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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 65 49.62%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 28.24%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 10.69%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 6.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.76%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.53%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-13, 13:32   Link #101
Zeroryoko1974
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Kuroneko was amazing. Best neko meido cosplay since Primula. Kirino is such a snatch. Loved it when Minami called Kyousuke Onii-san :lol:
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Old 2010-12-13, 13:46   Link #102
ion475
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Quote:
So, would you prefer it if she was all-tsun all-the-time? Is there something wrong with her going deredere, in your opinion?

Also, dude, you rated it 10/10 yourself.
Mainly I'm just trying to prove my point that "The only development people are waiting for is Kirino to go deredere". Well, other than the single exception that I've learned to ignore anyway...(I'm waiting for his/her reasoning...)

As far as my rating, other than Episode 8 (Just b/c I really hate it), I've not rate an episode lower than 8...

Quote:
What's more, about the reason that Kyousuke ignores her for her childhood. Sure, that's what we got from her, but from Kyousuke he feels that it's Kirino who has been ignoring her so far, which is why he's determined to be a good big brother now. There's no proof that Kirino can't be wrong or misunderstanding something. Not unless we see what really happen by a flashback, or at least from an account from an unrelated yet close third party (like their parents). But no, even after ELEVEN episodes, we still don't have that yet. And as such, at least until I see that, I find it hard to completely sympathize with her. That being said, this ep does greatly improves my sympathy to her, so let's hope they'll continue from there (although just one last ep makes it doubtful that it's enough time to show and properly resolve what happened, I feel we may need to wait until the 4 net episodes for that).
Fact is, after 7 volumes of novel, we don't have the reasoning behind why Kyousuke and Kirino can't seems to stand each other either, what make you think the anime would suddenly throw out a reason...

As far as sympathy goes, well, it's normal that you don't sympathize with her b/c there's not really any reason to...
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Old 2010-12-13, 15:41   Link #103
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion475 View Post

Fact is, after 7 volumes of novel, we don't have the reasoning behind why Kyousuke and Kirino can't seems to stand each other either, what make you think the anime would suddenly throw out a reason...

As far as sympathy goes, well, it's normal that you don't sympathize with her b/c there's not really any reason to...
That doesn't justify anything. That just means the novels are flawed too.
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:02   Link #104
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That doesn't justify anything. That just means the novels are flawed too.
Just because Kirino's character doesn't fit a common, successful formula doesn't make the novel flawed.

It may make you not like it, it may set it apart from other novels, but calling it flawed is like calling a photo artistically drained of color flawed because it does not have accurate colors.

Kirino is awesome, in the way she affects those around her. I, too felt she was going too far in the first half; I'd be angry as hell if someone was like that with me. But, that's her character, and the entertaining interactions between Manami and Kyouske are a direct result of that.

As far as how realistic Kirino's portrayal is, I have seen similar: horrible little brothers who are very mean to their older sisters, both IRL and in other stories. And IRL, there is almost *never* an apology scene, making the one in this episode that much more special.
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:15   Link #105
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Well, this was the best episode of this series yet. I thought once Manami came into the picture, that'd be the perfect time for Kirino to get told off by Kyosuke, but I guess I came later on. I'm glad he was able to get what he was feeling off of his chest to Kirino. It actually should have happened a couple of episodes ago. Even though he explains why he tolerated all her abuse, it still doesn't satisfy me that he takes all of this **** like a doormat =0\.

Oh, and Kuroneko was awesome this episode(as usual), and Kyosuke's mom would have made a better sister (>.>). I was also hoping that he'd be attracted to Saori a little, even if he'd generally only think of her as a good friend, but I guess any future plans for that are pretty much non-existent =0(.
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:17   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Primary Consult View Post
Just because Kirino's character doesn't fit a common, successful formula doesn't make the novel flawed.

It may make you not like it, it may set it apart from other novels, but calling it flawed is like calling a photo artistically drained of color flawed because it does not have accurate colors.

Kirino is awesome, in the way she affects those around her. I, too felt she was going too far in the first half; I'd be angry as hell if someone was like that with me. But, that's her character, and the entertaining interactions between Manami and Kyouske are a direct result of that.

As far as how realistic Kirino's portrayal is, I have seen similar: horrible little brothers who are very mean to their older sisters, both IRL and in other stories. And IRL, there is almost *never* an apology scene.
It's a flaw because then it becomes a contradiction. We are supposed to sympathize with Kyousuke, and the apparent journey in these novels to towards having two siblings reconcile. At the same time we look at Kirino, the other sibling, and we are constantly badgered through the series to sympathize with her.

But here's the problem, her character draws no sympathy IMO. It's simply a contradiction for a series or novel to expect the reader/viewer to sympathize with a simply unsympathetic character.

When we look at episode 11, we see Kirino break way beyond the point of excusable behavior, but then we suddenly transition to a scene where she's apparently apologetic, as if both Kyousuke and the viewer are suddenly able to accept her. The show and/or novel is demanding the viewer/reader to be sympathetic.

I could have swallowed this a lot more if they added an episode or two of Kyousuke actually acting depressed, where we get to see Kirino actually feel bad about what she's done. The problem is we got no such scenes. Out of the blue development justified by exposition in the plot. That makes me want to throw up.

Would it have killed them to push back an episode like episode 10 back to a possible second season to allow a better transition? Would it have killed them in this series to actually give us a character we can root for? There hasn't been one since episode 6!.
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:47   Link #107
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It's a flaw because then it becomes a contradiction. We are supposed to sympathize with Kyousuke, and the apparent journey in these novels to towards having two siblings reconcile. At the same time we look at Kirino, the other sibling, and we are constantly badgered through the series to sympathize with her.

But here's the problem, her character draws no sympathy IMO. It's simply a contradiction for a series or novel to expect the reader/viewer to sympathize with a simply unsympathetic character.

When we look at episode 11, we see Kirino break way beyond the point of excusable behavior, but then we suddenly transition to a scene where she's apparently apologetic, as if both Kyousuke and the viewer are suddenly able to accept her. The show and/or novel is demanding the viewer/reader to be sympathetic.

I could have swallowed this a lot more if they added an episode or two of Kyousuke actually acting depressed, where we get to see Kirino actually feel bad about what she's done. The problem is we got no such scenes. Out of the blue development justified by exposition in the plot. That makes me want to throw up.

Would it have killed them to push back an episode like episode 10 back to a possible second season to allow a better transition? Would it have killed them in this series to actually give us a character we can root for? There hasn't been one since episode 6!.
The problem is that the anime removed two important arcs that developed Kirino and Kyousuke. In the part where Kyousuke followed Kirino around to a love hotel for a novel, they omitted the central point behind the story. Then there's ep 8 of the anime, which was completely different from the novel and was pointless overall because Kirino never found out what Kyousuke did for her.

In the anime, the only times Kirino credits Kyousuke for his help are against their dad, patching up her relationship with Ayase, and for meeting Kuroneko and Saori. In the novels, Kyousuke does much more than that.


Then there's Saori... Kyousuke was supposed to find out about her true identity, and the reason why she made up that otaku disguise in the first place. Kirino already got screwed out of her development in earlier episodes. Saori completely got shafted this episode.
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:52   Link #108
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If only a simple apology could really wash away just how much of a contemptuous bitch she is...

Oh well...Kuroneko Nekomimi Moe~~~
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Old 2010-12-13, 16:53   Link #109
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Despite Kuroneko's blandishments, this episode didn't work for me at all. I've really liked every other episode so far, but this one just didn't seem to gel into a coherent whole.
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Old 2010-12-13, 17:09   Link #110
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Wha-? Saori's as heavy as a guy... yet a supermodel... hmm.....
Where did you ever get the idea that Vagina-chan was a model?
Kirino and Ayase are models, but not her. With Saori's stats, being a model would probably be a problem.

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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I was also hoping that he'd be attracted to Saori a little, even if he'd generally only think of her as a good friend, but I guess any future plans for that are pretty much non-existent =0(.
Saori obviously doesn't want anyone to find her attractive, so she's wearing those unshapely nerd clothes all the time
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Old 2010-12-13, 17:12   Link #111
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My opinion this episode is:
Lol, Surprised, And In Tears.
1.LOL- Lots of laugh this episode,right from the get go, from Kyousuke's dilemma in how to "escape" a tight situation involving his mother, Manami and Kirino's "traps". Kuroneko's doujinshi presentation is the "truth" and I lol'ed on the siblings reaction.

2.Surprised- Kirino's sudden super dere got me. My body wasn't ready damn it.

3.In Tears- Like Kyousuke's reaction I will definitely cry too, cause of all the experiences he had to go through for his sister (tarnishing his own reputation). A simple "Sorry" and "Thanks" satisfies Kyousuke. Damn Kyousuke your a damn BRO! (BROFIST!) And Kuroneko's supporting Kirino and gives handkerchief for her to give it to Kyou is heart-warming. (Kuroneko your totally in mai waifu's list).

Others: 1. We already know it already deviated from the novel so it's no point comparing it to the novel. I'm actually watching it as a separate story from the novel (like a spinoff).
2. I'm actually wary of the "Good ENd". Are they saying that there's a "BAd ENd"? ~thinks of Ayase.
3. Because of this different end, the chance of having season two is very slim. But I am still hoping for a season two now that the OVA will deviate from the anime. And I am hoping it will follow the novel faithfully. Then we can have for season two.
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Old 2010-12-13, 17:12   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I reread my post twice. I never said she hated him. I said her malice was increasing which is defined as:

feeling a need to see others suffer

Which isn't necessarily related to hatred. It could be something as simple as jealously.

People associate Malice with hatred, it's nearly impossible to have one without the other.

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Why did he ignore her? There is no back story! There's no reason we are able to see why a nice guy like Kyousuke would do such a thing in the first place.
you're being too black and white about things. Yes, there's no back story about how or why it happened, the LN's didn't cover it yet either. You should know better that in these types of situations the flashback is a key element where it won't get "discovered" until the end, like Kanon for instance, we don't know what happened with the main guy and girl until towards the end of the series.

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I don't see it this way. I see her as an attention freak, a drama queen. It's not that she's in love with her brother, but she becomes jealous whenever she see Kyosuuke spending time with others, particularly women.

Difference of interpretation.
You shouldn't be in denial. Kirino is displaying classic tsundere behavior when it comes to this.

Quote:
I stated the development, not her blushing came out of left field. Meaning, I saw no reason to believe in the sudden compassion she showed towards her brother.
I do agree that it was a bit disjointed, especially if you don't read the Light Novels. The middle was cut out due to time constraints. But I can tell you that it didn't come out of no where.

Quote:
Precisely why I am frustrated. Irrational characterization.

If they go for the incest route, I'll believe you. But then I'd be disgusted with this anime for other reasons (And no not just because its incest). As said above, difference of interpretation. She's just an attention freak.
[/Quote]

I think your distaste for incest is blinding you towards the series.

Kirino isn't an attention freak in a general sense, she only wants Kyousuke's attention.
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Old 2010-12-13, 17:30   Link #113
frubam
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Originally Posted by Hayataka View Post
I do agree that it was a bit disjointed, especially if you don't read the Light Novels. The middle was cut out due to time constraints. But I can tell you that it didn't come out of no where.
But what good does this do for someone who's only watching the anime? I find the idea of having to dig up information from the source material absurd. A show should present itself so that all necessary elements that are meant to be explained are explained. If not, then the show doesn't do its job of justifying its char's actions.
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Old 2010-12-13, 17:34   Link #114
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
People associate Malice with hatred, it's nearly impossible to have one without the other.
The semantics here aren't important. My point is that Kirino wanted to make Kyousuke suffer because she was jealous of the attention he was giving to his friend Manami.

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
you're being too black and white about things. Yes, there's no back story about how or why it happened, the LN's didn't cover it yet either. You should know better that in these types of situations the flashback is a key element where it won't get "discovered" until the end, like Kanon for instance, we don't know what happened with the main guy and girl until towards the end of the series.
So you're argument is this: the development has yet to arrive in the series because they are clearly saving it for the final moments. OK. I will make sure to bring this up again at the end of this series.

But at this point of the story, no such answers are given. We are at the tail end already. We should already be receiving this information. Also, the LN is no justification for anything in the anime. The anime is supposed to be able to stand up on its own.

(BTW the end of Kanon was very, very badly written into the story).

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
You shouldn't be in denial. Kirino is displaying classic tsundere behavior when it comes to this.
Her behavior is anything but classic "tsundere." It's more psychopathic than anything.

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
I do agree that it was a bit disjointed, especially if you don't read the Light Novels. The middle was cut out due to time constraints. But I can tell you that it didn't come out of no where.
Without a transition, it is out of nowhere. To me it was the equivalent of watching two best friends in the world have fun, then one suddenly pulls out a knife and stabs the other. It's like, wait, wut?

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
I think your distaste for incest is blinding you towards the series.
First of all, I am watching a series Yosuga no Sora at the moment, where there's actually incest in it and I have not complained about that show at all really.

My distaste of this series has nothing to do with me supposedly raging against incest. So I ask you, how so?

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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Kirino isn't an attention freak in a general sense, she only wants Kyousuke's attention.
She also wants the attention of her friends. An example of this is Kirino constantly badgering Kuroneko about the anime Meruru.

Last edited by Reckoner; 2010-12-13 at 18:08.
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Old 2010-12-13, 18:05   Link #115
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Originally Posted by Himeji View Post
Where did you ever get the idea that Vagina-chan was a model?
Kirino and Ayase are models, but not her. With Saori's stats, being a model would probably be a problem.
I'm sorry, what? I may not know two licks about what being a model entails, but from what little I know, I think Saori wouldn't have any problem. First of all, one of the first things that comes to my mind when the word "supermodel" comes up is tall (which is why they have min height requirements). In that, Saori is 180 cm, which is really tall for the average Japanese woman. More than that, from hints of her face as an ojou-sama it seems that she's quite beautiful, and if the her stats of 88-61-89 (what, is that too much waist and hip?) isn't acceptable, I don't even know what the standards are these days. Simply put, she may not be a model, but she can pull it off if she wants to, I think.

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Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Mainly I'm just trying to prove my point that "The only development people are waiting for is Kirino to go deredere". Well, other than the single exception that I've learned to ignore anyway...(I'm waiting for his/her reasoning...)
Well yeah, a lot of people do that - most of the time, the only reason people watches tsunderes is to her deredere in the end. In fact, I think I read somewhere in the To Aru thread that someone watches the thing not for the plot with all its actions, nor the great settings and world buildings with interesting characters, but just to see Misaka Mikoto's dere moments. Different strokes for different folks, I guess . Personally, the one development I really want to see is the story about their past; but this one is good enough, if a bit out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by ion475 View Post
Fact is, after 7 volumes of novel, we don't have the reasoning behind why Kyousuke and Kirino can't seems to stand each other either, what make you think the anime would suddenly throw out a reason...

As far as sympathy goes, well, it's normal that you don't sympathize with her b/c there's not really any reason to...
Well, thank you for this. No, I really mean that sincerely, if only I know that before it will definitely alter my expectation coming in to this thing and perhaps my enjoyment as well.

And about not sympathizing, well, that's the impression I got too. After many debates and discussion with Triple_R and the others in the past episodes, I give up and stop trying to sympathize with her. It works for me, although I have to admit that this episode improves my sympathy for her, if only if could have been shown earlier.

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Originally Posted by rave_master16 View Post
Others: 1. We already know it already deviated from the novel so it's no point comparing it to the novel. I'm actually watching it as a separate story from the novel (like a spinoff).
2. I'm actually wary of the "Good ENd". Are they saying that there's a "BAd ENd"? ~thinks of Ayase.
3. Because of this different end, the chance of having season two is very slim. But I am still hoping for a season two now that the OVA will deviate from the anime. And I am hoping it will follow the novel faithfully. Then we can have for season two.
About it, yeah, your thoughts are pretty much confirmed actually. There's definitely no Bad End, the other one is True End. And like you said, next episode is a bit more of an anime original, whereas the net episodes True End follows much more closer to the LN.

And while I don't go as far as thinking of the anime as a spin-off, I also doesn't expect it to be perfectly faithful. Yes, a perfectly faithful adaptation would be excellent, but sometimes it's hard to adapt something to another form, and sometimes some changes needed to be made. Sometimes that change really change the story from the original source, but as long as it's still a good story, I don't mind the alternate re-telling. Of course, the problem with that is that you have to make sure that it's really good, as it will no doubt be compared to the original source. And if it's good but not as good, it won't be accepted well. Which...may be the case here, I haven't read the LN but the way I see it, while not a complete butchering some details that are changed / left out makes it compare less favorably than the LN.
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Old 2010-12-13, 18:06   Link #116
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The semantics here aren't important. My point is that Kirino wanted to make Kyousuke suffer because she was jealous of the attention he was giving to his friend Manami.
Or Kirino was thinking that Kyousuke would have done something gross (in her terms) with Manami since she came over to their house (people can get alot of strange ideas...) so thats what brought up the word "sex" when she was talking about bringing a boyfriend. So to drive her away, she is trying to display Kyousuke's hidden eroge game and magazines that she gave him.

Quote:
So you're argument is this: the development has yet to arrive in the series because they are clearly saving it for the final moments. OK. I will make sure to bring this up again at the end of this series.

But at this point of the story, no such answers are given. We are at the tail end already. We should already be receiving this information. Also, the LN is no justification for anything in the anime. The anime isn't supposed to be able to stand up on its own.
Oh so the anime is deriving towards an Anime Original then?

Quote:
Her behavior is anything but classic "tsundere." It's more psychopathic than anything.
This is actually true, her terms of a Tsundere is alot harder to decipher then your classic tsundere.

Quote:
Without a transition, it is out of nowhere. To me it was the equivalent of watching two best friends in the world have fun, then one suddenly pulls out a knife and stabs the other. It's like, wait, wut?
I'm scared now

Quote:
First of all, I am watching a series Yosuga no Sora at the moment, where there's actually incest in it and I have not complained about that show at all really.

My distaste of this series has nothing to do with me supposedly raging against incest. So I ask you, how so?
If Reckoner is watching Yosuga no Sora, then he defiantly does not have a distaste for Incest (since its getting to the true incest route)
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Old 2010-12-13, 18:57   Link #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
So you're argument is this: the development has yet to arrive in the series because they are clearly saving it for the final moments. OK. I will make sure to bring this up again at the end of this series.

But at this point of the story, no such answers are given. We are at the tail end already. We should already be receiving this information. Also, the LN is no justification for anything in the anime. The anime is supposed to be able to stand up on its own.
Yea, I think the issue here is that there's only so much you can tease the audience with, and at this point with the rather lame confessions it doesn't seem like there was much underneath the surface to begin with. (Read: low payoff)

Quote:
(BTW the end of Kanon was very, very badly written into the story).
Well, that anime had flashback scenes throughout the series that served as a foreshadowing, though I would find your reaction understandable due to the terrible pacing problems the series had especially at the end. But in Kanon's case it was still possible to figure out what was going on to some degree before you get smacked in the face with it. Ore imo, I'm not nearly as convinced and this is related to the first thing I quoted.
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Old 2010-12-13, 19:17   Link #118
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this ep was absolute win for me, the best ep so far i think

the first half i was just dying laughing: Kirino's example of what she would do if she brought a boy home, the mother-in-law comment, Manami finding his porn collection and the laptop, "all the girls have glasses", also calling him onii-chan was priceless

the second half was great as well: the harem party sign, and the receptionist sneaking peaks, all of them in maid outfits was nice, but Kuroneko stole the show with her ears an tail, her manga was just too hilarious, also calling Kyousuke nii-san was great, didn't expect the party to be to cheer him up and have Kirino apologize, and only she would get her brother an eroge as a present

the new op and ed were nice as well

will Saori's identity be reveled soon, because she's definitely hiding her true self maybe?

so is next week the last ep?
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Old 2010-12-13, 19:26   Link #119
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Spoiler for reply and novel compare:
Spoiler for reply:
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Old 2010-12-13, 19:28   Link #120
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Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
the new op and ed were nice as well
I loved the part where they actually made it look like a game in the opening (before the epic scene made its return )

Quote:
will Saori's identity be reveled soon, because she's definitely hiding her true self maybe?
I'm not quite sure, it will probably not happen in the next episode. They will probably do it if they ever decide to start a season 2.

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so is next week the last ep?
I heard that Ore no Imouto was a 12 episode anime, so yes the next episode is the last.
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