to live a life by himself, though as we can see from the last scene that he's perfectly fine with that. Sure it's a sad end, though the whole last episode is sad, and personally i'm all for this instead of your typical happy ending. At least thanks to this last episode, Katanagatari will be a series i'll remember for a long time.
I completely agree with these two points.
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Old 2010-12-12, 14:39   Link #2292
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windows X View Post
Daddy, how did you two fall in love?
.
.
.
We fell for each other during our journey after killing each other's past lover.
.
.
.
That's Kyotoryuu for you
Awkward. Still makes for a way better story than How I met your mother's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Overall I don't get why there is any implications of hiteihime and shichika romance. It seems rather an awkward romance if there were to be any, considering shichika killed hiteihime's admirer/lover, and hiteihime's "hatred" or her need to meddle resulted in the death of Togame. In the end they are both actors in the deaths of people they strongly feel connected to, and that "love" seems a little hard to just sprout from that, although the only inclination that this might be real is the fact that Shichika took Togame's words to heart. If we really think about there really isn't a lot of interaction between hitei hime and Shichika, they are nothing more than acquaintances , which again adds another degree of separation.
None of them resent the other for what they did. They know they just did what they had to, nothing more. It wasn't personal.

The last scene showed the two of them were growing closer. Hitei started following Shichika of her own volition and he apparently kept pushing her away. However, he acknowledged her this time, and while he didn't formally invite her to accompany him in his travels, he allowed her to. I think their smiling faces at the end say it all: they like being around each other. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll end up together, but the possibility definitely exist.
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Old 2010-12-12, 15:12   Link #2293
Squire James
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I was quite impressed by this final episode... I've noticed that endings tend to be a lot better when the makers of the anime know the series is ending after episode X from the beginning! I've seen too many endings get all fudged up by leaving room for an uncertain sequel or the makers finding out after episode 9 that there won't be an episode 13!

Now, on more specific matters...

Togame's death scene DID stretch out a bit, but perhaps this is for the best. Most combat deaths occur suddenly, allowing no chance for the dying character to express all his/her thoughts. The situation was directly engineered (in-story and out) to allow her that chance.

As for the combat scenes... epic! None of those guys really knew what to do with their weapons, and the protagonist (1) was no longer interested in preserving the weapons and (2) was generally a much stronger weapon than he was a year ago.

Hmm... the aftermath. Well, the princess DID indulge in a lot of deliberate falsehoods in earlier episodes, and I noted that she was nearly always smiling and/or laughing when she declared her hatred of Togame. At the very least she was enjoying the rivalry. I think she followed the protagonist at the end to fend off boredom than anything else.
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Old 2010-12-12, 15:39   Link #2294
shichi-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
Anybody else notice that Shichika used moves to defeat some of the 12 that he used originally? I though it was pretty cool after I went back and watched some of the fights again.

Zettō Kanna: Move he originally tried to break it with but failed.
Sentō Tsurugi: Same move he used to kill Meisai Tsuruga.
Zokutō Yoroi: Same shockwave technique.
Akutō Bita: The same 272 killing move that Nanami used on Shichika in episode 7
I noticed that too, but for Zettou Kanna, it didn't break because during the first episode he used a weaker technique than before, but now he knew how to destroy it.
And for Zokutou, He just had to lift him off the ground lol.
For Bita, I kinda felt that the sword (since it is charged full electrical power) revived the person that many times, kinda like using CPR lol, if you get what I mean. But so much electricity in the person just fried the user to death. (as it "drained" away the users life over time)

I kinda felt like: "Huh, I see now" as Shichika was destroying the swords, and how simple the swords actually are. If Shichika never had to protect the swords or himself, the previous sword owner battles would've had the same outcome of dying in 30 seconds.
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Old 2010-12-12, 15:59   Link #2295
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shichi-chan View Post
I noticed that too, but for Zettou Kanna, it didn't break because during the first episode he used a weaker technique than before, but now he knew how to destroy it.
And for Zokutou, He just had to lift him off the ground lol.
For Bita, I kinda felt that the sword (since it is charged full electrical power) revived the person that many times, kinda like using CPR lol, if you get what I mean. But so much electricity in the person just fried the user to death. (as it "drained" away the users life over time)

I kinda felt like: "Huh, I see now" as Shichika was destroying the swords, and how simple the swords actually are. If Shichika never had to protect the swords or himself, the previous sword owner battles would've had the same outcome of dying in 30 seconds.
Not necessarily. This time around, the users themselves were inferior.
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Old 2010-12-12, 16:09   Link #2296
hai_san
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LOL we get the Death of the Heroine, we get epic fights of the Hero, some mysteries about Emonzaemon fight as first he wanted to use his "ninpo"? but instead he uses Entou Jyo?!, the hero actually wanted to die but all i get from this forum is a shipping war about Togame & Shichika or Shichika will be together with Hitei hime...
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Old 2010-12-12, 16:30   Link #2297
shichi-chan
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Erm, well I suppose so, I mean they haven't had the swords for so long, that they hadn't have much time to hone their skills with it.

@hai san, Well, Not everyone is all into the shipping war lol. I mean I am more interested in the gauntlet and Emonzaemon. And well Emonzaemon like used his Ninpou, with Entou Jyuu.

Speaking of Emonzaemon....RIP EMONZAAAAAAEEEEMMOOOOONNNNN!!!!!
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Old 2010-12-12, 16:59   Link #2298
felix
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Killer-Mode Kyotoryu is awesome! Too bad we won't be seeing more.
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Old 2010-12-12, 17:25   Link #2299
Maccette
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Epic, Simply Epic, I have not been blown away by a series like this in a very long time.
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Old 2010-12-12, 18:24   Link #2300
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REVIEW TIME

Spoiler for wall of text:

Last edited by roriconfan; 2010-12-13 at 04:03.
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