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View Poll Results: Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 1st - rating
Perfect 10 59 44.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 39 29.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 8.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 17 12.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.49%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.75%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.75%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.24%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-09, 10:33   Link #2081
Takamura Mamoru
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This begs the question how exactly the Wolkenritter ranks work. I believe their ranks stem from Old Belka. At least, they shouldn't be TSAB ranks - Assuming the ranks they have aren't measured by magical power, it's a little odd that their best is Signum with S- which is two ranks below Nanoha and Fate.
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Old 2010-12-09, 11:27   Link #2082
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It might be possible that the testing methods disfavor Signum's style - from what we've seen (it's very little, but still) there seems to be a significant number of ranged attack testing involved, and Signum isn't much an expert in those.

Though, I don't think the ratings were given much thought at all in the first place = \
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Old 2010-12-09, 13:41   Link #2083
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agreed about Signum, she's S- and Nanoha/Fate are S+, which is weird, because she obviously can match either of them


Hayate couldn't cast the big spells without help targeting (and possibly unisoning with Rein II) and in the manga admitted she's basically useless in a 1v1 and Erio/Caro could beat her .. she's still the biggest walking nuke in the series though .. well maybe blaster-3 SLB Nanoha can match, but that is cast from HP


Precia did cast a few 'local' spells, I think her control is definitely better then Hayates, but raw power maybe less



I'd like to see an actual SSS one day :O
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:02   Link #2084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
agreed about Signum, she's S- and Nanoha/Fate are S+, which is weird, because she obviously can match either of them
If Hayate is SS and the least competent in 1v1 of the three aces, then it shouldn't be surprising that Signum is ranked a little below Nanoha and Fate, while being able to match them.

Also, it's up to her with which rank exams she wants to take. Perhaps she wanted to rank below them, or something. Who knows.




Quote:
I'd like to see an actual SSS one day :O
Reinforce broke the SSS meter. :3
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:03   Link #2085
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I think SSS is more of a theoretical maximum level. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no SSS mages at all. Reinforce One was probably SS, not SSS. Remember, Nanoha, Fate, and the others, were probably not S rank at the time. More like AAA+.
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:37   Link #2086
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Reinforce was the accumulated magic of both Nanoha and Fate, and however many other hundreds of magical monsters.

There isn't anyone on the Nanoverse shown, that can hold a candle to Rein I.

She could summon STB in mere seconds and had what was probably an endless supply of magic.
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Old 2010-12-09, 14:40   Link #2087
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Reinforce was the accumulated magic of both Nanoha and Fate, and however many other hundreds of magical monsters.

There isn't anyone on the Nanoverse shown, that can hold a candle to Rein I.

She could summon STB in mere seconds and had what was probably an endless supply of magic.
Pretty much, even Unisoned Hayate must go trough chants and invocation while Reinforce I just raises her hand said some words and presto!, but ...there is an official ranking for her?
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Old 2010-12-09, 15:48   Link #2088
Takamura Mamoru
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If Hayate is SS and the least competent in 1v1 of the three aces, then it shouldn't be surprising that Signum is ranked a little below Nanoha and Fate, while being able to match them.
That's what we talked about ITT, Hayate is synthetic SS (supposedly only judged by mana or something), while Nanoha and Fate are Air (or something) S+, which is something you have to take tests for to rise. Remember how Fate fought Chrono so she could earn a higher rank, or how Subaru and Teana did the test in the first episode of StrikerS. In this case, skill actually matters.

And then there's a third one, the Wolkenritter ranks. I wondered how they fit in. Calling them the same as Nanoha and Fate wouldn't be right because it would imply Signum didn't come as far as Nanoha and Fate with her abilities.

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but ...there is an official ranking for her?
Not that I know of, would be cool though. I did make a attribute chart though and, well, made her like this. (Here's the first one, for reference.)

I think it's a good thing that there's no SSS (yet). Even Hayate is "only" synthetic SS, there is no character who has SS as a rank of the type Nanoha and Fate have.

But yes, Reinforce would probably have reached SSS.
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Old 2010-12-09, 16:16   Link #2089
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Signum and Vita have the exact same rank classification that Nanoha and Fate do.

That is, they're listed as 空戦 S+, 空戦 S-, 空戦 AAA+, where 空戦 means something like aerial combat or dogfighting. Agito's also falls under this category. Zest/Lutecia's are unknown.

Hayate, Reinforce II, Yuuno, and Shamal are synthesis (総合).

The forwards all get 陸戦 at the start of StrikerS which is ground combat. Later, Caro's actually changes to synthesis (according to the JP wiki).

tl;dr there is no special Wolkenritter ranking thing and Signum & Vita probably just didn't bother taking the tests (or failed).
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Old 2010-12-09, 16:46   Link #2090
Takamura Mamoru
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However, theirs are "Midchilda Wizard Rank", while the Wolkenritters are "Old Belka Ritter Rank". I can only guess how they are different from each other.

Basing this on the id cards that were scanned, not exactly sure how "canon" they are, though.
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Old 2010-12-09, 17:17   Link #2091
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Hayate, Reinforce II, Yuuno, and Shamal are synthesis
so what exactly does synthesis mean with a group like that ? sucking at offence or in 1v1 ?


I think Signum and Vita are the same as Nanoha & Fate classification-wise .. especially Fate - she is ranged and melee, but her device is melee



Quote:
I did make a attribute chart though and, well, made her like this. (Here's the first one, for reference.
you chose the values yourself ? feels like Fate needs a few more points


also, would Rein1 have max agility ?
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Old 2010-12-09, 17:29   Link #2092
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Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post

also, would Rein1 have max agility ?
Rein is a better tank than Signum, and has more beamspam than Nanoha...Whether she has more agility and speed than Fate...They never showed her doing much movement, since she could just tank everything anyways.
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Old 2010-12-09, 21:23   Link #2093
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Originally Posted by Takamura Mamoru View Post
However, theirs are "Midchilda Wizard Rank", while the Wolkenritters are "Old Belka Ritter Rank". I can only guess how they are different from each other.

Basing this on the id cards that were scanned, not exactly sure how "canon" they are, though.
They're more of a 'generalised combat application' ranking. Even though Mid-childan magic is presumably practiced by 95% of the magic population, ViviD has shown that not all of them do. It doesn't matter if your magic is Belkan, Mid-childan or some obscure magic from some obscure planet, it doesn't change one's ability to measure combat co-efficiency through use of magic.

The only real dividing factor is whether or not a mage can fly or not, which seems to be a very big divide of talent and aptitude. ( Hayate and Arf for example, can never scale the level of aerial dogfighting. )

If the test were strictly 'evaluation of skill based on specific practiced magic style', I have no doubt Signum would be S+ as a 'Old Belkan Knight.'

But the fact is that 'on paper', she and Vita are ranked lower than Nanoha and Fate in 'Air Combat Ranking' which is somewhat reasonable considering Nanoha and Fate's magical arsenal does seem far more prepared in handling any type of potential combat situation with better efficiency.

Not saying that Signum couldn't handle it anyway, but it's like a race track with many different terrain conditions and curves.

Nanoha's multi-purpose super car ( would be like Mach Go Go Go ) would relatively handle all courses with good track time, averaging to a better lap time, while Signum's more brutish powerful car would probably beat Nanoha at all up-hill and mountain roads, but overall lose out in different tracks like any sharp curves or defensive slow driving.
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Old 2010-12-09, 21:37   Link #2094
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Good thing they DIDN'T fight Precia. According to the booklet in the Bluray box, she was rank SS.
Yep, considering nobody could touch her and she was dying too. As we all know, coughing up blood means you're screwed, yet the nobodies got pwned in a few seconds.
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Old 2010-12-09, 23:14   Link #2095
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Reinforce chanted, just like Hayate did.

My theory is that all magic technically needs a chant, but an Intelligent Device can handle the chanting for you.

Also, mage rank levels have nothing to do with your power; they are a series of tests. You pass the test, you earn the rank, plain and simple. Trying to equate a mage's power with a rank will lead you into contradictions every single time.
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Old 2010-12-10, 04:12   Link #2096
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Also, mage rank levels have nothing to do with your power; they are a series of tests. You pass the test, you earn the rank, plain and simple. Trying to equate a mage's power with a rank will lead you into contradictions every single time.
Not exactly. Back in the first show, when Lindy and Chrono were observing the battle between Nanoha and Fate, they said that both girls' power was act least AAA. So power can be measured in ranks.
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Old 2010-12-10, 04:19   Link #2097
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Not exactly. Back in the first show, when Lindy and Chrono were observing the battle between Nanoha and Fate, they said that both girls' power was act least AAA. So power can be measured in ranks.
A rough estimation can always be made through observation of how much power they has and their aptitude at using them. They were evaluated in a combat situation after all. It is just like seeing Hussain Bolt running fast but without having his time officially recorded. People are still able to see skill without officially putting them through the drills.

For example, a 15 years old soccer player with the talent of Pele is seen playing in regular grass fields of amateurs. One won't be able to actually gauge how comparable he is alongside top players without be without official training, practice and play, but someone's exhibition of play, even outside the regular playing fields are more than sufficient to gauge how good someone is.

Nanoha and co. did not go through C, B, A, AA and lower examinations because their overall performance were already judged to be good enough that if they took it, they would clear it without flying colours. Just like how one doesn't take someone young but talented in soccer and ask him to go play in his school club or junior youth team, he'll at the very least be asked to go to the youth nationals or national team directly.
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Last edited by Nightengale; 2010-12-10 at 04:30.
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Old 2010-12-10, 12:01   Link #2098
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Nanoha and co. did not go through C, B, A, AA and lower examinations because their overall performance were already judged to be good enough that if they took it, they would clear it without flying colours. Just like how one doesn't take someone young but talented in soccer and ask him to go play in his school club or junior youth team, he'll at the very least be asked to go to the youth nationals or national team directly.
Agreed, their talent is palpable right from the start(well, Nanoha develops hers a little before meeting the TSAB thanks to Yuuno and Raising Heart xD). also true that Fate and Nanoha superior range over the Belkan Knights can be very probably based on how versatile they are in aerial combat, both have a wide array of spells and variations to attack. While Signum have Laevatein's Schlagenform and Bogenform, it lacks long range on the former and maneuverability/speed on the later ...and Vita, well, fights with a Hammer, so yeah the knights are very strong but they're a lot less flexible on the air than the Aces.
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Old 2010-12-13, 01:20   Link #2099
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So I finally got around to watching the movie. So here are my (random) thoughts.

Spoiler for Everything in spoilers just in case:
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Old 2010-12-13, 01:48   Link #2100
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>>Nanoha tries to steal a kiss X3

Have to admit, that was the perfect opportunity. Vulnerable Fate was vulnerable.

>>HOLY!! You guys probably noticed already, but I'll say it anyway! Loli wolkenritters at the end!

rofl no, you're the first to bring that up. Albeit, I'd be surprised if that was the directors intention...They do look kinda similar.
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